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Probably not the thread for it. But say using 500mg test a week for a base number what’s everyone looking for in their blood work? For markers and estrogen levels to still be in range? Or estrogen will be a lil higher due to higher test levels and using aromasin to bring it back down?
As we raise androgens we want estrogen to rise too. Estrogen is protective of heart, kidney, and brain. It's responsibile for vasodialation, libido, election quality. Basically run test as high as you can without an AI or SERMs. Once you know where that ceiling is, fill the rest in with another androgen which doesn't convert to estrogen or DHT (Nandrolone converts but very low amounts) in order to grow.
This is exactly what I do.
J3U model
Actually Victor Black model. John was a student of victor along with Derek from MPMD
Welcome back to the EVO family @Wideload23 havent seen you for a few months posting.
To begin, this is the sub to ask your questions, there is no wrong way to ask on EVO, the EVO family is a no judgement zone.
For your question, it's very subjective at best. You're using 500mgs testosterone, but how is your body absorbing it or responding to it is very subjective case by base. Generally speaking, over 150-200mgs testosterone (real tested) would boost your E2 (estrogen) levels out of range or close to the top, and the higher you go the higher the estrogen leve.
If you're at 500mgs testosterone it's best to using aromasin right away, estrogen can be very dangerous when high.
But my answer is just general, like shooting a bow in the dark, unlikely to hit the target.
The real question @Wideload23 is what is your cycle plan? what do you plan to use in total? how long? why? whats your history and stats? share more with the EVO family please
@Jimboslice117 this is possible to do but not without possible serious side effects. Estrogen is one of the leading causes of cancer to start.
High Estrogen sides include, Gynecomastia, Erectile Dysfunction, Reduced Libido, Fatigue, Mood Swings, Increased Body Fat, Muscle Loss, Water Retention, Infertility, Prostate Health Issues, Loss of Bone Density, Sleep Disturbances, Headaches, possible brain damage. These are from my last article on the topic actually.
In theory you can play with TRT to TRT+ to Sports TRT+ in doses with out AI, but we are talking about 25-50mgs+ increments in general.
you want your estrogen on a cycle like this middle or upper part of range. not too high and not low either
there are more dangers of high estrogen then just gyno or water weight. it also has domino effects like messing up your sleep and even firing up cancer cells that feed off estrogen
there are more dangers of high estrogen then just gyno or water weight. it also has domino effects like messing up your sleep and even firing up cancer cells that feed off estrogen
Thanks legend! Yea I’m always browsing the forum this was one topic I can’t say I’ve seen much about!
Yea definitely understand once you raise your levels estrogen follows suit, ive never had issues with estrogen that I’ve noticed till I got a recent blood test while using 500mg test and 400mg mast! Estrogen came back at 357 pmol/L which is off the charts!! Everything else was in range, So since I’ve gone back to 250 test 200 mast just to bring it down and got aromasin on the way!
Plan is to run test and mast at 500 -400 and add some var 30-40 mg in about the 8 week mark of a cut 12-14 weeks! Current stats 33yrs old 6ft 102-103kg between 12-15% bf! Test and mast has always been my go too! Open to maybe dropping the mast for primo
@Wideload23 EVO family always welcomes guys browsing, in fact 94-97% of our traffic are visitors/guests/viewers only/lurkers, we get around 1,600,000 visitors/month across our family of communities.
I'll split the question below Q/A
guys talk about dosages and estrogen all the time, but we have so many posts it easily get muddied with new dicussion
Yup thats the HUGE misconception about masteron and primobolan ("it will crush estrogen") thats nonsense as you saw. Masteron and primobolan undoubtably have an anti-estrogenic effect closer to a SERM imo. Nothing like an Ai like aromasin or arimidex, suicidal or non-suicidal aromatase inhibitors will level out E2 more and in way easier to manage patterns. @AE1079 @Pigsy @Mobster @stevesmi @Noah Wixx @Napa1020 @RoidRage69 @s.gentz @Eddie Haskell @LevButlerov @Quadsweep can comment here as well
Did you redo blood work?
This is a big cycle, before doing this blast from your current test/mast ration, we should dial in your diet and training, clean it up and prep it for the blast. How can we do that?
easy, @Wideload23 please start a NEW thread with your LOG journal diary, share your diet, training, cardio, sleep, supplements and cycle with history and the whole EVO family can guide you and help you (it should take you 15-20min to write, just put whats on your mind first and we'll guide you from there)
To really guide you we need more info, we need you to share your diet, training, cardio, sleep, supplements etc log with us in a NEW thread, full log journal so our guidance is based on facts you provide.
We have 100s of years of experience between us, you need to post a LOG Journal with your stats (weight,height,age, years training, cycle history) diet, training, cardio, supplement, sleep details. If you don't log what you eat or train now, open NOTES on phone and start recording it there and paste here. Very easy.
Please post a Log Journal asap for us
Please click the anabolic forum
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top RIGHT, you see: +POST THREAD
click that
in Title: write your cycle name, like> My _____ Cycle Log
___ = the name of your log
example: My testosterone masteron cycle Log
in body: write your planned cycle or cycle you doing now, your diet, training and we will help you along on your cycle
here are examples of LOG Journals
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/s-gentz-recomp-cut-log-2023-2024.96694/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/mobsters-training-diary.84438/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/roidrage69-log.90127
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/domestic-supply-bulking-log-25homes-max.97609/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...obolan-equipoise-tbol-contest-prep-log.97138/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...osterone-deca-primobolan-hgh-cycle-log.97978/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...igas-hgh-and-bpc157-recovery-cycle-log.97594/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...enbolone-cycle-log-let-the-gains-begin.98399/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/pigsy-new-sponsor-ugl-contest-prep-log.96779/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-2023-2024-log.95956/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...stosterone-cardarine-cutting-cycle-log.97281/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/roidragewife-female-training-log.95769/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/2024-lean-bulking-cycle-log.97986/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-trt-with-deca-durabolin-log.97962/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...bodybuilding-log-masters-55-competitor.97210/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/losiol-primobolan-testosterone-log.96581/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/roughy-steroid-cycle-and-training.97944/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/fatboy999-2024-cycle-log.97936/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/testosterone-equipoise-trenbolone-cycle-log.96963/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-trt-log.98284/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/16-week-testosterone-cardarine-n2guard-cycle-log.98034/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/training-log-female.90425
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...tosterone-masteron-primobolan-blast-log.98328
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/25homes-revenge-transformation-log-2023.88570/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...n-season-sponsored-by-nordic-fusion-log.89817
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/s-gentz-contest-prep-log.87619/
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Something to keep in mind
Body fat - higher body fat the higher you aromatise, fairly simple. Wouldn’t risk going over even 400mg if body fat is over over 20%
As some of the boys said, it’s all genetic dependent.
However, I have seen the more cycle you run, the more test you can get away with, without a AI. AIs aren’t really a thing anymore unless you are seriously predisposed to Gyno mainly or in a contest prep to bring yourself in, as E2 can shift fat in the body where we don’t need it in that setting.
Another good point is to introduce something like mast or primo
Mast is a SERM. it blocks e2 at the EB2R receptor, downstreaming in growth of breast tissue. When masteron antogonises this receptor, its stops stimulation of breast tissue growth. Traditionally used in clinical settings as an anti breast cancer drug, MAST - Cell therapy.
Primos metabolites which I forgot the name of, has only recently been found clinically. We have seen when people have ran blood work with test and primo, that e2 comes down to a large degree DEPENDING on dosage. 1:1 ratios of test and primo will cut your e2 in half. Primo is the perfect anabolic, but it can cause some issues if ran too high over test, as we need E2 to convert HGH into IGF-1 in the liver, as well as its protective benefits to vital organs. E2 needs to stay in range. More is not better, and won’t convert to more IGF1.
As another poster said, based off the victor black model, it’s best to fill in the gaps with a anabolic if you aren’t predisposed to gyno or have had pre-pubescent gyno, as monotherapy would have had to be introduced.
Another way around reducing E2 is jabbing your gear ED, this will stop fluctuating e2 levels corresponding with larger bolus of test shots. The body is extremely efficient, so it will respond to larger bolus of androgens by raising E2. ED or EOD is good.
Body fat - higher body fat the higher you aromatise, fairly simple. Wouldn’t risk going over even 400mg if body fat is over over 20%
As some of the boys said, it’s all genetic dependent.
However, I have seen the more cycle you run, the more test you can get away with, without a AI. AIs aren’t really a thing anymore unless you are seriously predisposed to Gyno mainly or in a contest prep to bring yourself in, as E2 can shift fat in the body where we don’t need it in that setting.
Another good point is to introduce something like mast or primo
Mast is a SERM. it blocks e2 at the EB2R receptor, downstreaming in growth of breast tissue. When masteron antogonises this receptor, its stops stimulation of breast tissue growth. Traditionally used in clinical settings as an anti breast cancer drug, MAST - Cell therapy.
Primos metabolites which I forgot the name of, has only recently been found clinically. We have seen when people have ran blood work with test and primo, that e2 comes down to a large degree DEPENDING on dosage. 1:1 ratios of test and primo will cut your e2 in half. Primo is the perfect anabolic, but it can cause some issues if ran too high over test, as we need E2 to convert HGH into IGF-1 in the liver, as well as its protective benefits to vital organs. E2 needs to stay in range. More is not better, and won’t convert to more IGF1.
As another poster said, based off the victor black model, it’s best to fill in the gaps with a anabolic if you aren’t predisposed to gyno or have had pre-pubescent gyno, as monotherapy would have had to be introduced.
Another way around reducing E2 is jabbing your gear ED, this will stop fluctuating e2 levels corresponding with larger bolus of test shots. The body is extremely efficient, so it will respond to larger bolus of androgens by raising E2. ED or EOD is good.
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In this case, jab your test ED with Primo if you’re swapping out from Mast.
If E2 is high still, raise primo over a AI.
AIs should be a final resort, and to that it should be Aromasin. As it is a type 1 AI with a steroidal back bone and binds irreversibly so allow aromatase enzyme inhibition. Just remember we can’t completely stop biosynthesis. So there will always be some degree of breast tissue development, unless you completely remove the gland.
Ive run test and promo few times now and my preferred method is a 1:1 ratio keeps everything balanced for me and i have zero gyno or estrogen issues, primobolan has worked great for me, i like it because it is easy and smooth to run, clean cycle no problems for me.
You're likely less estrogen prone than other guys. I did fine 1:1 with test
rimo to be the advanced way of doing it, but mainly guys prepping for shows are doing this. @Noah Wixx
Very true right now its about trying different things and doses and seeing what my body can handle and how i respond so by the time i compete in 2026 we will have a list of compounds that work extremely well for me response wise and mentally.You're likely less estrogen prone than other guys. I did fine 1:1 with test
I would have to respectfully disagree on there being such a thing as high estrogen side effects such gynecomastia, erectile dysfunction etc based on the evidence at hand.
Well where does Gynecomastia come from with steroid users? Where and why does ED come about when we are using pharmacology to enhance?
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