If it's under the skin injected, how often should testosterone enanthate be injected?

[stevesmi]

^^^ there are mentions of 4.5 days, 7 days. 8 days 8.5 days. 10 days even.. depends on what can be pulled up.

for me i trust the bloodwork man. and i assure you that if you take 500mgs of test E for let's say 10 weeks.. then come off. that stuff won't be out of your system for 4-5 weeks.. meaning the bloods will show excess test in your system. so I would def go with closer to 10 day half life with E then 4.5 days. i've never seen anyone in my life take test E and 2 weeks later it be all out of their system. with prop yes, but not E.

 

[stevesmi]

I find no difference in anything going subq vs im. Bloods, pain, feels. It’s all the same.

there is no difference

BUT over time when you inject high amounts of gear and having to constantly rotate it makes no sense.

just on trt and pinning once a week and rotating with subQ is fine. but for a normal cycle not gonna fly. you will also increase the chances of developing abscesses and having a lot of clumping oil under the skin and a much higher chance of scar tissue. again its not a big deal but it will prevent you from pinning that spot

 

[LittleTimeTrouble]

there is no difference

BUT over time when you inject high amounts of gear and having to constantly rotate it makes no sense.

just on trt and pinning once a week and rotating with subQ is fine. but for a normal cycle not gonna fly. you will also increase the chances of developing abscesses and having a lot of clumping oil under the skin and a much higher chance of scar tissue. again its not a big deal but it will prevent you from pinning that spot

I disagree. I pin every day, whether on trt or cycle, and while you can feel the oil depots subq more than im, there is more than enough real estate in which to pin subq. I don’t pin huge volumes, so that may be a difference, but it really shouldn’t.

 

[co8ba]

^^^ there are mentions of 4.5 days, 7 days. 8 days 8.5 days. 10 days even.. depends on what can be pulled up.

for me i trust the bloodwork man. and i assure you that if you take 500mgs of test E for let's say 10 weeks.. then come off. that stuff won't be out of your system for 4-5 weeks.. meaning the bloods will show excess test in your system. so I would def go with closer to 10 day half life with E then 4.5 days. i've never seen anyone in my life take test E and 2 weeks later it be all out of their system. with prop yes, but not E.

There is something called "Delayed clearance" When your body cannot quickly recover its natural testosterone production levels, to avoid hormonal imbalance, the body deliberately slows down the metabolism of exogenous testosterone. This means that even after discontinuation, it can remain in the body for several weeks as it gradually clears. During this time, it can still contribute to elevated testosterone levels in the bloodstream.

But this doesn't imply that the metabolism cycle of testosterone enanthate is of the same duration. During the continuous injection of exogenous testosterone, the metabolism time of Test E is 4.5 days, which is the actual metabolism time of this compound, rather than being regulated by your body's metabolism.

 

[LittleTimeTrouble]

There is something called "Delayed clearance" When your body cannot quickly recover its natural testosterone production levels, to avoid hormonal imbalance, the body deliberately slows down the metabolism of exogenous testosterone. This means that even after discontinuation, it can remain in the body for several weeks as it gradually clears. During this time, it can still contribute to elevated testosterone levels in the bloodstream.

But this doesn't imply that the metabolism cycle of testosterone enanthate is of the same duration. During the continuous injection of exogenous testosterone, the metabolism time of Test E is 4.5 days, which is the actual metabolism time of this compound, rather than being regulated by your body's metabolism.

People forget that bodies aren’t perfect processing machines, which is why you can’t use your blood tests to check gear concentration and a great number of things. Various molecules have definitive properties, which is what I think you are talking about here.

 

[co8ba]

you can’t use your blood tests to check gear concentration and a great number of things

True

 

[GoldenPlague]

Nope. Never said that.

And I think your plan is, as before, something of a logic fail. Strange (again as before) considering how highly you regard yourself (based off of your own comments and I say that as a somewhat immodest person myself). Here's why:

1) Test prop - is well known to sting. Indeed any prop. The shorter the ester the great chance of it being painful.
2) I'd hazard a well educated guess that it has a greater chance of stinging more sub-q than IM.

I 'kinda' get your skewed logic of as to why you wanna daily sub-q a shorter ester... the idea of having perfectly level test levels. But I previously explained why that's pretty much pointless. I'll address those for the benefit of others reading:

1) Normally day to day, even hour to hour variation of testosterone. Like how it and other hormones are part of what wakes you. How being out on a warm day vs a cold day will affect it and so on. All that vs trying to have constant and steady levels. Impossible. See 2)
2) Even with an approximate half life of 19 hours (see below) you'll slowly add to what's left in the system with daily pinning - The terminal half-life of testosterone propionate is approximately 19 hours, and thus suggested injection intervals are every 2–3 days to achieve maintained therapeutic response (7).14 Apr 2020 (from NIH). To muddy the water we see too many variations in half lives to make that 100% accurate.
3) And, finally, as I've pointed out before you're trying to out think 60+ years of use and roughly 30+ years of TRT. There are good practical reasons as to why choices have been made. I'll ignore the fiscal ones some poor clinics make.
4) Precisely what do you think to achieve with what amounts to a flat line test level? Beyond what you said (manly jaw etc) before.

Would you explain how exactly to do it? For a start, I want a steady state level of 100 mg a week. So, if I want to have a stable testosterone level, how often should I inject and at what doses?

 

[Mobster]

Would you explain how exactly to do it? For a start, I want a steady state level of 100 mg a week. So, if I want to have a stable testosterone level, how often should I inject and at what doses?

I explained too many times that you will NOT get a steady state. And why. So don't ask me again

 

[Mobster]

There is something called "Delayed clearance" When your body cannot quickly recover its natural testosterone production levels, to avoid hormonal imbalance, the body deliberately slows down the metabolism of exogenous testosterone. This means that even after discontinuation, it can remain in the body for several weeks as it gradually clears. During this time, it can still contribute to elevated testosterone levels in the bloodstream.

But this doesn't imply that the metabolism cycle of testosterone enanthate is of the same duration. During the continuous injection of exogenous testosterone, the metabolism time of Test E is 4.5 days, which is the actual metabolism time of this compound, rather than being regulated by your body's metabolism.

One issue, which I have addressed on podcasts, is the simple fact that each and every one of us does NOT do the same thing nor are in the same condition. Ergo will NOT have the same clearance times.

Simply put someone lean, fit and healthy will have quicker/shorter times vs someone fat.

 

[GoldenPlague]

I explained too many times that you will NOT get a steady state. And why. So don't ask me again

Are you saying it's impossible to get steady state level on testosterone propionate?

 

[s.gentz]

Are you saying it's impossible to get steady state level on testosterone propionate?

Pinning prop once per day isn't even gonna be perfect steady state. You will have a 30-40mg drop between injections.
You would have less drop pinning enanthate every day in small doses.
At the end of the day you do not need a perfect steady state. Your body naturally fluctuates. You are over complicating this once again,

https://www.steroidplotter.com/

 

[stevesmi]

There is something called "Delayed clearance" When your body cannot quickly recover its natural testosterone production levels, to avoid hormonal imbalance, the body deliberately slows down the metabolism of exogenous testosterone. This means that even after discontinuation, it can remain in the body for several weeks as it gradually clears. During this time, it can still contribute to elevated testosterone levels in the bloodstream.

But this doesn't imply that the metabolism cycle of testosterone enanthate is of the same duration. During the continuous injection of exogenous testosterone, the metabolism time of Test E is 4.5 days, which is the actual metabolism time of this compound, rather than being regulated by your body's metabolism.

like i said above. i have seen 4.5 days and i have seen 10 days. and in the middle.

the point is these compounds take much longer then peak in your body and leave your body then 4.5 days, or 20 days, etc. it will take 40-50 days. whether you want to call it half life, ester clearance, delayed clearance. now here is the problem i see all the time. it still needs to be understood to prevent problems
guys run their pct too shallow and by the time they actually need pct they are off of it and its not there.. so they crash hard. thats not good. and it happens all the time to people who quit on pct's.. all beacuse they don't understand how steroid esters work and clear.

with bloodwork i'm not referring to recovery times, which is not gonna be an accurate indicator since some people won't even recovery post cycle at all. i'm referring to actual lab testing on total test levels. example if you use 500mgs of test E per week for 10 weeks. when you get bloods done 2 weeks after your last injection you will notice your total test levels is still elevated by a lot.. well into the 2000's. assuming your gear was legit.

of course those on trt or those that stay on don't have to worry about that. but if you plan on cycling for years and recovering your hpta you better know

 

[stevesmi]

I disagree. I pin every day, whether on trt or cycle, and while you can feel the oil depots subq more than im, there is more than enough real estate in which to pin subq. I don’t pin huge volumes, so that may be a difference, but it really shouldn’t.

you haven't been using steroids for a long time and you dont run huge cycles

a pro bodybuilder pinning 2 or 3g a week like Monstro or bodymonster on here... or guys like pigsy etc. they aren't gonna be able to get away with subQ

guys like you or me, or others who are older and just do tiny cycles, or guys who pin trt once a week its perfectly fine.

oddly enough 5 or 10 years ago if you said subq on a forum (some are still like this) they would flame you and call you a pussy etc. i was actually one of the few who said it was fine in certain situations.

 

[Mobster]

Are you saying it's impossible to get steady state level on testosterone propionate?

Isn't that you asking again? When I've explained that a steady state is both impossible and pointless previously.

 

[LittleTimeTrouble]

you haven't been using steroids for a long time and you dont run huge cycles

a pro bodybuilder pinning 2 or 3g a week like Monstro or bodymonster on here... or guys like pigsy etc. they aren't gonna be able to get away with subQ

guys like you or me, or others who are older and just do tiny cycles, or guys who pin trt once a week its perfectly fine.

oddly enough 5 or 10 years ago if you said subq on a forum (some are still like this) they would flame you and call you a pussy etc. i was actually one of the few who said it was fine in certain situations.

All true. Hell, six months ago on here people were saying you can’t inject subq.

 

[Mobster]

All true. Hell, six months ago on here people were saying you can’t inject subq.

A few for sure. Even now I'd say why bother? I'll cite what I've previously mentioned:

The various historical identification and isolation of Testosterone is in excess of 100 years old (late 1800's onwards). Heck the 'essence' concept (viz eating meat and bulls testicles etc) is ancient history. Fast forward to the (I've covered this properly) 1940's and forms of test were available then. Go forward another 10-20 years and you have what we recognize as AAS.

The mixed batch of big pharma companies who produced differing forms of AAS is extensive. In modern terms they spent 10's of millions if not 100's of millions of dollars between them creating and testing those products. This includes, as covered before, the doses per ml. Hence why I am no fan of 350-500mg per ml products. In almost, if not every, case said products will sting more and crash more. Labs produce them cos some use want them. Not because they are more effective. If they was a pharma producer would have done this (and just upped their prices). But when used medically patients had issues.

The same applies to sub-q application vs IM. The side issue is, of course, PED use vs medical. But I take it as a given that various models of application were trialed and tested. By way of example some years ago some drugs were, in effect, blown under air pressure through the skin. Equally we've seen birth control and HRT done with (much like cattle) done via pellets inserted under the skin.

Now I'll admit a bias - I don't like pinning as such. Ergo the idea of needing to pin more frequently and, worse, at PED doses sub-q... fuck that. It'd mean (for me when on cycle) approx 4 pins per day I'd inject (sus/deca c2ml x 2 days a week). Way more for those that do over a gram a week, use shorter esters and so on.

It's kinda ok for low to medium dose TRT. I'd still go with 1 jab a fortnight vs 1-2 per day x 1-2 days per week.

Now GP's grand idea is just that - a shorter ester. So more pinning.

Then we get into the whole idea for many of Sub-q - the 'theory' of a level testosterone level. Ask them why? If they 'feel' the actual high and low test levels I'd look at the ester of choice. Most people (I'd argue the majority hence the advice) do not really have highs and lows kinda days on test. I certainly don't. It MIGHT be an issue of body condition, them being 'low t' kind of fellas normally (off cycle), outside stress and life issues or simply as need for TRT vs PED (key part being performance).

I've explained in detail why a perfectly flat line level isn't really beneficial. And almost impossible to make happen.

Almost none of this applies to GP (proven to him in his own words following the tests he tried to cheat). It's, to date, ALL purely theory. He's not even using estrogen controllers and or test boosters - yet

 

[GoldenPlague]

Pinning prop once per day isn't even gonna be perfect steady state. You will have a 30-40mg drop between injections.
You would have less drop pinning enanthate every day in small doses.
At the end of the day you do not need a perfect steady state. Your body naturally fluctuates. You are over complicating this once again,

https://www.steroidplotter.com/

I reconsidered using T enanthate. I don't want to use it, because it causes more water retention than propionate. I prefer propionate for its short half-life as well, since it will be easier to manage if something go wrong.

I think propionate is the best choice for a first cycle that will be just a test cycle to see how the body reacts.

Okay. So, in this case, if I want 100 mg a week, how often and at what doses should I inject?

 

[GoldenPlague]

Isn't that you asking again? When I've explained that a steady state is both impossible and pointless previously.

Then how can I have stable levels and prevent fluctuation that can cause bad side effects?

 

[Mobster]

I reconsidered using T enanthate. I don't want to use it, because it causes more water retention than propionate. I prefer propionate for its short half-life as well, since it will be easier to manage if something go wrong.

I think propionate is the best choice for a first cycle that will be just a test cycle to see how the body reacts.

Okay. So, in this case, if I want 100 mg a week, how often and at what doses should I inject?

Same answer as before - half life.

 

[LittleTimeTrouble]

There is probably some very marginal benefit to more frequent injections no matter the ester half life. Side effects do tend to correspond to highest blood levels rather than average, and half lives only do so much to produce smoothing. Is it worth it? Personal decision.