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High Estrogen sides

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msimplay

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I feel like I'm having symptoms of high estrogen as I didn't have any anti aromatase during cycle. I tried to use masteron to keepn it under control which was fine for testosterone cypionate at 200mg / 400mg per week but I feel they are out of control right now @ Estrogen side effects.

I doubt it would be low estrogen buty question is how much Exemestane before I tank my e2 levels?
The estrogen sides are driving me mad and the last injection 200mg cypionate was on Monday the 8th of July

The tabs come in at 25mg.

I'm waiting for the nurse from medicheck to come on Tuesday 23rd of June.

But wondering if its safe to take a tab of exemestane while I wait as the sides are driving mad?

The anxiety mostly
 
You can take it now, and it is really the only AI to take on PCT as it controls estrogen rebound. Try 12.5mg eod, and get bloodwork.
 
P0N said:
You can take it now, and it is really the only AI to take on PCT as it controls estrogen rebound. Try 12.5mg eod, and get bloodwork.
Click to expand...

+1 this is why you take your AI from day 1 you dont wait for estrogen side effects as once you feel them its too late and you could end up with gyno which sucks....

10mg-12.5mg EOD is a good dose but as P0N said get bloods done asap as you need to see whats going on. Also if you start taking your dose prior to bloodwork not sure how quickly it will lower your estogen but you should be able to see if you are in the normal range if its in your system for a week.

- - - Updated - - -

awm1981 said:
+1 this is why you take your AI from day 1 you dont wait for estrogen side effects as once you feel them its too late and you could end up with gyno which sucks....

10mg-12.5mg EOD is a good dose but as P0N said get bloods done asap as you need to see whats going on. Also if you start taking your dose prior to bloodwork not sure how quickly it will lower your estogen but you should be able to see if you are in the normal range if its in your system for a week.
Click to expand...

Also are you done your cycle? Whats your PCT look like? If your PCT isnt adequate you could have high estrogen and obviously test is going to have dipped due to the fact that you havent dosed in about 10 days so you could also be feeling that as well which will make you feel like shit.
 
awm1981 said:
+1 this is why you take your AI from day 1 you dont wait for estrogen side effects as once you feel them its too late and you could end up with gyno which sucks....

10mg-12.5mg EOD is a good dose but as P0N said get bloods done asap as you need to see whats going on. Also if you start taking your dose prior to bloodwork not sure how quickly it will lower your estogen but you should be able to see if you are in the normal range if its in your system for a week.

- - - Updated - - -



Also are you done your cycle? Whats your PCT look like? If your PCT isnt adequate you could have high estrogen and obviously test is going to have dipped due to the fact that you havent dosed in about 10 days so you could also be feeling that as well which will make you feel like shit.
Click to expand...

Yes finished cycle completely long story I feel better finishing off as I was starting to have high amount of sides my guess in hindsite was high estrogen conversion but here's the thread detailing what happened to me

https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...cle-due-anxiety-how-do-do-properly-68674.html

After half life of steroids = 2 - 3 weeks
HCG 18 days after 1000iu hcg per week 500iu twice a week Sunday and Wednesday
Clomid 50mg + 20mg Nolvodex everyday 1st 15 days then 50mg clomid finish off next 15 days

Check where blood work is after this

With this

https://www.medichecks.com/tests/male-hormone-check
 
I would very strongly recommend you do NOT run HCG during PCT. It will make you feel good, but it will in fact delay your recovery. If HCG is something you want in your arsenal, use it in the last weeks of your cycle itself. Also, a 6 week PCT will serve you far better, as it gets you closer to being recovered before jumping off. Check out the PCT sticky.
 
Changes In Estrogen Levels

With the introduction of exogenous testosterone and other AAS, estrogen levels become elevated. Occasionally, with the use of AI, estrogen levels can crash as well. Here are the sides effects that result from both high and low levels of estrogen.

High estrogen sides ones I have experienced i have highlighted

Acne
Loss of libido
Water retention (Bloat)
Moon face
Small testicles
Scrotum hanging too high
Soft testicles
Extreme oiliness all over wouldn't call it extreme but oilier than before
Moodiness (Aggression, depression, increased irritability) << Anxiety is the big one, Depression can follow
Lethargy
Insomnia
Soft erections
Extreme cravings for sugar/chocolate
High BP
BP spikes
Enlarged prostate
Pressure in lower abdomen when urinating
Thin stream when urinating
Constipation (from water retention)
Itchy nipples
Gynecomastia

Low estrogen sides << Will rule out this because i didn't take an AI I tried to make do with his masteron sometimes but this didn't work so much I was on 200mg Cyp Monday and 300mg Enanthate Thursday

Dry skin/lips
Feeling of dehydration
Loss of libido
Erectile Dysfunction
Loss of sensitivity
Dry glans (penis)
White glans
Loss of girth
Irritability/Mood swings
Crying for no reason
DHT rage (aggression you take out on others)
Dull orgasm
Hesitation just before urinating
Night sweats
Loss of appetite
Constant fatigue
Lethargy
Constipation (due to dehydration)
Diuretic effect (pissing more water than you are consuming)
Itchy scalp
Obsessive thoughts
 
dylangemelli said:
masteron is NOT a substitute for an AI in any way, shape or form... it MAY allow you to lower your ai dose but that does not always hold true either...
Click to expand...

Yes it worked for me when my dosing was just 200mg per week after that it seems to have gone haywire
 
msimplay said:
I feel like I'm having symptoms of high estrogen as I didn't have any anti aromatase during cycle. I tried to use masteron to keepn it under control which was fine for testosterone cypionate at 200mg / 400mg per week but I feel they are out of control right now @ Estrogen side effects.

I doubt it would be low estrogen buty question is how much Exemestane before I tank my e2 levels?
The estrogen sides are driving me mad and the last injection 200mg cypionate was on Monday the 8th of July

The tabs come in at 25mg.

I'm waiting for the nurse from medicheck to come on Tuesday 23rd of June.

But wondering if its safe to take a tab of exemestane while I wait as the sides are driving mad?

The anxiety mostly
Click to expand...
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/88/12/5951/2661508
 
we get this question almost daily

you don't wait until shit hits the fan, if you are running anything more than what your body would NATURALLY produce you need an AI PERIOD. there is too much bullshit on social media with guys saying this or that. either do this the right way or don't do it at all
 
msimplay said:
I feel like I'm having symptoms of high estrogen as I didn't have any anti aromatase during cycle. I tried to use masteron to keepn it under control which was fine for testosterone cypionate at 200mg / 400mg per week but I feel they are out of control right now @ Estrogen side effects.

I doubt it would be low estrogen buty question is how much Exemestane before I tank my e2 levels?
The estrogen sides are driving me mad and the last injection 200mg cypionate was on Monday the 8th of July

The tabs come in at 25mg.

I'm waiting for the nurse from medicheck to come on Tuesday 23rd of June.

But wondering if its safe to take a tab of exemestane while I wait as the sides are driving mad?

The anxiety mostly
Click to expand...

For other members reading - this is why you need an AI!!
 
P0N said:
I would very strongly recommend you do NOT run HCG during PCT. It will make you feel good, but it will in fact delay your recovery. If HCG is something you want in your arsenal, use it in the last weeks of your cycle itself. Also, a 6 week PCT will serve you far better, as it gets you closer to being recovered before jumping off. Check out the PCT sticky.
Click to expand...


With Test Cypionate it's half life is 14 days or so. So should be in the system still for a further 14 days.

I have read Testosterone is not fully out of the system until 6 weeks or so.

Would it still not be feasible to use HCG9
 
Test cyp is dissipated enough in 14 days (or a handful more if you feel you must wait as long as possible) that you should be starting PCT not using HCG. You can do whatever you like, of course, but you're harming your recovery and causing an estrogen spike if you use HCG when you should be doing a proper PCT.
 
P0N said:
Test cyp is dissipated enough in 14 days (or a handful more if you feel you must wait as long as possible) that you should be starting PCT not using HCG. You can do whatever you like, of course, but you're harming your recovery and causing an estrogen spike if you use HCG when you should be doing a proper PCT.
Click to expand...


Okay estrogen spike is something I don't want
 
msimplay said:
I feel like I'm having symptoms of high estrogen as I didn't have any anti aromatase during cycle. I tried to use masteron to keepn it under control which was fine for testosterone cypionate at 200mg / 400mg per week but I feel they are out of control right now @ Estrogen side effects.

I doubt it would be low estrogen buty question is how much Exemestane before I tank my e2 levels?
The estrogen sides are driving me mad and the last injection 200mg cypionate was on Monday the 8th of July

The tabs come in at 25mg.

I'm waiting for the nurse from medicheck to come on Tuesday 23rd of June.

But wondering if its safe to take a tab of exemestane while I wait as the sides are driving mad?

The anxiety mostly
Click to expand...

your only really going to know how much to take and for how long from getting bloodwork done. ive been doing alot more reasearch recently and so many many people are in the habit of throwing out doeses and numbers. when really everbody is different. the only way the way you will know your body truly is through bloodwork.
 
Yea as P0N said HCG artificially makes you feel better but its suppressive so if you do use it its in the last 4-6 weeks of your cycle (give or take). I dont use it but it shouldnt be in PCT. Others disagree but if you even just search HCG is suppressive you can see multiple studies suggesting it is.

I usually end my cycle, 2 weeks break so a majority of the test cyp has bled off, and then I start my 6 week PCT with Clomid, Nolva, aromasin (also use it entire cycle), N2Generate, cardarine, and osta.
 
Waiting on medicheck nurse, what she going to Do?
Go get bloods!
Where r U?
U have been a member here since May 2015 how could u not know better?
I am not really trying to b a dick but I just don't understand how u didnt have supps & why u posted this thread when u should have been getting blood drawn.
Language barrier?
 
chadmack282 said:
Waiting on medicheck nurse, what she going to Do?
Go get bloods!
Where r U?
U have been a member here since May 2015 how could u not know better?
I am not really trying to b a dick but I just don't understand how u didnt have supps & why u posted this thread when u should have been getting blood drawn.
Language barrier?
Click to expand...

Hey I'm from the UK and yes a member since 2015 but I didn't always login.
With regards to bloods when you pay for nurse you get venous bloods drawn instead of finger prick posted the thread to get advice
 
Blood results

GP REPORT Monday 22 July

ANDROGENS
DHEAS level = 6.65 nmol/l
Serum Androstenedione 2.07 nmol/L
Se 17a-hydroxyprogresterone lev <0.5 nmol/L

TESTOSTERONE 28.3 nmol/l
OESTRADIOL 242 pmol/l
CORTISOL 365 nmol/l

Medicheck Tuesday 23rd July
Estradiol dropped because of Aromasin 10mg eod since Monday

FSH <0.3 IU/L
LH <0.3 IU/L
OESTRADIOL 194 pmol/L
TESTOSTERONE 25.2 nmol/L
FREE TESTOSTERONE calc 0.628 nmol/L
FREE ANDROGEN INDEX 96.18 ratio
PROLACTIN 180 mU/L
DHEA SULPHATE 7.160 umol/L
 
msimplay said:
Thinking to get an oestradiol test done again to see where my levels are at now after a week of aromasin
Click to expand...

Do you happen to have the range?

I know here its 0 - 39 pg/ml not sure in the UK?
 
msimplay said:
Says 40.00 -161.00pmol/l @ range for estradiol
Click to expand...

Cool I think you could increase to 12.5mg EOD and probably would get you smack in the middle of the range (or close to it) but if you want to run bloods again at the current dose and can do so then do that too and can see then if you need to dial up the dose.
 
The tablets come in at 20mg trying to get 12.5 out of them going to be difficult with my pill cutter lol

- - - Updated - - -

I have been on them Eod since the 18th of July and starting to feel normal again. i wonder if i should stop and get levels checked. I don't want to crash them
 
msimplay said:
The tablets come in at 20mg trying to get 12.5 out of them going to be difficult with my pill cutter lol
Click to expand...

Yea I hear you I usually do half, then half, then half. Its tendious and doesnt have to be perfect but thats what I do. I have seen others do 15mg one day then 10mg the next dosing day too.
 
msimplay said:
The tablets come in at 20mg trying to get 12.5 out of them going to be difficult with my pill cutter lol

- - - Updated - - -

I have been on them Eod since the 18th of July and starting to feel normal again. i wonder if i should stop and get levels checked. I don't want to crash them
Click to expand...

Make sure not to get estro to low. Try to keep it at high normal or just above normal range if u r try to gain muscle mass.
Every1 is different but I personally keep my e2 level where I mentioned with 5mg's of aromasin EOD.
It's a learning process.
 
chadmack282 said:
Make sure not to get estro to low. Try to keep it at high normal or just above normal range if u r try to gain muscle mass.
Every1 is different but I personally keep my e2 level where I mentioned with 5mg's of aromasin EOD.
It's a learning process.
Click to expand...

I just want them back into normal levels which they must be approaching now so I booked another Estradiol test
 
msimplay said:
I just want them back into normal levels which they must be approaching now so I booked another Estradiol test
Click to expand...

Absolutely brother that's why I said it's a process, U have to make subtle changes.
To Me low & high e2 feel the same so small dose changes & BW r the only answer.

- - - Updated - - -

And always have all of your supps & support on hand b4 starting cycle.
Good Luck Bro!
 
Blood results

GP REPORT Monday 22 July

ANDROGENS
DHEAS level = 6.65 nmol/l (range 2.41-11.60 umol/l)
Serum Androstenedione 2.07 nmol/L (range Adult males 1.2-5.0 nmol/L)

Se 17a-hydroxyprogresterone lev <0.5 nmol/L
RANGE Adult Males 1.2 - 5.0nmol/L -
Tanner Stage 1 Males <0.5nmol/L
In premature, sick or stressed neonates serum 17-OHP may be inappropriately raised

TESTOSTERONE 28.3 nmol/l (range 8.30-30.20nmol/L)
OESTRADIOL 242 pmol/l (range 40.00-161.00pmol/l)

CORTISOL 365 nmol/l
9am 102 - 535nmol/L

Medicheck Tuesday 23rd July
Estradiol dropped because of Aromasin 10mg eod since Monday

SHBG 26.2 nmol/L (Range: 18.3 - 54.1)
Albumin 44.5 g/L (Range: 35 - 50)

FSH <0.3 IU/L (Range: 1.5 - 12.4)
LH <0.3 IU/L (Range: 1.7 - 8.6)
OESTRADIOL 194 pmol/L (Range: 41 - 159)
TESTOSTERONE 25.2 nmol/L (Range: 8.64 - 29)
FREE TESTOSTERONE 0.628 nmol/L (Range: 0.2 - 0.62)
FREE ANDROGEN INDEX 96.18 Ratio (Range: 24 - 104)
PROLACTIN 180 mU/L (Range: 86 - 324)

DHEA SULPHATE 7.160 umol/L (Range: 2.41 - 11.6)

Updated the results to include the ranges which I didn't the last time due to typing them up on my phone but I thought it was important to post the figures up at the time
 
chadmack282 said:
Make sure not to get estro to low. Try to keep it at high normal or just above normal range if u r try to gain muscle mass.
Every1 is different but I personally keep my e2 level where I mentioned with 5mg's of aromasin EOD.
It's a learning process.
Click to expand...

I feel like my levels are coming back to normal so I will drop dose to 5mg too, chop the tablet to 4 quarters until I get Blood work for Estrogen levels done next week
 
Ok so Estadiol results have come back they are within normal range after taking Aromasin at 10mg eod for 2 weeks but still on the high end

Oestradiol 143 pmol/L (Range: 41 - 159)

I think maybe get it down to 100 to feel normal a couple more 10mg doses of Aromasin?
 
msimplay said:
Ok so Estadiol results have come back they are within normal range after taking Aromasin at 10mg eod for 2 weeks but still on the high end

Oestradiol 143 pmol/L (Range: 41 - 159)

I think maybe get it down to 100 to feel normal a couple more 10mg doses of Aromasin?
Click to expand...

You are in the healthy range so id stick with that dose but you ened to continue with it through the rest of your cycle.
 
awm1981 said:
You are in the healthy range so id stick with that dose but you ened to continue with it through the rest of your cycle.
Click to expand...

Cycle is finished onto PCT so needed to bring levels to normal range but still feeling a little emotional
.
Also here's a convertor for pmol to pg

As I am guessing people would be more familiar with those values

http://unitslab.com/node/113

- - - Updated - - -

Ps what would be the ideal amount of Estradiol?
 
msimplay said:
Cycle is finished onto PCT so needed to bring levels to normal range but still feeling a little emotional
.
Also here's a convertor for pmol to pg

As I am guessing people would be more familiar with those values

http://unitslab.com/node/113

- - - Updated - - -

Ps what would be the ideal amount of Estradiol?
Click to expand...

Gotcha I forgot you are in PCT I would say your pct should be 6 weeks so where are you PCT wise?

You taper off the aromasin as you get near the end of the cycle so if you are doing 10mg/EOD and you are in say week 4 you can drop it to 7.5mg/EOD or 5mg/EOD for the last 2 weeks.

No ideal value. You need estrogen so anywhere in the healthy range is fine.
 
Yeah 9 days so far into PCT but feels longer because been trying to get away from the High Estrogen sides for the whole of last month
 
msimplay said:
Yeah 9 days so far into PCT but feels longer because been trying to get away from the High Estrogen sides for the whole of last month
Click to expand...

Yea then id run the aromasin at the 10mg EOD for the next 3 weeks then slowly taper off the final 2 weeks.
 
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