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Is HCG necessary for my cycle/when would you suggest using HCG?

rectal_barrage

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So I am going to be starting my first cycle soon, 250mg Test E E3D for 12 weeks, using Adex to prevent gyno, and Nolva for PCT 40/40/20/20 starting two weeks after my last pin (if anybody can see anything wrong with this plan let me know).

I am wondering whether I should incorporate HCG into my cycle - perhaps 250 IU mon/wed/fri for the second six weeks, ending when I have my last pin. The idea being to allow the boys to recover so my natural test production will kick in quicker on PCT. I am wondering if this is normal or necessary (it appears not to be commonly used on a cycle like this), or more pertinently, whether I will see much of a real benefit from doing this? The cost of the HCG is relatively high, but I would rather be safe than sorry obviously.
 
what you are describing is actually what I like to call a 'bridge pct' which roller coasters your HPTA while the hormone esters are clearing your system. it is not a true pct. a true pct would be 8 weeks, not 4 weeks

it is also important to understand what hcg is and how it works and what it does. it doesn't recover 'your boys'. it suppresses them since it mimics LH in the body. you are pretty much signaling to your pituitary glands to stop producing LH. this will actually delay recovery, not speed it up.. however if you ask most forum guru's about hcg they will tell you the opposite because hcg plumps up your nuts giving the false impression you are helping.. reason being it fakes your leydig cells into springing into action. problem is it also is telling your pits to go dormant :( if you have excessive LH (since hcg is mimicking LH) then why would your pits decide to produce LH? they don't!

hope this makes sense.. I'm not saying use hcg or don't use hcg.. I'm trying to explain how it works. how can I explain it any simpler to you?
 
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Ahh so something more like nolva 40/40/40/40/20/20/20/20? I will be getting bloods done so I guess that me and the doc will be able to tell if my pits and testes have recovered and I can end the PCT earlier.

I am totally on the same page as you with regard to HCG, however I haven't read anywhere that it directly inhibits the pits? My understanding is that it's the high levels of test and estrogen that do that when you are on a cycle.? I could be mistaken here :/

So the idea of doing the HCG would be to give the testes something to tide them over, producing some test which would have little direct effect on the pits (compared to the massive amounts of test I am injecting). So with HCG they haven't been dormant for over 14 weeks straight. This being in contrast to doing HCG while on PCT which would be pointless, as this would then inhibit the pits and they wouldn't wake up until I ceased the HCG.
 
^^^ yes something like SERM for 4-6 weeks low dose

then run a T booster non suppressive for 4-8 additional weeks. something like Test stack Rx would work perfect http://www.evolutionary.org/forums/teststackrx/just-recieved-email-i-d-do-fast-4594.html << click that and I post how to run it

and then some SARM's as your bridge into next cycle from sarms1.

that will work far better than the old school 4 week stack 2 SERM's and jump back on cycle strategy guys do.. that's why guys end up on HRT at 30 years old

the real recovery happens on your own, SERM's merely are a bridge while esters are clearing out.

and hcgenerate (the supplement) will help cleanse out your organs and also give you a libido boost so you can stack that in at any point.. it also will help plump up your boys
 
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HCG will make a nice addition to your cycle. I usually run it towards the end of mine and then through PCT. HCG definitely helps and its way cheaper than sarms. Save yourself a few bucks.
 
HCG will make a nice addition to your cycle. I usually run it towards the end of mine and then through PCT. HCG definitely helps and its way cheaper than sarms. Save yourself a few bucks.

yeah, save yourself a few bucks and ruin yourself by using hcg in pct... that's HORRIBLE advice and one of the worst things you can do... the last thing you want in pct is something that increases estrogen and continuously mimicks lh and fsh... so, keep mimicking, instead of actually jumpstarting and bottom out your lh and fsh... real wise advice... NOT...

please do not listen to this absurdity...

the only place i ever recommend hcg use is the 2 weeks prior to pct for a blast before however using hcgenerate es in this period and running through pct is safer and extremely effective...

read this article on pct and then follow the protocol...

http://www.evolutionary.org/the-perfect-post-cycle-therapy-pct/


PCT


clomid 50/50/25/25 AG-guys.com

nolva 40/20/20/20 AG-guys.com

aromasin 12.5 mg eod AG-guys.com

hcgemerate es www.n2bm.com

n2guard n2bm.com
mk-2866 25 mg day www.sarms1.com

gw-501516 20 mg day www.sarms1.com




USE COUPON CODE DYLAN10 AT NEEDTOBUILDMUSCLE.COM FOR 10% OFF…
 
I've been dealing with dylan for many years from EF, to here. He definatly knows he sh!t. Always on point with an answer, he won't steer u wrong!
yeah, save yourself a few bucks and ruin yourself by using hcg in pct... that's HORRIBLE advice and one of the worst things you can do... the last thing you want in pct is something that increases estrogen and continuously mimicks lh and fsh... so, keep mimicking, instead of actually jumpstarting and bottom out your lh and fsh... real wise advice... NOT...

please do not listen to this absurdity...

the only place i ever recommend hcg use is the 2 weeks prior to pct for a blast before however using hcgenerate es in this period and running through pct is safer and extremely effective...

read this article on pct and then follow the protocol...

http://www.evolutionary.org/the-perfect-post-cycle-therapy-pct/


PCT


clomid 50/50/25/25 AG-guys.com

nolva 40/20/20/20 AG-guys.com

aromasin 12.5 mg eod AG-guys.com

hcgemerate es www.n2bm.com

n2guard n2bm.com
mk-2866 25 mg day www.sarms1.com

gw-501516 20 mg day www.sarms1.com




USE COUPON CODE DYLAN10 AT NEEDTOBUILDMUSCLE.COM FOR 10% OFF…
 
Use it on cycle only. Its not a must, but it does help keep the old boys plump. Off cycle you are just suppressing your natural rebound.
 
Before I started blast & cruise I would use hcg during cycles (250iu twice per week i believe) throughout the entire duration of the cycle. Recovery was so much easier and faster after i got off...sometimes I didn't even use clomid.
 
HCG will make a nice addition to your cycle. I usually run it towards the end of mine and then through PCT. HCG definitely helps and its way cheaper than sarms. Save yourself a few bucks.

Why would you run hcg IN your pct? Run it between your cycle and pct.
 
Before I started blast & cruise I would use hcg during cycles (250iu twice per week i believe) throughout the entire duration of the cycle. Recovery was so much easier and faster after i got off...sometimes I didn't even use clomid.

That's the way my TRT doc had me doing it a few years back (didn't need a doc, just wanted to cruise on some good shit, lol), then I found I recovered even better using it the last 2 weeks of cycle and two more weeks before pct. I was clomid only too, and very low dosage for a very short time span, so I know it (hcg) worked well enough this way.
 
The foremost authority on HCG is Dr. Crisler aka SWALE on the boards.
You can google "Swales HCG protocol."
He is a lifter and has a good physique.

Ahhh thankyou that's exactly what I was looking for (and similar to what I was planning to do)! That kind of HCG use (~250 IU E3D during cycle) is what I had in mind and what made sense to me but there is a lot of conflicting stuff about HCG and I wasn't sure. Most advice seem to be something like 'oh you could use HCG that would help with recovery'.

I guess my primary concern was whether or not there was a real risk of using too much HCG and desensitising my leydig cells but from what I have read this isn't a problem on this kind of dose?
 
The foremost authority on HCG is Dr. Crisler aka SWALE on the boards.
You can google "Swales HCG protocol."
He is a lifter and has a good physique.

that protocol he says to stop hcg a week after last injection. and says to NOT use it in pct.

also he says his reasoning is due to its 'testosterone inducing properties' ... this is 100% false and I am shocked a supposed expert doctor would not understand that hcg mimics LH and thus that is the reason you should not use in pct. the fact that T rises is due to the leydig cells responding to the LH mimicking. either he totally dumbed down his explanation or he really has no clue how hcg actually works.
 
To add to to this. I've been on low dose TRT since July. I was not holding much and no gyno. I added HCG at 200mg every 3 days a few weeks ago. Within 2 weeks of first HCG shot my nipple got sore and I felt a lump. I got some advice here and did some research on gyno and HCG. My conclusion is that HCG is responsible for the gyno. I'm done with it. Why not use a safer option that the experienced guys here have taken the time to lay out for us?
 
To add to to this. I've been on low dose TRT since July. I was not holding much and no gyno. I added HCG at 200mg every 3 days a few weeks ago. Within 2 weeks of first HCG shot my nipple got sore and I felt a lump. I got some advice here and did some research on gyno and HCG. My conclusion is that HCG is responsible for the gyno. I'm done with it. Why not use a safer option that the experienced guys here have taken the time to lay out for us?

because hcg spikes your estrogen levels is why your gyno flared up.

to answer your question a lot of guys are stubborn and stuck in the 80's still. I've never approached fitness this way and am always looking for better ways. if anything as I've gotten older I have been more willing to progress into the future. a lot of guru's in the past who guys depended on came up with ideas that at the time were good, but today are just plain outdated. the biggest one is using nolva (which isn't even an AI) to control estrogen when there are far better options today. back in 1988 it was the best option but today aromasin as a suicide AI is the absolute best way to control E, did not exist back then. in fact if you ask the older guys at the gym what an AI is they will have no clue but they know what nolva is
 
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It has it's benefits no doubt... But I would definitely be running aromasin anytime I'm cycling HCG. Do you run a AI in conjunction with your low TRT dose?
 
Why would you run hcg IN your pct? Run it between your cycle and pct.

Through to PCT....I run mine the last few weeks of cycle and during the 2 weeks before PCT. Good catch on my typo....my fingers aren't as fast as my brain some times.
 
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