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Thread: Delayed Mild Gyno after PH Cylce

  1. #1
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    Delayed Mild Gyno after PH Cylce

    Here was my orals cycle

    Week 1-3: LGD Sarm (by German Pharmaceuticals) 4mg ED
    Weeks 2-6: M-Drol (by German Pharmaceuticals) 10/20/20/20/10, PH Test Base (Liquid Labs Te), Liver Support (Pure Labs Cycle Shield), Hormone Support (Liquid Labs Rise and Swell)

    Weeks 7-10 (PCT): Clomid 50/50/50/25, Liver Support (Pure Labs Cycle Shield), Hormone Support (Liquid Labs Rise and Swell & Pure Labs Testaflex)

    Weeks 11-15/present: Liver Support (Choline Bitartrate/Inositol 1000mg/ED & Methionine 1000mg/ED), Hormone Support (D3 2000 IUs/ED, Zinc 50mg before Bed, Magnesium 400mg before Bed)

    I started noticing nipple tenderness at week 14. I took some left over LG Sciences Liquid Formadrol but didn't do anything. I have an order of Arimidex and Clomid coming tomorrow.

    First, what the hell. Why so delayed? Is it an estrogen rebound or high SHBG levels. Did it take that long for the Mdrol to work out of my system? Was it the LGD SARM? Was my PCT off? Should I have had an AI?

    I finished off my LGD from my last cycle. In my previous cycle I experienced extreme fatigue which I theorized was caused by the LGD, though that seems unlikely. I was also taking epistane which I have taken several times in previous cycles and never experienced any extreme fatigue or shut down symptoms. So it must have been the LGD. I did not have a test base in that cycle so I added a PH test base to this one (Liquid Labs Te). It did seem to help this cycle since I took LGD again but the fatigue far less and manageable.

    I've read that Mdrol doesn't aromatize but it does occupy the SHBG leaving too much free testosterone that converts into estrogen. Perhaps this is what happened, but why did the Mdrol hang around so long?

    Lastly, I take the prescription propranolol for non-bodybuilding related purposes and did some research and found out that it and other beta-blockers can raise SHBG levels.

    I need some advice on how to best counteract the beginnings of gyno (take arimidex alone, or take the clomid with it? dosage and tapering suggestions?), what exactly is the root cause of the gyno, and what I should do differently next time. Also, some more education on SHGB would be appreciated. Please no stupid one line responses. Please engage with the information I've provided and if you don't know don't post your uninformed guesses.

  2. #2
    V.I.P. muskate's Avatar
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    We see threads like this every day.

    SARMS can only be legally sold as a research chemical liquid. Any capsulated SARMS product is most likely going to be fake or laced with a pro-hormone. I am not exaggerating when I say that every single day someone comes on the board and creates a thread asking for help because they are experiencing side effects from using capsulated SARMS. Remember to always purchase SARMS as a research chemical liquid. The SARMS source most of us on the board use is sarms1.com.

    Now you know for next time to always purchase SARMS as a research chemical liquid and to stay away from capsulated SARMS.

    The best thing you can do to remove gyno is to run the anti gyno protocol 3.0 -> http://www.evolutionary.org/anti-gyn...cure-version-3
    An AI like arimidex can help prevent getting gyno while on cycle but it isn't strong enough to remove pre-existing gyno. Run the anti gyno protocol exactly as laid out in the article.

    SHBG is a bad thing. It binds to the steroids in your body and renders them useless. The lower your SHBG the better (assuming your estrogen and prolactin are in check)

  3. #3
    Moderator stevesmi's Avatar
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    delayed estrogen rebound is more common than the forum guru's want to believe.

    they think just because they are stupid and get away with it that everyone else is too.

    being aware of what you are using and utilizing blood work is so crucial here
    Now taking clients for 1 on 1 consults
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  4. #4
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    I appreciate the advice on sarms source, but since you nor I know for sure whether the LGD I took was legit it is not very helpful to assume that it wasn't unless there is any evidence from the info I gave in my original post. I have used this source before and had fine results with other products and sarms. LGD is known to lower free test and SHBG levels (see http://www.evolutionary.org/lgd-4033) and there are some reported cases of gyno on it though it is rare (watch Dylan Gemelli's video on evolutionary's youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAlYUAbFHt8). So my problem is not an unrealistic side of LGD, though it would be rare. If you have any thoughts or experience to determine whether it was more likely the Mdrol or the LGD that would be helpful. In either case it is odd that it is springing up so late (7 weeks for the Mdrol and 10 weeks later for the LGD)

    As for the protocol which would be better the progestin or non-progestin? I don't currently have Nova and Letro on hand but I do have clomid and arimidex which are also both a SERM and AI like Nova and Letro. Though not as strong, would they be effective and at what doses? I should add that my "gyno" is very mild at this point; no puffiness or swelling, just tender nipples.

  5. #5
    Growing Moderator Masonic Bodybuilder's Avatar
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    German Pharmaceuticals are a UK based company so the SARMS could possibly have been legit. I guess it really doesn't matter if it was from the m drol or the LGD because you are dealing with an issue regardless.

    I would suggest never using that company's products again and run the anti gyno protocol.
    ***Canadians, hit me up on Wickr Mobile (MasonicBB) for my steroid source***




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