Insomnia destroying my life and limiting my gains!

thefire49 · May 9, 2024

Hi, I'm a mid-40's female, who has suffered with insomnia for my entire life. My brain is always running overtime, i am aways hypervigilant, and I notice absolutely everything. I often get sensory overload because there is so much information coming in all the time, and my brain doesn't know which information to attend to and which to just ignore. I am certain I am Autistic and I have always had hearing problems which I now realise is actually Auditory Processing Disorder (which is common amongst autistic folks). I am wondering now also if I meet the criteria for an ADHD diagnosis also. I cannot afford to persue an assessment for this at the moment and that's beside the point anyway...

I've been weight training for 18mths and meeting my macro goals for the past 12 months. I've seen some great results! Lost 20% of my body weight in the first 10mths and now I am focusing on building muscle. I have 3mth body composition scans and am consistantly seeing great results.
I decided to take things to the next level and now I am
currently 2 weeks into (of 4) of my first 5mg daily Anavar cycle. This hasn't seemed to have had any effect on my insomnia problems. Good or bad.

The reason for this post is that because my brain just never switches off, I spend many hours laying awake In bed every night. I average 2-4hrs of sleep a night. Many nights I actually don't sleep at all. I weight train at the gym 4 days per week and I am finding that I am just not getting enough hours of sleep to rest/recover from my training sessions. My joints ache all the time and my muscles cramp randomly. I am aware I am leaving all these gains on the floor!

I'm looking for new ideas to improve my insomnia?

My sleep hygiene is very good. I go to bed and get up at the same time every day, I get 30min of sunlight directly into my eyes within an hour of waking up every morning, i eat a high carb/low protein meal for dinner, I don't exercise or eat within 3 hrs of bed time. Don't consume any stimulants (coffee, nicotine, preworkout, etc), I exercise and eat fairly clean every day, and I challenge myself mentally & physically every day. And I have a fairly stress free life. I also practice N.S.D.R (yoga nidra) every day.

I don't lie awake worrying or ruminating about anything each night. I just practice slow-deep breathing and progressive muscle relaxation. And my mind just wonders, thinking about anything and everything - it just won't switch off. I've tried listening to boring podcasts or relaxing music, reading books, but nothing works.

I've had lots of talking therapy witj psychologists to discuss the possible causes of my insomnia but I really think it is a biological issue in my brain, not trauma based mental one.

Natural therapies such as melatonin, magnesium, kava, herbal teas, etc have not been at all useful. Not even after trying for several months at a time.

I have been on antipsychotics (serequel & zeldox) and antidepressants (such as amitrypiline) in the past, They left me feeling sedated during the day, they didn't actually help me sleep at night.
I've tried many benzos (temazepam, nitrazepam, triazolam, alprazolam etc), and hypnotics (z-drugs like zolpidem & zopiclone) which help for few days but tolerance builds quickly and then I'm back to stage 1 again. They are certainly not a long term solution.

There are no antihistamines (phenergan, doxylamine etc) that make me drowsy. Very strong opiates give me 'the nod' at strong doses, but they will not prescribe those for insomnia. Even IV sedatives such as midazolam, valium etc do not sedate me.

I'm not a fan of depressants, but
smoking cannabis does make me quite tired. But I don't want to do this every night of the week and it is not legal here in Australia. I don't drink alcohol. I don't like the taste of it and there is a very fine line for me between feeling 'a little tipsy' and 'vomiting my guts up'.

I am considering trying GHB (yes, the date rape drug), because I know it showed great promise as a treatment for people with insomnia and narcolepsy years go. Again not ideal either for nightly use or because of legal status and cost.

I've just stated looking into DSIP (deep sleep inducing peptide).. does it actually work? Can any of you vouch for it? Does it need to be used in conjunction with other peptides? In some kind of peptide cocktail?

Are there any other peptides/anabolics/sarms/ PCTs, nootropics, or BB suppliments that anyone could reccommend for me to try to resolve my imsomnia problem?

Sorry for the long post but I am desperate at the moment and on the verge of a break down. I am open to trying absolutely anything. Thanjs for reDting all this.
I would really appreciate any advice! I am on the verge of burnout at the moment and I need to find a long term solution to this problem.
Regards, desperately in need to sleep.

Mobster · May 9, 2024

I'll make a couple of suggestions

You mention losing a LOT of weight. Not discussed enough is just how common sleep apnea is in the obese, the over weight and even just the very big, muscular and strong. A great many strength athletes use cpap masks.

Equally training HARD can cause the same issues as does over training in and of itself

Because of the other issues I would reduce stimulation to a MINIMUM. No light, not too hot, NO FKIN CELLPHONE. Stop watching TV about an hour or so before bed. No food close to sleep time and so on. No coffee etc after 2pm at the latest.

To a lesser degree while sleep IS important don't get too hung up on a specific number. More important is being rested. In the middle ages we often went to bed as the sun went down and then woke around midnight for an hour or so. As I get older I can wake a bunch of times and still feel ok in the am

On supps - look at N2Sleep. It includes a small dose of GABA which might help. Ditto tryptophan (present in milk).

donkey_therapist · May 9, 2024

Sorry you're dealing with this...and have been for quite a while. I'm a psych provider in the states and your sleep hygiene practices are certainly on point, as well as the lifestyle modifications to assist with getting better sleep...but for some reason you're still really struggling. If you are autistic, regardless of the degree, there can certainly be some neurological differences that could impact sleep, but the first thing I would look at is a full panel of labs, including female hormone panel and sensitive thyroid markers. Have you had full panels ran since you lost the weight?

The possibility of ADHD would contribute to the hypervigilance but wouldn't explain the extreme insomnia. Hypothyroidism contributes to very poor sleep from induction of sleep, staying asleep/reaching deep REM, and allowing restorative mechanisms to take place in the body. Fluctuations in DHEA, progesterone, estradiol, and test along with other possible imbalances could all contribute to the extreme insomnia...especially if there is a thyroid or other underlying issue. I agree with everything Mobster said above, and all of the practices you're using. Haven't seen a lot of evidence on DISP yet beyond possible placebo effect, so hard to vouch for. I am a big advocate for reading before bed "actual black and white paper, no kindle or electronics of any type". It's not only relaxing but a lot of studies are showing that the body is allowed to go into a restorative state while reading that helps with lack of sleep to a degree while also helping induce sleep for many. Regardless, labs would be the first place I'd look for sure. Hoping you get to the bottom of this! You're tough and have accomplished so much, you'll figure it out!

LevButlerov · May 9, 2024

thefire49 said:
Hi, I'm a mid-40's female, who has suffered with insomnia for my entire life. My brain is always running overtime, i am aways hypervigilant, and I notice absolutely everything. I often get sensory overload because there is so much information coming in all the time, and my brain doesn't know which information to attend to and which to just ignore. I am certain I am Autistic and I have always had hearing problems which I now realise is actually Auditory Processing Disorder (which is common amongst autistic folks). I am wondering now also if I meet the criteria for an ADHD diagnosis also. I cannot afford to persue an assessment for this at the moment and that's beside the point anyway...

I've been weight training for 18mths and meeting my macro goals for the past 12 months. I've seen some great results! Lost 20% of my body weight in the first 10mths and now I am focusing on building muscle. I have 3mth body composition scans and am consistantly seeing great results.
I decided to take things to the next level and now I am
currently 2 weeks into (of 4) of my first 5mg daily Anavar cycle. This hasn't seemed to have had any effect on my insomnia problems. Good or bad.

The reason for this post is that because my brain just never switches off, I spend many hours laying awake In bed every night. I average 2-4hrs of sleep a night. Many nights I actually don't sleep at all. I weight train at the gym 4 days per week and I am finding that I am just not getting enough hours of sleep to rest/recover from my training sessions. My joints ache all the time and my muscles cramp randomly. I am aware I am leaving all these gains on the floor!

I'm looking for new ideas to improve my insomnia?

My sleep hygiene is very good. I go to bed and get up at the same time every day, I get 30min of sunlight directly into my eyes within an hour of waking up every morning, i eat a high carb/low protein meal for dinner, I don't exercise or eat within 3 hrs of bed time. Don't consume any stimulants (coffee, nicotine, preworkout, etc), I exercise and eat fairly clean every day, and I challenge myself mentally & physically every day. And I have a fairly stress free life. I also practice N.S.D.R (yoga nidra) every day.

I don't lie awake worrying or ruminating about anything each night. I just practice slow-deep breathing and progressive muscle relaxation. And my mind just wonders, thinking about anything and everything - it just won't switch off. I've tried listening to boring podcasts or relaxing music, reading books, but nothing works.

I've had lots of talking therapy witj psychologists to discuss the possible causes of my insomnia but I really think it is a biological issue in my brain, not trauma based mental one.

Natural therapies such as melatonin, magnesium, kava, herbal teas, etc have not been at all useful. Not even after trying for several months at a time.

I have been on antipsychotics (serequel & zeldox) and antidepressants (such as amitrypiline) in the past, They left me feeling sedated during the day, they didn't actually help me sleep at night.
I've tried many benzos (temazepam, nitrazepam, triazolam, alprazolam etc), and hypnotics (z-drugs like zolpidem & zopiclone) which help for few days but tolerance builds quickly and then I'm back to stage 1 again. They are certainly not a long term solution.

There are no antihistamines (phenergan, doxylamine etc) that make me drowsy. Very strong opiates give me 'the nod' at strong doses, but they will not prescribe those for insomnia. Even IV sedatives such as midazolam, valium etc do not sedate me.

I'm not a fan of depressants, but
smoking cannabis does make me quite tired. But I don't want to do this every night of the week and it is not legal here in Australia. I don't drink alcohol. I don't like the taste of it and there is a very fine line for me between feeling 'a little tipsy' and 'vomiting my guts up'.

I am considering trying GHB (yes, the date rape drug), because I know it showed great promise as a treatment for people with insomnia and narcolepsy years go. Again not ideal either for nightly use or because of legal status and cost.

I've just stated looking into DSIP (deep sleep inducing peptide).. does it actually work? Can any of you vouch for it? Does it need to be used in conjunction with other peptides? In some kind of peptide cocktail?

Are there any other peptides/anabolics/sarms/ PCTs, nootropics, or BB suppliments that anyone could reccommend for me to try to resolve my imsomnia problem?

Sorry for the long post but I am desperate at the moment and on the verge of a break down. I am open to trying absolutely anything. Thanjs for reDting all this.
I would really appreciate any advice! I am on the verge of burnout at the moment and I need to find a long term solution to this problem.
Regards, desperately in need to sleep.

stevesmi · May 9, 2024

I've been studying sleep since I was eight years old
yes I said eight years old

I've written some articles on sleep and we've done podcasts on sleep I strongly suggest you check those out
https://www.evolutionary.org/sleeping-problems-and-insomnia/

sleep is extremely crucial and if you're not getting enough of it then it's extremely harmful

e2 · May 10, 2024

Very sorry you're going through this
not getting good sleep has a lot of downsides

2Thick · May 10, 2024

maybe try cpap machine
that seems to be a no-brainer

Vadim Fedorov · May 10, 2024

there are some good suggestions above
one of the things you can try is getting rid of electronics in your room

Wootoom · May 10, 2024

definitely put up a log Journal
you can log your sleep and maybe we can find something that works

JasonPriest · May 10, 2024

certain foods can help you sleep and hurt your sleep
if you log the amount of sleep you're getting and quality maybe you can connect it to some foods

BodyMonster34 · May 10, 2024

sister maybe you lonely at night
maybe try sleeping with cats or dogs

Quadsweep · May 10, 2024

it's good that you're trying to tackle this
there are many different things that you can try I would get on a log immediately and get that going

ceo · May 10, 2024

so sorry for your issues
lots of people suffer from this

ROIDDERS · May 10, 2024

best thing you can do is join our community
we can definitely help you put up a log

chesty · May 10, 2024

glad to have you on here
lots of people are in your shoes

Ulter · May 10, 2024

definitely put up a log Journal
this will help get you on the right path

10millagorilla · May 10, 2024

Cannabis is very much so legal in Australia under the correct conditions! I just just prescribed rather easily I may add both cbd and thc in what ever form works for you oil, flower what ever

25homes · May 11, 2024

Melatonin

thefire49 · May 11, 2024

Mobster said:
I'll make a couple of suggestions

You mention losing a LOT of weight. Not discussed enough is just how common sleep apnea is in the obese, the over weight and even just the very big, muscular and strong. A great many strength athletes use cpap masks.

Equally training HARD can cause the same issues as does over training in and of itself

Because of the other issues I would reduce stimulation to a MINIMUM. No light, not too hot, NO FKIN CELLPHONE. Stop watching TV about an hour or so before bed. No food close to sleep time and so on. No coffee etc after 2pm at the latest.

To a lesser degree while sleep IS important don't get too hung up on a specific number. More important is being rested. In the middle ages we often went to bed as the sun went down and then woke around midnight for an hour or so. As I get older I can wake a bunch of times and still feel ok in the am

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
I did lose 20% of my body weight but i was only 75kgs to begin with though, so i've never been huge or obese. I got down to 58kgs by eating in a deficit and weight training 4 days a week. I've never had sleep apnea. I know this because i did an overnight sleep study (for a different reason) and I'm sure they would have picked it up if i had it and wpuld have said so.
As for no stims etc: i already do all this. I don't exercise or eat anything after about 8:30pm. Very rarely drink coffee. Maybe one cup a week when I visit my nanna for lunch on Wednesdays. No other stimulants.
Stims don't seem to effect me much anyway. I've had things like speed, coke, Ritalin, meth, modafinil, nicotine, caffeine, pre-workouts, adderall, etc and when other people are bouncing off the walls, I'm bored and ready to go home to bed.

I dim the lights from about 8pm so there's no light but the tv til 9pm-ish. I get ready for bed at 9:30 and then read for 30mins in bed til 10:30pm. Then just lie there in the dark, no noise or lights or anything really, until my alarm goes off again at 6:30am. No devices between 8:30pm and 6:30am most nights. Bedroom.stays pretty cool. About 10deg celcius most nights right now. I just lie there awake.
Can't drop off. Sometime Stilnox helps but only for a couple of nights. Then it stops working. Weed makes me sleepy and a decent dose of ghb does too, but obviously I can't have that sort of stuff 7 nights a week!

I know i don't HAVE to get 8 hours sleep every night. But whats happening is that any time i get less than 6½ish, i don't feel rested. Most nights i only get 2-4hrs sleep and i feel like a zombie all day. There's also 1 or 2 nights every week where i can't fall asleep at all and i feel like a total head case the next day. I know i can function fairly well on about 6hrs, most nights, but for several months now, my insomnia has been so terrible i'm only getting 2-4hrs a night, if i'm lucky.

I'm just looking for any other ideas I havent thought off? Never heard of N2Sleep. I will look into it...
I've tried pharmaceuticalgrade GABA. I bought it as a raw powder about 8 years ago and had some every night but it didn't help at all.

And GABAergic drugs like benzos, have no sedative effect on me at all. My gp has just suggested a sleeping tablet called Suvorexant, which I might try but unfortunately it's not on the pbs and cost $75 a box! Tryptophan I haven't had for about 15 years. I think it might have still been legal back then. Maybe I'll try that again? Things like magnesium, kava, Zinc, Rescue Remedy and melatonin tablets have been totally useless at any dose...

I'm feeling really hopeless and really desperate for a decent sleep. Please, if anyone can help me, I'm all ears...
Thanks

Mobster said:
On supps - look at N2Sleep. It includes a small dose of GABA which might help. Ditto tryptophan (present in milk).

LevButlerov · May 11, 2024

thefire49 said:
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
I did lose 20% of my body weight but i was only 75kgs to begin with though, so i've never been huge or obese. I got down to 58kgs by eating in a deficit and weight training 4 days a week. I've never had sleep apnea. I know this because i did an overnight sleep study (for a different reason) and I'm sure they would have picked it up if i had it and wpuld have said so.
As for no stims etc: i already do all this. I don't exercise or eat anything after about 8:30pm. Very rarely drink coffee. Maybe one cup a week when I visit my nanna for lunch on Wednesdays. No other stimulants.
Stims don't seem to effect me much anyway. I've had things like speed, coke, Ritalin, meth, modafinil, nicotine, caffeine, pre-workouts, adderall, etc and when other people are bouncing off the walls, I'm bored and ready to go home to bed.

I dim the lights from about 8pm so there's no light but the tv til 9pm-ish. I get ready for bed at 9:30 and then read for 30mins in bed til 10:30pm. Then just lie there in the dark, no noise or lights or anything really, until my alarm goes off again at 6:30am. No devices between 8:30pm and 6:30am most nights. Bedroom.stays pretty cool. About 10deg celcius most nights right now. I just lie there awake.
Can't drop off. Sometime Stilnox helps but only for a couple of nights. Then it stops working. Weed makes me sleepy and a decent dose of ghb does too, but obviously I can't have that sort of stuff 7 nights a week!

I know i don't HAVE to get 8 hours sleep every night. But whats happening is that any time i get less than 6½ish, i don't feel rested. Most nights i only get 2-4hrs sleep and i feel like a zombie all day. There's also 1 or 2 nights every week where i can't fall asleep at all and i feel like a total head case the next day. I know i can function fairly well on about 6hrs, most nights, but for several months now, my insomnia has been so terrible i'm only getting 2-4hrs a night, if i'm lucky.

I'm just looking for any other ideas I havent thought off? Never heard of N2Sleep. I will look into it...
I've tried pharmaceuticalgrade GABA. I bought it as a raw powder about 8 years ago and had some every night but it didn't help at all.

And GABAergic drugs like benzos, have no sedative effect on me at all. My gp has just suggested a sleeping tablet called Suvorexant, which I might try but unfortunately it's not on the pbs and cost $75 a box! Tryptophan I haven't had for about 15 years. I think it might have still been legal back then. Maybe I'll try that again? Things like magnesium, kava, Zinc, Rescue Remedy and melatonin tablets have been totally useless at any dose...

I'm feeling really hopeless and really desperate for a decent sleep. Please, if anyone can help me, I'm all ears...
Thanks

@thefire49 did you read my request about starting a LOG journal? it would help us help you a lot
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...life-and-limiting-my-gains.99236/post-1531608

Insomnia destroying my life and limiting my gains!

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