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Approved Log First PED Pre-Cycle Training

joe-johnson

V.I.P.
EVO Logger
Current Stats (as of June 5th, 2025):

Height: 6’2

Weight: 185

Lifting Experience: 2-3 Years

Age: 21

Workout Frequency: 6 On, 1 Off

Workout Split: THU=Upper Posterior Chain+Side Delts, FRI=Lower Posterior Chain+Biceps, SAT=Push+Core, SUN=THU, MON=FRI, TUES=SAT, WED=Off, Repeat

(I either walk or run to and from the gym everyday for some cardio, 20min walk there and back, 40min total.)

Diet: Clean, High Protein, Minimal
Processed Foods (Fast food meal occasionally), High Carb, Caloric Surplus, Water and Dairy only for liquids.

Exact Macros: Unknown as of now, haven’t really kept track of macros as I gain healthy weight on my current diet, also born with high metabolism. This will change once I hop on cycle.

BF: Around 15-17%

Current Lifts for Strength Profile:
Strict Lateral Raise: 30LB 3x10-12
Plate Loaded Flat Chest Press: 290Lb 3x8
Cable Lat Pull-Down (Wide Grip): 180LB 4x10
Body Weight Pull Ups: 3x12-15
Tricep Pushdown: 50LB 4x10
Preacher Curl: 100LB 4x10
RDL: 245LB 3x8
Zercher Squat: 275LB 3x8
T-Bar Row: 205LB 3x8
Shoulder Press: 75LB 4x8

^ These are estimates, I don’t keep exact records of my lifts anymore. This will obviously change when starting my anticipated cycle.

*Important* - I take Vyvanse 15MG XR 3-4 times a week for my ADHD

Current Supps I Take Daily:
D3 + K2
Biotin
Fish Oil
Zinc
B12
Creatine HCL

Sleep: A minimum of 8 hours a day, sometimes more.

Below is my anticipated cycle and the two possible options I’m weighing for moving forward, this was directly copied from a thread I posted not too long ago:

‘Before you gear heads reply “Just inject pussy,” needles are off the table (for now). I’m 21, been strictly lifting for 2-3 years and currently sitting at 185lbs at 6’2 (15-17% BF). Again, before you reply saying “your too young”, my decision has been made it’s simply a matter of what compounds.

My goal is to achieve a dry look and ideally bump up those LBs, but body recomp at 185lbs is more of a priority. While focusing on all of this, I obviously want to minimize suppression and/or shutdown as much as possible. Any minimization of sides like hair loss, acne, etc would be icing on the cake.

I’m between Ostarine and RAD140, both with Enclo throughout the entirety of the cycle. The cycle will span 6 weeks only with a Enclo-PCT that will range from 1-3 weeks depending on the SARM chosen. I’m aware RAD is much more suppressive than Ostarine, but RAD also has a higher reward output than Ostarine, as well as it aligns well with my goals. The dosages for the two differing cycles is as follows:

RAD140 - 10MG every 48Hrs for 6 Weeks
Enclo - 12.5MG every 24Hrs for 9 Weeks

Ostarine - 20MG every 24Hrs for 6 Weeks
Enclo - 12.5MG every 24Hrs for 7-8 Weeks

Liver support and other supplements to aid will be taken for both possible cycles. Im avoiding the common trend of taking RAD140 everyday as it has an expected half-life of 48-72hrs. My questions to y’all is which would you choose if you were in my shoes, and why? Would you make any changes to the dosage or recommend a different oral for my provided goals? All advice related to the topic is greatly appreciated, and if you’ve gotten this far into my post, thank you for your time.’

At the end of the day I’m chasing that athletic and lean V-Taper, prime David Laid. Right now I have the frame for it, I just don’t got the muscle and definition. End goal is 200LBs+ but for me I don’t see that as plausible until I start injecting when I’m older. With this being the case, body recomp + some added mass is the focus for now.
 
Post pictures. You at a good age. Don't need to inject yet. Imo do like
Weeks 1-8
Enclomiphene 12.5 mg a day
Cardarine 20 mg a day
Stenabolic SR-9009 20 mg precardio
Weeks 9-12
Rad-140 10 mg a day
Enclo 12.5 mg a day
Weeks 13-16
Rad-40 20 mg a day
Enclomiphene 25 mg a day

Weeks 17-20
Enclomiphene 25 mg a day
Tamoxifrn 40 mg 2 week 20 mg 2 week, or
Clomid 50 mg 2 weeks 25 mg 2 weeks,
or both.

You need to be leaner before you bulk. Take it from me.
 
Do it everyday not EOD. Also 6 weeks way too short and have others chime in about the length maybe cut 6 weeks bulk 6 weeks pct 3 weeks. Way better.
 
Post pictures. You at a good age. Don't need to inject yet. Imo do like
Weeks 1-8
Enclomiphene 12.5 mg a day
Cardarine 20 mg a day
Stenabolic SR-9009 20 mg precardio
Weeks 9-12
Rad-140 10 mg a day
Enclo 12.5 mg a day
Weeks 13-16
Rad-40 20 mg a day
Enclomiphene 25 mg a day

Weeks 17-20
Enclomiphene 25 mg a day
Tamoxifrn 40 mg 2 week 20 mg 2 week, or
Clomid 50 mg 2 weeks 25 mg 2 weeks,
or both.

You need to be leaner before you bulk. Take it from me.
 

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Honestly, better than expected.

Weeks 1-6
Enclo 12.5 mg ed
Cardarine GW 20 mg ed

Weeks 7-9
Rad 10 mg ed
Enclo 18.75 mg ed

Weeks 10-12
Rad 20 mg ed
Enclo 25 mg ed

Weeks 13-16
Enclo 25 mg ed
Nolvadex/tamoxifen 40/40/20/20
Clomid 50/50/25/25

EDIT****
SHOW DA LEGS!
 
Honestly, better than expected.

Weeks 1-6
Enclo 12.5 mg ed
Cardarine GW 20 mg ed

Weeks 7-9
Rad 10 mg ed
Enclo 18.75 mg ed

Weeks 10-12
Rad 20 mg ed
Enclo 25 mg ed

Weeks 13-16
Enclo 25 mg ed
Nolvadex/tamoxifen 40/40/20/20
Clomid 50/50/25/25

EDIT****
SHOW DA LEGS!
Ask and you shall receive, and yes I am standing on my sink for this.
 

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Current Stats (as of June 5th, 2025):

Height: 6’2

Weight: 185

Lifting Experience: 2-3 Years

Age: 21

Workout Frequency: 6 On, 1 Off

Workout Split: THU=Upper Posterior Chain+Side Delts, FRI=Lower Posterior Chain+Biceps, SAT=Push+Core, SUN=THU, MON=FRI, TUES=SAT, WED=Off, Repeat

(I either walk or run to and from the gym everyday for some cardio, 20min walk there and back, 40min total.)

Diet: Clean, High Protein, Minimal
Processed Foods (Fast food meal occasionally), High Carb, Caloric Surplus, Water and Dairy only for liquids.

Exact Macros: Unknown as of now, haven’t really kept track of macros as I gain healthy weight on my current diet, also born with high metabolism. This will change once I hop on cycle.

BF: Around 15-17%

Current Lifts for Strength Profile:
Strict Lateral Raise: 30LB 3x10-12
Plate Loaded Flat Chest Press: 290Lb 3x8
Cable Lat Pull-Down (Wide Grip): 180LB 4x10
Body Weight Pull Ups: 3x12-15
Tricep Pushdown: 50LB 4x10
Preacher Curl: 100LB 4x10
RDL: 245LB 3x8
Zercher Squat: 275LB 3x8
T-Bar Row: 205LB 3x8
Shoulder Press: 75LB 4x8

^ These are estimates, I don’t keep exact records of my lifts anymore. This will obviously change when starting my anticipated cycle.

*Important* - I take Vyvanse 15MG XR 3-4 times a week for my ADHD

Current Supps I Take Daily:
D3 + K2
Biotin
Fish Oil
Zinc
B12
Creatine HCL

Sleep: A minimum of 8 hours a day, sometimes more.

Below is my anticipated cycle and the two possible options I’m weighing for moving forward, this was directly copied from a thread I posted not too long ago:

‘Before you gear heads reply “Just inject pussy,” needles are off the table (for now). I’m 21, been strictly lifting for 2-3 years and currently sitting at 185lbs at 6’2 (15-17% BF). Again, before you reply saying “your too young”, my decision has been made it’s simply a matter of what compounds.

My goal is to achieve a dry look and ideally bump up those LBs, but body recomp at 185lbs is more of a priority. While focusing on all of this, I obviously want to minimize suppression and/or shutdown as much as possible. Any minimization of sides like hair loss, acne, etc would be icing on the cake.

I’m between Ostarine and RAD140, both with Enclo throughout the entirety of the cycle. The cycle will span 6 weeks only with a Enclo-PCT that will range from 1-3 weeks depending on the SARM chosen. I’m aware RAD is much more suppressive than Ostarine, but RAD also has a higher reward output than Ostarine, as well as it aligns well with my goals. The dosages for the two differing cycles is as follows:

RAD140 - 10MG every 48Hrs for 6 Weeks
Enclo - 12.5MG every 24Hrs for 9 Weeks

Ostarine - 20MG every 24Hrs for 6 Weeks
Enclo - 12.5MG every 24Hrs for 7-8 Weeks

Liver support and other supplements to aid will be taken for both possible cycles. Im avoiding the common trend of taking RAD140 everyday as it has an expected half-life of 48-72hrs. My questions to y’all is which would you choose if you were in my shoes, and why? Would you make any changes to the dosage or recommend a different oral for my provided goals? All advice related to the topic is greatly appreciated, and if you’ve gotten this far into my post, thank you for your time.’

At the end of the day I’m chasing that athletic and lean V-Taper, prime David Laid. Right now I have the frame for it, I just don’t got the muscle and definition. End goal is 200LBs+ but for me I don’t see that as plausible until I start injecting when I’m older. With this being the case, body recomp + some added mass is the focus for now.

Ask and you shall receive, and yes I am standing on my sink for this.
@joe-johnson good log start :D you are now in the EVO family.

You do have a very good base, some mass, but I don't think we should talk cycles yet.
Start by sharing more info. Diet training routine, help us understand you more before sarms or cycles.

Please share more day to day information with us.

Diet, Training, Cardio
Diet, please share foods and meals and when you eat them, macros would be good
Training, please share actual exercises reps sets and weights, as you go especially get stronger
cardio how much do you do? when etc
If you don't log what you eat or train now, open NOTES on phone and start recording it there and paste here. Very easy.

supplements
what digestive supps you use?
digestive enzymes?
multis?
probiotics?
psyllium husk?

pictures
pics of your meals as you go
pics of your training as you go
pics of your supps
pics of your gear

eBooks
download our eBooks and learn more about cycling:
https://irongorillas.com

Podcast
are you listening to our podcast? if not, you should:
https://www.evolutionary.org/podcasts/

thank you and share more :)
 
Current Stats (as of June 5th, 2025):

Height: 6’2

Weight: 185

Lifting Experience: 2-3 Years

Age: 21

Workout Frequency: 6 On, 1 Off

Workout Split: THU=Upper Posterior Chain+Side Delts, FRI=Lower Posterior Chain+Biceps, SAT=Push+Core, SUN=THU, MON=FRI, TUES=SAT, WED=Off, Repeat

(I either walk or run to and from the gym everyday for some cardio, 20min walk there and back, 40min total.)

Diet: Clean, High Protein, Minimal
Processed Foods (Fast food meal occasionally), High Carb, Caloric Surplus, Water and Dairy only for liquids.

Exact Macros: Unknown as of now, haven’t really kept track of macros as I gain healthy weight on my current diet, also born with high metabolism. This will change once I hop on cycle.

BF: Around 15-17%

Current Lifts for Strength Profile:
Strict Lateral Raise: 30LB 3x10-12
Plate Loaded Flat Chest Press: 290Lb 3x8
Cable Lat Pull-Down (Wide Grip): 180LB 4x10
Body Weight Pull Ups: 3x12-15
Tricep Pushdown: 50LB 4x10
Preacher Curl: 100LB 4x10
RDL: 245LB 3x8
Zercher Squat: 275LB 3x8
T-Bar Row: 205LB 3x8
Shoulder Press: 75LB 4x8

^ These are estimates, I don’t keep exact records of my lifts anymore. This will obviously change when starting my anticipated cycle.

*Important* - I take Vyvanse 15MG XR 3-4 times a week for my ADHD

Current Supps I Take Daily:
D3 + K2
Biotin
Fish Oil
Zinc
B12
Creatine HCL

Sleep: A minimum of 8 hours a day, sometimes more.

Below is my anticipated cycle and the two possible options I’m weighing for moving forward, this was directly copied from a thread I posted not too long ago:

‘Before you gear heads reply “Just inject pussy,” needles are off the table (for now). I’m 21, been strictly lifting for 2-3 years and currently sitting at 185lbs at 6’2 (15-17% BF). Again, before you reply saying “your too young”, my decision has been made it’s simply a matter of what compounds.

My goal is to achieve a dry look and ideally bump up those LBs, but body recomp at 185lbs is more of a priority. While focusing on all of this, I obviously want to minimize suppression and/or shutdown as much as possible. Any minimization of sides like hair loss, acne, etc would be icing on the cake.

I’m between Ostarine and RAD140, both with Enclo throughout the entirety of the cycle. The cycle will span 6 weeks only with a Enclo-PCT that will range from 1-3 weeks depending on the SARM chosen. I’m aware RAD is much more suppressive than Ostarine, but RAD also has a higher reward output than Ostarine, as well as it aligns well with my goals. The dosages for the two differing cycles is as follows:

RAD140 - 10MG every 48Hrs for 6 Weeks
Enclo - 12.5MG every 24Hrs for 9 Weeks

Ostarine - 20MG every 24Hrs for 6 Weeks
Enclo - 12.5MG every 24Hrs for 7-8 Weeks

Liver support and other supplements to aid will be taken for both possible cycles. Im avoiding the common trend of taking RAD140 everyday as it has an expected half-life of 48-72hrs. My questions to y’all is which would you choose if you were in my shoes, and why? Would you make any changes to the dosage or recommend a different oral for my provided goals? All advice related to the topic is greatly appreciated, and if you’ve gotten this far into my post, thank you for your time.’

At the end of the day I’m chasing that athletic and lean V-Taper, prime David Laid. Right now I have the frame for it, I just don’t got the muscle and definition. End goal is 200LBs+ but for me I don’t see that as plausible until I start injecting when I’m older. With this being the case, body recomp + some added mass is the focus for now.
@joe-johnson
very good job using sarms at your age. you will have plenty of time in the future for steroids. the one thing i would change is don't use enclo on cycle. i'm not sure why people are doing that. is it some tiktok or instagram bro science thing?
 
@joe-johnson
very good job using sarms at your age. you will have plenty of time in the future for steroids. the one thing i would change is don't use enclo on cycle. i'm not sure why people are doing that. is it some tiktok or instagram bro science thing?
It maintains natural test and studies show it keeps test production while on cycle and during pct. It is actually pretty effective at stopping suppression
 
It maintains natural test and studies show it keeps test production while on cycle and during pct. It is actually pretty effective at stopping suppression
nah man. it doesn't. if it did then none of us would need trt for life from steroid abuse. it does more harm then good cause it blocks estrogen from feedbacking. def a bad idea with sarms especially.

save it for pct, not on cycle.
 
nah man. it doesn't. if it did then none of us would need trt for life from steroid abuse. it does more harm then good cause it blocks estrogen from feedbacking. def a bad idea with sarms especially.

save it for pct, not on cycle.
True, but suppression from Sarms isn't nearly as bad as real steroids imo. I'll look more into it but I'll trust you
 
True, but suppression from Sarms isn't nearly as bad as real steroids imo. I'll look more into it but I'll trust you
yeah sarms suppression is far less that is correct.

if you run bloods on steroids you will see your LH # near 0. if you go on clomid for 4 weeks then retest you will see LH still near 0. the bloodwork will prove what i am saying. there is no magic way to prevent suppression, it is part of the game. in the old days guys would use SERM's on cycle cause that is all they had access to, especially nolva.. but it wasn't to prevent suppression it was to help control estrogen. which it did a very mediocre job of. then AI's came along and smart people moved to those. so serm's have zero benefit on cycle, they should be saved for pct as the hormones leave your system. that is where they can help
 
yeah sarms suppression is far less that is correct.

if you run bloods on steroids you will see your LH # near 0. if you go on clomid for 4 weeks then retest you will see LH still near 0. the bloodwork will prove what i am saying. there is no magic way to prevent suppression, it is part of the game. in the old days guys would use SERM's on cycle cause that is all they had access to, especially nolva.. but it wasn't to prevent suppression it was to help control estrogen. which it did a very mediocre job of. then AI's came along and smart people moved to those. so serm's have zero benefit on cycle, they should be saved for pct as the hormones leave your system. that is where they can help
Damn I didn't think about it that way, thanks man. I was just going to buy some enclo for my cycle too
 
Damn I didn't think about it that way, thanks man. I was just going to buy some enclo for my cycle too
yeah the other issues too is the sides they give you on cycle. google the side effects. one of the biggest sides is mood changes and depression. not anything we want on cycle
if you want to use something i would do some hcgenerate, it is a natural herbal and it will help the cycle run more smooth.
 
Current Stats (as of June 5th, 2025):

Height: 6’2

Weight: 185

Lifting Experience: 2-3 Years

Age: 21

Workout Frequency: 6 On, 1 Off

Workout Split: THU=Upper Posterior Chain+Side Delts, FRI=Lower Posterior Chain+Biceps, SAT=Push+Core, SUN=THU, MON=FRI, TUES=SAT, WED=Off, Repeat

(I either walk or run to and from the gym everyday for some cardio, 20min walk there and back, 40min total.)

Diet: Clean, High Protein, Minimal
Processed Foods (Fast food meal occasionally), High Carb, Caloric Surplus, Water and Dairy only for liquids.

Exact Macros: Unknown as of now, haven’t really kept track of macros as I gain healthy weight on my current diet, also born with high metabolism. This will change once I hop on cycle.

BF: Around 15-17%

Current Lifts for Strength Profile:
Strict Lateral Raise: 30LB 3x10-12
Plate Loaded Flat Chest Press: 290Lb 3x8
Cable Lat Pull-Down (Wide Grip): 180LB 4x10
Body Weight Pull Ups: 3x12-15
Tricep Pushdown: 50LB 4x10
Preacher Curl: 100LB 4x10
RDL: 245LB 3x8
Zercher Squat: 275LB 3x8
T-Bar Row: 205LB 3x8
Shoulder Press: 75LB 4x8

^ These are estimates, I don’t keep exact records of my lifts anymore. This will obviously change when starting my anticipated cycle.

*Important* - I take Vyvanse 15MG XR 3-4 times a week for my ADHD

Current Supps I Take Daily:
D3 + K2
Biotin
Fish Oil
Zinc
B12
Creatine HCL

Sleep: A minimum of 8 hours a day, sometimes more.

Below is my anticipated cycle and the two possible options I’m weighing for moving forward, this was directly copied from a thread I posted not too long ago:

‘Before you gear heads reply “Just inject pussy,” needles are off the table (for now). I’m 21, been strictly lifting for 2-3 years and currently sitting at 185lbs at 6’2 (15-17% BF). Again, before you reply saying “your too young”, my decision has been made it’s simply a matter of what compounds.

My goal is to achieve a dry look and ideally bump up those LBs, but body recomp at 185lbs is more of a priority. While focusing on all of this, I obviously want to minimize suppression and/or shutdown as much as possible. Any minimization of sides like hair loss, acne, etc would be icing on the cake.

I’m between Ostarine and RAD140, both with Enclo throughout the entirety of the cycle. The cycle will span 6 weeks only with a Enclo-PCT that will range from 1-3 weeks depending on the SARM chosen. I’m aware RAD is much more suppressive than Ostarine, but RAD also has a higher reward output than Ostarine, as well as it aligns well with my goals. The dosages for the two differing cycles is as follows:

RAD140 - 10MG every 48Hrs for 6 Weeks
Enclo - 12.5MG every 24Hrs for 9 Weeks

Ostarine - 20MG every 24Hrs for 6 Weeks
Enclo - 12.5MG every 24Hrs for 7-8 Weeks

Liver support and other supplements to aid will be taken for both possible cycles. Im avoiding the common trend of taking RAD140 everyday as it has an expected half-life of 48-72hrs. My questions to y’all is which would you choose if you were in my shoes, and why? Would you make any changes to the dosage or recommend a different oral for my provided goals? All advice related to the topic is greatly appreciated, and if you’ve gotten this far into my post, thank you for your time.’

At the end of the day I’m chasing that athletic and lean V-Taper, prime David Laid. Right now I have the frame for it, I just don’t got the muscle and definition. End goal is 200LBs+ but for me I don’t see that as plausible until I start injecting when I’m older. With this being the case, body recomp + some added mass is the focus for now.
@joe-johnson Bro. Damn, that's a lot of sleep. You getting how do you get more than 8 hours of sleep? I lucky to get 3 hours.
 
Current Stats (as of June 5th, 2025):

Height: 6’2

Weight: 185

Lifting Experience: 2-3 Years

Age: 21

Workout Frequency: 6 On, 1 Off

Workout Split: THU=Upper Posterior Chain+Side Delts, FRI=Lower Posterior Chain+Biceps, SAT=Push+Core, SUN=THU, MON=FRI, TUES=SAT, WED=Off, Repeat

(I either walk or run to and from the gym everyday for some cardio, 20min walk there and back, 40min total.)

Diet: Clean, High Protein, Minimal
Processed Foods (Fast food meal occasionally), High Carb, Caloric Surplus, Water and Dairy only for liquids.

Exact Macros: Unknown as of now, haven’t really kept track of macros as I gain healthy weight on my current diet, also born with high metabolism. This will change once I hop on cycle.

BF: Around 15-17%

Current Lifts for Strength Profile:
Strict Lateral Raise: 30LB 3x10-12
Plate Loaded Flat Chest Press: 290Lb 3x8
Cable Lat Pull-Down (Wide Grip): 180LB 4x10
Body Weight Pull Ups: 3x12-15
Tricep Pushdown: 50LB 4x10
Preacher Curl: 100LB 4x10
RDL: 245LB 3x8
Zercher Squat: 275LB 3x8
T-Bar Row: 205LB 3x8
Shoulder Press: 75LB 4x8

^ These are estimates, I don’t keep exact records of my lifts anymore. This will obviously change when starting my anticipated cycle.

*Important* - I take Vyvanse 15MG XR 3-4 times a week for my ADHD

Current Supps I Take Daily:
D3 + K2
Biotin
Fish Oil
Zinc
B12
Creatine HCL

Sleep: A minimum of 8 hours a day, sometimes more.

Below is my anticipated cycle and the two possible options I’m weighing for moving forward, this was directly copied from a thread I posted not too long ago:

‘Before you gear heads reply “Just inject pussy,” needles are off the table (for now). I’m 21, been strictly lifting for 2-3 years and currently sitting at 185lbs at 6’2 (15-17% BF). Again, before you reply saying “your too young”, my decision has been made it’s simply a matter of what compounds.

My goal is to achieve a dry look and ideally bump up those LBs, but body recomp at 185lbs is more of a priority. While focusing on all of this, I obviously want to minimize suppression and/or shutdown as much as possible. Any minimization of sides like hair loss, acne, etc would be icing on the cake.

I’m between Ostarine and RAD140, both with Enclo throughout the entirety of the cycle. The cycle will span 6 weeks only with a Enclo-PCT that will range from 1-3 weeks depending on the SARM chosen. I’m aware RAD is much more suppressive than Ostarine, but RAD also has a higher reward output than Ostarine, as well as it aligns well with my goals. The dosages for the two differing cycles is as follows:

RAD140 - 10MG every 48Hrs for 6 Weeks
Enclo - 12.5MG every 24Hrs for 9 Weeks

Ostarine - 20MG every 24Hrs for 6 Weeks
Enclo - 12.5MG every 24Hrs for 7-8 Weeks

Liver support and other supplements to aid will be taken for both possible cycles. Im avoiding the common trend of taking RAD140 everyday as it has an expected half-life of 48-72hrs. My questions to y’all is which would you choose if you were in my shoes, and why? Would you make any changes to the dosage or recommend a different oral for my provided goals? All advice related to the topic is greatly appreciated, and if you’ve gotten this far into my post, thank you for your time.’

At the end of the day I’m chasing that athletic and lean V-Taper, prime David Laid. Right now I have the frame for it, I just don’t got the muscle and definition. End goal is 200LBs+ but for me I don’t see that as plausible until I start injecting when I’m older. With this being the case, body recomp + some added mass is the focus for now.
this will be a good cycle for you. glad you are getting into bodybuilding at a young age. you have a bright future. i would do the rad ED though
@joe-johnson
 
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