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Hey now. Don't knock it until you try it. LOL.
Hey now. Don't knock it until you try it. LOL.
lol can you imagine back when they hooked up grannies with AAS for their anemia and they got enlarged clits. i'm sure grandpa had some fun with that
Thats hilarious. I have to say that enlarged is not a bad thing. Its not sticking out like a dick. It just got a little fatter. The one thing that changed is she doesnt get horny when she does situps like she did back in the 90's. Yah that actually happens.
With two conditions, the first being I think rat studies are not that reliable, and the 4g figure in humans needs to be reduced to convert from animal to human (I think it was 3mg/kg in the study, but the conversion for a rat is .162, so 3*.162*80 is the human dose in the study,) and I think it comes out to more like 40mg/day in that study, but there is a significant margin of safety in the conversion formula, so honest who the fuck knows. I think you are almost certainly right re Cardarine, especially because the study was 1/6 of the animal’s life. It still falls outside the rules I’ve set for myself, though. Which is totally personal. I’d never tell somebody else not to take it based on that study.
Yeah I wish I knew what the conversion is. But the other part is, to date, still true - not one case.
https://www.jkom.org/upload/31-3 01 [01-07].pdf
The problem with rat cancer studies is that in the human world everybody knows there is a genetic predisposition to cancer, and thus we don’t suggest things for people with bad cancer risks that are fine for normal people. These rats are several times more likely than that sickly aunt to get cancer, plus the conversion formulas have a margin of safety built in, which makes them more qualitative than quantitative in my opinion.
My reasoning against Cardarine is that it seems like such an amazing drug in that it both increases life and health span, that it would have been a commercial marvel, yet they didn’t try to push through that one study. I know drug companies like to make money ;-). On the other hand, my own political ideology tells me that overregulation of some of these testing protocols has probably kept a number of great drugs out of circulation for bad reasons.
we already know the answer to this, it is because they aren't gonna approve something for PED purposes and that is what sarms has been shown to be good for. there are sarms that have been abandoned, and some that are still in the process of being approved. to be approved you have to show it has health benefits long term. even so it means nothing because in fitness we take the PED and jack up the dose regardless just as mobster said earlier in the thread. example nobody uses 100mgs of test and 1iu a day of hgh to compete in a show, not even a normal joe who is a weekend warrior uses those types of dosages. we like to JACK UP the dosages. 200mgs of test? not enough. 300? 500? okay now you are talking but then we gotta add in another injectable and an oral too. that is how we stack steroids. for sarms, it would be the equivalent of running 2mgs of RAD with 2.5mgs of GW for a cycle. literally makes no sense. so approval or not it won't make a lick of difference how we use them, if they got approved tomorrow nobody is going in to see their anti aging doctor and request to fork over $$$ to run therapeutic dosages when we go can online and buy them from umbrella for cheaper and run dosages that actually boost athletic performance.
Seems like you have quite the similarity in the original poster of this thread, hmm
I agree with you as I often do Mobster. The people that have been doing this a long time make recommendations based on what would be more safe or more ideal for people. I have learned from you, Dylan, Steve and Rick especially about the importance of getting enough information to give the best recommendations possible.
Huh? No idea what you even mean. I don’t lie or fake anything. I was not raised that way.
also to add what i said GW was very under the radar in the late 2000's. a few coaches knew about this stuff and an article was written about it in the NYT and a couple other publications in 2007. and by the 2008 olympics A LOT of athletes were abusing it ahead of the games. zero ways to test for it so if you were lucky enough to know about it you had an advantage over your peers and it wasn't a cheap drug that was easy to get. the stuff ran hundreds of dollars for a gram of it. i'm sure a lot of dudes made a fortune selling it during this time.
btw it got abandoned in 2007 before it was even widely used which had zilch to do with the FDA. Was purely a business decision. most pharma companies LOSE MONEY and this one is a sure fire loser too, why? cause granny isn't interested in getting a script for a drug that helps her run faster. and no doctor is gonna prescribe a PED to someone and then dose them 15X the therapeutic dose so they can take 30 seconds off their 5K time. fitness people will still use something to gain an advantage over their peers whether it’s legal or not, and are gonna buy it underground or the black market. they aren't going to doctors to get on grams of gear lol. so no its not a conspiracy, it is all about $$$.
i know for me if i had access to this stuff when i competed in endurance triathlons i would have been all over it and i wouldn't bother going to a doctor to get a script, i'm gonna buy it underground for a helluva lot less
btw it got abandoned in 2007 before it was even widely used which had zilch to do with the FDA. Was purely a business decision. most pharma companies LOSE MONEY and this one is a sure fire loser too, why? cause granny isn't interested in getting a script for a drug that helps her run faster. and no doctor is gonna prescribe a PED to someone and then dose them 15X the therapeutic dose so they can take 30 seconds off their 5K time. fitness people will still use something to gain an advantage over their peers whether it’s legal or not, and are gonna buy it underground or the black market. they aren't going to doctors to get on grams of gear lol. so no its not a conspiracy, it is all about $$$.
i know for me if i had access to this stuff when i competed in endurance triathlons i would have been all over it and i wouldn't bother going to a doctor to get a script, i'm gonna buy it underground for a helluva lot less
Glad to have you on board.
Amazing bro....thanks for sharing your experience with us..............
Again, I don’t know why they didn’t continue, but Cardarine isn’t a SARM, which may be a technicality here, but in drug development it isn’t. It’s a PPAR agonist, which I am sure you know, and that is a category of drugs that companies have been trying to develop forever, because of their beneficial uses outside of sport. For example, Telmisartan is the only other PPAR-D agonist known, and it is a bit of a wonder drug because it does what PPAR agonists do. To wit, it lowers blood pressure, improves lipids, improves glucose management, improves metabolic outcomes and improves cardiovascular performance. Unfortunately, it doesn’t do any of these things as well as Cardarine does.
All of that was basically my point. Cardarine is exactly the kind of drug that people have been trying to develop for its cardio/lipid enhancing profile, which, as far as I can tell, is exactly why people here take it on cycle, as 10% performance enhancer, 90% health prophylactic. If you asked a drug company if they would like to be the ones to develop an alternative to Micardis/Telmisartan that works 3-4x as well for improving health markers, any one would jump at the chance, which is why I am personally skeptical of the safety profile of a drug that was dropped when its benefits were so high.
As I’ve said, I think it’s probably safe, just outside my risk matrix. But I don’t think it was discontinued because it was a SARM, it isn’t, or because it improves athletic performance. There are tons of approved drugs that increase athletic performance as an ancillary benefit to their other features. People have been searching for a better PPAR D agonist for a long time, and often they find cancer issues. They will keep looking, it just isn’t going to be Cardarine, and none of us really knows why at this point.
TL;DR version: In a country that is filthy with metabolic syndrome issues, every drug company and the FDA are dying to push through the ultimate lipid/BP/glucose management drug, it’s probably not a conspiracy against steroid users that this drug didn’t make it.
^^ yes cardarine is a drug, not a sarm
if you look at the list of sarms and sarm like compounds there are still many still in development and many that were abandoned by the drug companies.
your post is spot on across the board.
the last paragraph though to your point as someone who has used GW many many times. it is good, but it aint that good. for me if i use it say 4 weeks daily at 20mgs a day i can knock like 20 seconds off my 1 mile time. that is amazing for someone who trains their balls off like i do and who at my age 20 seconds off a 1 mile time is like the fountain of youth. those who have used it, many haven't gotten much out of it cause they don't train on it and they don't know how to diet.
we know from the studies it works infinitely better when you train and diet on the stuff but it won't do much of anything if you are a couch potato. and you have to consider 20mgs a day is way beyond any sort of therapeutic dose that anyone would use anyway. so really it isn't that magical UNLESS you train on the stuff, then yes it will most certainly give you that edge that can help you beat your opponent ... so approving it wouldn't have amounted to as much as you think here JMO since most americans have metabolic problems and most eat like the shittiest diet you can imagine. i know MANY who haven't eaten a fruit or veggie in YEARS, those people aren't gonna hop on GW at 2mgs a day and go anywhere, it would be a waste of time for them
if you look at the list of sarms and sarm like compounds there are still many still in development and many that were abandoned by the drug companies.
your post is spot on across the board.
the last paragraph though to your point as someone who has used GW many many times. it is good, but it aint that good. for me if i use it say 4 weeks daily at 20mgs a day i can knock like 20 seconds off my 1 mile time. that is amazing for someone who trains their balls off like i do and who at my age 20 seconds off a 1 mile time is like the fountain of youth. those who have used it, many haven't gotten much out of it cause they don't train on it and they don't know how to diet.
we know from the studies it works infinitely better when you train and diet on the stuff but it won't do much of anything if you are a couch potato. and you have to consider 20mgs a day is way beyond any sort of therapeutic dose that anyone would use anyway. so really it isn't that magical UNLESS you train on the stuff, then yes it will most certainly give you that edge that can help you beat your opponent ... so approving it wouldn't have amounted to as much as you think here JMO since most americans have metabolic problems and most eat like the shittiest diet you can imagine. i know MANY who haven't eaten a fruit or veggie in YEARS, those people aren't gonna hop on GW at 2mgs a day and go anywhere, it would be a waste of time for them
Totally agree. Drugs, especially for those treating metabolic syndrome, are not going to work well without diet and exercise improvement. Same goes for test and other AAS. Yes, you can get some benefits from going on TRT if you are hypogonadal, but they aren’t going to be the ones you would get from going on and changing lifestyle.
this is why I am 100% against these diabetes drugs for weight loss. people take these for months on end but are not aware of the sides and effects it has on the gut. there is no such thing as a magic pill with our bodies. i wonder if one day such a thing will exist. probably not, our bodies are too complex and fixing one thing and creating other problems makes no sense
absolutely right! everyone seems to think that what they are taking does all the work and that could not be further from the truth.. you can take everything under the sun but without diet and training you will never get anywhere
