Clen for cutting/dangers,dosages,etc

[GreekStud]

Hello all, first post, nice being here.

I've been natural so far, Ι'm currently at roughly 15-18% bf,200 lbs,5'9'', I started cutting, I'd like to reach 10-12% bf, not less right now.
I'm in the iron game for some time, definitely not a newbie.

I'd like to try Clen (can't find Albuterol anywhere near me, and I don't have the money for Cardarine), but I'm a bit scared of the sides, having read hundreds of posts about heart necrosis etc, where many people support the notion that clen is almost fatal, and others try to calm them down.

In some studies, I think I've seen doses at 120 mcg showing heart necrosis symptoms, which is not a big dosage, and that's freaking me out a bit.
Can dosages at 40-80 mg max be harmful?

I'd like to try 2 weeks on / 2 off, after reading it's the most useful cycle, with 40-80 mg tapering up.
Will this be any beneficial at all for fat loss, will this be harmful in terms of heart health?

I'd like the opinion of everyone here about the questions asked and about Clen generally, thanks in advance people.

 

[Fit-PharmD]

Clen has been used in the BB world for decades and I have not heard of one fatality due to its use. DNP is far more dangerous and even it doesn't cause many fatalities. The only individuals who injure themselves are the ones who misuse it just like any other substance. I have been a member of this site for quite a while so I have a general feel for what responses you will get. Most of the moderators here do not like clen for various reasons and that's fine. I however have used it and am still using it and have had 0 issues. As long as it is used responsibly in moderate dosages and you don't take any other Beta agonist cmpds you will be fine. The only side effect you will feel and is most common is the shakiness in the hands. It is very minor but I use it as a moniker for dosing and my tolerance.

If you have done your research you will have learned that our bodies build a tolerance to Beta agonists/blockers. So after a few doses of say 20mcg, which is a good starting dose, you will notice the hand shakiness disapear. This means you are now tolerant to that 20mcg's and it no longer has much effect. You would then increase to 30 or 40mcg a day and continue at that dose until you no longer feel it working. Do this for 2 weeks or so and then stop for 2 weeks to let the receptors reregulate.

Remember, clen alone will not shed fat. You need to combine it with a steady workout program and cardio sessions multiple times a week. All of these things need to be in place before using clen. Many ppl think they can just add this in and it will do all the work. The purpose of any of the PED's is like icing on the cake. It's the last piece of the puzzle so to speak. Once you have your diet and workout routine in place adding clen will give you that extra fat burning boost you are looking for. Just keep that in mind.

 

[stevesmi]

SOME guys like clen, but MOST do not

fitfarm is right. I hate the stuff.. used it twice and both times it was awful experience.

shaking all day, felt like my heart was going to explode, heart burn after dinner when i laid down, and it ruins your cardio. results were not worth all that

I would much rather run GW and get better results with no sides and actually get increased cardio. GW will actually help the heart.

 

[muskate]

I will first answer your question and then give you my thoughts on clen.
The best way to use clen is to start off with a low dosage and then increase the dosage every 2 weeks. Your body gets used to clenbuterol very fast so you need to keep increasing the dosage to get the metabolism boosting benefits. I would start off with 20mcg/day for 2 weeks, then increase it to 40mcg/day for 2 weeks, then increase it to 60mcg/day for 2 weeks, then increase it to 80mcg/day for 2 weeks then take a 8 week break and start the cycle all over again.

I personally am not a big fan of clenbuterol.
Clenbuterol is very over rated. Here's why -
Clen simply raises metabolism. It does not differentiate between muscle or fat. Clen might raise your metabolism an additional 100-200 calories per day. You could just easily do an extra 15 minutes of cardio. I have used clen in the past and I always felt it did more harm then good. It caused muscle cramps when I was training and it really negatively impacted my sleep.

There are better alternatives that directly increase fat loss, with no risk of loosing muscle mass and no side effects like insomnia or muscle cramps. Cardarine gw is going to be your best option. It directly increases fat loss, endurance and recovery. It is not a stimulant or a hormone and is pretty much void of side effects.

I haven't used clen myself in years and don't recommend it to my clients at all anymore. If they are trying to burn fat, I recommend cardarine and maybe a good nutrient partitioning supplement like n2slin from n2bm.com.

 

[Masonic Bodybuilder]

While I am not a fan of clen, sometimes you just have to try something for yourself and see how you like it. As long as you are sensible and start with low doses you will be able to control the sides. Just keep in mind the longer half life so you don't increase too quickly.

 

[GreekStud]

Clen has been used in the BB world for decades and I have not heard of one fatality due to its use. DNP is far more dangerous and even it doesn't cause many fatalities. The only individuals who injure themselves are the ones who misuse it just like any other substance. I have been a member of this site for quite a while so I have a general feel for what responses you will get. Most of the moderators here do not like clen for various reasons and that's fine. I however have used it and am still using it and have had 0 issues. As long as it is used responsibly in moderate dosages and you don't take any other Beta agonist cmpds you will be fine. The only side effect you will feel and is most common is the shakiness in the hands. It is very minor but I use it as a moniker for dosing and my tolerance.

If you have done your research you will have learned that our bodies build a tolerance to Beta agonists/blockers. So after a few doses of say 20mcg, which is a good starting dose, you will notice the hand shakiness disapear. This means you are now tolerant to that 20mcg's and it no longer has much effect. You would then increase to 30 or 40mcg a day and continue at that dose until you no longer feel it working. Do this for 2 weeks or so and then stop for 2 weeks to let the receptors reregulate.

Remember, clen alone will not shed fat. You need to combine it with a steady workout program and cardio sessions multiple times a week. All of these things need to be in place before using clen. Many ppl think they can just add this in and it will do all the work. The purpose of any of the PED's is like icing on the cake. It's the last piece of the puzzle so to speak. Once you have your diet and workout routine in place adding clen will give you that extra fat burning boost you are looking for. Just keep that in mind.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.
When I was talking about fatality, I was exaggerating of course, I'm mostly concerned about the potential CHRONIC side effects like heart necrosis / hypertrophy seen in rats.
Although after skimming the studies, they were dosing with 2-5k mcg of clen, that's 100-250 pills??
That's what concerns me, otherwise I would have started already.
I was thinking of using just 60 mcg as the top dose, do you personally believe that this dosage will be effective?

SOME guys like clen, but MOST do not

fitfarm is right. I hate the stuff.. used it twice and both times it was awful experience.

shaking all day, felt like my heart was going to explode, heart burn after dinner when i laid down, and it ruins your cardio. results were not worth all that

I would much rather run GW and get better results with no sides and actually get increased cardio. GW will actually help the heart.

Hey steve, do you remember what dosages you used?
I'm mostly concerned about the potential heart damage, I don't really care about cardio being ruined etc.
I can't really get GW right now!

I will first answer your question and then give you my thoughts on clen.
The best way to use clen is to start off with a low dosage and then increase the dosage every 2 weeks. Your body gets used to clenbuterol very fast so you need to keep increasing the dosage to get the metabolism boosting benefits. I would start off with 20mcg/day for 2 weeks, then increase it to 40mcg/day for 2 weeks, then increase it to 60mcg/day for 2 weeks, then increase it to 80mcg/day for 2 weeks then take a 8 week break and start the cycle all over again.

I personally am not a big fan of clenbuterol.
Clenbuterol is very over rated. Here's why -
Clen simply raises metabolism. It does not differentiate between muscle or fat. Clen might raise your metabolism an additional 100-200 calories per day. You could just easily do an extra 15 minutes of cardio. I have used clen in the past and I always felt it did more harm then good. It caused muscle cramps when I was training and it really negatively impacted my sleep.

There are better alternatives that directly increase fat loss, with no risk of loosing muscle mass and no side effects like insomnia or muscle cramps. Cardarine gw is going to be your best option. It directly increases fat loss, endurance and recovery. It is not a stimulant or a hormone and is pretty much void of side effects.

I haven't used clen myself in years and don't recommend it to my clients at all anymore. If they are trying to burn fat, I recommend cardarine and maybe a good nutrient partitioning supplement like n2slin from n2bm.com.

Thanks for answering, first and foremost.
Upping the dosage every 2 weeks and no off weeks between those 2 weeks? This is the first time I've heard of this cycle. I mean, I think this is pretty aggressive on the receptors.

Also, are we really talking about 100-200 additional calories? I've seen people on Clen lose A LOT of fat without changing much in their diet and training.

While I am not a fan of clen, sometimes you just have to try something for yourself and see how you like it. As long as you are sensible and start with low doses you will be able to control the sides. Just keep in mind the longer half life so you don't increase too quickly.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.
I think I'm being oversensible but seeing those studies with big bold letters about "heart necrosis and hypertrophy" fucks my brain.
How would you run a cycle for a beginner?

 

[Masonic Bodybuilder]

If you ran 6 weeks (2 on, 2 off) I would start off low like 40mcg 2 weeks, 60mcg 2 weeks, 80mcg 2 weeks. The problem is that while you may not experience a ton of side effects at those doses, you wont see a lot of results either. Most guys that I know of that get results work up to 140mcg per day or so. They get more results as far as fat loss but the side effects get really stupid.

 

[muskate]

Thanks for answering, first and foremost.
Upping the dosage every 2 weeks and no off weeks between those 2 weeks? This is the first time I've heard of this cycle. I mean, I think this is pretty aggressive on the receptors.

Also, are we really talking about 100-200 additional calories? I've seen people on Clen lose A LOT of fat without changing much in their diet and training.

OK first off - you need to compare apples to apples. Most people using clen are using a major cocktail of weight loss drugs like T3, DNP etc.

Read actual human clinical studies on clenbuterol and metabolism and you will see that it only raises metabolism about 150-200 calories per day.

2 weeks off is not enough time to let your receptors fully recover. That's why it makes the most sense to do a full 6-10 week clen cycle, and then take 6-10 weeks off.

 

[GreekStud]

OK first off - you need to compare apples to apples. Most people using clen are using a major cocktail of weight loss drugs like T3, DNP etc.

Read actual human clinical studies on clenbuterol and metabolism and you will see that it only raises metabolism about 150-200 calories per day.

2 weeks off is not enough time to let your receptors fully recover. That's why it makes the most sense to do a full 6-10 week clen cycle, and then take 6-10 weeks off.

That's true, you can never know what somebody uses.

Could you point me out to those studies? I would be really grateful.

Really? Then the 2 weeks on / 2 off is highly flawed?

 

[stevesmi]

That's true, you can never know what somebody uses.

Could you point me out to those studies? I would be really grateful.

Really? Then the 2 weeks on / 2 off is highly flawed?

if you insist on running it then just run it bro. start with a low dose and gradually go up. the 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off is standard for the simple reason that most guys can't stand the shit past 2 weeks

i was ready to quit taking it after 1 week

 

[muskate]

That's true, you can never know what somebody uses.

Could you point me out to those studies? I would be really grateful.

Really? Then the 2 weeks on / 2 off is highly flawed?

Email me (link is in signature) and I can email you the actual studies. Here are the pub med links

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7903664
Growth, nitrogen metabolism, and cardiac responses to clenbuterol and ketoclenbuterol in rats and underfed cattle.

Sillence MN1, Hunter RA, Pegg GG, Brown L, Matthews ML, Magner T, Sleeman M, Lindsay DB.
Author information
Abstract
Two beta-adrenoceptor agonists, clenbuterol and ketoclenbuterol, were examined for their effects on growth and cardiac tissue. In female rats, clenbuterol caused a 48% increase in weight gain (P < .05), with improved feed efficiency (26%; P < .1) and increased muscle mass (9%; P < .1). Ketoclenbuterol had less effect on weight gain (30%) and feed efficiency (16%) and did not increase muscle mass. Next we studied the adverse cardiovascular effects of these compounds. Neither drug increased the force of contraction of isolated rat ventricular papillary muscle. Clenbuterol was potent at causing an increase in the rate of contraction of isolated rat atria, and when fed to cattle over 2 d, the drug caused heart rate to increase by 92 to 117%. In contrast, ketoclenbuterol was not a potent stimulator of atrial rate in the rat, and in cattle it caused a smaller increase in heart rate than clenbuterol (12 to 27%). Finally, cattle that were underfed to simulate dry-season tropical pasture conditions were treated with clenbuterol or ketoclenbuterol for 35 d. Ketoclenbuterol caused no beneficial changes in N metabolism. The results obtained with clenbuterol were equivocal, and might have been confounded partly by the refusal of some treated animals to eat all the feed offered. Although clenbuterol did not cause a reduction in total urinary N output relative to control animals, marked reductions in plasma urea concentrations and in urea synthesis were observed (23 to 53%; P < .001). We conclude that ketoclenbuterol is not effective for attenuation of dry-season protein loss in cattle. Clenbuterol seems to be less effective in underfed cattle than in well-fed cattle, and further evidence is required to judge whether compounds of this nature are likely to benefit tropical cattle under harsh grazing conditions.

This is what I am trying to say. Clen works for slightly increasing metabolism but it also causes a host of nasty side effects like a major increase in heart rate and blood pressure.

 

[GreekStud]

Okay,so, for an update, I started taking Clen (sopharma 20 mcg) 12 days ago. I started with 40 mcg, then went to 60, then 80, then stayed there for 9 more days, I have 2 more days left.

In terms of side effects, I had some side effects from the stimulation part of clen for the first 4-5 days, after these days there were no side effects at all.
My temperature went from 36.6 celsius to 37.1-2 the first 2 days at 80 mcg but since then dropped to 36.6-7 again.

Now I'm reaching 2 weeks on and don't feel any kind of side effect / beneficial effect on me, it's like Clen doesn't work or the dose is too low.
Though, I have lost 2-2.5 kgs and 4 cm from my navel measurements, of course with a big caloric deficit too.

So, my question is, do I continue after those 2 weeks or do I go 2 weeks off?
Muskate, you suggest that at those 2 weeks off, the beta receptors don't have enough time to fully recover, right?
I'd like to continue the cycle for more 2-4 weeks, seeing that clen doesn't affect me negatively but gives a slight boost to my fat loss.
Do I get benadryl to lengthen the cycle? Do I just keep going? Most people suggest 2 weeks on / 2 off and that confuses me a lot.
This plus the fact that I don't "feel" the clen in terms of temperature elevation and side-effects make me think I have to stop for some days but I'm not sure.

Thanks in advance people.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ the 2 week on and 2 weeks off with clen is important cause the sides man

it really fucks you up

with clen I wouldn't have a concrete plan.. just run it and hike the dosage until you start getting sides then lower it down a bit.. keep an eye on your heart health and if you aren't getting results don't be afraid to just abort

 

[GreekStud]

^^^ the 2 week on and 2 weeks off with clen is important cause the sides man

it really fucks you up

with clen I wouldn't have a concrete plan.. just run it and hike the dosage until you start getting sides then lower it down a bit.. keep an eye on your heart health and if you aren't getting results don't be afraid to just abort

The thing is, at 80 mcg I have no side effects, my temp and heart rate are back to normal, should I increase the dose until I get sides for the next weeks and maybe add benadryl / ketotifen, or take 2 weeks off?

I just think 2 weeks off will be counter productive on the long run.

 

[muskate]

Okay,so, for an update, I started taking Clen (sopharma 20 mcg) 12 days ago. I started with 40 mcg, then went to 60, then 80, then stayed there for 9 more days, I have 2 more days left.

In terms of side effects, I had some side effects from the stimulation part of clen for the first 4-5 days, after these days there were no side effects at all.
My temperature went from 36.6 celsius to 37.1-2 the first 2 days at 80 mcg but since then dropped to 36.6-7 again.

Now I'm reaching 2 weeks on and don't feel any kind of side effect / beneficial effect on me, it's like Clen doesn't work or the dose is too low.
Though, I have lost 2-2.5 kgs and 4 cm from my navel measurements, of course with a big caloric deficit too.

So, my question is, do I continue after those 2 weeks or do I go 2 weeks off?
Muskate, you suggest that at those 2 weeks off, the beta receptors don't have enough time to fully recover, right?
I'd like to continue the cycle for more 2-4 weeks, seeing that clen doesn't affect me negatively but gives a slight boost to my fat loss.
Do I get benadryl to lengthen the cycle? Do I just keep going? Most people suggest 2 weeks on / 2 off and that confuses me a lot.
This plus the fact that I don't "feel" the clen in terms of temperature elevation and side-effects make me think I have to stop for some days but I'm not sure.

Thanks in advance people.

2 weeks off isn't enough time to reset the beta receptors. It makes the most sense to do 10 week cycles of clen where you slowly increase the dosage and then take a full 10 weeks off.

2 weeks on 2 weeks off makes no scientific sense.

You don't need to 'feel' the clen in order for it to work. It's actually GOOD you don't feel the clen. It means you aren't using way too high of a dosage.

 

[GreekStud]

2 weeks off isn't enough time to reset the beta receptors. It makes the most sense to do 10 week cycles of clen where you slowly increase the dosage and then take a full 10 weeks off.

2 weeks on 2 weeks off makes no scientific sense.

You don't need to 'feel' the clen in order for it to work. It's actually GOOD you don't feel the clen. It means you aren't using way too high of a dosage.

I believe you, could you send me (either here or in PM) any general info about the beta receptors and their reset/recovery time?
Can't seem to find any quality info.

I agree with what you said about "feeling" the clen, but doesn't NOT having increased temperature means there is no enhanced thermogenesis?
Or am I wrong here?
I don't know the exact mechanisms Clen works.
I'm gonna continue straight with clen without 2 weeks off, should I start taking ketotifen too at 1mg a day?

 

[Masonic Bodybuilder]

The guys I see typically get actual results from clen have to run it 140-200mcg per day. That is when the really nasty side effects come in to play. That is why I hate clen. Lower doses may not give much sides but they will not give much results either.

 

[muskate]

I believe you, could you send me (either here or in PM) any general info about the beta receptors and their reset/recovery time?
Can't seem to find any quality info.

I agree with what you said about "feeling" the clen, but doesn't NOT having increased temperature means there is no enhanced thermogenesis?
Or am I wrong here?
I don't know the exact mechanisms Clen works.
I'm gonna continue straight with clen without 2 weeks off, should I start taking ketotifen too at 1mg a day?

Just go on Pubmed and do some research on clenbuterol for yourself.

Read this article I wrote on clenbuterol -> https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...effects-muskate-(trevor-kouritzin)-41090.html

I go in depth about ketotifen, clen cycles etc.

 

[GreekStud]

Just go on Pubmed and do some research on clenbuterol for yourself.

Read this article I wrote on clenbuterol -> https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...effects-muskate-(trevor-kouritzin)-41090.html

I go in depth about ketotifen, clen cycles etc.

I did read your article and I reread that now again, it clarified my thoughts about keto, but still I'm confused if normal body temperature means the drug is not working, since elevated metabolic rate is achieved by this increase in temperature.
I have steady 36.7 Celsius some days now, does that mean that the thermogenesis and the enhanced metabolic rate stopped?
I'd guess that since the drugs work this way, by elevating your temperature, it doesn't work efficiently on me right now.
Am I wrong?

 

[muskate]

I did read your article and I reread that now again, it clarified my thoughts about keto, but still I'm confused if normal body temperature means the drug is not working, since elevated metabolic rate is achieved by this increase in temperature.
I have steady 36.7 Celsius some days now, does that mean that the thermogenesis and the enhanced metabolic rate stopped?
I'd guess that since the drugs work this way, by elevating your temperature, it doesn't work efficiently on me right now.
Am I wrong?

Everyone has a different baseline body temperature.

What you need to do is record your body temperature BEFORE using the clen. When on the clen, your body temp should go up a degree or two. If your body temp goes back to baseline, then the enhanced metabolic rate has stopped.

Just recording your body weight temp without a baseline means nothing.