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Thread: Some Vets Might Know What I'm Talking About

  1. #1
    V.I.P. - Author nelson montana's Avatar
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    Some Vets Might Know What I'm Talking About

    The longer you do something , the better you get at it. And along the way you continue to learn and understand on a deeper level. After a while you can analyze complex theories and extrapolate intricacies beyond the average comprehension. This is the case with any endeavour. Iím sure a lot of people might agree with this concerning their profession. And itís certainly the case with bodybuilding -- from training, to diet, to supplementation, to drug use.

    And then when you get REALLY advanced, something interesting kicks in. Suddenly, instead of embracing all the complexities, you actually begin to simplify. You donít have to run the gamut of all the ins and outs. You know what works -- and thatís what you directly go to.

    I believe Iíve done that with the various aspects of bodybuilding. I know what exercises work best and what formulas work best. Iíve learned that all the diet calculations and partitioning tactics are just gimmicks and in the end, the body doesnít give a shit about any of that stuff.

    In the case of steroids, itís actually pretty straight forward. When you come right down to it, ALL steroids are a combination of anabolic and androgenic characteristics. Some more of one than the other. Thatís why using more than two compounds is just a redundancy.

    Now some may say that certain compounds have special qualities. And thatís true. For example, nothing does what Tren does. But for me and to anyone who I would coach, I would never recommend it simply for the fact that it not only does not enhance health, it damages it. Sure, youíll LOOK good. For a while. But no one can convince me that night sweats, anxiety, shortness of breath , coughing and increased hypertension is a good thing.

    Equipoise is considered ďmildĒ but itís far more kidney toxic than people realize.

    Iíve said this for the last 20 years and Iíll repeat it. With the exception of Winstrol, veterinarian drugs are not approved for human use for a reason.

    There are also some steroids that do the job of creating anabolism and increased androgenic qualities better than others. So why use the ones that donít do it as well?

    Most of these principles donít change, regardless of the fashions that come and go. But the last few years there have been some interesting developments. And thatís something we can discuss in length. One is peptides. I found them fascinating and did quite a bit of research and quite a bit of experimenting. And my ďshortĒ overview is unfortunately, not positive. They fall under the ďtoo many side effects to make them worth it.Ē To me. Iíll be willing to discuss.

    Iíve already made my statements that I am not a fan of SARMS. Granted, after the first few entries I kinda gave up on them. I know thereís always a latest and greatest new version and I canít elaborate in detail with every one of them but in general, the very principle is one that I oppose. That too is up for debate.

    What I find most interesting is the analogues that are not androgen modulators, so technically, they are not SARMS. Iíll admit Iím a little late to the party on these because I considered them more of a curiosity than a viable choice and being generally cautious. There were also warnings of toxicity (with some) I held back to wait for feedback. Now itís time to get some personal experience with those I feel are worthy.

    But, back to steroids -- at the end of the day, they are what they are. A variant of testosterone. And I find myself restricted in giving advice on cycles , because frankly, from studying the effects for the last quarter century, I know what I know and I like what I like. There are a handful worth taking and a bunch Iíd avoid. So concocting elaborate cycles with multiple compounds, to me, is frankly...kinda bullshit.

    Anyway, thatís how I see it.

    Opinions may vary.
    Backstage at the 2013 NPC Championships. 59 years old.

  2. #2
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    I wouldn't call myself a vet just yet when it comes to ped use, but I've formulated a few opinions on it from the cycles I've done and the few honest sources of information I've chanced to come across.

    99% of the information being spouted across all arenas of online media are wrong or misinformation when it comes to ped use. That number was pulled out of my backside.

    Testosterone is the king of hormones. If a guy's goal is to get huge or super strong, then his best option is to run high test for periods of time. Nobody is getting flicking yoked on 500mgs test. As is the case with anything, there is a dose dependent relationship between the amount of test taken, and the size and strength of the person. This is OLD news, and has been known for several decades, but seems to be guarded by gatekeepers. Anyone telling you that testosterone doesn't become more effective the higher the dose you are using - is either lying, or doesn't know because they've never gone over 500-750mgs per week.

    I don't advocated everyone run 1-3 grams of test a week, but if you want to be HUGE, test alone can do it, provided you take enough of it, train hard, eat big, and get adequate sleep.

    Testosterone doesn't really have diminishing returns, and the side effects of high dose test are dependent on how much a converter of estrogen the person is, how clean their diet is, and their overall size relative to the dose they are using. 500-750mg is plenty if your goal is to be a muscular, hard 200lbs or under(just rough bodyweight range, give or take a few pounds), but that's isn't huge by any means. A man of 5'9" at 200lbs with some abdominals showing will look fantastic, but that isn't swole. The same man at 225-240lbs with similar conditioning will be swole- but he ain't getting there on 500-750mgs of test alone.

    Testosterone increases in effectiveness the more you take of it. The more you take, the bigger, stronger, and leaner you "can" become, provided diet, training, and rest are on point. If this weren't true, then you wouldn't have blood results like Dallas Mccarver's. Dose response relationship.

    Some guys can't tolerate really high levels of androgens in their system, so for them it makes sense to use other anabolics with less androgenicity than test.

    Using multiple compounds certainly has it's place, and one's own experience with gear does not necessarily translate to anothers. I can run 1000mgs test a week using roughly .175-.200mcg of Arimidex per week. I have to use liquid arimidex because taking even .250mcg at once will bottom out my estrogen- so for me, Testosterone is the easy winner for me - minimal and easily controlled sides, with dose scaling up depending on how big and lean I want to be. But I barely half to glance at a bottle of deca and my nips get sensitive. Even 50-75mgs per week will cause nipple sensitivity on me - even while running cabergoline, b6 etc.

    Each person needs to figure out what their body responds best to, and make those their maintains, but different steroids so produce differing cosmetic effects, so stacking has value, though to me, stacking mostly comes into play when cutting and going for a certain look.

    If just getting bigger and stronger, most guys don't need more than 1-2 compounds with the dose required to produce the results they want.

  3. #3
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    I am not a Sarms fan either. I tried 3 different ones before I gave up. All I got from them were side effects and no gains.
    GW gave me the same achy muscles I get when I was tried on a few different statins. And the last time I tried GW I bought it from the trusted board source, so it should have been the best of the ones I tried, but within 2 days I was hurting all over like I taken a statin.

  4. #4
    Staff Writer LevButlerov's Avatar
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    Nelson, you make some valid points but I dont agree with the flow of the ideas. Just because anabolic steroids have been around for a long time, doesn't mean they are the end. It's like gasoline powered cars were around for a hundred years and now everyone switching to electric cars and in 50 years it will be mostly Tesla and electric cars all around. I think you have all the rights in the world to give us your view and opinion, yet it seems you're taking a side of an issue just to take it, no science no real anecdotal evidence just "my view" and "put fingers in my ears" situation.
    Lev Butlerov - Evolutionary.org Staff Author

  5. #5
    EVO V.I.P. BodyMonster34's Avatar
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    Bro what you saying not true. EQ and tren originally not vet drugs. CIBA made EQ human grade 4 30 years. Why do you keep lying and saying they vet drugs? They been around human grade for longer then other steroids you like to push even primo

  6. #6
    V.I.P. - Author nelson montana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyMonster34 View Post
    Bro what you saying not true. EQ and tren originally not vet drugs. CIBA made EQ human grade 4 30 years. Why do you keep lying and saying they vet drugs? They been around human grade for longer then other steroids you like to push even primo
    I know in their original form they were designed for humans but regulated to vet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LevButlerov View Post
    Nelson, you make some valid points but I dont agree with the flow of the ideas. Just because anabolic steroids have been around for a long time, doesn't mean they are the end. It's like gasoline powered cars were around for a hundred years and now everyone switching to electric cars and in 50 years it will be mostly Tesla and electric cars all around. I think you have all the rights in the world to give us your view and opinion, yet it seems you're taking a side of an issue just to take it, no science no real anecdotal evidence just "my view" and "put fingers in my ears" situation.
    Well, I understand you're going to try and dismiss whatever I say, but that was lame. Comparing testosterone from 1990 to testosterone in 2021 is not analogous to a gas engine and an electric car. It's the same drug and does the same thing. And why is it that "my view" is sticking my fingers in my ears and yet YOUR view is valid? What have you done that makes you so important? But of course, you have every right in the world to think you know what you're talking about.
    Backstage at the 2013 NPC Championships. 59 years old.

  7. #7
    EVO V.I.P. BodyMonster34's Avatar
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    bro they were designed for humans for 30+ years. banned cause government against their use as PED's, then brought back for vet. but that a lame reason to not want to use them. Government also banned primo too does that mean it no good ? Also you got any hard proof that EQ any worse on kidneys then other steroids or is that just another example of you never using a steroid and just making random guesses? Real talk bro'cause I love EQ and Tren and you bashing them out of ignorance without any experience

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    also Lev has point bro. yes all steroids come from test, but they were improved. example some aromatize less or none at all, that an example of improvement. others more androgenic, others more anabolic. others more safe, others less sides. if you saying that we should just use test every cycle then good luck with that. you never gonna win any powerlifting competition or bodybuilding show with that mentality of just using test every cycle. you will get blown out of water. you gotta stack that shit so there synergy, nobody gonna place at Mr. O just using some test and primo cmon bro what you smoking tonite?

  8. #8
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    Dude, you can get fricking huge on testosterone alone.

    For competition alot of pros switch to short Ester prop and even let it clear out to remove the last traces of water retention they have.

    Test is best. Your body knows exactly what it is and how to use it. There seems to be this almost anti-testosterone mentality which is prevalent across all forms of media- I'm specifically referring to forums and YouTube. That's because guys are parroting the misinformation about test That's been going on for a long time. Powerlifters love testosterone, and so do bodybuilders. The top 4 steroids for powerlifting is testosterone (the more the merrier), anadrol, dbol, and anavar.

    You train hard, eat big, and get adequate rest you can get JACKED on test alone, but like anything there's a dosage threshold you have to pass. You aren't getting the full power of testosterone on 500-750mgs per week. Guys that know what they're talking about know you're in the 1-1.5grams per week range of test- ran over time, to get B I G. To get in the monster territory you're in the 2-3 grams a week range on test alone.

    The primary reason for stacking peds is for their aesthetic effects and secondary effects - not necessarily for growth.

    If you take 1500mg test a week you are going to grow like a weed. As far as injectable go, you're going to be hard pressed to beat test for sheer size and strength gains "over time", because contrary to so much bullsh*t being spewed, test is not toxic to your body, and is the single safest compound that can be run in high dosages for longer periods of time.

    Sure, there are more powerful hormones like trenbolone, anadrol, dbol, but the only one of those I'd feel cool running for 8-10 weeks more than once a year is low dose dianabol at 20-30mg ed for 8-10. The others are too toxic imo. I won't even touch anadrol. Tren I like alot, but it has it's share of side effects, which I'm only willing to put up with maybe once a year.

    I disagree with Nelson about some things like short cycles and dosages, but he's right in so far as not overcomplicating things.

    The average guy can look fantastic using the following combos:

    1. Test and tren.
    2. Test and winstrol.
    3. Test and anavar.

    Unless a guy is seriously trying to compete in open bodybuilding, he probably doesn't need more than test and an oral that produces the cosmetic effect he wants.

    Eq is pointless to me. I'd rather run 1000mgs test vs 500 test + 500 eq. Guarantee I'd grow more from the straight test.

    Primobolan is pointless to me for building up, but I absolutely would use as a little polish to a well conditioned physique in a bodybuilder trt+ type of situation, or for stepping on stage.

    I'd only use deca for joint health, and even then I'd rather run mk-677 for that.

    A guy could blast a couple of super high dose cycles a year, with multiple compounds at 12-16 weeks, or blast 1-1.5grams test literally year round with gh or mk-677. I guarantee the test guy will be bigger and stronger and healthier

  9. #9
    V.I.P. - Author nelson montana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyMonster34 View Post
    bro they were designed for humans for 30+ years. banned cause government against their use as PED's, then brought back for vet. but that a lame reason to not want to use them. Government also banned primo too does that mean it no good ? Also you got any hard proof that EQ any worse on kidneys then other steroids or is that just another example of you never using a steroid and just making random guesses? Real talk bro'cause I love EQ and Tren and you bashing them out of ignorance without any experience

    - - - Updated - - -

    also Lev has point bro. yes all steroids come from test, but they were improved. example some aromatize less or none at all, that an example of improvement. others more androgenic, others more anabolic. others more safe, others less sides. if you saying that we should just use test every cycle then good luck with that. you never gonna win any powerlifting competition or bodybuilding show with that mentality of just using test every cycle. you will get blown out of water. you gotta stack that shit so there synergy, nobody gonna place at Mr. O just using some test and primo cmon bro what you smoking tonite?
    You seem so confused that I don't even have the time to explain it all.
    Backstage at the 2013 NPC Championships. 59 years old.

  10. #10
    Moderator Mobster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevButlerov View Post
    Nelson, you make some valid points but I dont agree with the flow of the ideas. Just because anabolic steroids have been around for a long time, doesn't mean they are the end. It's like gasoline powered cars were around for a hundred years and now everyone switching to electric cars and in 50 years it will be mostly Tesla and electric cars all around. I think you have all the rights in the world to give us your view and opinion, yet it seems you're taking a side of an issue just to take it, no science no real anecdotal evidence just "my view" and "put fingers in my ears" situation.
    But nothing new has been created in steroids for a long time. Their effects haven't changed.

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