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Thread: General prep advise on upcoming 1rst cycle

  1. #1
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    General prep advise on upcoming 1rst cycle

    Hello all,

    First let me say, in a previous thread, you all have talked me out of a bunch of stupid shit and my 1rst cycle is on hold for awhile... just thought youd like to know that SOMETIMES your sage advice is not just wasted on ass-hats who claim that they want advice only to do whatever they originally had in mind anyway (yes, I've been reading through a lot of threads here for some time) - I'm sure that gets exasperating.

    Anyway, a recap on stats and such before the tons of questions: I'm 50 y/o in fairly decent shape and excellent overall health. About 20 years ago I lifted for a couple of years, lets say 1 full year where my nutrition, training, recovery were all on point - to the point where I had a couple people accusing me of taking steroids (when I had not - BIG compliment!) - I held on to a suprizingly decent amount of my gains over the years through random fits and bouts of "getting back in shape" - lol. recently I have gained a bunch of weight (over last 3 years) and taken most of it off in the last 10 months or so through diet, cardio, and now lifting again. I'm down about 60 pounds and sitting at approximately 20% body fat (YES, as per above, I'm not gonna think about cycle untill i get that down to at least 15%) Currently taking Cardarine 10mg to that end and plan on upping that to 20mg when I manage to increase the amount and intensity of cardio that i do each week - I'm kindof a low dose to start with kind of guy. My lifting routine is good, but probably not optimal... as my work schedule fluctuates and I tend to work long hours but with more days off - so I do not like going to gym on work days... honestly, I value having at least dinnertime with the wife and walking the dog each day so when I put in 14+ hours, thats all I have time for - that will not change on or off cycle, period. So basically I get 3 and sometimes 4 days of good gym time in, where I do a full body routine - all of the big compounds, and filling in with other dumbell/machine work to get at least 3 sets of excersizes for each major muscle group. Its been working out pretty well having every other day off to recover and I am continuing to make gains in stregnth. I'm repping 315 Deadlifts, for example, which I know is not amazing or anything, but ive only been at it for 8 or 9 months at age 50... and it's still increasing each week, so I think I'm doing OK. If I get a 4th gym day in the week, I tend to just work out whatever feels the most recovered, then throw in abs, cardio, and a bunch of bodyweight stuff. My diet is mostly keto, and probably will be for life, because I am prone to insulin resistance (I was less than inch away from a full blown DM2 diagnosis when I woke the fuck up last august and took control). Now, whenever I even smell a carb, my blood sugar spikes way out of proportion and stays elevated much longer than it shoud - like 12 hours instead of 4 hours - So again, on or off cycle, I will most likely stick with this nutrition plan (low carb) for the long haul, because thats what my body seems to want. Lastly, I'm on TRT (doctor managed... my test levels were VERY low, even for a 50 year old). I'm currently on 180mg Test C per week which is keeping me at the high end of normal, low dose progesterone cream each night, and 1/2 tab of anastozole each week. Regular blood work at the TRT clinic (and the injections for that matter) and injections/ancillaries are being tweaked accordingly... Im just getting to the point of stability where if my next set of bloods are similar/stable, then we will go to every 6 months bloodwork.

    So... with all this in mind, some of my questions (again, still just trying to sponge up as much wisdom as i can before eventually taking the plunge, which I WILL do eventually... probably after a set of bloods so i can do a 12 week cycle then and have 3 more months for everything to come back down to normal TRT maintenence levels before getting bloodwork at the TRT clinic again).

    1) any advice/tweaks to my lifting routine to continue making progress, getting ready for cycle in say 6-12 months from now(ish) ? Again only availablilty for good long hard gym time is 3-4 days a week, but I DO have a bench and adjustable dumbells at home (up to 60pounds each) to suppliment with if needed.
    2) Do you think this notion of starting a cycle after 6 month bloodwork at clinic is a good one ie: is three months off cycle ok for everything to even out so my clinic does not freak out and I loose my precription? Although, truth be told I'm sure I could just come clean and they would be willing to help me to get back on track if levels are messed up).
    3) Keto/low carb diet... while on cycle - bad idea? I would definately be getting in a good amount of protien. I'm not looking for crazy huge gains, going past my genetic potential... will be way more satisfied with a little shortcut getting me UP to my potential and the ability to hold on to as much of it as i can post cycle - on that note, I plan on getting in and getting out - maybe 2 cycles MAX then never again - like I said, a shortcut to getting there quicker, not mainting with lifelong use more than my body can maintain naturally at the cost of my liver, cardiovascular health etc.

    Any and all comments/advise/wisdom would be welcomed, appreciated and quite possibly acted upon - thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Banned Fella Finn's Avatar
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    1. I think full body or upper lower is great option in your situation (3-4 workouts per week).
    2. What I would like to know is why would you want to start serious cycling at this point of your life?
    3. To be honest with you I think keto is a flat out stupid but considering what you just told I think you don't have that many options?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fella Finn View Post
    1. I think full body or upper lower is great option in your situation (3-4 workouts per week).
    2. What I would like to know is why would you want to start serious cycling at this point of your life?
    3. To be honest with you I think keto is a flat out stupid but considering what you just told I think you don't have that many options?
    Ok, so 1) do you think this full body 3x a week will still be (somewhat) effective even on cycle? Or am I just wasting my time/money if I canít commit to more days per week 2) why cycle at this stage of life... simple... vanity and desire to get closer to my potential a little faster... not the best reasons, I know, but at least Iím honest... having recently lost a bunch of weight, Iím pretty hungry to see more progress faster... again, my plan is to just do one or maybe 2 cycles MAX then be done for good... and nothing crazy, just good solid beginner cycles 3) I suppose I could incorporate carbs while on cycle... a 2 or 3 month stretch of carbs on cycle will not turn me into a full blown diabetic, I donít think, even if it does completely fuck with my system, the cure is simple, just go back to low carbs again. I guess Iím just trying to figure out how much difference not having carbs on cycle would make... again, if Iím gonna do this, I donít want it to be a waste of time and risk to my health for no reason

  4. #4
    Moderator Mobster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flubdubman View Post
    Hello all,

    First let me say, in a previous thread, you all have talked me out of a bunch of stupid shit and my 1rst cycle is on hold for awhile... just thought youd like to know that SOMETIMES your sage advice is not just wasted on ass-hats who claim that they want advice only to do whatever they originally had in mind anyway (yes, I've been reading through a lot of threads here for some time) - I'm sure that gets exasperating.

    Anyway, a recap on stats and such before the tons of questions: I'm 50 y/o in fairly decent shape and excellent overall health. About 20 years ago I lifted for a couple of years, lets say 1 full year where my nutrition, training, recovery were all on point - to the point where I had a couple people accusing me of taking steroids (when I had not - BIG compliment!) - I held on to a suprizingly decent amount of my gains over the years through random fits and bouts of "getting back in shape" - lol. recently I have gained a bunch of weight (over last 3 years) and taken most of it off in the last 10 months or so through diet, cardio, and now lifting again. I'm down about 60 pounds and sitting at approximately 20% body fat (YES, as per above, I'm not gonna think about cycle untill i get that down to at least 15%) Currently taking Cardarine 10mg to that end and plan on upping that to 20mg when I manage to increase the amount and intensity of cardio that i do each week - I'm kindof a low dose to start with kind of guy. My lifting routine is good, but probably not optimal... as my work schedule fluctuates and I tend to work long hours but with more days off - so I do not like going to gym on work days... honestly, I value having at least dinnertime with the wife and walking the dog each day so when I put in 14+ hours, thats all I have time for - that will not change on or off cycle, period. So basically I get 3 and sometimes 4 days of good gym time in, where I do a full body routine - all of the big compounds, and filling in with other dumbell/machine work to get at least 3 sets of excersizes for each major muscle group. Its been working out pretty well having every other day off to recover and I am continuing to make gains in stregnth. I'm repping 315 Deadlifts, for example, which I know is not amazing or anything, but ive only been at it for 8 or 9 months at age 50... and it's still increasing each week, so I think I'm doing OK. If I get a 4th gym day in the week, I tend to just work out whatever feels the most recovered, then throw in abs, cardio, and a bunch of bodyweight stuff. My diet is mostly keto, and probably will be for life, because I am prone to insulin resistance (I was less than inch away from a full blown DM2 diagnosis when I woke the fuck up last august and took control). Now, whenever I even smell a carb, my blood sugar spikes way out of proportion and stays elevated much longer than it shoud - like 12 hours instead of 4 hours - So again, on or off cycle, I will most likely stick with this nutrition plan (low carb) for the long haul, because thats what my body seems to want. Lastly, I'm on TRT (doctor managed... my test levels were VERY low, even for a 50 year old). I'm currently on 180mg Test C per week which is keeping me at the high end of normal, low dose progesterone cream each night, and 1/2 tab of anastozole each week. Regular blood work at the TRT clinic (and the injections for that matter) and injections/ancillaries are being tweaked accordingly... Im just getting to the point of stability where if my next set of bloods are similar/stable, then we will go to every 6 months bloodwork.

    So... with all this in mind, some of my questions (again, still just trying to sponge up as much wisdom as i can before eventually taking the plunge, which I WILL do eventually... probably after a set of bloods so i can do a 12 week cycle then and have 3 more months for everything to come back down to normal TRT maintenence levels before getting bloodwork at the TRT clinic again).

    1) any advice/tweaks to my lifting routine to continue making progress, getting ready for cycle in say 6-12 months from now(ish) ? Again only availablilty for good long hard gym time is 3-4 days a week, but I DO have a bench and adjustable dumbells at home (up to 60pounds each) to suppliment with if needed.
    2) Do you think this notion of starting a cycle after 6 month bloodwork at clinic is a good one ie: is three months off cycle ok for everything to even out so my clinic does not freak out and I loose my precription? Although, truth be told I'm sure I could just come clean and they would be willing to help me to get back on track if levels are messed up).
    3) Keto/low carb diet... while on cycle - bad idea? I would definately be getting in a good amount of protien. I'm not looking for crazy huge gains, going past my genetic potential... will be way more satisfied with a little shortcut getting me UP to my potential and the ability to hold on to as much of it as i can post cycle - on that note, I plan on getting in and getting out - maybe 2 cycles MAX then never again - like I said, a shortcut to getting there quicker, not mainting with lifelong use more than my body can maintain naturally at the cost of my liver, cardiovascular health etc.

    Any and all comments/advise/wisdom would be welcomed, appreciated and quite possibly acted upon - thanks in advance!
    First off - congrats on the 60lb loss.

    Keep that going before the cycle but diet (of the low carb etc kind) and wanting gains... ?

    Multiple record holder. British and European Grip Champion. Magazine writer. Strength Training Coach. Former supplement company owner.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobster View Post
    First off - congrats on the 60lb loss.

    Keep that going before the cycle but diet (of the low carb etc kind) and wanting gains... ?
    Well, yes, that’s what I’m asking about... impossible?? There is a lot of new studies out there showing that lean muscle can be built without carbs given enough protein , but 1) none that I can see that compares low carb to a traditional BB diet... and 2) OBVIOUSLY no studies out there taking PED’s into the equation.

    Again, when I do eventually go on cycle, I obviously don’t want it to be a waste of time... so should I just bite the bullet and accept that my blood sugar levels are going to be high for a couple of months?

  6. #6
    Cyborg Humanoid Brother awm1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flubdubman View Post
    Well, yes, that’s what I’m asking about... impossible?? There is a lot of new studies out there showing that lean muscle can be built without carbs given enough protein , but 1) none that I can see that compares low carb to a traditional BB diet... and 2) OBVIOUSLY no studies out there taking PED’s into the equation.

    Again, when I do eventually go on cycle, I obviously don’t want it to be a waste of time... so should I just bite the bullet and accept that my blood sugar levels are going to be high for a couple of months?
    Its too bad you are/were near diabetic. Id say HGH all the way if that was not the case.

    So steroids dont burn body fat. Hard work and diet does. If you are on TRT for 180mg/week as long as you have a good 5-6 weeks for the compounds to work their way out fo your system before your next bloods you should be fine.

    Having said that its really up to you man. You will need a larger amount of AI so id be prepared to get some from PSL or another vendor. You wont need PCT if you are on TRT. I will say this though i wouldnt increase your dose more than once a year, maybe twice at the most and id never go higher than 500mg.

    The diet and exercise stuff you really should consult with Stevesmi or Trevor or others on here that can give you that advice. One routine does not fit all nor does diet.

  7. #7
    Moderator stevesmi's Avatar
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    let me boil it down for you:

    building muscle = lifting weights and breaking down the muscle consistently and recovering properly
    losing fat= all about the body spending more of the day burning fat vs. storing fat

    a lot of people get this concept fucked up because they pay attention to the wrong people giving advice. that is why when guys tell others on forums to 'eat more' that is lazy advice in most cases. granted some guys need to eat more, but most who eat more will just get fatter. don't conflate being fatter with actual muscle tissue gains. if you do, then you will quickly end up like the majority of guys in meathead gyms who are perma bulkers. i'm not impressed with that physique. anyone can just over eat and lift a lot and have a 38" waist and be strong.

    also as far as carbs. you aren't gonna get fat off raw oats, raw nuts, sweet potato, fruit, plain rice, etc. so don't fear carbs.. people think carbs means bread, pizza, lasagna, pasta, etc so they run from it.

    and as far as keto.. when you are in ketosis your body is in major fat burning mode. but a keto diet as advertised by gurus doesn't actually put you in keto. the thing that puts you into deep ketosis is water fasting for more than 2-3 days. that is when the body switches and you start pissing out tons of ketones. the keto diet works great for some people, but again let's not believe the social media gurus when they claim that eating meat all day puts you into ketosis, because it does not. you can go spend $500 on a cookie cutter diet from dave palumbo who pushes keto, but remember he copy/pastes the same diet to a thousand other people and even admits so. it is extremely fucked up because eating the same foods and macros everyday has major consequences
    Last edited by stevesmi; 06-15-2019 at 12:01 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by awm1981 View Post
    Its too bad you are/were near diabetic. Id say HGH all the way if that was not the case.

    So steroids dont burn body fat. Hard work and diet does. If you are on TRT for 180mg/week as long as you have a good 5-6 weeks for the compounds to work their way out fo your system before your next bloods you should be fine.

    Having said that its really up to you man. You will need a larger amount of AI so id be prepared to get some from PSL or another vendor. You wont need PCT if you are on TRT. I will say this though i wouldnt increase your dose more than once a year, maybe twice at the most and id never go higher than 500mg.

    The diet and exercise stuff you really should consult with Stevesmi or Trevor or others on here that can give you that advice. One routine does not fit all nor does diet.
    More AI- CHECK -already planned on.. I pulled a sneaky and told my pharmacy I lost my newly refilled bottle of anastrazole... so now I have extra to take while on cycle 2) not more than once a year... CHECK! Actually I only plan on one maybe twice TOTAL... then never again for the rest of my life... I just want a nice little bump, not looking to get monsterously big. And no higher than 500... CHECK! Again, im going to keep it a tried and true beginners level... I donít need everyone around me to immediately start thinking Iím on cycle... thanks for the input!

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    Cyborg Humanoid Brother awm1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flubdubman View Post
    More AI- CHECK -already planned on.. I pulled a sneaky and told my pharmacy I lost my newly refilled bottle of anastrazole... so now I have extra to take while on cycle 2) not more than once a year... CHECK! Actually I only plan on one maybe twice TOTAL... then never again for the rest of my life... I just want a nice little bump, not looking to get monsterously big. And no higher than 500... CHECK! Again, im going to keep it a tried and true beginners level... I donít need everyone around me to immediately start thinking Iím on cycle... thanks for the input!
    No problem and yea honestly even at 500mg/week for 10-12 weeks if you keep your diet and training in check you wont look like a pro bodybuilder. I ran my first test cycle stepping up from 250mg/week to 375mg/week to 500mg/week. First 6 weeks were split into 3 week blocks to see how my body responded with the last 6 weeks at the 500mg/week level.

    I got stronger/bigger but wasnt crazy by any means. Im almost 6'9" tall and was around 265 before cycle and then at the end was around 278 or so so 13 pounds with a good deal as water weight.

    I did gain some bodyfat though. I was hovering around 13% beforehand then around 16% at the end. Overall it was a solid cycle but next cycle im actually going to run 250-300mg/week test and 600mg/week primobolan for the leaner/harder gains.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevesmi View Post
    let me boil it down for you:

    building muscle = lifting weights and breaking down the muscle consistently and recovering properly
    losing fat= all about the body spending more of the day burning fat vs. storing fat

    a lot of people get this concept fucked up because they pay attention to the wrong people giving advice. that is why when guys tell others on forums to 'eat more' that is lazy advice in most cases. granted some guys need to eat more, but most who eat more will just get fatter. don't conflate being fatter with actual muscle tissue gains. if you do, then you will quickly end up like the majority of guys in meathead gyms who are perma bulkers. i'm not impressed with that physique. anyone can just over eat and lift a lot and have a 38" waist and be strong.

    also as far as carbs. you aren't gonna get fat off raw oats, raw nuts, sweet potato, fruit, plain rice, etc. so don't fear carbs.. people think carbs means bread, pizza, lasagna, pasta, etc so they run from it.

    and as far as keto.. when you are in ketosis your body is in major fat burning mode. but a keto diet as advertised by gurus doesn't actually put you in keto. the thing that puts you into deep ketosis is water fasting for more than 2-3 days. that is when the body switches and you start pissing out tons of ketones. the keto diet works great for some people, but again let's not believe the social media gurus when they claim that eating meat all day puts you into ketosis, because it does not. you can go spend $500 on a cookie cutter diet from dave palumbo who pushes keto, but remember he copy/pastes the same diet to a thousand other people and even admits so. it is extremely fucked up because eating the same foods and macros everyday has major consequences
    Thatís good info... I lost a lot of weight on keto, and I DID incorporate water fasting on and off... actually my longest fast was 12 days! Anyway, my body feels great on low carb now, but I do get a tiny bit of carbs in... itís not zero carb. With what you say, I think when I do eventually go on cycle Iíll try carb cycling... eat carbs (sweet potatoes, oats, etc) on lifting days then straight carnivore on non lift days... maybe that will keep everything in check. I donít do it much right now, but Iím pretty good and tracking/logging/adjusting Calories/ macros, which I will definitely do on cycle so I donít end up with that 38 inch waist... Iíve worked too hard to go from a 40 inch waist to 34 inch waist... and it seems to be an even bigger bitch to get that lower (goal is 32 inch waist without looking like a cancer patient before going on cycle) my OCD will NOT let me go back up in BF too much while on cycle... Iíd sooner quit half way through than let that happen... thanks again!

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