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I Maintain -- Fasting is the WORST Thing a Bodybuilder Can Do

nelson montana

<b>V.I.P. - Author</b>
It's damaging to bodybuilding goals in so many ways. And I'll prove it. But not here.

In this field we depend on being as informed as possible. But don't mistake a lot of wrong information as being better informed. This is what i will address.

The reason for all of this? I was recently accused of "bringing down the level of the podcasts" by saying that I don't believe in fasting. It was an off the cuff remark and we didn't get into it much. Rick said he didn't want to say I was wrong because he believes in "respecting his elders."

Well, I'm 67 and I say, "Fuck the elders." Somebody can be old and be an asshole.

What SHOULD be respected is someone's knowledge, talent, intellect, experience and accomplishments, and if you've been on this planet long enough, hopefully you've acquired it. And THAT is what is worthy of respect, not just the age.

So Rick invited me to do a rebuttal. It'll be me against Rick and Stevesmi -- two against one, but I can handle it. I may be old -- but I'm sneaky. lol I've got a few aces up my sleeve that will shock the audience.

So tune into the "Fasting Controversy" podcast coming soon.

School will be in session .
 
2 out of the past 3 Nobel Prize winners in medicine won it by proving that fasting causes autophagy. The science is not on your side Nelson but I look forward to the podcast.

if more bodybuilders fasted they would still be alive today and much healthier. everyone i don't care if you knit for a living or you are at the highest levels of bodybuilding can and will benefit from fasting.

btw I've done it and the benefits were miraculous. My total cholesterol levels went from 220 to 140. my blood sugar went from 136 to 69. went from ridiculously insulin resistant to insulin sensitive. fasting works. I logged 2 of my longer fasts below. I had originally planned 5 days but i loved it so much i went 10. the other fast was 19 days. and last week i completed a 5 day fast which was a piece of cake.
https://www.evolutionary.org/my-19-day-water-fast-story/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums.../10-day-water-fast-completed-today-54370.html

also just FYI the person who said that comment was a listener to the podcast, it wasn't Rick or I. but yeah Rick can shoot from the hip sometimes, trust me i know i work with him and he isn't the easiest guy to get along with. but we will be ready.

the podcast should be recorded this week and be live in about 2 weeks for everyone to listen to
 
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The worst? Not even close. Not even on the same planet as some stupid shit.

One MIGHT argue about eating a great deal of food in a 6 hour window isn't great. But that's off set by the benefits (and not doing any great harm - if any) of the other 18 hours without food. Something, in both cases, we've done many times through history and survived as a species.

I suspect Nelson is using a VERY BIG spoon to stir debate.

And I say all that as a 56 year old ;)
 
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2 out of the past 3 Nobel Prize winners in medicine won it by proving that fasting causes autophagy. The science is not on your side Nelson but I look forward to the podcast.

if more bodybuilders fasted they would still be alive today and much healthier. everyone i don't care if you knit for a living or you are at the highest levels of bodybuilding can and will benefit from fasting.

btw I've done it and the benefits were miraculous. My total cholesterol levels went from 220 to 140. my blood sugar went from 136 to 69. went from ridiculously insulin resistant to insulin sensitive. fasting works. I logged 2 of my longer fasts below. I had originally planned 5 days but i loved it so much i went 10. the other fast was 19 days. and last week i completed a 5 day fast which was a piece of cake.
https://www.evolutionary.org/my-19-day-water-fast-story/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums.../10-day-water-fast-completed-today-54370.html

also just FYI the person who said that comment was a listener to the podcast, it wasn't Rick or I. but yeah Rick can shoot from the hip sometimes, trust me i know i work with him and he isn't the easiest guy to get along with. but we will be ready.

the podcast should be recorded this week and be live in about 2 weeks for everyone to listen to

Autophagy can be created without getting anywhere near a starvation state. (Which is anything approximately over 24 hours without food). So this is a perfect example fo reading the science wrong. One thing I've learned with my dealings with scientists is that they often see what they want to see and use a scientific conclusion to reach it. Well, science is never wrong, but a scientist often is. And scientific conclusions are discredited all the time.

Your cholesterol and went down when fasting? No shit. You ate less! You didn't have to fast to get that result. My cholesterol is 150 and I never fasted in my life.

I'd love to tell you why fasting gets easier, and why it isn't a good thing, but I'll save that for the podcast.
 
Autophagy can be created without getting anywhere near a starvation state. (Which is anything approximately over 24 hours without food). So this is a perfect example fo reading the science wrong. One thing I've learned with my dealings with scientists is that they often see what they want to see and use a scientific conclusion to reach it. Well, science is never wrong, but a scientist often is. And scientific conclusions are discredited all the time.

Your cholesterol and went down when fasting? No shit. You ate less! You didn't have to fast to get that result. My cholesterol is 150 and I never fasted in my life.

I'd love to tell you why fasting gets easier, and why it isn't a good thing, but I'll save that for the podcast.

Def interested! I use intermittent fasting from time to time and it has worked for me but doing 16/8 not full 24 hours + as ive no interested in ketosis. Interested to hear the other perspective because I see things everywhere even Harvard articles stating its benefits.

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Def interested! I use intermittent fasting from time to time and it has worked for me but doing 16/8 not full 24 hours + as ive no interested in ketosis. Interested to hear the other perspective because I see things everywhere even Harvard articles stating its benefits.

Yikes sorry not Ketosis mix my no carb thought process in there!

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But speaking about ketosis would be interesting if you guys touched on that too!
 
Autophagy can be created without getting anywhere near a starvation state. (Which is anything approximately over 24 hours without food). So this is a perfect example fo reading the science wrong. One thing I've learned with my dealings with scientists is that they often see what they want to see and use a scientific conclusion to reach it. Well, science is never wrong, but a scientist often is. And scientific conclusions are discredited all the time.

Your cholesterol and went down when fasting? No shit. You ate less! You didn't have to fast to get that result. My cholesterol is 150 and I never fasted in my life.

I'd love to tell you why fasting gets easier, and why it isn't a good thing, but I'll save that for the podcast.

have you ever fasted? that will be the first question you are asked on the podcast. if you haven't done it then how does anything you have to say on the matter mean anything? you have no anecdotal evidence to back up any of your claims. I've got bloods, logs, pics, etc. to back mine up. I also have some amazing client stories from people i have got fasting, from avg joes to guys who compete. Rick and I have been fasting since we were in our 20's. I've been doing prolong fasts for years now along with time restricted eating. we have 40 years experience doing it. you have 0.

I already knew you would throw the science in the trash. and I told Rick that this morning. so if you don't want to listen to the science and you want to ignore the anecdotal evidence, then that leaves us where?

you might want to fast first before coming on, atleast that would even the playing field on anecdotal evidence, and get daily bloods while you are at it like i have where you can see the evidence in black and white. unless you don't believe in blood work either i don't know.

also 20 hours is the number to shoot for. so if you go 24 hours you only get 4 hours of autophagy. that is great, but that isn't gonna get you the benefits of a longer fast. which brings me to the 2nd question you will be asked which is to define what fasting even means to you. one person might view fasting as 10 hours, another might view it as 10 days. it depends. you might want to brush up on the differences

the bloods i have showed that WBC dropped 3 days into my fast. so that is going to be the day you start getting the true autophagy. how nice in an age of a pandemic to get rid of old weak WBC's and rebirth brand new troops. last i checked bodybuilders have to stay healthy to workout right?

btw it is important to remember even just fasting 12-16 hours a day and time restricted eating has benefits. specifically it will save your gut a lot of problems. no you won't get autophagy coming into play but you still get a lot of other benefits. again another huge deal for bodybuilders since they have awful gut health
 
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Most guys on this forum run gear or sarms. Some are looking to bulk, while others recomp or cut. It would be helpful to share how fasting should be applied to each from your perspective. Get the health benefits but is there a time and place when it should be applied and other times not?
 
Most guys on this forum run gear or sarms. Some are looking to bulk, while others recomp or cut. It would be helpful to share how fasting should be applied to each from your perspective. Get the health benefits but is there a time and place when it should be applied and other times not?

we have a podcast on fasting https://poddtoppen.se/podcast/10713...dcast-317-qa-fasting-and-steroids-for-cutting that will answer most of your questions.

also I have an Ebook guide in my signature on fasting. you can buy it off amazon for a few bucks or you can simply drop me a message and you will get it for FREE.
 
But speaking about ketosis would be interesting if you guys touched on that too!

most people sadly will reach ketosis within 24 hours on a fast. that is because they are so super insulin resistant. I don't believe you may fall into that group because of your history of doing IF. you probably will hit it sometime on day 2.

you can buy ketone strips from the drug store and piss on it. if you start noticing ketones in your urine then you hit it
 
most people sadly will reach ketosis within 24 hours on a fast. that is because they are so super insulin resistant. I don't believe you may fall into that group because of your history of doing IF. you probably will hit it sometime on day 2.

you can buy ketone strips from the drug store and piss on it. if you start noticing ketones in your urine then you hit it

Gotcha good to know!
 
have you ever fasted? that will be the first question you are asked on the podcast. if you haven't done it then how does anything you have to say on the matter mean anything?


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WELL, THAT MAKES NO SENSE. I'VE NEVER JUMPED OUT OF A WINDOW FROM 10 FLOORS UP. DOES THAT MEAN I CAN'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF I DO?

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you have no anecdotal evidence to back up any of your claims. I've got bloods, logs, pics, etc. to back mine up.

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NOPE. I HAVE LOGIC AND PROOF. YOUR BLOOD TESTS AND PICS DON'T SHOW HOW WELL YOU COULD HAVE DONE WITHOUT FASTING AND THEY DON'T SHOW THE DOWN SIDE.

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I also have some amazing client stories from people i have got fasting, from avg joes to guys who compete. Rick and I have been fasting since we were in our 20's. I've been doing prolong fasts for years now along with time restricted eating. we have 40 years experience doing it. you have 0.

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AND YET, I HAVEN'T DONE HALF AS MUCH GEAR AS YOU GUYS AND AM OVER 20 YEARS OLDER AND I'D SAY I LOOK AT LEAST AS GOOD AS EITHER ONE OF YOU. : ) [/I


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I already knew you would throw the science in the trash. and I told Rick that this morning. so if you don't want to listen to the science and you want to ignore the anecdotal evidence, then that leaves us where?

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I HAVE SCIENCE. I'D LOVE TO DISCUSS THE SCIENCE AND THE STUDIES. I'M NOT SURE WHERE YOU GOT THIS NOTION THAT IT WAS ANECDOTAL.


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you might want to fast first before coming on, atleast that would even the playing field on anecdotal evidence, and get daily bloods while you are at it like i have where you can see the evidence in black and white. unless you don't believe in blood work either i don't know.


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I HAVE EVIDENCE TOO.

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also 20 hours is the number to shoot for. so if you go 24 hours you only get 4 hours of autophagy. that is great, but that isn't gonna get you the benefits of a longer fast. which brings me to the 2nd question you will be asked which is to define what fasting even means to you. one person might view fasting as 10 hours, another might view it as 10 days. it depends. you might want to brush up on the differences

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THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE FIRST QUESTION THAT I WAS GOING TO ASK. IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NOT EATING AFTER 2:00 IN THE AFTERNOON, THAT'S NOT A FAST TO ME. ANYTHING OVER 48 HOURS IS DAMAGING TO THE BODY. AND NOT BEING HUNGRY IS ONE OF THE SYMPTOMS. EVER WONDER WHY YOU AREN'T HUNGRY?


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the bloods i have showed that WBC dropped 3 days into my fast. so that is going to be the day you start getting the true autophagy. how nice in an age of a pandemic to get rid of old weak WBC's and rebirth brand new troops. last i checked bodybuilders have to stay healthy to workout right?

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SO YOU GAVE BLOOD AND GAVE BLOOD AGAIN THREE DAYS LATER AND HAD LOWER WBC? OF COURSE! YOU HAD BLOOD DRAWN THREE DAYS AGO.

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btw it is important to remember even just fasting 12-16 hours a day and time restricted eating has benefits. specifically it will save your gut a lot of problems. no you won't get autophagy coming into play but you still get a lot of other benefits. again another huge deal for bodybuilders since they have awful gut health


WELL, TO ME THAT IS JUST CUTTING CALORIES. SKIPPING BREAKFAST IS THE OLDEST TRICK IN THE BOOK. THAT'LL GIVE YOU ABOUT 15 HOURS WITH NO FOOD AND IT WONT REQUIRE SUFFERING OR BEING IN A CATABOLIC STATE. .

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Answers are above.

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we have a podcast on fasting https://poddtoppen.se/podcast/10713...dcast-317-qa-fasting-and-steroids-for-cutting that will answer most of your questions.

also I have an Ebook guide in my signature on fasting. you can buy it off amazon for a few bucks or you can simply drop me a message and you will get it for FREE.

.............................................

It's difficult enough trying to get people to change their convictions. But i had no idea you were so invested in it, nor did I know it was a source of business. So for those reasons, I'll relent. But I'll be happy to discuss it in private.
 
bro nelson...i think fasting is good for all...especially bodybuilders...only super amazing genetics guys dont benefit from fasting (like 1%)...99% get positives from fasting
 
bro nelson...i think fasting is good for all...especially bodybuilders...only super amazing genetics guys dont benefit from fasting (like 1%)...99% get positives from fasting

It's a complex issue and I'm willing to show how extended fasting is anti muscle growth and not especially healthy. I do believe in going hungry and not over burdening the system. You can't get lean without going hungry.

I made this introduction to promote the podcast but already, it seems like it might be too confrontational and I would rather avoid the antagonism.
 
It's a complex issue and I'm willing to show how extended fasting is anti muscle growth and not especially healthy. I do believe in going hungry and not over burdening the system. You can't get lean without going hungry.

I made this introduction to promote the podcast but already, it seems like it might be too confrontational and I would rather avoid the antagonism.


Bro you make valid points ... you’re not confrontational... you’re stating your view and we discussing ...
... bro evo is free speech...

Bro I don’t think you’ve done fasting long enough to see benefits and your genetics are 1% amazing nelson ... so hard to say you making an objective call that’s valid for 80%+ of evo bros...
 
bro nelson...i think fasting is good for all...especially bodybuilders...only super amazing genetics guys dont benefit from fasting (like 1%)...99% get positives from fasting

It's a complex issue and I'm willing to show how extended fasting is anti muscle growth and not especially healthy. I do believe in going hungry and not over burdening the system. You can't get lean without going hungry.

I made this introduction to promote the podcast but already, it seems like it might be too confrontational and I would rather avoid the antagonism. I didn't think it was that controversial.

Bottom line... it's not for me, but if you like fasting and it works for you, go for it.
 
It's a complex issue and I'm willing to show how extended fasting is anti muscle growth and not especially healthy. I do believe in going hungry and not over burdening the system. You can't get lean without going hungry.

I made this introduction to promote the podcast but already, it seems like it might be too confrontational and I would rather avoid the antagonism. I didn't think it was that controversial.

Bottom line... it's not for me, but if you like fasting and it works for you, go for it.


Bro valid points ... just FYI you have right to free speech on evo no matter what...

Bro now ... fasting is complex but it’s amazing for both bulking and cutting ... just most don’t know how to apply fasting correctly... though you do make some interesting points bro
 
Bro you make valid points ... you’re not confrontational... you’re stating your view and we discussing ...
... bro evo is free speech...

Bro I don’t think you’ve done fasting long enough to see benefits and your genetics are 1% amazing nelson ... so hard to say you making an objective call that’s valid for 80%+ of evo bros...

Thanks for saying so but my genetics are the furthest thing from amazing. But I know how to train and I don't let myself get out of shape.

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I'll be putting an article together addressing these points and when it's ready, I'll post a link to anyone who wants to check it out.
 
It's a complex issue and I'm willing to show how extended fasting is anti muscle growth and not especially healthy.

well you can show it on the podcast but you are dead wrong on both counts

in the blue zones they all fast and they live longer than anywhere in the world. no diabetes, no obesity, no cancer, no heart disease. they don't even know what it is. in Ikaria, Greece they fast 6 months out of the year and they don't even know what diabetes is. never heard of it. 0% rate

and your first point is so ridiculous I can blow a torpedo through it in 2 seconds with simple studies

1. when you fast your HGH skyrockets for the first 5 days of the fast and stays high throughout before gradually levelling out
2. when you fast you eat away at old muscle cells (autophagy) and then when you come off the fast you grow new fresh cells

that is why people who fast actually grow more muscle over time. I have actual testing that was done that showed on an extended fast you can grow more muscle and lose fat at the same time which is 10X more effective than eating in a deficit and crashing carbs and way more comfortable and much easier. fasting is a weapon for bodybuilding and if you fail to use it then you are leaving a huge advantage on the table.

I also have studies that show eating in a caloric deficit is not effective long term at losing fat, but fasting is. why? cause when you eat in a deficit you crash your metabolic rate and energy expenditure. when you fast you actually INCREASE metabolic rate and energy expenditure. this is why on a fast you feel super cold and you feel unlimited energy from increased adrenaline and metabolism. on my extended fast I was sleeping 2 hours less a night and had more energy during the day. my workouts were ridiculously good. when you torture yourself by eating in a huge deficit you feel like ass all day and sleep like shit. fasting is superior to crash dieting for that reason.
 
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here is the study i am referencing. a lot of guys are going to get asshurt by me posting it. it is the largest study EVER DONE. 50,000 people over years and years. and there isn't a single legit study that is out showing I am wrong on this

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16391215/

the cliff notes: we know that you can eat the same exact foods at a certain point of the day and it can have a completely different outcome. crazy huh? not what we've been taught all our lives though.
The WHI was the most ambitious, important weight loss study ever done. This enormous randomized trial involving almost 50,000 people evaluated this low-fat, low calorie approach to weight loss. Through intensive counseling, people were persuaded to reduce daily caloric intake by 342 calories and increase exercise by 10%. Calorie counters expected a weight loss of 32 pounds over a single year. This trial was expected to validate conventional nutritional advice.
But when the final results were tallied in 2006, there was only crushing disappointment. Despite good compliance, over 7 years of calorie counting led to virtually no weight loss
Not even a single pound. This study was a stunning and severe rebuke to the Caloric theory of obesity. Reducing calories did not lead to weight loss.


i posted this study on another forum and some clown got butthurt and came back with a study of 12 people which he thought would prove me wrong and he actually misread the study and proved me right again. too funny
 
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