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Thread: Milk thistle kills gains?

  1. #1
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    Milk thistle kills gains?

    I've been reading up on when to take cycle supporting supplements like milk thistle. Ive come across some very controversial opions and studies about milk thistle saying not to take it during the cycle because it blocks androgen receptors.

    Should you take milk thistle only during pct?

  2. #2
    EVO V.I.P. P0N's Avatar
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    Not aware of any such information. Any links to the studies?

  3. #3
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    https://forum.*****************/show...2030151&page=1

    There are 2 studies in this forum page, check it out

  4. #4
    EVO V.I.P. P0N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Carbon Corner View Post
    https://forum.*****************/show...2030151&page=1

    There are 2 studies in this forum page, check it out
    Domain is censored. Can you direct link the studies themselves?

  5. #5
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    Sorry didnt know, here is one I came across

    Milk Thistle: Good for Livers, Potentially Bad for Gains

    Title: Silymarin inhibits function of the androgen receptor by reducing nuclearlocalization of the receptor in the human prostate cancer cell line LNCaP.Authors: Zhu W, Zhang JS, Young CY.Source: Carcinogenesis 2001 Sep;22(9):1399-403
    Research Summary
    Agents with novel mechanisms of blocking androgen receptor (AR) function may be useful for prostate cancer prevention and therapy. Previous studies showed that silibinin (SB), the major active component of Milk Thistle, could inhibit cell proliferation of a human prostate cancer cell line by stopping the cell cycle without causing cell death. This study further demonstrates the potential molecular mechanism by which Milk Thistle acts on androgen-responsive prostate cancer cells by inhibiting function of the AR. We observed that Silymarin (SM) and SB inhibited androgen-stimulated cell proliferation as well as androgen-stimulated secretion of both prostate-specific antigen (PSA) and human glandular kallikrein (hK2).Additionally, for the first time, we show that SM and SB diminished transactivation activity of the AR. However, SM did not affect AR levels and steroid-binding ability of total AR in western blotting and ligand-binding assays. Intriguingly, we found that nuclear AR levels are significantly reduced by SM and SB in the presence of androgens. This study provides a new insight into how Milk Thistle negatively modulates androgen action in prostate cancer cells.

    Discussion

    Milk Thistle is a popular bodybuilding supplement and is currently the most well researched plant for the treatment of liver disease (with over 450 published peer review papers). Silymarin, a flavonoid extract from Milk Thistle, has been used clinically for alcoholic liver disease treatment in Europe and Asia for almost 2,000 years. Currently it?s used by bodybuilders as a protective measure for the liver when using high doses of orals.Silymarin is not water soluble and is typically administered as an encapsulated standardized extract. The absorption with oral administration is rather low, with only two to three percent being effectively taken up. The peak plasma levels after an oral dose are achieved in four to six hours. The reason this study is significant is because of the described mechanism that Milk Thistle is working in the prostate. It is showing effectiveness in treating prostate cancer because it prevents the androgen receptor from making it to the nucleus of the cell. This may be good if you are fighting cancer of the prostate, but it is bad if you are trying to get a muscle cell to grow larger.In order for testosterone to work, it must pass from the blood to the inside of a muscle cell, bind to the androgen receptor inside the cell, then travel inside the nucleus where it binds to your DNA.These researchers were able to show that Milk Thistle did not reduce the number of androgen receptors, nor did it prevent androgens (i.e., testosterone) from binding to the receptors. All it seemed to do was prevent the androgen receptor from traveling to the nucleus, and in our case, this prevents the desired effect. The androgen receptor, once bound to the androgen, must make it to the nucleus in order to increase protein synthesis.Bottom line: Use Milk Thistle if you are sure you are having liver toxicity problems. Then, only use it for a few weeks at a time. There are other herbs with tremendous hepatoprotective effects, so you might give them a try instead

  6. #6
    Moderator dylangemelli's Avatar
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    im sorry but milk thistle is not going to inhibit gains whatsoever... ive been doing this over a decade and people dont lose gains using it...

  7. #7
    Moderator Mobster's Avatar
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    I agree with Dylan. If it had any REAL WORLD difference we would have seen people not get anywhere with their cycles. That, of course, hasn't happened. There's NO MENTION whatsoever of use during a CYCLE in that study. Which is the other half of the equation surely.

    Remember this when using a study. Don't discuss MT use in this context unless you are ONLY referring to liver and prostate issues.

    Multiple record holder. British and European Grip Champion. Magazine writer. Strength Training Coach. Former supplement company owner.

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  8. #8
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    So how would you use it? During the whole cycle + PCT or only pct ?

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    I use it on both (in conjunction with other liver and organ support). DGA Organ ST and DGA Post CT are two great products that will cover all the bases.

  10. #10
    Moderator stevesmi's Avatar
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    you don't want to take support supplements within 2 hours of using your oral steroids, that is where that theory is based on.

    so take your n2guard minimum 2 hours away from when you take oral steroids

    on the flipside taking them with grapefruit juice or black pepper will make them MORE effective.
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