Approved Log My TRT cycle Log

[AE1079]

I find in practical terms tamoxifen is better with gyno imo

Tamoxifen is known for clotting blood, so it’s not a great long term therapy for steroid induced gyno. It can still keep E2 relatively high, it stops the binding for sure but it does increase total clotting in blood leading to more health risks.. did someone say primo?

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Tamoxifen is known for clotting blood, so it’s not a great long term therapy for steroid induced gyno. It can still keep E2 relatively high, it stops the binding for sure but it does increase total clotting in blood leading to more health risks.. did someone say primo?

I knew you would bring up primbolan @AE1079

You're citing which study on the tamoxifen and blood clots?
possible I just havent seen it.

We are mainly tamoxifen vs raloxifene convo here

 

[AE1079]

I knew you would bring up primbolan @AE1079

You're citing which study on the tamoxifen and blood clots?
possible I just havent seen it.

We are mainly tamoxifen vs raloxifene convo here

I’m saying tamoxifen isn’t always a great drug for certain people, steroid users generally have high hematocrit levels, with cholesterol and plaque build up if they aren’t careful, imagine that mixture with now some clotting.

It’s quite well known bro! Get stuck into the research my man!!

 

[AE1079]

I knew you would bring up primbolan @AE1079

You're citing which study on the tamoxifen and blood clots?
possible I just havent seen it.

We are mainly tamoxifen vs raloxifene convo here

The never ending battle of Eddie and AE - Tamoxifen vs Primo all love bro, I would like to see raloxifene as a better alternative, will do some research on this for sure

 

[LevButlerov]

Tamoxifen is known for clotting blood, so it’s not a great long term therapy for steroid induced gyno. It can still keep E2 relatively high, it stops the binding for sure but it does increase total clotting in blood leading to more health risks.. did someone say primo?

I’m saying tamoxifen isn’t always a great drug for certain people, steroid users generally have high hematocrit levels, with cholesterol and plaque build up if they aren’t careful, imagine that mixture with now some clotting.

It’s quite well known bro! Get stuck into the research my man!!

The never ending battle of Eddie and AE - Tamoxifen vs Primo all love bro, I would like to see raloxifene as a better alternative, will do some research on this for sure

I knew you would bring up primbolan @AE1079

You're citing which study on the tamoxifen and blood clots?
possible I just havent seen it.

We are mainly tamoxifen vs raloxifene convo here

@AE1079 @Eddie Haskell sorry I'm late to this party. @Eddie Haskell thanks for the heads up.

@AE1079 The main study, to my knowledge, used by bodybuilders to cite blood clotting with tamoxifen is this one:
Correlation of the tamoxifen use with the increased risk of deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolism in elderly women with breast cancer
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6320050/

Tamoxifen use is associated with 1.95-fold increased odds of deep vein thrombosis or pulmonary embolism among older women with breast cancer in Taiwan.

However, the issue of clotting/thrombosis is a common trait to all SERMS and women. Raloxifene has the same issue, which is likely related to estrogenic activity in general.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK76313/

There was a significantly greater risk of either DVT or PE in women receiving raloxifene, with 189 (68%) out of 279 events occurring in women receiving raloxifene (OR 1.62, 95% CI: 1.25, 2.09, p<0.001).

deep vein thrombosis =DVT for readers.

Would primobolan treat existing gynecomastia (lump form)? I have my doubts, and I haven't seen anecdotal evidence of this either. Nonetheless, I am open to changing my mind if more evidence is presented.

Ultimately, The OP @onebaldwonder will have to make the decision, but my advice would be to moderate Ai and SERM doses for safety sake.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

@AE1079 @Eddie Haskell sorry I'm late to this party. @Eddie Haskell thanks for the heads up.

@AE1079 The main study, to my knowledge, used by bodybuilders to cite blood clotting with tamoxifen is this one:
Correlation of the tamoxifen use with the increased risk of deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolism in elderly women with breast cancer
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6320050/



However, the issue of clotting/thrombosis is a common trait to all SERMS and women. Raloxifene has the same issue, which is likely related to estrogenic activity in general.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK76313/


deep vein thrombosis =DVT for readers.

Would primobolan treat existing gynecomastia (lump form)? I have my doubts, and I haven't seen anecdotal evidence of this either. Nonetheless, I am open to changing my mind if more evidence is presented.

Ultimately, The OP @onebaldwonder will have to make the decision, but my advice would be to moderate Ai and SERM doses for safety sake.

Nice I just clicked the studies checking them @LevButlerov thanks

 

[RoySimpson]

-32 years old
-balding without gear
-20-25% BF?
-6.1ft
-228lbs
-Attached photo was taken on November 6th 2024
-the two blood tests attached, the one in the green numbers was taken on the 4th November 2024, the one with a number of parameters in red was taken on December 11th 2024.
-No prior steroid cycles, however back in 2018 approximately I took a sarms cycle consisting of the following:
-Rad140
-Lgd4033
-mk677
-mk2866
All of those was taken at the recommended lower label dosage for an extended period of time, to memory approximately 3months. No PCT was conducted after this.

History of mental health issues, recently came off a substantial amount of medication with guidance of the health care professional, these was:
-Priadel lithium @1200mg
-Biquelle XL @ 150mg
-Diazepam @ 6mg
-Venleflaxine @ 300mg
these was weaned down over a period of several months, i was clear of any medication approximately 4 weeks prior to initial blood test.

self administered TRT which escalated into a cycle.

Today Tuesday 17th December I had an appointment with a HRT specialist, advised to stop taking Test(e)300, wean myself off and upon completion of the vial. Wait 2-3months before another consultation to see where I stand within their practice.

Started injecting test(e)300 approximately 6 weeks ago, began dose at 0.15-0.2ml per injection twice weekly. Was feeling great so lack of experience and poor judgement I jumped to 0.3ml EOD. Attached below is my supplier aswell the remaining steroid in the vial, I did not start with any AI or SERM. I have order Aromasin and Nolvadex on the 16th December 2024, as I am experiencing what seems to be E2 related gyno or potentially prolactin.

Supporting vitamins:
-Vitamin D3+K2(Mk-7) by nutrition geeks from amazon (taken in morning)
-P5P (taken in morning)
-Vitamin B12(taken in morning)
-L-Lysine (for coldsores)
-Magnesium glycinate 3-1 nutrition geeks
-Zinc

Started a workout and food log on Monday 9th December

Pure Gym and works Gym are used, certain machines are displayed as 1-20, unclear on weight. Other machines are labelled so forgive any inconsistencies.

Monday 9th December
Food:
2xdouble bacon&egg Mcmuffin, 1xcaramel latte, 1xlatte, basmatti rice with chicken x 2, 0.3ml test(e) 300, 2 red sugar free redbull.
Gym-chest
Design = reps @ weight
Flat bb bench
1.15@80 2.12@90 3.8@90 4.10@90
DB incline
4 sets was performed @ 35kg, reps was not counted.
Cable fly (pin height 31)
1.23@3 2.16@5 3.14@5 4.11@5
No abs and no cardio

Tuesday 10th December
Food:
4 eggs, 2 toast with peanut butter/butter
2 portions of chicken and basmatti rice
Oxtail soup,cinnamon bagel, chicken breast
3 sugar free red bull
Gym-arms
Cable rope pushdown
1.23@8 2.16@9 3.15@9 4.12@9
Straight bar pushdown
1.21@10 2.20@12 3.12@14 4.13@14
Overhead rope extension
1.10@6 2.9@6 3.10@6 4.11@6
Cable straight bar curl
1.19@8 2.13@8 3.13@8 4.14@8
Cable rope hammer
1.14@7 2.19@7 3.13@7 4.12@7
Decline Cable curl
1.10@4 2.10@4 3.12@4 4.10@4
Cable crunches, no cardio

Wednesday 11th December
Food:
1 mocha, 2 caramel squares, 1 bacon bap
3 portions of chicken and basmatti rice
1 sugar free monster
0.3ml test(e) 300
Gym-shoulders
DB lat raise
1.15@10 2.16@10 3.13@10
Db shoulder press
1.9@30 2.9@30 3.7@30
Cable rope facepulls
1.18@10 2.11@10 3.12@10
Cable lat raise (pin height 5)
1.12@2 2.18@2 3.15@2
Bb shrugs
1.12@80 2.19@80 3.10@80
Cardio-treadmill 20mins speed 7, 0 incline

Thursday 12th December
Food:
5 eggs, 2 toast with peanut butter/butter
Homemade chicken soup
Chicken and basmatti rice x 2
1 sugar free monster, 1 donut
Gym-legs
Knee extensions
1.19@8 2.25@8 3.24@8 4.24@8
Front squat
1.12@50 2.13@50 3.15@50
Calf raises standing
1.20@12 2.19@12 3.23@12
Hamstring curl seated
1.14@8 2.13@8 3.11@8
Cardio-treadmil 15mins @ speed 6, 0 incline.

Friday 13th December
Forgot to monitor today, however today was back, no Cardio or abs done.

Saturday 14th December
Food:
4 eggs, 1 toast with peanut butter/butter
Princess,sweets,chocolate
2 sugar free monster
Chicken soup
Gym-chest
Incline smith bench(seat pin 4)
1.14@90 2.10@90 3.10@9 4.13@90
Guillotine press
1.12@60 2.13@60 3.11@60
incline DB press(pin height 3)
1.12@30 2.8@34 3.8@34
Cable fly (pin height 16)
1.20@14 2.16@14 3.12@14 4.10@14
Hanging leg raises
1.16 2.22 4.19
Cable rope pushdown
1.16@36 2.13@36 3.12@36
Cardio-treadmil 15mins @ speed 6, 0incline

Sunday 15th December
Food:
2 eggs, tim Hortons breakfast wrap
Sunday dinner
0.2ml test(e)300
Gym-legs
Calf raise seated
Forgot to note
Knee extension
Forgot to note
Perfect squat machine
1.18@60 2.11@80 3.10@80 4.9@80
Cannonball squat BB
1.16@80 2.11@100 3.8@100(pause reps)
Walking BB lunge
1.19@20 2.22@20 3.18@20 dropped to 10@BW

Monday 16th December
Food:
Porridge with water&blueberries
5 eggs
2 X chicken and basmatti rice
Gym-rest

Tuesday 17th December
Food:
Porridge with water&blueberries
4 eggs
3 x chicken and basmatti rice
1xmocha
Gym-chest
Forgot to note

Working hours 1448-2258, typically asleep by 0100, awake with family by 0600-0700.

I hope this provides adequate information.

@onebaldwonder solid work her bro keep it up!

 

[ballin2504]

The gyno isn’t as bad as you think

 

[AE1079]

@LevButlerov I don’t think Primobolan would act as a treatment for pre-existing gyno, it’s simply not strong enough and that’s not the intended use of methenolone. Treatment would simply be surgery, the option of using SERM/AIs is presented as a reactive or proactive measure for the potential of steroid induced gyno.

Going through logs both @Eddie Haskell and myself are seeing even just at TRT doses, men with high E2, aromatising rates are higher now I feel - which can be correlated to more people using testosterone and using bloodwork.

I just feel like there needs to be better options or even pre requisites to avoid these issues. Type 1 and 2 AIs have their use in bodybuilding but the use of these if far more dangerous in SOME cases. I think the combination of side effects in terms of blood viscosity and high BP caused by gear can exacerbate potential harm of these SERMs.

So instead of throwing a drug at it what can we do? Diet and exercise? Knowing what micro nutrients to combat the above? I thimk
We should be looking at these points first and using AI/SERMs as a last resort.

 

[onebaldwonder]

@AE1079 @Eddie Haskell sorry I'm late to this party. @Eddie Haskell thanks for the heads up.

@AE1079 The main study, to my knowledge, used by bodybuilders to cite blood clotting with tamoxifen is this one:
Correlation of the tamoxifen use with the increased risk of deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolism in elderly women with breast cancer
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6320050/



However, the issue of clotting/thrombosis is a common trait to all SERMS and women. Raloxifene has the same issue, which is likely related to estrogenic activity in general.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK76313/


deep vein thrombosis =DVT for readers.

Would primobolan treat existing gynecomastia (lump form)? I have my doubts, and I haven't seen anecdotal evidence of this either. Nonetheless, I am open to changing my mind if more evidence is presented.

Ultimately, The OP @onebaldwonder will have to make the decision, but my advice would be to moderate Ai and SERM doses for safety sake.

Thanks for the link to the study and it's something I came across whilst digging into it myself, my now new concern is my grandad actually died from DVT.

So with that new discovery I'm going have to be considerably more conservative with dosages, as stated prior I've lowered the TEST(E)300 to 100mg a week, with that my E2 and prolactin levels should decrease naturally from the 300mg/wk dose and I'm going to lower to the nolvadex to 40mg for the remainder of this week then drop to 20, I'd rather reduce E2 slower then increase risks of clotting. Then come the new year after only been on Aromasin and Nolvadex for approximately 11 days get my blood work done, that in combination to reducing testosterone dose should but me in a place where I am able to stop both AI and SERM. lesson learned that I'm sensitive to estrogen and have a poor threshold for testosterone ethanate.

That way if bloodwork comes back within respectable levels then I can just use 3mg of aromasin to keep E2 down to prevent the need for a SERM and gyno problems occurring again in future. Although on a 100mg/week dose I couldn't imagine that been the case but I could just be that unlucky.

Thoughts on this plan of action?

 

[onebaldwonder]

Friday 20th December 2024

Food
Breakfast
Porridge 50g and bblueberries, chicken breast(no eggs)
Meal 1
Korean style chicken bites, 4 slices of seaded multigrain bloomer, leek and potato soup
Meal 2
chicken breast and 250g basmatti rice
Meal 3
chicken breast and approx 150g pistachio nuts
Meal 4
4 eggs

Gym - Back
Sets.reps@weight/pin stack
Lat pull down
1.12@12 2.12@12 3.8@12
Lat pulldown behind head
1.11@8 2.14@8 3.8@8
Seated overhand cable row
1.19@14 2.17@16 3.13@18 4.10@18
Cable rope low row
1.12@10 2.12@10 3.10@10
T-bar row
1.10@70 2.11@70 3.7@70
Cable crunch super set with unsupported lying leg raises
1.18@10 -> 10 2.15@10 -> 15

Cardio
treadmil at end of workout 10mins@9kmph before my knees and bitch tit started crying then 10mins@7kmph

12.5mg aromasin taken
60mg Nolvadex
0.15ml Test(e)300

 

[Eddie Haskell]

@LevButlerov I don’t think Primobolan would act as a treatment for pre-existing gyno, it’s simply not strong enough and that’s not the intended use of methenolone. Treatment would simply be surgery, the option of using SERM/AIs is presented as a reactive or proactive measure for the potential of steroid induced gyno.

Going through logs both @Eddie Haskell and myself are seeing even just at TRT doses, men with high E2, aromatising rates are higher now I feel - which can be correlated to more people using testosterone and using bloodwork.

I just feel like there needs to be better options or even pre requisites to avoid these issues. Type 1 and 2 AIs have their use in bodybuilding but the use of these if far more dangerous in SOME cases. I think the combination of side effects in terms of blood viscosity and high BP caused by gear can exacerbate potential harm of these SERMs.

So instead of throwing a drug at it what can we do? Diet and exercise? Knowing what micro nutrients to combat the above? I thimk
We should be looking at these points first and using AI/SERMs as a last resort.

@AE1079 I think we should explore primobolan for gynecomastia, even masteron but not lump form.

I think @onebaldwonder does need to work on diet and training and cardio for sure, as those are likely leading factors on hormone imbalances.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Thanks for the link to the study and it's something I came across whilst digging into it myself, my now new concern is my grandad actually died from DVT.

So with that new discovery I'm going have to be considerably more conservative with dosages, as stated prior I've lowered the TEST(E)300 to 100mg a week, with that my E2 and prolactin levels should decrease naturally from the 300mg/wk dose and I'm going to lower to the nolvadex to 40mg for the remainder of this week then drop to 20, I'd rather reduce E2 slower then increase risks of clotting. Then come the new year after only been on Aromasin and Nolvadex for approximately 11 days get my blood work done, that in combination to reducing testosterone dose should but me in a place where I am able to stop both AI and SERM. lesson learned that I'm sensitive to estrogen and have a poor threshold for testosterone ethanate.

That way if bloodwork comes back within respectable levels then I can just use 3mg of aromasin to keep E2 down to prevent the need for a SERM and gyno problems occurring again in future. Although on a 100mg/week dose I couldn't imagine that been the case but I could just be that unlucky.

Thoughts on this plan of action?

That DVT is for old ladies wont impact you. You can easily stay with 150mgs TRT no issues but 3mgs aromasin why the low dose?

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Friday 20th December 2024

Food
Breakfast
Porridge 50g and bblueberries, chicken breast(no eggs)
Meal 1
Korean style chicken bites, 4 slices of seaded multigrain bloomer, leek and potato soup
Meal 2
chicken breast and 250g basmatti rice
Meal 3
chicken breast and approx 150g pistachio nuts
Meal 4
4 eggs

Gym - Back
Sets.reps@weight/pin stack
Lat pull down
1.12@12 2.12@12 3.8@12
Lat pulldown behind head
1.11@8 2.14@8 3.8@8
Seated overhand cable row
1.19@14 2.17@16 3.13@18 4.10@18
Cable rope low row
1.12@10 2.12@10 3.10@10
T-bar row
1.10@70 2.11@70 3.7@70
Cable crunch super set with unsupported lying leg raises
1.18@10 -> 10 2.15@10 -> 15

Cardio
treadmil at end of workout 10mins@9kmph before my knees and bitch tit started crying then 10mins@7kmph

12.5mg aromasin taken
60mg Nolvadex
0.15ml Test(e)300

you have knee issues walking up treadmill? you mean pain?

food still lacking fats, a lot of lacking of fats, we need to add walnuts not just pistachios and can you add fish oil?

 

[AE1079]

Agreed

@AE1079 I think we should explore primobolan for gynecomastia, even masteron but not lump form.

I think @onebaldwonder does need to work on diet and training and cardio for sure, as those are likely leading factors on hormone imbalances.

 

[onebaldwonder]

That DVT is for old ladies wont impact you. You can easily stay with 150mgs TRT no issues but 3mgs aromasin why the low dose?

you have knee issues walking up treadmill? you mean pain?

food still lacking fats, a lot of lacking of fats, we need to add walnuts not just pistachios and can you add fish oil?

Because most people don't react as severe or get poor blood work results from 300mg/wk of Test(e) so if I lower it to 100mg/Wk for the remainder of the cycle and have a good experience than I know that's a tolerable dose for me. I can then increase to 150mg/wk the next time, the low dose of aromasin is because of the low dose of Test(e). Most people don't require an AI or SERM at these dosages but I'm just unlucky, so by using the low dose Aromasin Hypothetically that's all I'll need for the low dose of Test(e).

I served in the army as infantry, proceeded to I company and specialised in Javelin (just to give context as to amount of weight carried). So my knees are shot, I love running but unfortunately I can't do weights and running on a serious level and at the moment I'm prioritising bodybuilding, so I can only run for shorter periods of time at slower paces.

Meh I really dislike high fats when I'm trying to clean, I don't like walnuts so I'd rather snack on some cashews or pistachios. I have a number of vitamins in my Amazon basket but unfortunately this time of year I can't just buy them all, doing the best I can atm.

 

[onebaldwonder]

Forgot to write the vitamins in my basket, they are:
-Taurine
-Evening primrose oil
-Tumeric
-Nattokinase
-Omega 3 fish oil

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Because most people don't react as severe or get poor blood work results from 300mg/wk of Test(e) so if I lower it to 100mg/Wk for the remainder of the cycle and have a good experience than I know that's a tolerable dose for me. I can then increase to 150mg/wk the next time, the low dose of aromasin is because of the low dose of Test(e). Most people don't require an AI or SERM at these dosages but I'm just unlucky, so by using the low dose Aromasin Hypothetically that's all I'll need for the low dose of Test(e).

I served in the army as infantry, proceeded to I company and specialised in Javelin (just to give context as to amount of weight carried). So my knees are shot, I love running but unfortunately I can't do weights and running on a serious level and at the moment I'm prioritising bodybuilding, so I can only run for shorter periods of time at slower paces.

Meh I really dislike high fats when I'm trying to clean, I don't like walnuts so I'd rather snack on some cashews or pistachios. I have a number of vitamins in my Amazon basket but unfortunately this time of year I can't just buy them all, doing the best I can atm.

Forgot to write the vitamins in my basket, they are:
-Taurine
-Evening primrose oil
-Tumeric
-Nattokinase
-Omega 3 fish oil

Sure higher fats can be hard but you need them for a hormonal balance and to get goals
Can you eat almonds?

On dosing, I think 300 to 100 is a steep drop, you should cruise on let’s say 200 first before cutting down to see how you feel , physically and mentally

In vitamins , you need organ liver support first, that’s n2guard made for steroid cycles , check n2bm.com

https://www.needtobuildmuscle.com/cycle-support/n2guard/

And you don’t need taurine n2guard has it , same with multivitamins

 

[Eddie Haskell]

@onebaldwonder
Update us please

 

[onebaldwonder]

Saturday 21st December 2024

Food
Meal 1
50g porridge and blueberries and 5 eggs
Meal 2
2 chicken breats and 250g microwave basmatti rice
Meal 3
1 chicken breast with honeymelon and 80g almonds

Additional 0.15ml Test(E)300 bringing me up to recommended 200mg/wk
60mg nolvadex

Gym-legs
Sets.reps@weight/pin stack
Narrow squat, heels on 1.25kg plate
1.12@90 2.9@100 3.8@100
RDL
1.12@100 2.9@100 3.8@100
Seated calf raise
1.16@60 2.11@70 3.10@70
Seated leg curl
1.10@52 2.8@52 3.11@45
Cardio, bike@resistance 6 , 20mins RPM above 90.

Extremely gassed during workout due to Manflu? Felt like i could of coughed up a ball.

Sunday 22nd December 2024
Food
Meal 1
80g almonds, 4 eggs, 50g Porridge and blueberries
Meal 2
1 chocolate swirl cake, 2 chocolate oaty flapjacks, 2 ham and chicken sanwiches with minestrone soup
Meal 3
2 Chicken breasts, 125g microwave basmatti rice and honeymelon

60mg nolvadex
12.5mg aromasin
Nipple sensitivity back after going from 100mg/wk to 200mg/wk

Gym-Chest
Incline smith bench (4 height)
1.13@90 2.12@100 3.7@100 4.10@80
Smith flat bench
1.10@80 2.13@80 3.14@80 4.9@80
Cable fly (16 height)
1.21@14 2.12@18 3.12@18
Db pullover
1.12@22 2.12@22 3.10@22
Lat raise db
1.21@8 2.15@8 3.16@8
Bike@resistance 7 romantic above 90 for 20mins

Breathing was noticeably better however still almost coughed up a nut because of how small they are now