First Cycle Complete - Progress / Personal Experience / Advice needed

[NoobLifter]

You get the test I reccomend right,,?

Yup - I purchased the link you provided + the lipid panels. Scheduling for bloods to be drawn on Wed.

 

[NoobLifter]

Does anyone have any comment about my results? Was this typical and expected for my starting stats? again i didn't really lose my weight but gained muscle mass + drop BF.

 

[ski1717]

what's done is done, I would definitely not do it again. I do believe discipline is discipline whether natty or aas use, it's all a complete learned behavior. it sounds like your ready for a total mental change. look, we all make mistakes and staying disciplined with diet 365 for some is not realistic. do I have some wks throughout the year when I binge on my favorite foods sure. just follow through with your healthy plan and hopefully your bloods will not be too harsh and you will recover with the perfect pct. you did make progress, but you would even agree that it was reckless haha lol.

 

[NICKNICK]

..could you guys please clarify exactly what this guy did so wrong? and why its wrong? was it the mix of stuff in the cycle? the amount? the fact he had high BF befor he sarted? ...all of the bove?

 

[NoobLifter]

..could you guys please clarify exactly what this guy did so wrong? and why its wrong? was it the mix of stuff in the cycle? the amount? the fact he had high BF befor he sarted? ...all of the bove?

I'll take a stab as I think I understand why the pushback:

1. High BF = higher chance of estrogen converting which = gyno related issues: Did not exp any of this.
2. Diet was not in check / could've dropped naturally - this is a indication that self discipline was not present, so instead of jumping the gun most would advise that I discipline myself first.
3. Possibility that the amount of gear i used was excessive? maybe I could've achieved my current physical status on just Test alone so possibility of wasting money? - Assuming money is not a huge consideration factor this was a non issue for me
4. Waste of Gear as well because maybe If I had all other factors in check I would've seen greater results than current status?
5. I should've drawn BW before to get a baseline?
6. Others might suggest that I put myself at risk for not running HCG from the get go so that my natural test production would not have shut down entirely.

 

[muskate]

Hey all -

I wanted to share my experience with everyone in re to my cycle as well as my results. Pictures will speak for my progress...

Let me start off by acknowledging that I went against the grain and traditional advice of any Veteran here would advise... the back story to this is that I had jumped head first before even researching and I made an initial post asking people's opinion, but in reality I had already started my cycle and I went against the traditional collective wisdom of the group.

This is the story of my journey starting in May this yr - I'm not endorsing that this is the right path for any beginner.

Here's my starting stats:
Age:34
Height: 5' 6"
Weight: 180 - 185lbs (depending what day I measured myself)
BF:28-30% (depending what day I measured myself)

I've been doing crossfit on and off for the past 5 years, there would be periods where I would do crossfit 6 days a week for 6+ months straight and then I'd get bored or busy with life and would only do it 2x a week just to maintain some sort of exercise. Prior to crossfit I'd lift weight at the local gym and have been doing it since my early 20's.

In April I decided to go back just lifting weights and focus on getting back in shape, my goal was to drop BF% down to 15% level, i wasn't too concerned with weight. At the time I invested in a PT in order to form a new habit of waking up early in the AM to workout but also to get that extra motivation that was needed for me to be where I am at today. Through my PT, i was introduced to AAS as an option to build muscle and cut BF% as an aid and to achieve my goals faster. As those who are overweight may know, if someone offers you a way for you get lean and lose your gut, your biased and inclined to try something new, for me I recognized that AAS would be a boost to help me achieve my goal faster, I never had the thought that it was a magic pill and nothing else would be required for me to transform. I knew diet was 80% the key to success as that's the foundation, everything else are just helped contributed.

What was initially recommended to me was Test, Anavar, & Winny. What I ended up stacking was Test, Tren, Anavar & Winny. Yes - first cycle, high BF! - huge risk on all aspects - I didn't learn about the risks until 2 weeks after when I started to do my research and not just blindly trust my PT. By the time 2 weeks had lapsed, I decided to still stay on AAS despite all the risks simply because I was taking low dosages & not experiencing any negative sides like everyone lists for each AAS.

While on AAS my diet and training regiment has been:
Gym 7x a week, on weekdays M-F it would be a double session, Fasted Cardio in the AM for 1 hr and then weights for 1hr in the afternoon + 30 min cardio if time permits. Sat & Sun 1 hr cardio or 1 hr weights.

Diet I tried to keep it as simple as possible, ~1500 cal per day w/ 200-250g of protein, 50g of Fat & Carbs, no sugar, no processed food, no fruits. I was 80-85% consistent with this plan, there would be cheat days, but I tried to limit it to just a meal if I cheated.

I also took: Liv52, Fish Oil, CLA, Milk Thistle, and BCAA's.

1 gallon of water everyday, but I was only able to achieve this in the latter half of my cycle.

Tren Ace 100 / Test E 250/300 / Anavar and Winstrol

My first bottle of Test was from Iron Star Labs (250 mg / ml)
2nd bottle of Test E is from Pharmacom.
(Tren, Anavar, & Winstrol is all Pharmacom)

The cycle and dosage that I took:
Week 1 - Week 3: Tren 100mg EOD (300mg Weekly) / Anavar 50mg ED (350mg Weekly) / Winstrol 25mg ED (175mg Weekly) / Test E 250mg EW

Week 4 - Week 6: Tren 150mg EOD (450mg Weekly) / Anavar 50mg ED (350mg Weekly) / Winstrol 50mg ED (350mg Weekly) / Test E 375mg EW

Week 7 - Week 8:
Tren 100mg ED (700mg Weekly) / Anavar 60mg ED (420mg Weekly) / Winstrol 60mg ED (420mg Weekly) / Test E 400mg EW

Week 9 - Week 10
Tren 175mg EOD (700mg Weekly) / Anavar 70mg ED (490mg Weekly) / Winstrol 70mg ED (490mg Weekly) / Test E 400mg EW / Albuterol 32mg ED (224G EW)

Week 11 - Week 12:
Tren 175mg EOD (700mg Weekly) / Test E 400mg EW / Albuterol 32mg ED (224g EW) / HCG 500iu EOD / Arimidex .5 EOD

The reason why I increased the dosage is because I did not experience any physical sides that are negative to me. And since I saw great results, with only a few weeks left in my cycle, I just want to maximize my gains. The other reason is because I wanted to see if my body would react differently at different dosage, you will also notice that I added HCG at the end of my cycle, I didn't learn of HCG until I hit my 8 week mark and wasn't aware that Test and Tren would shut me down hard and with a 12 week cycle HCG would help keep with things running and not shut off completely.

I did not have any gyno issues, sex drive is as if i was in college. The only 4 sides that I noticed was elevated body temp (this is random and not always consistent), night sweats, not getting a full 100% sleep at night every 2-3 hours I would wake up and would fall back asleep, some minor insomnia but nothing bad & and acne on chest & back. On week 12 I started to have nosebleeds, but this happened 2x so far.

I am now waiting for 2 weeks to past before I start my PCT cycle, here is what I have planned based on the advice given to me so far:

Week 13 - Continue HCG for 1 more week at 500 IU EOD
Week 14 - Nothing

Week 15 - Clomid 100 & Nolva 40 ED
Week 16 - Clomid 100 & Nolva 40 ED
Week 17 - Clomid 50 & Nolva 20 ED
Week 18 - Clomid 50 & Nolva 20 ED
Week 19 - Clomid 50 & Nolva 20 ED

I recognize that the 2nd biggest challenge and hurdle now is to restart my body's natural production, and I'm no way in the clear as of yet and I hope that nothing serious or unrecoverable will occur. I plan on getting blood work to after PCT to see where I stand with Lipid profile, Blood pressure, Hormone levels,
T4/thyroid, & Liver enzymes.

My ending stats now is:
Weight: 170lbs
BF: 15-17%? there's a fluctuation since I've been using the handheld BF monitor and I know that's not accurate.

Pics below of my transformation: Just for context, back in 2012 I lost weight and BF naturally, it took me 6 months and while I achieved my goal, I was lean and did not have any size, the bottom pics is for comparison so you can see the diff in weight drop naturally vs with AAS.

View attachment 10797

So here's my question to the community...
1. Should I draw bloods now to see where my levels are at and then again after PCT is complete?
2. Should I increase the dosage of Clomid & Nolva or is that sufficient?
3. The drastic changes that I personally experienced, how much do you all think it could have been achieved with just a simple Test Cycle? I personally don't feel that I could have dropped the BF% like I did while building muscle mass without the help of AAS.
4. What other hurdles should I expect now?

I'll end this post with re-iterating that I'm well aware that the cycle I put myself through is something everyone would disagree with; Personally for me, it's been worth it based on the change that I've experienced and I still have a lot more to learn but it's been a great experience

Thoughts / comments / feedback good, bad negative all welcome...

Ok. FIRST thing - STOP listening to your personal trainer. He is an idiot. I am normally pretty open minded but the cycle you ran, even some professional bodybuilders I know would consider crazy. That is like a Ronnie Coleman stack. Especially for your first cycle, HORRIBLE idea.

Run the perfect PCT protocol. http://www.evolutionary.org/the-perfect-post-cycle-therapy-pct/

That cycle you did was extremely aggressive and your body is going to be MAJORLY suppressed. Your body is going to be in a very delicate state after that cycle. Run the protocol exactly as it is listed and don't cut any corners. Get blood work done 4-5 weeks after your PCT is finished to make sure everything is back within normal range.

Last thing I'll add. HCG usage is really counter productive. HCG is some nasty stuff. It actually raises estrogen levels and often is what CAUSES the gyno people experience from their cycle. http://www.evolutionary.org/hcg-dangers-exposed/
What you want is HCGenerate ES. HCGenerate ES is the strongest natural testerone booster on the market. It is a herbal formula that will increase testerone levels, increase your bodies LH hormone and keep suppression of your natural testerone production to a minimum during your cycle. It will keep testicular atrophy to a minimum throughout your cycle.

 

[muskate]

Does anyone have any comment about my results? Was this typical and expected for my starting stats? again i didn't really lose my weight but gained muscle mass + drop BF.

You got great results, no questioning that, but unfortunately, I am going to suspect that the majority of the gains won't be keepable and you will loose ALOT of the results when you finish your PCT.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that was a really crazy first cycle you ran.

 

[NoobLifter]

You got great results, no questioning that, but unfortunately, I am going to suspect that the majority of the gains won't be keepable and you will loose ALOT of the results when you finish your PCT.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that was a really crazy first cycle you ran.

So this is what I am curious about and still am trying to research and understand... One of the purposes of PCT is to keep the gains aside from restarting natural production. I didn't gain any weight - are you saying that muscle atrophy will occur and any muscle gains would be lost regardless? What I took stacked together was more or less for cutting not bulking so why would there be a huge lost in my gains?

Considering all other factors constant - diet is kept in check as well as training regiment. Not arguing - trying to understand the science or facts here. I'm not doubting that there is going to be some lost but to say 50-75%+ lost in gains doesn't comprehend to me. It's like saying my true weight should actually be 150lbs and not 170lbs on where I am at and that BF % is going to be less then my current status?

 

[gearhead]

bro if you do a full PCT you wont get muscle atrophy...you got nothing to worry about

 

[LevButlerov]

Thanks for sharing, but please - do not take this kind of risks in future. You need more ancillaries on such a cycle, and the PCT must be the perfect PCT - no less. The fact that you did not suffer any side effects before, or during this cycle does not mean that you may not experience them in future cycles - that's the point of side effects - you never know when they will appear and if the will do so.

In any case, thanks for sharing your story here, and I hope it will be a lesson to many, that things got to be done properly in order to avoid unnecessary risks.

 

[muskate]

So this is what I am curious about and still am trying to research and understand... One of the purposes of PCT is to keep the gains aside from restarting natural production. I didn't gain any weight - are you saying that muscle atrophy will occur and any muscle gains would be lost regardless? What I took stacked together was more or less for cutting not bulking so why would there be a huge lost in my gains?

Considering all other factors constant - diet is kept in check as well as training regiment. Not arguing - trying to understand the science or facts here. I'm not doubting that there is going to be some lost but to say 50-75%+ lost in gains doesn't comprehend to me. It's like saying my true weight should actually be 150lbs and not 170lbs on where I am at and that BF % is going to be less then my current status?

You didn't gain any scale weight because you simultaneously gained muscle while loosing body fat. I suspect that during your PCT, the opposite will occur.

The scale is just a number. It doesn't take into account what the weight compromises of.

 

[Kman61]

Hey all -

I wanted to share my experience with everyone in re to my cycle as well as my results. Pictures will speak for my progress...

Let me start off by acknowledging that I went against the grain and traditional advice of any Veteran here would advise... the back story to this is that I had jumped head first before even researching and I made an initial post asking people's opinion, but in reality I had already started my cycle and I went against the traditional collective wisdom of the group.

This is the story of my journey starting in May this yr - I'm not endorsing that this is the right path for any beginner.

Here's my starting stats:
Age:34
Height: 5' 6"
Weight: 180 - 185lbs (depending what day I measured myself)
BF:28-30% (depending what day I measured myself)

I've been doing crossfit on and off for the past 5 years, there would be periods where I would do crossfit 6 days a week for 6+ months straight and then I'd get bored or busy with life and would only do it 2x a week just to maintain some sort of exercise. Prior to crossfit I'd lift weight at the local gym and have been doing it since my early 20's.

In April I decided to go back just lifting weights and focus on getting back in shape, my goal was to drop BF% down to 15% level, i wasn't too concerned with weight. At the time I invested in a PT in order to form a new habit of waking up early in the AM to workout but also to get that extra motivation that was needed for me to be where I am at today. Through my PT, i was introduced to AAS as an option to build muscle and cut BF% as an aid and to achieve my goals faster. As those who are overweight may know, if someone offers you a way for you get lean and lose your gut, your biased and inclined to try something new, for me I recognized that AAS would be a boost to help me achieve my goal faster, I never had the thought that it was a magic pill and nothing else would be required for me to transform. I knew diet was 80% the key to success as that's the foundation, everything else are just helped contributed.

What was initially recommended to me was Test, Anavar, & Winny. What I ended up stacking was Test, Tren, Anavar & Winny. Yes - first cycle, high BF! - huge risk on all aspects - I didn't learn about the risks until 2 weeks after when I started to do my research and not just blindly trust my PT. By the time 2 weeks had lapsed, I decided to still stay on AAS despite all the risks simply because I was taking low dosages & not experiencing any negative sides like everyone lists for each AAS.

While on AAS my diet and training regiment has been:
Gym 7x a week, on weekdays M-F it would be a double session, Fasted Cardio in the AM for 1 hr and then weights for 1hr in the afternoon + 30 min cardio if time permits. Sat & Sun 1 hr cardio or 1 hr weights.

Diet I tried to keep it as simple as possible, ~1500 cal per day w/ 200-250g of protein, 50g of Fat & Carbs, no sugar, no processed food, no fruits. I was 80-85% consistent with this plan, there would be cheat days, but I tried to limit it to just a meal if I cheated.

I also took: Liv52, Fish Oil, CLA, Milk Thistle, and BCAA's.

1 gallon of water everyday, but I was only able to achieve this in the latter half of my cycle.

Tren Ace 100 / Test E 250/300 / Anavar and Winstrol

My first bottle of Test was from Iron Star Labs (250 mg / ml)
2nd bottle of Test E is from Pharmacom.
(Tren, Anavar, & Winstrol is all Pharmacom)

The cycle and dosage that I took:
Week 1 - Week 3: Tren 100mg EOD (300mg Weekly) / Anavar 50mg ED (350mg Weekly) / Winstrol 25mg ED (175mg Weekly) / Test E 250mg EW

Week 4 - Week 6: Tren 150mg EOD (450mg Weekly) / Anavar 50mg ED (350mg Weekly) / Winstrol 50mg ED (350mg Weekly) / Test E 375mg EW

Week 7 - Week 8:
Tren 100mg ED (700mg Weekly) / Anavar 60mg ED (420mg Weekly) / Winstrol 60mg ED (420mg Weekly) / Test E 400mg EW

Week 9 - Week 10
Tren 175mg EOD (700mg Weekly) / Anavar 70mg ED (490mg Weekly) / Winstrol 70mg ED (490mg Weekly) / Test E 400mg EW / Albuterol 32mg ED (224G EW)

Week 11 - Week 12:
Tren 175mg EOD (700mg Weekly) / Test E 400mg EW / Albuterol 32mg ED (224g EW) / HCG 500iu EOD / Arimidex .5 EOD

The reason why I increased the dosage is because I did not experience any physical sides that are negative to me. And since I saw great results, with only a few weeks left in my cycle, I just want to maximize my gains. The other reason is because I wanted to see if my body would react differently at different dosage, you will also notice that I added HCG at the end of my cycle, I didn't learn of HCG until I hit my 8 week mark and wasn't aware that Test and Tren would shut me down hard and with a 12 week cycle HCG would help keep with things running and not shut off completely.

I did not have any gyno issues, sex drive is as if i was in college. The only 4 sides that I noticed was elevated body temp (this is random and not always consistent), night sweats, not getting a full 100% sleep at night every 2-3 hours I would wake up and would fall back asleep, some minor insomnia but nothing bad & and acne on chest & back. On week 12 I started to have nosebleeds, but this happened 2x so far.

I am now waiting for 2 weeks to past before I start my PCT cycle, here is what I have planned based on the advice given to me so far:

Week 13 - Continue HCG for 1 more week at 500 IU EOD
Week 14 - Nothing

Week 15 - Clomid 100 & Nolva 40 ED
Week 16 - Clomid 100 & Nolva 40 ED
Week 17 - Clomid 50 & Nolva 20 ED
Week 18 - Clomid 50 & Nolva 20 ED
Week 19 - Clomid 50 & Nolva 20 ED

I recognize that the 2nd biggest challenge and hurdle now is to restart my body's natural production, and I'm no way in the clear as of yet and I hope that nothing serious or unrecoverable will occur. I plan on getting blood work to after PCT to see where I stand with Lipid profile, Blood pressure, Hormone levels,
T4/thyroid, & Liver enzymes.

My ending stats now is:
Weight: 170lbs
BF: 15-17%? there's a fluctuation since I've been using the handheld BF monitor and I know that's not accurate.

Pics below of my transformation: Just for context, back in 2012 I lost weight and BF naturally, it took me 6 months and while I achieved my goal, I was lean and did not have any size, the bottom pics is for comparison so you can see the diff in weight drop naturally vs with AAS.

View attachment 10797

So here's my question to the community...
1. Should I draw bloods now to see where my levels are at and then again after PCT is complete?
2. Should I increase the dosage of Clomid & Nolva or is that sufficient?
3. The drastic changes that I personally experienced, how much do you all think it could have been achieved with just a simple Test Cycle? I personally don't feel that I could have dropped the BF% like I did while building muscle mass without the help of AAS.
4. What other hurdles should I expect now?

I'll end this post with re-iterating that I'm well aware that the cycle I put myself through is something everyone would disagree with; Personally for me, it's been worth it based on the change that I've experienced and I still have a lot more to learn but it's been a great experience

Thoughts / comments / feedback good, bad negative all welcome...

OUCH! Crazy gear cycle. I will not even comment on what to expect after this kind of cycle... Not well advised at all.... Don't really understand the goals or what you intended to accomplish. I would check my bloods... clean up my diet, watch my training for like a year (or more) and then re-group. If AAS still makes sense I would consider a really simple cycle. TIFWIW.

 

[NoobLifter]

You didn't gain any scale weight because you simultaneously gained muscle while loosing body fat. I suspect that during your PCT, the opposite will occur.

The scale is just a number. It doesn't take into account what the weight compromises of.

Any facts or articles to support this opinion? What's the point of running the perfect PCT if all is lost? or whats the point of running AAS if all would be lost?

 

[NoobLifter]

OUCH! Crazy gear cycle. I will not even comment on what to expect after this kind of cycle... Not well advised at all.... Don't really understand the goals or what you intended to accomplish. I would check my bloods... clean up my diet, watch my training for like a year (or more) and then re-group. If AAS still makes sense I would consider a really simple cycle. TIFWIW.

I already said from the get go this cycle is against the grain and against general consensus - in the end, I achieved what I was seeking, a drop in BF% while building/retaining some muscle mass vs a complete drop in weight and just leaning out.

I'm looking forward to the next 3 months when PCT is finished and I reflect back to see if all crazy predictions of how my body will crash and all gains will be lost come to fruition or not... Like I said, with all other factors being constant, training, diet, discipline, I can;t grasp or understand the reversal of my progress because AAS is not present?

Everyone says AAS is not a miracle drug and you gotta put in the effort and dedication to achieve your gains or results... if all believes in this, then it feels contradictory to what I'm reading because it appears that the message and opinion is that my current status is 100% due to AAS and I could have sat on my ass and not alter any other part of my lifestyle to be where I am at?

Bloods is scheduled for Thursday so we will see soon enough what's happening internally.

 

[hurricane]

Any facts or articles to support this opinion? What's the point of running the perfect PCT if all is lost? or whats the point of running AAS if all would be lost?

you wont lose it all bro,not close to that.But even with the best pct, you are bound to lose a bit.Why some guys who dont need trt,never come off

 

[NoobLifter]

you wont lose it all bro,not close to that.But even with the best pct, you are bound to lose a bit.Why some guys who dont need trt,never come off

Yea - I expect to lose 15-20%, I don't expect to retain it all - but from muskate's post it sounds like I'm going to lose northward of 50% of my gains.

 

[NY REBEL]

Yea - I expect to lose 15-20%, I don't expect to retain it all - but from muskate's post it sounds like I'm going to lose northward of 50% of my gains.

There's a ton of variables.. How you train , recover, diet.. Etc. There's absolutely no way you can put a numerical percentage on expected loss. Just do you best with those variables.

 

[NoobLifter]

There's a ton of variables.. How you train , recover, diet.. Etc. There's absolutely no way you can put a numerical percentage on expected loss. Just do you best with those variables.

Thanks... I'm looking forward to the BW... Can't wait to see what's happening internally... On a side note, I did purchase a BP monitor. My BP is 105 SYS / 65 DIA - everything normal according to acceptable ranges.

I believe one of the risks of my cycle was elevated BP due to the high BF% as well right?

 

[NY REBEL]

Thanks... I'm looking forward to the BW... Can't wait to see what's happening internally... On a side note, I did purchase a BP monitor. My BP is 105 SYS / 65 DIA - everything normal according to acceptable ranges.

I believe one of the risks of my cycle was elevated BP due to the high BF% as well right?

It can be yea. Are you off yet? You cholesterol could be high as well.. Liver enzymes etc. I'm looking forward to the bloods as well.

 

[NoobLifter]

It can be yea. Are you off yet? You cholesterol could be high as well.. Liver enzymes etc. I'm looking forward to the bloods as well.

Yes - I'm off - last pin of Test & Tren was last Friday 7/31