Approved Log A Fools Testosterone, Primobolan, HGH Cut-Recomp Cycle Log

[Formulate_Infinity]

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, page 42.

Hello! First, some stats and history about me: 45 years old, a year of consistent lifting (a couple decades of inconsistent lifting). Lost 70lbs over the last year. Started at 300lbs over 45% bf and now am at 233 and about 19-20% (last DEXA says 17.5… but I think that’s fake news… pics and DEXA results to follow). Been on TRT for six months. Have completed one mini cycle of 400 test 200 primo to test the waters. Making a shift in my current cycle as is explained more below.

• The initial mini-cycle

I just finished a short stint with… Tren… and 250 test and 140 primo (for E2 control). Started Tren Ace at 25mg a day for a week and then moved up to gauge tolerance. Ended up at 350 a week and I have to say, I get why people love the stuff. I also didn’t have many of the sides you hear about, but I also wasn’t on it for very long. Sleep took a hit, cardio capacity tanked, and HDL dropped through the floor even with the fairly aggressive supplement/medication stack I put in place in an attempt at mitigating the damage. Libido also went nuts. I have to say, even in the four-ish weeks I ran it, size and strength went up, fat went down, and scale didn’t budge. I have another DEXA scheduled next week, which should give me some additional insights.

• The Goal and Plan

Real talk - I have an epic beach vacation starting in 9 weeks. For the first time ever, I have a chance at something approaching abs for my beach vacation. They will be mine, oh yes, they will be mine. So, that’s my deadline and it will happen.

• Math and physics are the true enemies.

My TDEE is about 3,000. And my goal is 12% body fat. Based on the math I had ChatGPT do for me, I need to lose 20lbs to hit 12% body fat assuming I am currently 20% body fat. To lose 20lbs, I need to have a deficit of 70,000 calories over the next 9 weeks, which comes out to ~7,700 calorie deficit per week or ~1,100 per day, which is pretty aggressive. Doable, but aggressive. What is certain is that it a near impossibility that I would gain much if any muscle on that steep of a daily deficit. Which got me thinking, is there a better way?

• Transitioning to a more rational approach (I hope).

So, I actually seriously considered running Tren at a 1,100kcal deficit and hope the recomp gods smiled on me until I came across this amazing thread:

Thread 'Why fasting helps you live longer, helps build more muscle. and my prolong fast LOG' By stevesmi

This got me thinking, could I design a fairly aggressive cut that also had the potential to allow me to add some muscle mass? So, my idea is to run two 36ish hour fasts a week, which would do most of the caloric deficit work for the week allowing me to eat at a modest deficit on my eating days. The fasting days would be my active rest days.

Now, enter the math again (I’m so sorry). Assuming my TDEE is 3000, then I get to a 6,000kcal deficit per week just by fasting two days. That means I would only need a 2,700 calorie deficit the remaining days, which comes out to ~500kcal deficit the other 5 days a week.

Given that math, the schedule will look something like the following:

Monday - 500kcal below maintenance (first meal 5:30am);

Tuesday - 500kcal below maintenance (last meal at 7pm);

Wednesday - Fast (active rest);

Thursday - 500kcal below maintenance (first meal 5:30am);

Friday - 500kcal below maintenance (last meal 7pm);

Saturday - Fast (active rest).

M, T, Th, Fr, Su, are lifting days. Z2 cardio three days a week and minimum 12k steps everyday.

• Proposed Cut Cycle

500 Test E per week (pinned EOD);

300 Primo E per week (pinned EOD);

25mg Pharma Anavar per day (12.5 AM and PM);

300IU HCG 3X a week;

2 IU HGH a day before bed.

I considered continuing running a lower dose Tren (~150 a week) instead of Var for its nutrient partitioning/recomp magic but I also understand that Tren and fasting do not mix. Open to anyone’s thoughts on this.

Other items on hand:

Mast - but greatly prefer primo unless the consensus goes the other way significantly.

T3 - Considering 25mcg a day

Cardarine - Considering 10mg a day

• Ancillaries/Supplements/medications:

Things I have on hand just in case:

AI (primo does the work of E2 control for me); and

Nolvadex (haven’t ever needed it, but when you do, you do).

My medications and supplements are divided into a four time a day schedule AM (pre-workout), Lunch, Dinner, PM (pre-bed).

AM:

5mg Tadalafil;

100mg P5P (may discontinue or go EOD if no Tren);

5,000 IU Vitamin D;

NAD+ (100mg Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride);

Green Tea Extract.

Lunch:

1,000mg NAC;

100mg CoQ10

1g Fish Oil

Multivitamin

20mg Telmisartan (for both BP and longevity purposes)

500mg Metformin (for insulin control and longevity purposes)

Dinner:

500mg TUDCA

1g Fish Oil

500mg Niacin

500mg Metformin

1g Citrus Bergamot

Injectable Glutathione 100mg (5 on 2 off)

PM:

5mg rosuvastatin

Gorilla Dream

25mg DHEA

5mg Pregnenalone

As needed:

CBD and Ashwaganda for any anxiety or overstimulated issues;

25m Hydroxyzine for sleep management

Would be interested in seeing what I can get rid of from the above if I went N2Guard as everyone on here recommends it). I value control, but I also value simplicity.

Diet:

Maintenance calories ~3,000

Maintenance macros: ~220p, 350c, 65f

Sample day of eating/schedule:

5:00am - Wake up

5:30am - 3X coffee with 1x tsp half and half per coffee; 1/2 cup rolled oats in almond milk (overnight oats), 1 tbsp chia seeds, either 200g of 0% Fage Greek yogurt or casein protein shake. Pin AAS.

6:45am - 30 minute walk with wife/dog

8:00am - ~60 minute workout (PPL 5x a week), intra workout shake (two scoops whey, 2 tbps maple syrup) - drink 1/2 during workout, finish post workout.

9:30am - work

10:30 am - chicken breast, farro or rice, vege (for all meals my go to sauces are A1, chalula, siracha, soy sauce, or mustard)

12pm - lunch (slightly bigger version of 10:30 meal). Sometimes this becomes a half cheat meal due to work but I still hit my overall macros-just make adjustments elsewhere.

2pm - snack (protein bar/protein chips/small 100kcal bag of jerky - my one big non “clean” indulgence).

6pm - dinner (same as the above meals)

8pm - casein shake if I need the protein macros still. If not, skip.

9:30pm - Pin HGH

10pm ish - sleep.

——

Tracking - I have been getting DEXA scans once a month and will post the last three here (first two pre-cycle, third one was 2 weeks into low Tren mini-cycle).

I will post the following as I go:

Heavily redacted progress pics;
Food journal and meal pics; and
Redacted DEXA scans from end of December, end of January, end of Feb, end of March, and (soon) end of April, May, and June.

Thanks in advance for reading (or skimming) this wall of text. Happy to hear any constructive comments folks have.

 

[LevButlerov]

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, page 42.

Hello! First, some stats and history about me: 45 years old, a year of consistent lifting (a couple decades of inconsistent lifting). Lost 70lbs over the last year. Started at 300lbs over 45% bf and now am at 233 and about 19-20% (last DEXA says 17.5… but I think that’s fake news… pics and DEXA results to follow). Been on TRT for six months. Have completed one mini cycle of 400 test 200 primo to test the waters. Making a shift in my current cycle as is explained more below.

• The initial mini-cycle

I just finished a short stint with… Tren… and 250 test and 140 primo (for E2 control). Started Tren Ace at 25mg a day for a week and then moved up to gauge tolerance. Ended up at 350 a week and I have to say, I get why people love the stuff. I also didn’t have many of the sides you hear about, but I also wasn’t on it for very long. Sleep took a hit, cardio capacity tanked, and HDL dropped through the floor even with the fairly aggressive supplement/medication stack I put in place in an attempt at mitigating the damage. Libido also went nuts. I have to say, even in the four-ish weeks I ran it, size and strength went up, fat went down, and scale didn’t budge. I have another DEXA scheduled next week, which should give me some additional insights.

• The Goal and Plan

Real talk - I have an epic beach vacation starting in 9 weeks. For the first time ever, I have a chance at something approaching abs for my beach vacation. They will be mine, oh yes, they will be mine. So, that’s my deadline and it will happen.

• Math and physics are the true enemies.

My TDEE is about 3,000. And my goal is 12% body fat. Based on the math I had ChatGPT do for me, I need to lose 20lbs to hit 12% body fat assuming I am currently 20% body fat. To lose 20lbs, I need to have a deficit of 70,000 calories over the next 9 weeks, which comes out to ~7,700 calorie deficit per week or ~1,100 per day, which is pretty aggressive. Doable, but aggressive. What is certain is that it a near impossibility that I would gain much if any muscle on that steep of a daily deficit. Which got me thinking, is there a better way?

• Transitioning to a more rational approach (I hope).

So, I actually seriously considered running Tren at a 1,100kcal deficit and hope the recomp gods smiled on me until I came across this amazing thread:

Thread 'Why fasting helps you live longer, helps build more muscle. and my prolong fast LOG' By stevesmi

This got me thinking, could I design a fairly aggressive cut that also had the potential to allow me to add some muscle mass? So, my idea is to run two 36ish hour fasts a week, which would do most of the caloric deficit work for the week allowing me to eat at a modest deficit on my eating days. The fasting days would be my active rest days.

Now, enter the math again (I’m so sorry). Assuming my TDEE is 3000, then I get to a 6,000kcal deficit per week just by fasting two days. That means I would only need a 2,700 calorie deficit the remaining days, which comes out to ~500kcal deficit the other 5 days a week.

Given that math, the schedule will look something like the following:

Monday - 500kcal below maintenance (first meal 5:30am);

Tuesday - 500kcal below maintenance (last meal at 7pm);

Wednesday - Fast (active rest);

Thursday - 500kcal below maintenance (first meal 5:30am);

Friday - 500kcal below maintenance (last meal 7pm);

Saturday - Fast (active rest).

M, T, Th, Fr, Su, are lifting days. Z2 cardio three days a week and minimum 12k steps everyday.

• Proposed Cut Cycle

500 Test E per week (pinned EOD);

300 Primo E per week (pinned EOD);

25mg Pharma Anavar per day (12.5 AM and PM);

300IU HCG 3X a week;

2 IU HGH a day before bed.

I considered continuing running a lower dose Tren (~150 a week) instead of Var for its nutrient partitioning/recomp magic but I also understand that Tren and fasting do not mix. Open to anyone’s thoughts on this.

Other items on hand:

Mast - but greatly prefer primo unless the consensus goes the other way significantly.

T3 - Considering 25mcg a day

Cardarine - Considering 10mg a day

• Ancillaries/Supplements/medications:

Things I have on hand just in case:

AI (primo does the work of E2 control for me); and

Nolvadex (haven’t ever needed it, but when you do, you do).

My medications and supplements are divided into a four time a day schedule AM (pre-workout), Lunch, Dinner, PM (pre-bed).

AM:

5mg Tadalafil;

100mg P5P (may discontinue or go EOD if no Tren);

5,000 IU Vitamin D;

NAD+ (100mg Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride);

Green Tea Extract.

Lunch:

1,000mg NAC;

100mg CoQ10

1g Fish Oil

Multivitamin

20mg Telmisartan (for both BP and longevity purposes)

500mg Metformin (for insulin control and longevity purposes)

Dinner:

500mg TUDCA

1g Fish Oil

500mg Niacin

500mg Metformin

1g Citrus Bergamot

Injectable Glutathione 100mg (5 on 2 off)

PM:

5mg rosuvastatin

Gorilla Dream

25mg DHEA

5mg Pregnenalone

As needed:

CBD and Ashwaganda for any anxiety or overstimulated issues;

25m Hydroxyzine for sleep management

Would be interested in seeing what I can get rid of from the above if I went N2Guard as everyone on here recommends it). I value control, but I also value simplicity.

Diet:

Maintenance calories ~3,000

Maintenance macros: ~220p, 350c, 65f

Sample day of eating/schedule:

5:00am - Wake up

5:30am - 3X coffee with 1x tsp half and half per coffee; 1/2 cup rolled oats in almond milk (overnight oats), 1 tbsp chia seeds, either 200g of 0% Fage Greek yogurt or casein protein shake. Pin AAS.

6:45am - 30 minute walk with wife/dog

8:00am - ~60 minute workout (PPL 5x a week), intra workout shake (two scoops whey, 2 tbps maple syrup) - drink 1/2 during workout, finish post workout.

9:30am - work

10:30 am - chicken breast, farro or rice, vege (for all meals my go to sauces are A1, chalula, siracha, soy sauce, or mustard)

12pm - lunch (slightly bigger version of 10:30 meal). Sometimes this becomes a half cheat meal due to work but I still hit my overall macros-just make adjustments elsewhere.

2pm - snack (protein bar/protein chips/small 100kcal bag of jerky - my one big non “clean” indulgence).

6pm - dinner (same as the above meals)

8pm - casein shake if I need the protein macros still. If not, skip.

9:30pm - Pin HGH

10pm ish - sleep.

——

Tracking - I have been getting DEXA scans once a month and will post the last three here (first two pre-cycle, third one was 2 weeks into low Tren mini-cycle).

I will post the following as I go:

Heavily redacted progress pics;
Food journal and meal pics; and
Redacted DEXA scans from end of December, end of January, end of Feb, end of March, and (soon) end of April, May, and June.

Thanks in advance for reading (or skimming) this wall of text. Happy to hear any constructive comments folks have.

@Formulate_Infinity welcome to the EVO family (Evolutionary.org family). Very happy you posted this detailed log.

I want to point out that there is no fools on EVO, no you not anyone else and not even the most new members, why? because we were all newbies at some point and knew nothing. EVO family is all about love and support, so we are here to help you no matter the path you choose bro
And also I didnt skim, I read your whole thread, and your math is good on BMR and deficits but it doesn't work like that in real life, real life is more complex. I would start by cutting T3 and HCG out of any cycle, no need iMO and you can drop your testosterone to 300mgs as well.

this is a great start, I'm waiting for your food journal and meal pics
would like to see more about training and cardio as you go, minimum throw up machine you use pics

please keep us updated and stay very strong

 

[stevesmi]

Nice start to this log and I love your humility

congrats on making some big changes now let's keep it going I'm looking forward to seeing your transformation pictures a lot of people will be reading this who were in your situation before and who are very down on themselves and you're gonna help them

 

[Formulate_Infinity]

Thank you for the very encouraging words everyone! It’s really a testament to this community and what it’s all about. I hope to post the transformation pics and DEXA scans to date this evening. And the logs etc will start in earnest tomorrow.

 

[Mobster]

That 42 reference lol. I might have to dig mine out

 

[e2]

that's good you should include some quotes
some motivating quotes to push people

 

[2Thick]

I'm happy to see your motivated for this
and yes we are a good Community

 

[Vadim Fedorov]

we are all about positivity on here
it definitely spreads like wildfire once you start

 

[Wootoom]

good job on the changes to your physique
now make sure that you push things even further

 

[JasonPriest]

there is still a lot of improvements that can be done to your diet
but I will say that so far it looks good

 

[BodyMonster34]

bro post some before pictures as well
I like my man big so I want to see

 

[Quadsweep]

keep up the good work Buddy
we love to hear success stories

 

[StevenDarwinMD]

APPROVED LOG

 

[Ulter]

thanks for the positive attitude
if you keep that attitude you will achieve your dreams

 

[chesty]

we got some high hopes for you
I think you'll end up with some great gains

 

[ROIDDERS]

nice job my man we are proud of you
can't wait to see your pictures

 

[ceo]

Bros pictures important so we can see where you're at now
and see where you can go in the future

 

[Noah Wixx]

500 test on a cut I'd be concerned with potential water weight gain just be mindful of that, besides that concern it looks good

 

[Formulate_Infinity]

“A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.” - John A. Shedd

Good morning. Sorry for the delay and thank you all again for the very warm welcome!

I have attached some pics and DEXA results. For privacy reasons, you get my trunk alone. I wish I could show more, but the internet is forever and I feel like I’m out on a bit of a limb as it is. I may be able to go a little further if I can get someone else to take the photos… we will see.

First pic is from April of last year. Not even my biggest, but topless pics before that (very intentionally) don’t exist. Then we fast forward to December 2023 and January, March, April (2-weeks ago), and this morning. Finally, included are some measurement changes. This is three weeks of progress from end of March until a week ago. Traveling for work this weekend which throws off my diet. I need to get better at eating clean on the road. I have to rely far too much on prepackaged protein shakes etc. I don’t have any more trips planned between now and my goal, so that should help.

Looking at the pics, even I am surprised at how far I have come in such little time, relatively speaking of course. I mean, sure, I am getting a bit of an assist from some top down lighting this morning but I am also bloated as hell. It’s pretty amazing how things start to accelerate in terms of visible progress once you hit a certain threshold! Also, the DEXA scans are a huge motivation boost. Sure, much of the “lean mass” increase is likely intermuscular glycogen and water storage, but surly not all of it? Any opinions on how much of that is “real?”

I have another DEXA scheduled soon, which I will try and move up sooner, to see what the latest numbers are. But given what I am seeing in the pictures, I developed… an idea. And when I get ideas, we should all be very scared.

“You cannot swim for new horizons until you have courage to lose sight of the shore.” - William Faulkner

I am contemplating a bit of a pivot. First, I have decided to stick with my current cycle until my next DEXA scan, because I want the data point of a DEXA scan while on Tren. The current cycle is (all doses weekly):

• 250 Test E (pinned EOD);
• 140 Primo E (pinned EOD);
• 350 Tren A (pinned ED)
  • Week 1: 70 mg week;
  • Week 2: 140 mg week;
  • Week 3.5: 350 mg week (and will be staying here as long as sides remain manageable - been two weeks and feel great so far… famous last words. If sides become intolerable—and I have a very low threshold for intolerable—I pull the ripcord).
• 2IU HGH (pre-bed);
• 10mg Cardarine (AM pre-workout) (just added based on the cycle designs on this website - cardio is… so much easier now).

Like I said, I will try to get in for the DEXA early, which may be as soon as Tomorrow or as late as this coming Friday. At that point, I have a decision.

My question for the group is, do I finish out this cycle? I started Tren on 3/21, so an eight week cycle puts me at May 16 and a ten week cycle puts me at May 30. Obviously, there will be no day long fasts during that period. After the cycle ends, I can then switch to the cycle and plan outlined in my original post, though based on feedback I may go lower on the Test (and therefore Primo). Something like 350 Test, 200 Primo, and Var for another 4-6 weeks, then I switch back to TRT doses (~200 Test puts me at the top of the reference range)? I may also only do one fast a week after I drop the Tren based on what DEXA says and how far I have to go. The goal is visible abs by the Fourth of July. [Let me caveat this by saying, I know I don’t need any of this to get visible abs. I know diet alone can get me there. I will say, however, that it’s hard to argue none of this has helped. I also know that Tren is typically reserved for pro’s who are in contest prep mode, and I am neither a pro nor in contest prep mode. It’s a shame Tren works as well as it does actually, or it wouldn’t be an issue.]

Any constructive thoughts? Merely a bad idea or the worst idea to keep on tren for another few weeks?



One last thing as a bit of a post-script, I have seen a few comments questioning the usefulness of calorie math, which surprised me a bit. How do people tend to track calories here?

 

[Formulate_Infinity]

Nice start to this log and I love your humility

congrats on making some big changes now let's keep it going I'm looking forward to seeing your transformation pictures a lot of people will be reading this who were in your situation before and who are very down on themselves and you're gonna help them

This is just an insanely nice thing to say. I hope so man, I hope so.