Veteran Thread Are you following these training tips?

[Mobster]

Often, and I suspect we've all done this, we start with what looks like a awesomely planned training program. Back when magazines were a BIG deal you'd often follow an article they'd featured. Ditto, even now, seeing what a pro did and doing that. Over time that program, if not changed or swapped for another, becomes modified to the point where it USED TO make sense. Here's a few pointers, aimed at bodybuilders (and to a lesser degree lifters too) to keep you focused.

Targeting a muscle with an exercise
Let's pick chest / pecs. The 'rule's apply regardless of which muscle we're targeting. What part of your pecs needs work? Don't be doing cable flyes just cos EVERYONE does cable flyes for chest. Do them because you wanna focus work on the inner chest where the muscle affixes to the sternum. Remember also if you do use flyes you can adjust the angle. Upper pec can be hit with inclines (dumbbell, barbell, machine etc). Lower pec with decline and so on.

I'd start with including a compound as well as any kind of isolation (targeting a weak area). If the compound goes first you can argue you're working all the muscle. If the isolation exercise is primary then you're hitting the weak area while it's still fresh. If most of the pec, in this example, is decent enough, then I'd put my energy into the pre-exhausting of the 'weak' area.

Doing too many exercises
I can see any need to do more than 3 exercises for a muscle. If you're working your ass off I'm not sure you should even want to do more than 2. One way round this, if you must, is to do a compound/core movement every time and switch an isolation lift every time, as per the above example, you hit chest. The real reason most do 4-6 exercises for a muscle is they're not going all out and as hard as possible - basically they train with a low intensity. Which leads me to...

Train as HARD as possible!!
Let's keep with the pec workout. Taking the flyes first. Warm up LIGHT. Heck when I bench you'd see me using a broomstick then the empty bar. Do different speeds and even a little rotator cuff type movement. I'd do 3 sets (maybe 4) Set 1 I'd go with a rep range which works for you (for me that might be as low as 8 reps) at 60% of my max. Set 2, similar rep range, 70%. Then it's time to kick ass. 80% and as many god damn reps as I can. Now is the time to squeeze as hard as you can. IF you KNOW you didn't kill it then do that added set. MAYBE and it is a MAYBE do ONE high rep pump set to completely finish it off with 40%. The inner pec might feel like it's about to cramp up. Now you can rest for a moment. Sip your intra if you use one etc. Heck give that inner pec a massage and a little stretch.

Now the compound
Yep - bring up a flat bench press. Again dumbbell, barbell, machine etc can be used. Warm up doesn't need to be done to the same level as usual if it had been the first exercise because of the flyes but I'd still keep the opening set to a sensible level. Now, as a lifter, the more sets I do at a set percentage the better and more able I will be to hit my 1 rep max target. But for building muscle I wanna hit the point where I am as close as I can be to where the muscle refuses to contract. Again it can be argued that if you can do multiple work sets you're holding back.

Start recovering
Massage that chest well. Heck it should be hard to do so so get someone else to do it ha ha. Have a soak in a hot bath and be sure to eat well so as to help the muscle recover.

Key Pointers
Above all ensure that there are legitimate reasons why your training program is the way that it is. If you are working around an injury fine. If you're doing a ton of sets it's probably cos you like to and aren't putting out quite the effort truly required. It's ok to admit it - now fix it and truly train that muscle HARD. Make sure the same 'rules' apply to PEDs and nutrition. Every so often we need to evaluate whether we've gone off track or are still doing what needs to be done

Thus endeth the lesson

 

[RoidRage69]

Often, and I suspect we've all done this, we start with what looks like a awesomely planned training program. Back when magazines were a BIG deal you'd often follow an article they'd featured. Ditto, even now, seeing what a pro did and doing that. Over time that program, if not changed or swapped for another, becomes modified to the point where it USED TO make sense. Here's a few pointers, aimed at bodybuilders (and to a lesser degree lifters too) to keep you focused.

Targeting a muscle with an exercise
Let's pick chest / pecs. The 'rule's apply regardless of which muscle we're targeting. What part of your pecs needs work? Don't be doing cable flyes just cos EVERYONE does cable flyes for chest. Do them because you wanna focus work on the inner chest where the muscle affixes to the sternum. Remember also if you do use flyes you can adjust the angle. Upper pec can be hit with inclines (dumbbell, barbell, machine etc). Lower pec with decline and so on.

I'd start with including a compound as well as any kind of isolation (targeting a weak area). If the compound goes first you can argue you're working all the muscle. If the isolation exercise is primary then you're hitting the weak area while it's still fresh. If most of the pec, in this example, is decent enough, then I'd put my energy into the pre-exhausting of the 'weak' area.

Doing too many exercises
I can see any need to do more than 3 exercises for a muscle. If you're working your ass off I'm not sure you should even want to do more than 2. One way round this, if you must, is to do a compound/core movement every time and switch an isolation lift every time, as per the above example, you hit chest. The real reason most do 4-6 exercises for a muscle is they're not going all out and as hard as possible - basically they train with a low intensity. Which leads me to...

Train as HARD as possible!!
Let's keep with the pec workout. Taking the flyes first. Warm up LIGHT. Heck when I bench you'd see me using a broomstick then the empty bar. Do different speeds and even a little rotator cuff type movement. I'd do 3 sets (maybe 4) Set 1 I'd go with a rep range which works for you (for me that might be as low as 8 reps) at 60% of my max. Set 2, similar rep range, 70%. Then it's time to kick ass. 80% and as many god damn reps as I can. Now is the time to squeeze as hard as you can. IF you KNOW you didn't kill it then do that added set. MAYBE and it is a MAYBE do ONE high rep pump set to completely finish it off with 40%. The inner pec might feel like it's about to cramp up. Now you can rest for a moment. Sip your intra if you use one etc. Heck give that inner pec a massage and a little stretch.

Now the compound
Yep - bring up a flat bench press. Again dumbbell, barbell, machine etc can be used. Warm up doesn't need to be done to the same level as usual if it had been the first exercise because of the flyes but I'd still keep the opening set to a sensible level. Now, as a lifter, the more sets I do at a set percentage the better and more able I will be to hit my 1 rep max target. But for building muscle I wanna hit the point where I am as close as I can be to where the muscle refuses to contract. Again it can be argued that if you can do multiple work sets you're holding back.

Start recovering
Massage that chest well. Heck it should be hard to do so so get someone else to do it ha ha. Have a soak in a hot bath and be sure to eat well so as to help the muscle recover.

Key Pointers
Above all ensure that there are legitimate reasons why your training program is the way that it is. If you are working around an injury fine. If you're doing a ton of sets it's probably cos you like to and aren't putting out quite the effort truly required. It's ok to admit it - now fix it and truly train that muscle HARD. Make sure the same 'rules' apply to PEDs and nutrition. Every so often we need to evaluate whether we've gone off track or are still doing what needs to be done

Thus endeth the lesson

I think the majority of people use way too many sets. I do 3 warmups on my chest and rows and then I am doing 3 working sets. Thats all I need. Then I go to the next exercise and go directly to the working sets for 2-3 sets. For back I do more as since its the largest mass on your body. Almost 1/2 your body is back.

Another thing that really bothers me. Why do so many people not show the weights they are training with in their logs? IMO its a worthless log if they dont show the weights they are using.

 

[LittleTimeTrouble]

I think the majority of people use way too many sets. I do 3 warmups on my chest and rows and then I am doing 3 working sets. Thats all I need. Then I go to the next exercise and go directly to the working sets for 2-3 sets. For back I do more as since its the largest mass on your body. Almost 1/2 your body is back.

Another thing that really bothers me. Why do so many people not show the weights they are training with in their logs? IMO its a worthless log if they dont show the weights they are using.

Depends. All machines have different leverages, so weights don’t really translate. For example, I do a similar number of sets per exercise as indicated here. Usually 2-3, between 2 and 0 reps from failure. If I use a Hammer Strength ab machine, I’ll do 17 at 120 for my first set. If I use a Hoist ab machine, I’ll do 300 for 17. Same with chest machines. I’ll do a dozen at 225 on a Nautilus Nitro, and a dozen at 295 on a Cybex. So the weights don’t really translate from gym to gym, unless you are talking about free weight. At that point it is more of an ego comparison without context. All that matters is that you are progressing your own workouts.

This is a very good list. I only disagree with hot baths. I think current research shows that such indulgences marginally decrease hypertrophy. That said, I am in the hot tub every night. This time of year is the best, because we sit out there and listen to the elk bugling.

 

[RoidRage69]

Depends. All machines have different leverages, so weights don’t really translate. For example, I do a similar number of sets per exercise as indicated here. Usually 2-3, between 2 and 0 reps from failure. If I use a Hammer Strength ab machine, I’ll do 17 at 120 for my first set. If I use a Hoist ab machine, I’ll do 300 for 17. Same with chest machines. I’ll do a dozen at 225 on a Nautilus Nitro, and a dozen at 295 on a Cybex. So the weights don’t really translate from gym to gym, unless you are talking about free weight. At that point it is more of an ego comparison without context. All that matters is that you are progressing your own worko

You can tell if a person is strong or not buy posting up the weights and the machine they are using. By just putting up sets and reps everyone is in the dark as to what is actually going on. If you were training the person online you would have zero clue as to how they are doing. Same thing goes here. My point still stands. If you hide the weights in your log your log is worthless to all on this message board.

 

[LittleTimeTrouble]

Muscles don’t care how much weight you use, and other people shouldn’t either. All that matters is that you train hard, in proximity to failure. Strength comparisons would, IMO, lead to a less friendly, more competitive message board. But what do I know, I just read the logs, not post in them.

 

[Mobster]

I think the majority of people use way too many sets. I do 3 warmups on my chest and rows and then I am doing 3 working sets. Thats all I need. Then I go to the next exercise and go directly to the working sets for 2-3 sets. For back I do more as since its the largest mass on your body. Almost 1/2 your body is back.

Another thing that really bothers me. Why do so many people not show the weights they are training with in their logs? IMO its a worthless log if they dont show the weights they are using.

I agree with the back. Mostly cos 1 move doesn't work every thing and I'd want at least 2 plus a focus movement.

Ditto weights. If you train light and we see that's it's light, never mind what I do, but for them too, don't expect the volume to make up for a lack of stimuli.

 

[Mobster]

Muscles don’t care how much weight you use, and other people shouldn’t either. All that matters is that you train hard, in proximity to failure. Strength comparisons would, IMO, lead to a less friendly, more competitive message board. But what do I know, I just read the logs, not post in them.

It's relative. No one can argue that you'll get a thicker more muscular chest using a 10lb dumbbell regardless of the volume if, having done (say) 100 reps you failed vs doing the exact same workout and using a 30lb dumbbell. And I've yet to see a pissing competition here regarding the actual weights anyone uses. No one needs to compare what they do with me, you or anyone. Only with what they do and whether they are, as per the thread, doing enough to stimulate gains (in strength, muscle or fat loss). The focus of the forum is good PED use and advice. But, as I asked, are you killing it? Has your training lost focus? Has the program become muddled?

 

[LittleTimeTrouble]

It's relative. No one can argue that you'll get a thicker more muscular chest using a 10lb dumbbell regardless of the volume if, having done (say) 100 reps you failed vs doing the exact same workout and using a 30lb dumbbell. And I've yet to see a pissing competition here regarding the actual weights anyone uses. No one needs to compare what they do with me, you or anyone. Only with what they do and whether they are, as per the thread, doing enough to stimulate gains (in strength, muscle or fat loss). The focus of the forum is good PED use and advice. But, as I asked, are you killing it? Has your training lost focus? Has the program become muddled?

Right, what I mean is that muscles care about the amount of torque they are handling at the given joint, not the amount of weight on the apparatus being used. Best example is a pendulum squat. You rarely see guys over 135 on that thing, even 700+ lb squatters. That’s because the distance from the fulcrum to the weight itself is a huge multiplier, so the torque at the knee joint is probably 3.5:1 with a back squat. That’s all the quads care about, not whether you achieve that torque by putting 130 lbs on a pendulum, 400 lbs on your back, or 700 lbs on a leg press. To your muscles, that’s all the same.

But my larger point is that nobody should be shamed into giving out info they find personal. They own that info, not the rest of the board. I don’t find it useless when somebody does or doesn’t post their numbers.

If it makes RR happy, today I did the following:
2 sets Atlantis Pendulum @ 120 (10, 8)
2 sets old school Bodymaster leg extension @140 (12, 11)
2 sets RDL @ 345 (9,9)
1 set barbell 45 degree hyper @ 195 (13)
3 sets hanging leg raises w/25 lbs strapped to ankles (11, 11, 5)
3 sets calf raises on smith @ 305 (15, 12, 11)

I was happy enough with my workout. Everything felt good. I had planned on two sets on the 45 degree, but I was pretty sure my back didn’t love the idea of going again.

 

[Mobster]

Right, what I mean is that muscles care about the amount of torque they are handling at the given joint, not the amount of weight on the apparatus being used. Best example is a pendulum squat. You rarely see guys over 135 on that thing, even 700+ lb squatters. That’s because the distance from the fulcrum to the weight itself is a huge multiplier, so the torque at the knee joint is probably 3.5:1 with a back squat. That’s all the quads care about, not whether you achieve that torque by putting 130 lbs on a pendulum, 400 lbs on your back, or 700 lbs on a leg press. To your muscles, that’s all the same.

But my larger point is that nobody should be shamed into giving out info they find personal. They own that info, not the rest of the board. I don’t find it useless when somebody does or doesn’t post their numbers.

If it makes RR happy, today I did the following:
2 sets Atlantis Pendulum @ 120 (10, 8)
2 sets old school Bodymaster leg extension @140 (12, 11)
2 sets RDL @ 345 (9,9)
1 set barbell 45 degree hyper @ 195 (13)
3 sets hanging leg raises w/25 lbs strapped to ankles (11, 11, 5)
3 sets calf raises on smith @ 305 (15, 12, 11)

I was happy enough with my workout. Everything felt good. I had planned on two sets on the 45 degree, but I was pretty sure my back didn’t love the idea of going again.

Kinda off if they're ok with photos in their pants, our knowledge of their food and drug use and the sets and reps and asking for help with improving but including the weights is an issue. But as I pointed out above is not abut the weights per se (as did you) it's are you killing it and progressing? Cos ONE of those factors might be a need to rep more as much as it be to add more weight.

If someone weighs a 100lbs dripping wet and says they wanna grow but eat poorly (we've seen a few of those) or are 100lbs overweight and eat badly (ditto) then we KNOW they gotta eat better.

If their diets on point and they've not gone crazy on the PEDs but nothings happening maybe they spend too much time talking and not enough stressing the muscle. If using the 30's is keeping them where they are on a great program maybe they need to up it to 35.

And the numbers are relative. A head fuck for many (and why they wont include the weights) is the internet. At my absolute best I'm at about half if not close to a 3rd as strong as the very best seated presser ever (550-600lbs vs my all time best of 280 or so). I a-ways from my PB although creeping back slowly with my frozen shoulder. But to others what I do now might seem high. But I've been doing it 43 years. It ought to be decent by now. But if I wound the clock back to where a random member is on their journey I might have used less at the same point.

Like I said - it's not nor needs to be a pissing competition. Heck we don't do that for biggest chest, most ripped, most veins so why would we do it for weights? We've all kinds here with different aspirations.

The question only needs to be - did you train as hard as you could? Or has it become muddled.

Using you as an example. You felt like you did well. Are you seeing improvements doing what you're doing or is there an area you can take it up a notch?

 

[LittleTimeTrouble]

My main point of improvement would be that I enjoy pain in my quads less than I do in every other muscle in my body, so I probably leave myself 1-2 reps shy on squats of all kinds than I would pressing or pulling. It’s a hard mental block for me, always has been. Other than that, my strength as a human is probably my ability to stay disciplined, so there are a lot of traps I kind of avoid because of decades of self control. I guess another weakness, which is directly related, is that it is really hard for me to commit to gaining through the point where I start to look a bit fluffy.

We’re all struggling with our own demons, though.

 

[LevButlerov]

Often, and I suspect we've all done this, we start with what looks like a awesomely planned training program. Back when magazines were a BIG deal you'd often follow an article they'd featured. Ditto, even now, seeing what a pro did and doing that. Over time that program, if not changed or swapped for another, becomes modified to the point where it USED TO make sense. Here's a few pointers, aimed at bodybuilders (and to a lesser degree lifters too) to keep you focused.

Targeting a muscle with an exercise
Let's pick chest / pecs. The 'rule's apply regardless of which muscle we're targeting. What part of your pecs needs work? Don't be doing cable flyes just cos EVERYONE does cable flyes for chest. Do them because you wanna focus work on the inner chest where the muscle affixes to the sternum. Remember also if you do use flyes you can adjust the angle. Upper pec can be hit with inclines (dumbbell, barbell, machine etc). Lower pec with decline and so on.

I'd start with including a compound as well as any kind of isolation (targeting a weak area). If the compound goes first you can argue you're working all the muscle. If the isolation exercise is primary then you're hitting the weak area while it's still fresh. If most of the pec, in this example, is decent enough, then I'd put my energy into the pre-exhausting of the 'weak' area.

Doing too many exercises
I can see any need to do more than 3 exercises for a muscle. If you're working your ass off I'm not sure you should even want to do more than 2. One way round this, if you must, is to do a compound/core movement every time and switch an isolation lift every time, as per the above example, you hit chest. The real reason most do 4-6 exercises for a muscle is they're not going all out and as hard as possible - basically they train with a low intensity. Which leads me to...

Train as HARD as possible!!
Let's keep with the pec workout. Taking the flyes first. Warm up LIGHT. Heck when I bench you'd see me using a broomstick then the empty bar. Do different speeds and even a little rotator cuff type movement. I'd do 3 sets (maybe 4) Set 1 I'd go with a rep range which works for you (for me that might be as low as 8 reps) at 60% of my max. Set 2, similar rep range, 70%. Then it's time to kick ass. 80% and as many god damn reps as I can. Now is the time to squeeze as hard as you can. IF you KNOW you didn't kill it then do that added set. MAYBE and it is a MAYBE do ONE high rep pump set to completely finish it off with 40%. The inner pec might feel like it's about to cramp up. Now you can rest for a moment. Sip your intra if you use one etc. Heck give that inner pec a massage and a little stretch.

Now the compound
Yep - bring up a flat bench press. Again dumbbell, barbell, machine etc can be used. Warm up doesn't need to be done to the same level as usual if it had been the first exercise because of the flyes but I'd still keep the opening set to a sensible level. Now, as a lifter, the more sets I do at a set percentage the better and more able I will be to hit my 1 rep max target. But for building muscle I wanna hit the point where I am as close as I can be to where the muscle refuses to contract. Again it can be argued that if you can do multiple work sets you're holding back.

Start recovering
Massage that chest well. Heck it should be hard to do so so get someone else to do it ha ha. Have a soak in a hot bath and be sure to eat well so as to help the muscle recover.

Key Pointers
Above all ensure that there are legitimate reasons why your training program is the way that it is. If you are working around an injury fine. If you're doing a ton of sets it's probably cos you like to and aren't putting out quite the effort truly required. It's ok to admit it - now fix it and truly train that muscle HARD. Make sure the same 'rules' apply to PEDs and nutrition. Every so often we need to evaluate whether we've gone off track or are still doing what needs to be done

Thus endeth the lesson

@Mobster my #1 rule train hard as you can

 

[RoidRage69]

@Mobster my #1 rule train hard as you can

Same here but I need to also listen to my body extra carefully these days. Injury’s are the only thing that holds me back.

 

[stevesmi]

people need to get in the hours in the gym and use correct form. i see too many people who lift with awful form and the PT's at the gyms don't even know what they are doing either

 

[ceo]

bros @Mobster good tips

 

[JasonPriest]

i always train low weight and high reps with control

 

[Ulter]

will be following now @Mobster

 

[ROIDDERS]

@Mobster I like super sets to the max

 

[chesty]

@Mobster your level of training knowledge is #1 on evo

 

[StevenDarwinMD]

This thread/post was reviewed by our Medical Review board.

This thread/post/message was also fact checked by Steven Darwin, MD and our medical review board.

Full editorial process was followed, and please read our medical disclaimer, check our editorial process.

 

[e2]

g2g info @Mobster