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Pic from first contest. Teen, at 18 in 1990

I am so confused. Im not trying to be a dick but are you OK? None of what you're saying makes any sense. Are you a convicted felon with a drug problem or a lawyer that gave up bodybuilding because there is no money or future in it? Really it doesn't matter which one you are both are really great reasons why kids should not be using gear.

That's still true.
 
He looks like a gloriously youthful person who is so visually striking that if you saw him in person, you'd be blown away. His features appear to be almost perfectly symmetrical and proportional. He's a white man with pale blue/green eyes and light flawless skin. He's masculine in terms of his facial structure and physical build. The only flaw I see is that he is too perfect, which sometimes translates to being pretty...a term best saved for females.

Being handsome is great. But, it isn't enough. What else does he have going on? Does he have substance? Is he intelligent? Is he interesting? Does he have a good sense of humor? Is he compassionate? Is he romantic? Is he a winner? Is he sexual?

I've met people who were so beautiful or handsome that at first that's all you saw about them. Once they started talking and you looked deeper, you were let down because you realized their good looks were all there was positive about them. They were just a beautiful storefront on an outhouse. You cannot judge a book by its cover.

For his sake, I hope he's got more going for himself than just how well he photographs.
 
He looks like a gloriously youthful person who is so visually striking that if you saw him in person, you'd be blown away. His features appear to be almost perfectly symmetrical and proportional. He's a white man with pale blue/green eyes and light flawless skin. He's masculine in terms of his facial structure and physical build. The only flaw I see is that he is too perfect, which sometimes translates to being pretty...a term best saved for females.

Being handsome is great. But, it isn't enough. What else does he have going on? Does he have substance? Is he intelligent? Is he interesting? Does he have a good sense of humor? Is he compassionate? Is he romantic? Is he a winner? Is he sexual?

I've met people who were so beautiful or handsome that at first that's all you saw about them. Once they started talking and you looked deeper, you were let down because you realized their good looks were all there was positive about them. They were just a beautiful storefront on an outhouse. You cannot judge a book by its cover.

For his sake, I hope he's got more going for himself than just how well he photographs.

what movie is that from lol?

too well written to be a hallmark or lifetime movie.
 
He confusing part refers to the buddy going to jail which then seemed to become you (the 'he' and me thing). Anyway...

Genetics, maturity and education is the why 25.

Most men (most roid users are male) don't fully mentally mature until 25-30. Physically it varies from the guys with 'taches at 13 to the asexual guys at 18+. Now take most gym users today - they want to be on gear and stimmed to fuck about 3 weeks after finding a gym. Add to that ZERO knowledge on gear. A career (like yours) and a 'do or die' attitude that changes five minutes are finding THE girl when... cue shock.. their balls don't work and they become desperate for a fix (see the growth in IVF cos of people leaving it too late, low sperm levels and drug use inc gear) and they are SOME of the reasons we say 'not yet'.
I'm sorry man but you really know nothing about me and are making assumptions based on stereotypes.
I was addressing the guys post about risking going to prison. I was never in that situation. I told you how it would go down in the state I live in.
Come on, I'm not even going to say what University my undergrad degree is from or my law degree. It will do no good you'll find a way, some way to discredit it because that's how you make you feel better about yourself.
 
I don't care how genetically gifted someone is. I don't not recommend anyone using steroids until they are over 25 years old.
And give me your reasons? Yes if it's a guy just stepping in the gym I agree but what if he's been training from 18. Tell me why and please tell me at what age it is acceptable. 30, 35, 40?
 
Are we going to get to the bottom of this or not ???? Lol , dude clearly started off saying it was someone else !!! Now it’s himself ???? Give us an answer or I call the whole story all bullshit !!!
You say I can't understand things. I never said it was someone else's picture or that I was referring to myself when explain the legal aspects of getting caught with steroids. I'm done I can not deal with stupidity.
 
He looks like a gloriously youthful person who is so visually striking that if you saw him in person, you'd be blown away. His features appear to be almost perfectly symmetrical and proportional. He's a white man with pale blue/green eyes and light flawless skin. He's masculine in terms of his facial structure and physical build. The only flaw I see is that he is too perfect, which sometimes translates to being pretty...a term best saved for females.

Being handsome is great. But, it isn't enough. What else does he have going on? Does he have substance? Is he intelligent? Is he interesting? Does he have a good sense of humor? Is he compassionate? Is he romantic? Is he a winner? Is he sexual?

I've met people who were so beautiful or handsome that at first that's all you saw about them. Once they started talking and you looked deeper, you were let down because you realized their good looks were all there was positive about them. They were just a beautiful storefront on an outhouse. You cannot judge a book by its cover.

For his sake, I hope he's got more going for himself than just how well he photographs.
Did you even read this thread at all? I'm not repeating myself but bodybuilding was a very small part of my total life. Just read and you'll get your answers.
 
And give me your reasons? Yes if it's a guy just stepping in the gym I agree but what if he's been training from 18. Tell me why and please tell me at what age it is acceptable. 30, 35, 40?
Because you're endocrine system is not fully developed and testosterone levels already at a lifetime high. 25 and over I recommend it's ok to cycle but over 30 is even better.
 
I think I just figured out all the confusion. I did not write the first few words I meant to in my original post. I came in second the guy who won was the one I was saying was unbelievable and ruined his life with drugs and probably a very good pro bodybuilding career. I wasn't talking about myself he crushed me. He is clean now but he's also almost 48 and he wasted a lot of his life.
I suppose the confusion was my fault I should have reread it before posting it. Sorry.
 
Because you're endocrine system is not fully developed and testosterone levels already at a lifetime high. 25 and over I recommend it's ok to cycle but over 30 is even better.
I understand what you're saying and from purely a heath perspective you are correct.
Butu, what if your dream is to be a pro bodybuilder and you actually have the structure and genetics for it. At that point, yes, you know you are putting your health at risk but it's a chance you are willing to take to attempt to reach your goals. You have to start in your early 20's to have a shot at all.
What I don't agree with are guys who just don't have it structurally or have the genetics. If you just don't have the body for it you can take all the drugs and train like an animal you're still never doing well even on a national level and I doubt even that. So, these people are taking a chance with no hope of accomplishing anything. They would be better off waiting or at least using very low doses.
 
For example watch this shortink. It's a kid who was training at the gym I started at when a joined at 17. Talk about perfect genetics, he is 21 in this video and had already won the teen nationals, overall at the NJ state, the overall at the Jr. USA, and his class at the USA. He would have, no doubt, been Mr. Olympia one day but he got in a car accident that ruptured his spleen and caused all types of problems he had to stop competing at 21. If you were him would you wait?

https://youtu.be/KLXJ2qwEGqo
 
There are a number of guys who would be considered some of the best of all time waited until after 25 to start. Ronnie Coleman, Kai Green, Phil Heath was probably pretty close to 25 too. But what you're talking about is such a small percentage of the population. The fact of the matter is that 99 out of 100 of the kids that are coming to this site asking for cycle advice are not the next Jay Cutler, most of them have no interest in even competing. They are looking for a shortcut looking good on spring break, and they come with all the misconceptions that come with. I have asked myself more than once, when these kids come here with terribly planned cycles and the advice is always you're to young don't do it, is this really the best advice knowing what he will end up doing is the poorly planned cycle based on bullshit bro science. But ultimately if begging these kids not to do it and not condoning it stops one kid from fucking himself up its worth it. The kids that are really serious about competing are not coming to an Internet forum for gear advise. they are paying one of the 100's of guru's out there that have no problem putting an 18 year old on tren and anadrol. its unconscionable if you ask me but its why no one on this site will condone the use and why I like coming here.
 
I understand what you're saying and from purely a heath perspective you are correct.
Butu, what if your dream is to be a pro bodybuilder and you actually have the structure and genetics for it. At that point, yes, you know you are putting your health at risk but it's a chance you are willing to take to attempt to reach your goals. You have to start in your early 20's to have a shot at all.
What I don't agree with are guys who just don't have it structurally or have the genetics. If you just don't have the body for it you can take all the drugs and train like an animal you're still never doing well even on a national level and I doubt even that. So, these people are taking a chance with no hope of accomplishing anything. They would be better off waiting or at least using very low doses.

How many forum members fall into the great genetics category?
 
99% of guys on this forum are just gym rats. some of us have histories in some local shows just for fun, or powerlifting meets, or endurance races, or former high school or college sports, etc. but today we are just gym rats who like to lift and use steroids here and there just to give us a little boost.

many former pro athletes that made millions end up never playing their sport again and you can find them doing things like boating, golfing, or fishing and end up opening a business like a restaurant or get into marketing brands etc. Michael Jordan retired from basketball then came back, then retired again. went and ran a NBA team as their GM and ran them into the ground. he had a gift for PLAYING basketball, but when it came to drafting, signing players, hiring a coach, etc. he was awful.

so yes there is a skill and genetic element to everything in life. most NFL head coaches never played pro football. in fact next week in the Super bowl the 2 head coaches took their team to the super bowl didn't play a lick of pro football. in fact they rode the bench playing at very small colleges. Kyle Shanahan caught a shopping 14 passes his entire college career as a WR. he sucked as a player but is a damn good head coach.

the big problem we see today in bodybuilding is people think that because someone has a bodybuilder body that they know what they are talking about so they overly trust them. some of these guys do. I mean Arnold was actually a very intelligent guy who had more knowledge than anyone. but others not so much. it is the example of the juiced up meathead personal trainer at the gym training an obese 50 year old woman and having her do 30 minutes of cardio and 20 sets of ab crunches. he doesn't grasp the fact that just because that works for him that it won't work for her because he never was fat. he was born a jock and had an 8 pack in middle school. he never had to worry about being fat even though he ate mcdonalds everyday. Dave Palumbo is famous for saying he ate big macs ahead of shows and admits he could get away with it thanks to his genetics.
 
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