Veteran Thread Some of you do too much - exercises and volume + fixes

[Mobster]

I'm fortunate, baring in mind my main focus is strength, that I have also over many years build a good degree of size and muscle. But as time goes on it might be argued that I'm a bit of an outlier. But while that MIGHT be true for me is it true for you? Probably not. So here's a question:

Why am I seeing a good few members doing what amounts to crazy amounts of volume and or far too many exercises? We can, in seconds, find top quality videos from, by way of example, multiple recent Mr Olympias. Be that CBum in classic or Hadi, Derek or Samson. All have arguably world class genetics. So why have we seen members doing (in one example) 6 exercises in one raining session for their delts. In another example (I even mentioned this on a podcast) was a younger member hitting 22 sets for biceps.

In those MrO videos we're not seeing Samson et al doing six exercises per bodypart in a single training session. Or 22 sets for a single relatively small bodypart. And again - these athletes have THE BEST genetics, are taking (again addressed in podcasts) high levels of PEDs and can literally live the lifestyle 24/7. Vs normal genetics and working.

Fixes
Do less. Like almost never going over 10 sets max. Split that over 3-4 exercises MAX per session.
Take the list of (as above) 6 exercises for delt and do HALF in one delt session and half in the next.
Instead of relying on the volume in and of itself learn to get more from less. Meaning, again by way of example, learning to squeeze real hard in the contracted position. Done properly you wont be able to do the old level of volume etc.

To be clear there will always be those who CAN do that level of what for others would be too much. Just as there will be those who do well on less than many.

 

[electus]

I agree with you 100% Mobster and I hope I'm not on the list with my 24 sets weekly for my back (my main focus point to bring up) .
They're probably to far away to failure and they try to compensate with volume what they can't do or won't do with intensity.

 

[stevesmi]

Scientifically, quality volume at 15 sets with great form beats high volume at 25 sets with shit form and I doubt anyone disagrees with that

But I think people do so much simply cause they enjoy training. It’s their one chance to get out of the house and enjoy those feel good hormones. Just like a runner who finds a nice trail and jogs an extra hour. So in some ways is therapeutic and their release or outlet.

But over time u will develop chronic injuries by hammering too hard. The body will punish you and you get set back anyway

the flip side of the argument i can make is when it comes to split routines. if you are doing a 3 day split, then i see no issues with 20-22 sets rotating individual muscles. I have actually done 2 day splits splitting upper/lower and going high volume on weeks i can't hit the gym enough times, like only 3x a week when i have busy months .. so it would be upper, lower, then upper, then the next week lower, upper, then lower with a rotation. when it comes to 5 day splits i can see 15 sets being enough. for powerlifting its going to be different then someone who is just going there to throw around weights for an hour to get their batter out of their system

one thing we ALL should agree on is the mistake people make with their shoulders. i see too many people hitting the shoulders with too much volume. its a mistake i made which led to my right shoulder getting torn to death and i don't want to see others make. when i see people doing overheads, inclines, shoulder presses, shoulder pulls, blah blah blah all the same workout then the next day they do flat bench, and DB push etc. that is way unnecessary on the shoulders as they take too much of a beating. with squats if you pound and pound then you will end up needing a hip replacement or knee replacement as you age. and then with arms, you pound too hard then expect wrist and elbow problems which can become chronic and make your life miserable. if you want to beat up on a muscle then beat up on your abs, those love high volume and you can do it daily

 

[Eddie Haskell]

I'm fortunate, baring in mind my main focus is strength, that I have also over many years build a good degree of size and muscle. But as time goes on it might be argued that I'm a bit of an outlier. But while that MIGHT be true for me is it true for you? Probably not. So here's a question:

Why am I seeing a good few members doing what amounts to crazy amounts of volume and or far too many exercises? We can, in seconds, find top quality videos from, by way of example, multiple recent Mr Olympias. Be that CBum in classic or Hadi, Derek or Samson. All have arguably world class genetics. So why have we seen members doing (in one example) 6 exercises in one raining session for their delts. In another example (I even mentioned this on a podcast) was a younger member hitting 22 sets for biceps.

In those MrO videos we're not seeing Samson et al doing six exercises per bodypart in a single training session. Or 22 sets for a single relatively small bodypart. And again - these athletes have THE BEST genetics, are taking (again addressed in podcasts) high levels of PEDs and can literally live the lifestyle 24/7. Vs normal genetics and working.

Fixes
Do less. Like almost never going over 10 sets max. Split that over 3-4 exercises MAX per session.
Take the list of (as above) 6 exercises for delt and do HALF in one delt session and half in the next.
Instead of relying on the volume in and of itself learn to get more from less. Meaning, again by way of example, learning to squeeze real hard in the contracted position. Done properly you wont be able to do the old level of volume etc.

To be clear there will always be those who CAN do that level of what for others would be too much. Just as there will be those who do well on less than many.

I actually openly advocate for high volume, but this is in bodybuilding and general gym muscle guys.
Do some EVO brothers overdo it?maybe, but I think the majority need more consistency and pumps for growth.

For powerlifters and strongmen like you @Mobster and @RoidRage69 , low volume with big weights is key.

 

[Pigsy]

I love my high volume lots of sets. And made great gains from it. My recovery Is very good
I did the other approach and did very little for Me. Got strong but gained very little muscle

This doesn't suit all. You need to find what you enjoy and gain from and stick with it.

 

[RoidRage69]

Quality over quantity.

 

[Mobster]

I agree with you 100% Mobster and I hope I'm not on the list with my 24 sets weekly for my back (my main focus point to bring up) .
They're probably to far away to failure and they try to compensate with volume what they can't do or won't do with intensity.

Weekly... no. All at once maybe lol. If we looked at the training routines of those with what might be viewed the best backs ever I suspect it'd be 3-4 exercises with a total of 20 sets tops. Ronnie, IIRC, split his into two. Dorian did less. Lee Haney might have had the highest overall volume.

I'll add here people can train how the hell they want. But if anyone does and is NOT making progress MAYBE it's cos you do too much

100% on what I've put in bold. It's the equivalent of gentle jogging (fine in and of itself) a 100 yards ten times and then wanting to be a world class sprinter

 

[Mobster]

Quality over quantity.

Equally true of me throwing weights around. IF I was able (not sure anyone is but just in case) to do SLOW reps and squeeze with the 200lbs imagine what my biceps would look like.

Heck, proof (such as it) is in the biggest pump I had in years - probably 2 years back. 5 x 10 bicep and 5 x 10 triceps on the gym bi/tri machine squeezing every rep and doing a 20 rep drop set to finish. 12 sets total. Right upper arm went from 19.5 cold to 21.25-inches (biggest ever)

 

[Mobster]

I love my high volume lots of sets. And made great gains from it. My recovery Is very good
I did the other approach and did very little for Me. Got strong but gained very little muscle

This doesn't suit all. You need to find what you enjoy and gain from and stick with it.

Absolutely. The issue is, as I suspect it might be for me too, is you're an outlier. Heck the late Monstro (RIP) was. 25 sets per bodypart, lightish weights (videos showed he was somewhat limited in kit - you and I have more) but had a properly muscular physqiue in his teens.

Key here is this: if you make progress keep doing what you're doing. Find what works. PEDs will help. BUT it's almost a given that doing more volume (if not the intensity) than THE most genetically blessed ever to walk upright will NOT suit the average gym goer and the majority of members here.

Try cutting back and working a set HARD. SQQUUEEZZEE mofos!

 

[Mobster]

I actually openly advocate for high volume, but this is in bodybuilding and general gym muscle guys.
Do some EVO brothers overdo it?maybe, but I think the majority need more consistency and pumps for growth.

For powerlifters and strongmen like you @Mobster and @RoidRage69 , low volume with big weights is key.

Consistency is No1 . We read again and again where X or Y (new member intros) will say for 'Z number of years'... adding 'on and off'. Meaning not the whole time. Small bits of progress from plugging away for years adds up 100%

High volume is relative. What's high to you? Is, as I suggested, a 177lb 6'1 member (2 months back) doing 22 sets for BICEPS only doing too much? I say yes. He specifically talked about a lack of progress and wanting to gain. I probably set less sets and eat!! lol

Big weights for me etc - yep. Again relative. By way of example:

Volume might be 60-70% of a 1RM for 3 x 12 reps. I'd argue too low a percentage and while you do far more volume it wont stimulate much of any growth. And that is the aim right?

Whereas I have,m on bench for example (when I've had the time), been able to do 90-95% of my 1RM for multiple sets. To the point where I could have done more sets (low, low reps) if I had wanted to but knew I'd have hindered progress.

Again - it doesn't matter what Eddie advocates or what my opinion is - if you wanna grow and aren't the question is why? And sometimes the why is you're doing too much (or your cycle is a mess, don't eat well etc).

 

[Mobster]

I actually openly advocate for high volume, but this is in bodybuilding and general gym muscle guys.
Do some EVO brothers overdo it?maybe, but I think the majority need more consistency and pumps for growth.

For powerlifters and strongmen like you @Mobster and @RoidRage69 , low volume with big weights is key.

I've covered this in a previous thread. While it IS a part (one example is stretching the membrane/fascia around a muscle to allow for growth) a pump in and of itself wont do much. It sure does feel good. Heck I get lat pumps lol

I suspect, as per another reply, is proper stimulus of the kind that WILL elicit growth of the kind those suggesting that they want ask for but who do too much all at once is 1) proper stimulus is hard 2) We've all done the 'theory' of I want a peak, long muscle head, biceps like X and Y so I'll do every damn bicep exercise in the gym and I'll grow. Train for a few months and you KNOW that's not true. DY makes a living occasionally coaching people and you see him mess people up with 3 sets. Like trying not to puke mess.

Other than outliers (the blessed) no one gets to get a 20-inch arm on a normal frame and stay lean by doing 40 sets etc. Heck, I know the names of those who did crazy volume and looked great. Look up the late Johnny Fuller - 10 sets of 32 reps. Serge Nubret and Sergio Oliva did (as Arnold also claimed to do) 4 hour workouts. All with great genetics. Mind you all strong too. Oliva competed in Olympic lifting and Arnold in Powerlifting (btih briefly)

 

[Mobster]

I actually openly advocate for high volume, but this is in bodybuilding and general gym muscle guys.
Do some EVO brothers overdo it?maybe, but I think the majority need more consistency and pumps for growth.

For powerlifters and strongmen like you @Mobster and @RoidRage69 , low volume with big weights is key.

I've covered this in a previous thread. While it IS a part (one example is stretching the membrane/fascia around a muscle to allow for growth) a pump in and of itself wont do much. It sure does feel good. Heck I get lat pumps lol

I suspect, as per another reply, is proper stimulus of the kind that WILL elicit growth of the kind those suggesting that they want ask for but who do too much all at once is 1) proper stimulus is hard 2) We've all done the 'theory' of I want a peak, long muscle head, biceps like X and Y so I'll do every damn bicep exercise in the gym and I'll grow. Train for a few months and you KNOW that's not true. DY makes a living occasionally coaching people and you see him mess people up with 3 sets. Like trying not to puke mess.

Other than outliers (the blessed) no one gets to get a 20-inch arm on a normal frame and stay lean by doing 40 sets etc. Heck, I know the names of those who did crazy volume and looked great. Look up the late Johnny Fuller - 10 sets of 32 reps. Serge Nubret and Sergio Oliva did (as Arnold also claimed to do) 4 hour workouts. All with great genetics. Mind you all strong too. Oliva competed in Olympic lifting and Arnold in Powerlifting (btih briefly)

 

[LevButlerov]

I'm fortunate, baring in mind my main focus is strength, that I have also over many years build a good degree of size and muscle. But as time goes on it might be argued that I'm a bit of an outlier. But while that MIGHT be true for me is it true for you? Probably not. So here's a question:

Why am I seeing a good few members doing what amounts to crazy amounts of volume and or far too many exercises? We can, in seconds, find top quality videos from, by way of example, multiple recent Mr Olympias. Be that CBum in classic or Hadi, Derek or Samson. All have arguably world class genetics. So why have we seen members doing (in one example) 6 exercises in one raining session for their delts. In another example (I even mentioned this on a podcast) was a younger member hitting 22 sets for biceps.

In those MrO videos we're not seeing Samson et al doing six exercises per bodypart in a single training session. Or 22 sets for a single relatively small bodypart. And again - these athletes have THE BEST genetics, are taking (again addressed in podcasts) high levels of PEDs and can literally live the lifestyle 24/7. Vs normal genetics and working.

Fixes
Do less. Like almost never going over 10 sets max. Split that over 3-4 exercises MAX per session.
Take the list of (as above) 6 exercises for delt and do HALF in one delt session and half in the next.
Instead of relying on the volume in and of itself learn to get more from less. Meaning, again by way of example, learning to squeeze real hard in the contracted position. Done properly you wont be able to do the old level of volume etc.

To be clear there will always be those who CAN do that level of what for others would be too much. Just as there will be those who do well on less than many.

Consistency is No1 . We read again and again where X or Y (new member intros) will say for 'Z number of years'... adding 'on and off'. Meaning not the whole time. Small bits of progress from plugging away for years adds up 100%

High volume is relative. What's high to you? Is, as I suggested, a 177lb 6'1 member (2 months back) doing 22 sets for BICEPS only doing too much? I say yes. He specifically talked about a lack of progress and wanting to gain. I probably set less sets and eat!! lol

Big weights for me etc - yep. Again relative. By way of example:

Volume might be 60-70% of a 1RM for 3 x 12 reps. I'd argue too low a percentage and while you do far more volume it wont stimulate much of any growth. And that is the aim right?

Whereas I have,m on bench for example (when I've had the time), been able to do 90-95% of my 1RM for multiple sets. To the point where I could have done more sets (low, low reps) if I had wanted to but knew I'd have hindered progress.

Again - it doesn't matter what Eddie advocates or what my opinion is - if you wanna grow and aren't the question is why? And sometimes the why is you're doing too much (or your cycle is a mess, don't eat well etc).

The most important part of this is consistency, my personal view.

I think both high and low reps work, depends on the individual. I look at great bodybuilders like @Pigsy and you can see high volume is what he needs to really work the muscle. Some smaller guys need bigger weights to grow. But in either case, being consistent is #1.

I love my high volume lots of sets. And made great gains from it. My recovery Is very good
I did the other approach and did very little for Me. Got strong but gained very little muscle

This doesn't suit all. You need to find what you enjoy and gain from and stick with it.

Pure and amazing SHRED!

 

[Mobster]

The most important part of this is consistency, my personal view.

I think both high and low reps work, depends on the individual. I look at great bodybuilders like @Pigsy and you can see high volume is what he needs to really work the muscle. Some smaller guys need bigger weights to grow. But in either case, being consistent is #1.


Pure and amazing SHRED!

It's worth adding that we all need to back off from time to time and or change things up. But I'll stick with those who have average genetics needing to do less volume. Pigsy is NOT a good example as I've explained. Great physique etc (obvs) but if you're 170 odd at 6' do NOT train like him. Deffo eat like him

 

[JasonPriest]

i see at my gyms i own people training really wrong in many situations.
it just seems like they have no plan but they enjoy theimselves.

 

[BodyMonster34]

bro hells no bro.

i say up the volume, train your balls off. you only live once. live like monstro and go all in on life. stop being a poosy, be an alpha!

 

[Quadsweep]

nice post mobster. some Guys will disagree with your premise, but I think that it's sort of true. people do overtrain a lot.

 

[Austin316]

I don't see any point of going more than 20 sets.

That is plenty per day.

 

[sambee38]

I think from a power lifters point of view, things are going to be different

It's a completely different style of training.

 

[BookerTNY]

If I was you, I would definitely Alternate the type of training that you do. Keep the body guessing.