I won't use steroids for now, but probably will use clomiphene

[GoldenPlague]

Yes, they def work. But as i have said, drugs are only a small part of the picture. Your diet and training are 95%. Without these being on point all the drugs in the world will not help you.
Osterine will suppress your normal production. You can get away with a mini pct. Read the articles on this site about the various sarms and what they do.
https://www.evolutionary.org/steroids/SARMS
Results are based purely on your training and diet. As far as better, test and DBOL are def stronger but you need to worry about estrogen conversion which is obviously big for you. I think a good SARMS stack would blow away a turnibol only cycle.
Osterine was the first PED i took and def noticed some lean gains and much better endurance.
I think SARMS would be your best option, just make sure you order from sponsored sites. There are tons of fakes out there,

Understood.

Yes. And we've covered that multiple times. Like a 100+ times

ANYTHING which adds a form of test (inc a selective one like sarms) from outside (non natural) will suppress natural production. That's both obviously good logic and actual proven science never mind the experience of 100's of thousands... f**k millions of users. Testosterone from outside gives a signal to the body and the body says... ''well I'll slow down'' (mild suppression) or ''stop production'' (full suppression). If it happens for too long (see those cruising, blasting, on 'TRT' for YEARS) you end up screwed.

And we've covered gyno in far too much detail WITH YOU specifically for me to want to say it again.

Yes, we covered gyno and I understood everything you said. However, I still want to know how to control estrogen levels during a cycle.

Also, I want to know if gyno happens overnight, or there is a long period of time? Do I have a window of time to react or not?

Once gyno symptoms such as nipple itching and inflation appear, how many days/how much time do I have to react and start using estrogen suppressants? And what doses?

I know so many things, but I lack precise knowledge about the small details that can lead to big problems.

 

[s.gentz]

Yes, we covered gyno and I understood everything you said. However, I still want to know how to control estrogen levels during a cycle.

Aromison or arimidex and bloodwork

Also, I want to know if gyno happens overnight, or there is a long period of time? Do I have a window of time to react or not?

Your not just gonna wake up with big tits. You may notice itchy/puffy nipples and maybe a small lump under the nipple. Once you notice these things happening you can react and take care of it. You don't even know if this is an issue for you.

I know so many things, but I lack precise knowledge about the small details that can lead to big problems.

This is why you were asked to create a log detailing your diet, training and pics of your current condition. We are not here to judge you but help you reach your goals. There is nothing to be afraid of here as long as you do things the right way.

 

[stevesmi]

as sgentz said LOG IT
this way if you wake up one day with an issue you can post a picture and we can tell you what to do next.

also very important. keep letro on hand with nolvadex. hopefully you never use either. but you keep them on hand IN CASE. just like keeping a fire extinguiser at home in case

 

[Mobster]

And read our articles on AI's.

 

[Ori]

Understood.

Yes, we covered gyno and I understood everything you said. However, I still want to know how to control estrogen levels during a cycle.

Also, I want to know if gyno happens overnight, or there is a long period of time? Do I have a window of time to react or not?

Once gyno symptoms such as nipple itching and inflation appear, how many days/how much time do I have to react and start using estrogen suppressants? And what doses?

I know so many things, but I lack precise knowledge about the small details that can lead to big problems.

I think if you are just looking for moderate performance enhancement you have better options that may just cost a little more, but will overall be more worth it for you.
For example, why not save more money until you can afford 2-3 months worth of HGH and BPC-157? Are you afraid of sub cutaneous injections? Diabetics do them all the time, the needle is tiny and you basically can’t even feel it. HGH won’t permanently suppress your natural production, bounces back very quick on its own when you stop. You would be more performance enhanced on those, you could even add TB500 and recover even faster again, although BPC and HGH do a fine job of that on their own. Also no need to worry about gyno, getting blood work and so on which all seems to be stressing you out.

 

[GoldenPlague]

Your not just gonna wake up with big tits. You may notice itchy/puffy nipples and maybe a small lump under the nipple. Once you notice these things happening you can react and take care of it. You don't even know if this is an issue for you.

And during the time of just symptoms, I can use additional medications to stop the progress towards gyno, right? I mean, once symptoms are present, it's still not too late to take actions to prevent gyno, right?

as sgentz said LOG IT
this way if you wake up one day with an issue you can post a picture and we can tell you what to do next.

also very important. keep letro on hand with nolvadex. hopefully you never use either. but you keep them on hand IN CASE. just like keeping a fire extinguiser at home in case

I won't use steroids for now.
I will do a blood test to see my testosterone levels and then will use clomiphene to see if the T level will increase.

According to sources, if my T is, for example, 500 or 700ng and my natural limit is 1100ng, then means 500-700ng is an average value. I heard clomiphene can increase the T level to the body's natural limit without exceeding that limit. Additional 300-400ng is significant! I will try this to see if it works. If it doesn't work, I will think of something else...

I think if you are just looking for moderate performance enhancement you have better options that may just cost a little more, but will overall be more worth it for you.
For example, why not save more money until you can afford 2-3 months worth of HGH and BPC-157? Are you afraid of sub cutaneous injections? Diabetics do them all the time, the needle is tiny and you basically can’t even feel it. HGH won’t permanently suppress your natural production, bounces back very quick on its own when you stop. You would be more performance enhanced on those, you could even add TB500 and recover even faster again, although BPC and HGH do a fine job of that on their own. Also no need to worry about gyno, getting blood work and so on which all seems to be stressing you out.

You mean a HGH-only cycle? Isn't using HGH dangerous? I heard it can cause hypertrophy of the thyroid and the prostate, which is a nasty thing. And hyperplasia can lead to organ enlargement, which is something I don't want.

What is the anabolic, not therapeutic, dose of HGH, and what side effects occur at such dose? What additional drugs I need to take during a HGH-only cycle and do I need a PCT?

No, I'm not afraid of needles. I primary concern with injectable steroids is contamination. My logic is that since steroids are bough from the black market where there are no regulations, there is a risk of contamination. If injected, contamination goes directly to the bloodstream, which can cause even death depending on the type of bacteria. If the steroid is in the form of a pill, stomach acids and metabolism will neutralize the contamination.

 

[s.gentz]

And during the time of just symptoms, I can use additional medications to stop the progress towards gyno, right? I mean, once symptoms are present, it's still not too late to take actions to prevent gyno, right?

Yes. Once you feel symptoms you can take action. If you run the cycle right and take an AI to begin with you have no worries.
Aromison will stop the conversion of test to estrogen. Arimidex will lower estrogen if it gets high.

I won't use steroids for now.
I will do a blood test to see my testosterone levels and then will use clomiphene to see if the T level will increase.

According to sources, if my T is, for example, 500 or 700ng and my natural limit is 1100ng, then means 500-700ng is an average value. I heard clomiphene can increase the T level to the body's natural limit without exceeding that limit. Additional 300-400ng is significant! I will try this to see if it works. If it doesn't work, I will think of something else...

I don't think this is gonna work the way you think. Get your bloods done and report back.

You mean a HGH-only cycle? Isn't using HGH dangerous? I heard it can cause hypertrophy of the thyroid and the prostate, which is a nasty thing. And hyperplasia can lead to organ enlargement, which is something I don't want.

What is the anabolic, not therapeutic, dose of HGH, and what side effects occur at such dose? What additional drugs I need to take during a HGH-only cycle and do I need a PCT?

No, I'm not afraid of needles. I primary concern with injectable steroids is contamination. My logic is that since steroids are bough from the black market where there are no regulations, there is a risk of contamination. If injected, contamination goes directly to the bloodstream, which can cause even death depending on the type of bacteria. If the steroid is in the form of a pill, stomach acids and metabolism will neutralize the contamination.

HGH and peptides is not good advice. HGH is not gonna net you much unless you want better better skin. hair and nails. You also need to take it much longer than a couple months to see benefits. The peptides suggested are healing peptides you would take to help speed up injury recovery.

 

[Mobster]

And during the time of just symptoms, I can use additional medications to stop the progress towards gyno, right? I mean, once symptoms are present, it's still not too late to take actions to prevent gyno, right?

I won't use steroids for now.
I will do a blood test to see my testosterone levels and then will use clomiphene to see if the T level will increase.

According to sources, if my T is, for example, 500 or 700ng and my natural limit is 1100ng, then means 500-700ng is an average value. I heard clomiphene can increase the T level to the body's natural limit without exceeding that limit. Additional 300-400ng is significant! I will try this to see if it works. If it doesn't work, I will think of something else...


You mean a HGH-only cycle? Isn't using HGH dangerous? I heard it can cause hypertrophy of the thyroid and the prostate, which is a nasty thing. And hyperplasia can lead to organ enlargement, which is something I don't want.

What is the anabolic, not therapeutic, dose of HGH, and what side effects occur at such dose? What additional drugs I need to take during a HGH-only cycle and do I need a PCT?

No, I'm not afraid of needles. I primary concern with injectable steroids is contamination. My logic is that since steroids are bough from the black market where there are no regulations, there is a risk of contamination. If injected, contamination goes directly to the bloodstream, which can cause even death depending on the type of bacteria. If the steroid is in the form of a pill, stomach acids and metabolism will neutralize the contamination.

Not so as we previously discussed. It's 99% flawed thinking. I even explained how you will not, as you once might have, find examples of it happening

 

[GoldenPlague]

Not so as we previously discussed. It's 99% flawed thinking. I even explained how you will not, as you once might have, find examples of it happening

No, you haven't explained.

If clomiphene blocks estrogen receptors, leading to an increase of gonadotropins, which stimulates the testicles to produce MORE TESTOSTERONE, why do you think clomiphene won't ACTUALLY cause my testosterone levels to increase?

 

[GoldenPlague]

I don't think this is gonna work the way you think.

Why?

 

[s.gentz]

Why?

Clomid is meant to balance test and estrogen. If your test increases so will your estrogen. Just like injecting test. They go hand and hand. It is used to treat secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. At your age unless you have this medical condition it's not going to do much for you.

Enclomiphene is primarily used as a treatment for men with persistent low testosterone as a result of secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. In secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, the resulting low levels of testosterone is attributed to inadequacies in the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis. In contrast, primary hypogonadism is caused by defects in the testes that causes them to be unable to produce the required amount of testosterone.

If it worked as you think there would be many more men using it to boost test. There is virtually 0 discussion of clomid monotherapy on any forums. I have seen a handfull of people that used clomid and ended up switching to test injections because they felt like shit and didn't get the results they wanted. It's toxic and was developed to keep men fertile while helping treat secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism.

Start a log today detailing all of your training and diet. You haven't addressed either of these in detail. Post a pic of your current condition.
Let's see what we can fix there to start.

 

[Mobster]

No, you haven't explained.

If clomiphene blocks estrogen receptors, leading to an increase of gonadotropins, which stimulates the testicles to produce MORE TESTOSTERONE, why do you think clomiphene won't ACTUALLY cause my testosterone levels to increase?

I have. You can literally search my posts. I am, cos that's not quoted, referring to your skewed logic re the chances of contamination.

I'm NOT gonna explain why an idea of yours will work when it's (at this time) only you that wants to go in that direction. Heck even Monstro said 'if it works why don't pros do it?'

 

[Mobster]

Clomid is meant to balance test and estrogen. If your test increases so will your estrogen. Just like injecting test. They go hand and hand. It is used to treat secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. At your age unless you have this medical condition it's not going to do much for you.

Enclomiphene is primarily used as a treatment for men with persistent low testosterone as a result of secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. In secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, the resulting low levels of testosterone is attributed to inadequacies in the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis. In contrast, primary hypogonadism is caused by defects in the testes that causes them to be unable to produce the required amount of testosterone.

If it worked as you think there would be many more men using it to boost test. There is virtually 0 discussion of clomid monotherapy on any forums. I have seen a handfull of people that used clomid and ended up switching to test injections because they felt like shit and didn't get the results they wanted. It's toxic and was developed to keep men fertile while helping treat secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism.

Start a log today detailing all of your training and diet. You haven't addressed either of these in detail. Post a pic of your current condition.
Let's see what we can fix there to start.

$5 says he wont. Happy to be proved wrong

 

[s.gentz]

$5 says he wont. Happy to be proved wrong

Agree. We will just continue down this path. What happens when he stops taking the clomid and his balls get fucked from turning off the extra "stimulation"? Even if it bumps his testosterone his estrogen will follow. Would be so much easier to take sarms to get his feet wet or just take the test the right way with guidance.
Something tells me he either has pubescent gyno or fat around his nips he perceives will turn into gyno because it's already puffy.
I also highly doubt he knows how to train and diet. I've asked numerous times and just keep getting a generic answer or no answer.

 

[GoldenPlague]

Clomid is meant to balance test and estrogen. If your test increases so will your estrogen. Just like injecting test. They go hand and hand. It is used to treat secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. At your age unless you have this medical condition it's not going to do much for you.

Enclomiphene is primarily used as a treatment for men with persistent low testosterone as a result of secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. In secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, the resulting low levels of testosterone is attributed to inadequacies in the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis. In contrast, primary hypogonadism is caused by defects in the testes that causes them to be unable to produce the required amount of testosterone.

If it worked as you think there would be many more men using it to boost test. There is virtually 0 discussion of clomid monotherapy on any forums. I have seen a handfull of people that used clomid and ended up switching to test injections because they felt like shit and didn't get the results they wanted. It's toxic and was developed to keep men fertile while helping treat secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism.

Yes, I know my estrogen will increase due to more aromatization. But, since clomiphene can't boost natural T production beyond the natural limit, wouldn't that mean side effects associated with high estrogen won't occur? For example, for gynecomastia to happen, won't this require the level of testosterone to be beyond the natural limit so there can be a large quantity of it to be aromatized?

As far as I know, aromatization becomes a problem only when the amount of aromatized testosterone is too high, and it can be too high only if it's beyond the natural limit?

And yes, there are many retards who use clomiphene for testosterone boosting. Greg Doucete published a video called "Exposing fake natty secrets" where he shows retards talking about clomiphene and how it increases testosterone.

He also explained that clomiphene actually works and if you use it, you should not call yourself natural.

So, if it works on the TikTok retards, why wouldn't it work on me, too?

Agree. We will just continue down this path. What happens when he stops taking the clomid and his balls get fucked from turning off the extra "stimulation"? Even if it bumps his testosterone his estrogen will follow. Would be so much easier to take sarms to get his feet wet or just take the test the right way with guidance.
Something tells me he either has pubescent gyno or fat around his nips he perceives will turn into gyno because it's already puffy.
I also highly doubt he knows how to train and diet. I've asked numerous times and just keep getting a generic answer or no answer.

Once the extra stimulation is turned off, wouldn't the testicles go back to the average production they produced before I start using clomiphene? Or they will "forget" how to produce testosterone and will always need clomiphene meaning clomiphene is for life?

I'm not 100% sure if I have gynecomastia. Currently, it seems the fatty tissue around my nipples is not gynecomastia, because it becomes smaller and smaller, as my body fat percentage drops. I will continue dropping the body fat level percentage until I reach a single-digit number and then will see if there is still fat tissue. If it turns out it's gyno, I will remove it.

 

[stevesmi]

I already explain earlier in the thread, or it may have been in a different thread you were involved in that clomid is not anabolic or androgenic

If you have low testosterone, and you take Clomid, then yes, it will raise your testosterone. Hence why we use it during pct and it works great along with Nolvadex. it will also block estrogen from Feedback in as I have explain to you already.

My suggestion instead of arguing back-and-forth and trolling us to death how about you get a log going and you detail your diet and training and you also run 25 mg of Clomid every day and also document your before and during blood work and then we can see what happens. My guess is you get a little bit of a boost mostly placebo effect and motivation. but in no way, shape or form is it gonna be anything close to using anabolic steroids

 

[RoySimpson]

Napsgear is the real deal!!

 

[s.gentz]

As far as I know, aromatization becomes a problem only when the amount of aromatized testosterone is too high, and it can be too high only if it's beyond the natural limit?

Nope. It becomes a problem when total estrogen is too high. Some guys on very low HRT have estrogen issues and they could be sitting well under 900ng/dl

Once the extra stimulation is turned off, wouldn't the testicles go back to the average production they produced before I start using clomiphene? Or they will "forget" how to produce testosterone and will always need clomiphene meaning clomiphene is for life?

You would hope. You don't know until you try. Nothing is 100% safe to use.

Start a log. You ignore this every time it's mentioned. This clomid discussion has run it's course. Either do it or don't.

 

[Ori]

And during the time of just symptoms, I can use additional medications to stop the progress towards gyno, right? I mean, once symptoms are present, it's still not too late to take actions to prevent gyno, right?

I won't use steroids for now.
I will do a blood test to see my testosterone levels and then will use clomiphene to see if the T level will increase.

According to sources, if my T is, for example, 500 or 700ng and my natural limit is 1100ng, then means 500-700ng is an average value. I heard clomiphene can increase the T level to the body's natural limit without exceeding that limit. Additional 300-400ng is significant! I will try this to see if it works. If it doesn't work, I will think of something else...


You mean a HGH-only cycle? Isn't using HGH dangerous? I heard it can cause hypertrophy of the thyroid and the prostate, which is a nasty thing. And hyperplasia can lead to organ enlargement, which is something I don't want.

What is the anabolic, not therapeutic, dose of HGH, and what side effects occur at such dose? What additional drugs I need to take during a HGH-only cycle and do I need a PCT?

No, I'm not afraid of needles. I primary concern with injectable steroids is contamination. My logic is that since steroids are bough from the black market where there are no regulations, there is a risk of contamination. If injected, contamination goes directly to the bloodstream, which can cause even death depending on the type of bacteria. If the steroid is in the form of a pill, stomach acids and metabolism will neutralize the contamination.

This link has a good run down of HGH, doses etc.

The reason people here think it is a bad choice is that it isn’t comparable to steroids. But that shouldn’t matter as you claim not to be looking for that level of effect yet. HGH won’t only make you sleep better have better hair etc it is indeed performance enhancing, so are growth hormone secreting peptides. Hypertrophy is NOT the only measurement of how good a PED is but that does indeed seem to unfortunately be the vibe here despite that not being reality at all.

HGH or a growth hormone secreting peptide combo will give you very noticeable performance enhancement. It won’t alter your physique like steroids but it will do it to a degree you absolutely will notice if diet and training are dialled in, you will lose fat from your mid section in particular and get leaner without losing muscle, and that part is easy even on this sort of cycle.

You can add other things too, to recover even faster, which by the way is a significant performance enhancing effect. You could add BPC-157 and if you could afford it TB500. The BPC + HGH will make you recover A LOT faster, so you can train more and get more gains in the same window of time compared to natty. If you can do all three, BPC + TB500 + HGH, you will also notice more endurance etc, TB500 does that too.

For cardio you could try Stenabolic and see what it’s like to have that boosted a bit.

None of this requires a PCT or blood work monitoring. You’d have to inject sub cutaneously with insulin syringes so maybe this will be too “risky” for you. You can’t just suddenly die from an infection either, takes time, that is a slow grizzly death in most cases, so you have plenty of time to just go to a hospital and get nuked with antibiotics. I’ve nearly died of a bowel infection I know what a serious one is like I’m still disabled from what it did to me, you have basically no chance of something like that happening from injecting gear, I hadn’t even thought of trying PEDs back when I got it, there was just an outbreak of it in the city I lived in and I got unlucky.

I’ve used this same approach but with growth hormone secreting peptides instead of straight HGH, only because I didn’t know how to source HGH when I started. Am using it to get myself through a rehab plan, I have injuries etc that held me back too much. You 100% do get stronger, recover faster etc, become noticeably performance enhanced, but not to the degree a full on steroid cycle would do, however in terms of healing etc it outperforms just blasting steroids.

You don’t have to worry about organ enlargement etc at a “sports TRT” level dose of HGH either.

 

[GoldenPlague]

You would hope. You don't know until you try. Nothing is 100% safe to use.

Clomiphene is not suppressive and doesn't add any additional hormones, causing natural hormone production to stop. Given that, why wouldn't my natural testosterone production, when the clomid boost is gone, return to the average or normal levels it had before clomid use?