Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below 
Read Stevesmi's reply
Read Stevesmi's reply
Oh, I totally agree with him, and you, that bloods are necessary for everything. At 250/250 Deca and test, I am at 42.9 E, which isn’t really high enough for me to justify much AI, but anything higher would be. I have boringly normal bloods except for my lipid profile, which is slightly low HDL but super low LDL, unless I take var and then it goes haywire, like my ldl close to triples (prescription/pharma var so legit,) and slightly high hematocrit, but I live at very high elevation, so it is within normal bounds to the point that my doc doesn’t suggest donating.
It's not that (although bloods play a part) but ALL the other issues Stevesmi mentions.
One point I've made in the past is the broscience of an AI somehow inhibiting gains. I'd rather lose as percent or two vs the potential for side effects.
And it cannot be the small additional cost
Right. I’ve never had any of the sides he mentioned, at least not to an observable degree. The issue for me is that estrogen is heart protective, and I want to maintain mine in the level that is, but it’s bad when it gets to the level that causes ancillary heart related issues, like too much water for BP etc. I wouldn’t do this if I didn’t care about gains, but they come far below my health and well being at this point in life (happily married 25 years, finally able to enjoy the things we’ve always planned for etc.).
In most things, diet, cardio etc, I am willing to do the things I dislike in order to make safe and possible the things I do like. Estrogen inhibition isn’t like that. I don’t care about it other than keeping E in a healthy range. I have no prejudice against or for.
In most things, diet, cardio etc, I am willing to do the things I dislike in order to make safe and possible the things I do like. Estrogen inhibition isn’t like that. I don’t care about it other than keeping E in a healthy range. I have no prejudice against or for.
Not worth the shitty sides!!
I would strongly suggest looking into the side effects and dangers of having elevated estrogen in men
You should always do bloodwork and treat high E levels accordingly.
Some people are less prone to high E and there are things you can do to help avoid spikes. But if your E levels get of range you should definitely take an AI.
As others have mentioned, there are several other issues caused by elevated E other than gyno. Gyno is the most talked about side because it is the most physically visible (other than maybe severe water bloat) and the one everyone wants to avoid. But believe me, you are putting your health at risk if you don't take AI when needed.
And FFS, it pisses me off that in this day and age, being an "influencer" is a thing and people get paid to spew bullshit
Some people are less prone to high E and there are things you can do to help avoid spikes. But if your E levels get of range you should definitely take an AI.
As others have mentioned, there are several other issues caused by elevated E other than gyno. Gyno is the most talked about side because it is the most physically visible (other than maybe severe water bloat) and the one everyone wants to avoid. But believe me, you are putting your health at risk if you don't take AI when needed.
And FFS, it pisses me off that in this day and age, being an "influencer" is a thing and people get paid to spew bullshit
Good thread. What would you all recommend for a TRT user of 200mg Test per week indefinitely? Looking for something that wont break the bank. Would plain old tamoxofin be a good choice for longterm use or Arimidex?
I would do just about anything to mitigate high E than to go on an AI long term. Short term, when using high amounts of AAS is different, but I don’t think TRT requires it when there are numerous ways to mitigate estrogen.
Ya ok. I do know that cutting out alcohol is probably the one biggest thing you can do which is what I did starting yesterday. Also eating clean on keto diet taking in at least 7 grams of EPA/DHA everyday.
Purported Aromatase Blockers
Blocking aromatase activity has mostly been studied in men. These results can’t be applied to women. That said, the following are hypothesized to reduce aromatase activity:
Losing excess body fat [16]
Increasing zinc, selenium, and magnesium intake to inhibit aromatase [19]
Increasing the intake of foods containing natural aromatase inhibitors, including mushrooms, celery, carrots, spinach, and grapes [20]
Reducing alcohol consumption [21]
Reducing carbohydrates, since a high carbohydrate diet may increase estrogen levels [6]
Blocking aromatase activity has mostly been studied in men. These results can’t be applied to women. That said, the following are hypothesized to reduce aromatase activity:
Losing excess body fat [16]
Increasing zinc, selenium, and magnesium intake to inhibit aromatase [19]
Increasing the intake of foods containing natural aromatase inhibitors, including mushrooms, celery, carrots, spinach, and grapes [20]
Reducing alcohol consumption [21]
Reducing carbohydrates, since a high carbohydrate diet may increase estrogen levels [6]
No comment on whether Keto diet is good for anything but quick water weight loss.
Splitting your TRT into smaller, more frequent injections is going to keep your levels steadier, and your sides down. Sides are more related to the highs and lows of your T levels than to your average levels.
Splitting your TRT into smaller, more frequent injections is going to keep your levels steadier, and your sides down. Sides are more related to the highs and lows of your T levels than to your average levels.
You think I should go 100mg Test Cyp twice a week then?
Are you injecting 200 once a week right now? That is going to give you the highest sides without doubt. IMO, people should split their dose into a many injections as possible. My TRT is 168 mg/wk and I inject 24 mg/day. IOW, I inject every day a little amount.
I can assure you that the keto diet is not just a quick water weight loss. Its all about what diet you can handle. I cant do a lower carb diet as I am hungry all the time. When I am in ketosis I am not hungry. Its easier for me as well since I love steak, eggs, cheese, and mayo. I am eating 1750-2000 cals per day. My fitbit shows me at 3500-4000 cals per day burned. Put on about 5 lbs of lean weight over the last 4 weeks since starting the TRT and keto diet.
- - - Updated - - -
That must be hard to measure out. I wonder if I should try going EOD. I will be getting my first labs since starting the TRT so my doc can see what needs to be changed. I wonder if I should just keep it at the once per week until after the labs are taken?
That's nonsense, where did you get this idea that ketogenic diets are water loss only? ketosis is one of the best ways to lean out and prep for shows.
I have 5 clients on ketogenic diets prepping for shows and 1 is doing a pro contest this Fall after the Olympia.
So I think you need to step back on these keto claims.
Maybe for YOU individually, you have a problem with ketogenic diets, that's feasible but it's not the general consensus in the industry.
- - - Updated - - -
I would keep injections to once a week until bloods and after it you can switch to 2x/week.
You know we have been waiting for your TRT log and got nothing, is it going up soon?
Holy overreaction. All I said was that ketogenic diets are particular in their lack of body water, and that they don’t have anything to do with aromatase. Diets work if you take in less calories than you expend. How you choose to do that as far as macros has very little overall effect in comparison. This has been been shown in a million studies, not really a live ball issue at this point.
not running an AI while running an aromatizing compound such as test or dbol or MENT is insane. some dont actually need one on lower doses but most do. of course you have to go by blood work but not at least having one on hand to use and most will need one, is DUMB. high estrogen causes a cascade of problems in a male both physically and mentally over time.
