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Been on Test Prop. for TRT for at least 2-3 wks now maybe more and dont feel much yet

showmethecurc

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I know you're asking, "why propionate?". Because I have some bloodwork coming up with a doc, and I might need to stop and it'll leave my system faster.
Also I thought by starting the first few weeks with prop, I would get some benefits quicker?
Currently doing 25mg ED, I havent counted the days but its been atleast 2 weeks injecting this dose and I feel next to nothing. My T when I started was 313ng, here is a link to Pre-Trt bloodwork: http://imgur.com/a/eSzt6

Obviously I feel like shit at that level, no energy, no motivation, no sex drive at all, low confidence. etc. also have severe depression which makes things worse.

I know it hasn't been long, but its prop. and I heard lots of people getting effects from prop within days, some even within one day. I still feel no increase in sex drive, no notable increase in energy, etc.

I will switch to Test E, very soon. I know prop isnt meant for TRT. But its starting to worry me that I feel nothing so far. I had slightly high prolactin, maybe it was related to that? Maybe my body doesn't metabolize Test. or test prop. very well? Or should I just give it more time?
Thanks
 
Prop is fine for trt, you just have to pin more regularly as you are doing.

A quick gander at your labs, your e2 is quite low and prolactin high. Couldnt see a SHBG reading? Im not going to pretend to be an endo, but I think going by your pre's it might take time for e2 to increase and help with your symptoms. Are you taking an AI?

Id be concerned about that prolactin number, too. Especially with the potential of e2 increasing now yoyre on trt.

- - - Updated - - -

Id add, it can take months of tinkering to dial in trt protocols.
 
Prop is fine for trt, you just have to pin more regularly as you are doing.

A quick gander at your labs, your e2 is quite low and prolactin high. Couldnt see a SHBG reading? Im not going to pretend to be an endo, but I think going by your pre's it might take time for e2 to increase and help with your symptoms. Are you taking an AI?

Id be concerned about that prolactin number, too. Especially with the potential of e2 increasing now yoyre on trt.

- - - Updated - - -

Id add, it can take months of tinkering to dial in trt protocols.

For some reason the doctor didn't test SHBG, I asked him to, some doctors are just idiots. He was a GP. I know SHBG is important to test, but what role does it play here for test levels/what does it indicate?
I have aromasin on hand, and the first maybe 3-4 days I started I took some, because I assumed my estro was high... (gained a lot of weigh in the past year, soft/tender nipples constantly, water retention) But the bloodwork came in, and I realized I didn't need it. But I still have a ton on hand.... So how will I know when or If I need the AI? Lump/itchiness in nipples? And sorry for the noob question but why does e2 need to increase to help my symptoms? I thought having low estro was good? I was shocked it was low, because I am extremely depressed and debilitated and in bed all day with a shitty diet and I barely even move, let apart exercise, should that cause it be higher?
Is it possible the prolactin is whats causing me to not feel it? as I know high prolactin can kill sex drive. I feel like I may have had high prolactin for a while, as for like the last 8-9 years, my nipples are always soft, last time I remember them not being soft I was a teen, is that probably from high prolactin?
And should I get caber or some type of prolactin inhibitor?

Appreciate the advice, Thanks
 
I know you're asking, "why propionate?". Because I have some bloodwork coming up with a doc, and I might need to stop and it'll leave my system faster.
Also I thought by starting the first few weeks with prop, I would get some benefits quicker?
Currently doing 25mg ED, I havent counted the days but its been atleast 2 weeks injecting this dose and I feel next to nothing. My T when I started was 313ng, here is a link to Pre-Trt bloodwork: http://imgur.com/a/eSzt6

Obviously I feel like shit at that level, no energy, no motivation, no sex drive at all, low confidence. etc. also have severe depression which makes things worse.

I know it hasn't been long, but its prop. and I heard lots of people getting effects from prop within days, some even within one day. I still feel no increase in sex drive, no notable increase in energy, etc.

I will switch to Test E, very soon. I know prop isnt meant for TRT. But its starting to worry me that I feel nothing so far. I had slightly high prolactin, maybe it was related to that? Maybe my body doesn't metabolize Test. or test prop. very well? Or should I just give it more time?
Thanks

How certain are you about the quality of your gear? There is a lot of underdosed gear sold these days, so you may have underdosed gear that is not working as potently as it should. Also, the problem might be your expectations - you are taking a TRT dosage that should only get your T levels to normal, so there should not be any drastic and impressive changes right out of the start, so you may give it a bit more time, or get blood work done and see if the gear is actually doing anything to you.
 
How certain are you about the quality of your gear? There is a lot of underdosed gear sold these days, so you may have underdosed gear that is not working as potently as it should. Also, the problem might be your expectations - you are taking a TRT dosage that should only get your T levels to normal, so there should not be any drastic and impressive changes right out of the start, so you may give it a bit more time, or get blood work done and see if the gear is actually doing anything to you.

Im supposed to be getting bloodwork in 2-3 weeks, but I don't want my doc to see anything, If I dont wan't it to show up, how long before the test should I stop? maybe 2 weeks? But my starting total T was 313, so at this dose, Im thinking it should atleast double or triple it, I don't expect much, but Im thinking I should atleast see an increase in sex drive, but my sex drive is absolutely zero...I can go months without fapping. Is it possible the prolactin is screwing this up?
Also 90% sure my gear should be good, its from a reliable trusted vendor on reddit SST. Pretty sure he has bloodwork and good reviews, but when I buy the Test E, Ill try another vendor and see if theres any difference.
If I do stop about 2 weeks before my bloodwork, will I be shutdown or have lower test than before? Or is it probably gonna be similar to what it was pre-trt (only been on about 2wks)


Or I could continue and lie to him and say im on a test booster perhaps, but I don't want to screw up my chances of getting TRT, Only reason I started myself is I can't find a reliable doctor.
 
There is a lot more to energy and sex drive than just test levels. There are guys with "low" test who have normal sex drives and no issues at all. I wonder if your symptoms are completely unrelated to low testosterone levels. I think as a bodybuilding community we are guilty of expecting much more out of TRT than it provides for most people. For some people it can be life changing, don't get me wrong. But, for most people it will not be a huge deal.
 
There is a lot more to energy and sex drive than just test levels. There are guys with "low" test who have normal sex drives and no issues at all. I wonder if your symptoms are completely unrelated to low testosterone levels. I think as a bodybuilding community we are guilty of expecting much more out of TRT than it provides for most people. For some people it can be life changing, don't get me wrong. But, for most people it will not be a huge deal.

Depression definitely is responsible for a lot of my physical problems, and they tend to overlap with low T symptoms. But I definitely think low t is playing a role in the no sex drive/no energy etc. In 2012 my t level was 679 and I felt great prior to that, my sex drive used to be insane. in 2015 it was as low as 108ng, last I tested it was 313ng, I am 26, avg. test level for my age is about 750, but I don't get morning wood, and I can barely get hard at all, and I am very weak, I feel like an 80 yr old. Depression may in fact be responsible for most of my symptoms, but I know for sure Low T has to be playing a role.... If not, im hopeless. As my depression has been treatment resistant, I did notice a patern, as my depression got worse, my T consistenly got lower. I had slightly high prolactin, maybe thats killing my sex drive? I dont know, but it would really suck if I get nothing out of TRT
 
1. like mason said there is more to life than just test levels. lots of guys are on TRT and still live shitty ass lifestyles

2. you can run your own bloodwork NOW and test your sources gear to know if its legit or not. see my signature on how to get bloodwork on your own WITHOUT a doctor
 
Depression definitely is responsible for a lot of my physical problems, and they tend to overlap with low T symptoms. But I definitely think low t is playing a role in the no sex drive/no energy etc. In 2012 my t level was 679 and I felt great prior to that, my sex drive used to be insane. in 2015 it was as low as 108ng, last I tested it was 313ng, I am 26, avg. test level for my age is about 750, but I don't get morning wood, and I can barely get hard at all, and I am very weak, I feel like an 80 yr old. Depression may in fact be responsible for most of my symptoms, but I know for sure Low T has to be playing a role.... If not, im hopeless. As my depression has been treatment resistant, I did notice a patern, as my depression got worse, my T consistenly got lower. I had slightly high prolactin, maybe thats killing my sex drive? I dont know, but it would really suck if I get nothing out of TRT

Have you ever gotten your thyroid checked? People always talk about testosterone but your thyroid levels are just as important as testosterone levels in terms of energy and libido levels.

Make sure to get T3, T4 and TSH tested. I personally think your problem is thyroid related.

If you do decide to get on TRT, make sure to go to a sperm bank and have a sample frozen prior to get getting on TRT. Once you are on TRT, your risk for infertility sky rockets. You might not want kids now but you most likely will later on in life.
 
OP, low e2 is not "good". Just as high e2 is not "good". I suspect your e2 is too low, going by your bloods and symptoms. Plus, prolactun is high.

Youre prebloods indicate hormonal imbalance.

Seems to me like you need to correct not just your low test, but low e2 and high prolactin. Youre currently all over the place.
 
Just noticed that your lh and fsh are barely in range.

If you hadnt cycled recently, looks like you could be secondary (hypogonadism).
 
Have you ever gotten your thyroid checked? People always talk about testosterone but your thyroid levels are just as important as testosterone levels in terms of energy and libido levels.

Make sure to get T3, T4 and TSH tested. I personally think your problem is thyroid related.

If you do decide to get on TRT, make sure to go to a sperm bank and have a sample frozen prior to get getting on TRT. Once you are on TRT, your risk for infertility sky rockets. You might not want kids now but you most likely will later on in life.

You may be right with this, I have suspected I have thyroid problems, as I am ALWAYS sweating and always hot, even under the AC sometimes, but then again anxiety can trigger it as well. But also put on a lot of weight and haven't been able to shred a pound. My TSH in on the bloodwork I posted in the op. Its 1.140. I asked my doc to test t3 and t4, and he said its not necessary to test them if TSH comes out normal... which im pretty sure is BS? Dumbass dr's these days I swear, thats why I prefer to self treat, you can learn more from AAS users online about endocrinology than you can from doctors
 
OP, low e2 is not "good". Just as high e2 is not "good". I suspect your e2 is too low, going by your bloods and symptoms. Plus, prolactun is high.

Youre prebloods indicate hormonal imbalance.

Seems to me like you need to correct not just your low test, but low e2 and high prolactin. Youre currently all over the place.

I know e2 has to be not too low and not too high. But mine was in range, do you think 19.6 is still too low? And like I said I screwed up and ran asin for a few days over 2 weeks ago, so I don't know what I did to it. I actually have some estradiol pills laying around.... never thought id use them, but probably not a good idea? Shouldn't aromatization from the TRT at that dose correct the e2 on its own? Sorry if thats a noob question, im willing to do anything to fix this so I can try popping an e2 pill and see how I feel if necessary.
Also with the prolactin I've been getting mixed input on whether or not I need a blocker. Should I get some caber or prami?? Some say yes, some say no...and I dont want to waste money if I don't need it. And is TRT likely to decrease or increase prolactin? Anyway I can 'feel' if the prolactin is getting higher or lower?
 
Just noticed that your lh and fsh are barely in range.

If you hadnt cycled recently, looks like you could be secondary (hypogonadism).

never ran a cycle, except one time, ten years ago, when I was very young and stupid. I did recover from it as in 2012 my test was at 679, but that's irrelevant anyways I guess.
I do not work out and have not/nor been able to for years, I am debilitated and immobilized from my conditions. First time running TRT, and its only been a bit over 2weeks. Secondary, meaning its from the brain/pituitary? I have very bad sleep apnea/insomnia/nightmares-waking up constantly, which is one of the biggest factors I am guessing, I stay up for 2-3 days at a time sometimes, and I get a 'second wind' if I let the sleepiness pass, that gives me energy and makes me kinda manic. So I know this is very damaging to Test, also stress/cortisol related to the depression. Also possible antidepressant use and kratom use. Hard to pinpoint it. I've been trying to get an endo, but it is really hard finding one accepting patients with medicaid. I luckily got in with a urologist very soon, I know they are different specialties, but when it comes to TRT, is one particularly 'better' or more knowledgeable?

and would protocol be different for treating me because of the low lh and fsh? Should I try HCG or maybe hMG alone? with the test?
Thanks for any advice
 
Im a bit unclear on exactly what is going on here man.

Are you working on fixing your issues with your doc? As in, does he know that you are using prop since yoyr lat bloods?

Your answer to this is crucial to how you should proceed.
 
Im a bit unclear on exactly what is going on here man.

Are you working on fixing your issues with your doc? As in, does he know that you are using prop since yoyr lat bloods?

Your answer to this is crucial to how you should proceed.

Ok so, (new) GP did my bloods(upon my request), also I had to tell him to Test LH/FSH and prolactin, as he wasn't going to. After the results come back he says my test is only slightly out of range (yea right, 313ng and im 26) and that my bioavailable test looked fine. And didnt really say anything about the LH/FSH, and basically refused to put me on TRT. So I already had the prop. on hand, because I knew this might happen, and started my own TRT, which is probably cheaper and more convenient anyways. I am still going to pursue finding an endocrinologist or urologist, but I don't have much hope, with my medicaid and with labcorp lowering the range to 264ng(what a joke).

So trying to figure out what I need to adjust here
 
So youre pretty much on your own?

Starting trt, you want to try and keep all variables as simple and consistent as possible. It can take up to 8 weeks, yes EIGHT weeks, for things to start to stabilise. That is, for peaks/troughs to establish a pattern, aromatisation to settle, etc etc.

So dont go throwing sh1t in willy nilly without REALLY good reason. Itll just complicate things and you wont know what is doing what.

If I were you, Id consider starting fresh. Source some legit cyp or enanthate and pin 75mg every 3.5 days. So, every Sunday morning and Wednesday night for example. Dont use an AI.

Or, you could try a clomid restart. Look up John Crisler, or Justin Saya, for ideas on protocols. Basically, itd entail a bit of a stint using clomid and tapering off. Failing that, well youd be looking at trt anyway.
 
So youre pretty much on your own?

Starting trt, you want to try and keep all variables as simple and consistent as possible. It can take up to 8 weeks, yes EIGHT weeks, for things to start to stabilise. That is, for peaks/troughs to establish a pattern, aromatisation to settle, etc etc.

So dont go throwing sh1t in willy nilly without REALLY good reason. Itll just complicate things and you wont know what is doing what.

If I were you, Id consider starting fresh. Source some legit cyp or enanthate and pin 75mg every 3.5 days. So, every Sunday morning and Wednesday night for example. Dont use an AI.

Or, you could try a clomid restart. Look up John Crisler, or Justin Saya, for ideas on protocols. Basically, itd entail a bit of a stint using clomid and tapering off. Failing that, well youd be looking at trt anyway.
definitely getting the cyp or E real soon. And I know it can take weeks, but isn't that for the longer esters? The only reason im kinda concerned at its prop. and I thought it takes effect much faster?
I figured I don't need an AI, but I keep getting mixed opinions, but with my e2 pretty low, Obviously don't need it (yet). About the clomid restart, since my estro is kinda low, is it possible the clomid would crash it? I have heard good things about clomid hrt, but I think Im just gonna go for the real deal, as id like to get the benefits of TRT, and don't wana waste any more time suffering like this.
Yes on my own for now. Another reason I got prop. is in case I find a doctor, I can stop and have it leave my system quickly if they need another blood test. I found a urologist, but I dont have much hope with these Dr's that take medicaid. govt. run dr's/hospitals in my state are shit, and they are the only ones who accept medicaid. I do hope they will go off of my bloodwork from GP and not ask for another test as its only a bit over 2 weeks old. And with labcorp changing the range to start at 264ng and me being 26 I don't have much hope they'll help. So I had to prepare for the worst. I'm probably gonna be on my own, but we'll see how this urologist visit goes
 
Youre in your 20s, so trt shouldnt be something you take lightly. Itll be the rest of your life. Notva decision to take lightly.

If your condition is genuinely secondary hypogonadism, I suspect many endos would try you on clomid first. Its a much better prospect than injecting twice a week.

I feel you have alot of research to do. I recommend loking into John Crisler and Justin Saya clomid/trt protocols. Those guys are about the best "internet active" specialists you could hope to find.

The reason trt protocols can take months to dial in has little to do with esters, but your body adjusting and establishing a new homeostasis. This takes time. For some it can happen quick, for many patience is required.

Its likely you will need some sort of AI dose during trt. But you have to be careful here. Trt is not like a blast where you have a much larger margin of error. Some guys dont need an AI at all, some a small dose once per week, most some sort of dose twice.

AI dose will depend on how large your trt dose is and how your body metabolises the injections and so on. This is why 2 inj per week can be better than one (if using cyp/e); more frequent and smaller injections generate less of a plasma spike and so less aromatisation.

Again, Id recommend you research the fuk out of this. Its in your own best intrerest that you do so.
 
Youre in your 20s, so trt shouldnt be something you take lightly. Itll be the rest of your life. Notva decision to take lightly.

If your condition is genuinely secondary hypogonadism, I suspect many endos would try you on clomid first. Its a much better prospect than injecting twice a week.

I feel you have alot of research to do. I recommend loking into John Crisler and Justin Saya clomid/trt protocols. Those guys are about the best "internet active" specialists you could hope to find.

The reason trt protocols can take months to dial in has little to do with esters, but your body adjusting and establishing a new homeostasis. This takes time. For some it can happen quick, for many patience is required.

Its likely you will need some sort of AI dose during trt. But you have to be careful here. Trt is not like a blast where you have a much larger margin of error. Some guys dont need an AI at all, some a small dose once per week, most some sort of dose twice.

AI dose will depend on how large your trt dose is and how your body metabolises the injections and so on. This is why 2 inj per week can be better than one (if using cyp/e); more frequent and smaller injections generate less of a plasma spike and so less aromatisation.

Again, Id recommend you research the fuk out of this. Its in your own best intrerest that you do so.
thanks for the help man.
I actually saw a urologist today, and he said its weird that my LH is so low, because if I have low test, my body should be sending a signal to produce more.
He wants to do an MRI to see if it is related to my pituitary. and another blood test.
Now here is what I am worried about, I have been using the prop for about 2-3 weeks now. I made sure the blood test is at the end of the month, 24th, I believe. So I can stop the prop now and go back to my pre trt levels. I am worried my LH will be crashed and that my results might look suspicious due to the prop.
Obviously I should stop now, and from now until the 24th, is enough time for the test to leave my system? Is there anything else I can do, to make sure the results look as normal as possible? I have clomid on hand and aromasin.

Also he wants to put me on clomid, I was interested in TRT for the extra benefits. but I am totally open to clomid as long as it restores my levels to what they should be. I read up on how clomid works to increase test. But what kind of results am I likely to see? Can it boost T levels to 900-100, or something similar to TRT levels?
he also said he doesn't monitor estrogen or test for it, or use AIs, I forgot why, because it 'doesn't matter' or something, which I found weird.

How should I go about this?
I really appreciate the help
 
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