Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
RESEARCHSARMSUGFREAKeudomestic
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsRESEARCHSARMSUGFREAKeudomestic

Veteran Thread Training to failure and other means of upping the intensity

Veteran Discussion

Mobster

Staff
Senior Moderator
VIP
EVO V.I.P.
EVO Logger
There are a number of what some term 'workout intensifiers'. Included might be 'drop sets', cheating, super sets and more. This first post is just gonna cover Training To Failure. Inspired by a recent new log. The member may have been, in my opinion, mistaken in using the term and I'l explain why before making suggestions for how to do it properly

In his log post he had a bunch of single sets (literally 1 set of each exercise). As a fan of the High Intensity from Mike Mentzer, Brief and Brutal training (a la S. McRobert) and or Dorian Yates the one set to failure thing is awesome. But, in this case, all the sets 'failed' at 12 reps (unlikely). There was 5 exercises working the same muscle and three muscles were worked. All 1 set to failure and apparently at 12 reps (so more chance of me winning 165m on the EuroMillions). Meaning they were NOT to failure. In fact going back to the three writers mentioned above NONE had you do more than 3 exercises.

Yesterday I did some silly weight (630kg) on the Power Squat Machine. That was HEAVY. I had 4 reps in mind. So I did 4 reps. Could I have done a 5th or 6th? Maybe. But if I fail with 630kg (1386lbs) and I miss racking the hooks back I'm kinda f**ked. It'd be injury city. And 4-6 reps is NOT gonna build muscle which is where a method like training to failure works well. True training to failure is HARD. Like, done properly, the only way you could do 4 more exercises is to take 10+ minutes between the last and only previous set and exercise and the next one and that again is NOT ideal to build maximum muscle.

Now, before we start, it isn't actually necessary to train to failure to grow. Nearly works. But then we get in to 'how close was you?' and so on. So here's a kinda workout (I've chosen chest). Our imaginary athlete wants to work mid to upper chest.

So
Incline Bench (mid position incline) with either barbells or dumbbells (if zero choice an incline position Iso Lateral Machine (Hammer style)
Incline (same position) dumbbell flyes (or maybe cable if you must)
Pec Flye Machine (ass forward on the seat)

You could do dips in lieu of the first exercise but you'd need to make sure the position was right and so on. But let's stick with these for now.

Warm up. Super light. Like the bar x 20 reps
Two more sets working up to the working weight. So, if you can rep 100kg/220lbs/225lbs/2 plates a side) I'd have you do 1 per side x 12, 1 and a half a side x 10-12 and then the top set. We're working to failure so there will NOT, today, be multiple sets or a medium to high volume approach.

Un-rack (or get a hand off) the 2 plates a side and go. Let's say if you DID do a volume approach you might do 2-3 sets x 8 or so reps. Today it's ONE set. So pour everything you have into it. There's a trick with the burn where it kicks in around 45-60 seconds in. So up the rep speed a LITTLE and you can do more reps in the same time (still controlled though right). It might be 10, 11, 12 or even 14. Failure is where it stops on your chest or goes half way up and you're shaking trying to lock it out. You MUST NOT BE ABLE TO COMPLETE ANOTHER REP without a rest. And that means the set is done.

Not inc the warm up you've done 2 warm up sets and 1 working set. Rest 90 seconds max. Stretch your pecs if possible. Sip some water.

Incline dumbbells. Cos you worked to failure you cannot use the usual weights. But your chest is nice and semi-f**ked so who cares. Let's take 60% of what you usually do and off we go. Really work the stretch (do not hyper extend but DO open the chest up) and SQUEEZE almost to the point of cramping. Make sure the bells move in the right arc of movement for the mid chest. Get a workout partner to guide the arms with fingertips only. ZERO assist. Failure and rep range will depend on how rested you are vs how painful it is and how you handle it. If you chose the right weight it's gonna be about 10 or so reps (plus or minus a couple). As soon as the form breaks down you MIGHT hold them above your chest and not squeeze it (so half rested) and then bang out a few more. But that's it

Walk to the prepared pec machine and sit right. Go. I'm gonna let you slack here and go light. Like HALF what you'd usually do but the only rest you had was walking over and moving your butt around. So circa 20 reps for both fatigue, contraction (squeezing it EVERY DAMN TIME) and a hella pump. Reps 17, 18 or 19 are PAIN. Some part of the Lizard brain is asking 'whose fkin idea was this?' and so on. You should be red faced (f**k what other gym users think), sweaty and the mid part of your chest should KNOW it's been worked, If you had a spot from a buddy it was fingertips again on the outside of the hand where it was gripping. You should be cursing several generations of his family line and your own.

When you're done IF you can try and flex the chest. It should now feel like the hardest idea you've ever had. Like you can barely do it for more than a few seconds if at all. Pain is now your middle name. Try and stretch (gently) the chest area if you can.

You did 5 sets total and 3 work sets. Time is less than 25 minutes. Go zip an intra and towel the sweat off. FORGET any more chest for today. If you've trained properly and to true failure and I was to suggest doing 1, 2 or 3 exercises MORE for chest you ought to feel like bitch slapping me... only you can't cos your chest would cramp up, you can barely lift an arm and I'm 5000 miles way lol

MAYBE if you've the time and a little energy is starting to come back it's time for the same approach but with back (the pump at the end will be godly).
 
Giant Sets
If you DO like volume and intensity you're gonna love these. Milos Sarcev used these as a part of his Insulin protocol. They're great at glycogen depletion if you wanna uses then for that. But they're also a f**ked up way to really put the hurt on a working muscle.

So a super set is two back to back exercises. A tri-set three. A giant set is 4-5. Let's pick triceps as an illustration. Two kinda compound type moves and 2 isolation: Dips (machine or bodyweight), Skull Crsuhers on an EZ bar, Kickbacks and Rope Pushdowns. Unlike the previous 'to failure' we're not doing that here. The hard part is making all the numbers (let's pick 12 reps on each movement) on all four and, worse yet, resting and doing it at least 2 more times

The real key is NO REST. Do move 1, right away move 2 and so on.

Done right and if you carb loaded before (and this is one of the few times I'm ok with a quick acting carb mix for your intra) your pump will either be the worst or best you ever had.

Key points: 4-5 exercises all for the same muscle, back to back, no rest. Three times. Hydrate and maybe some carbs (Milos's protocol used baby apple sauce)
 
There are a number of what some term 'workout intensifiers'. Included might be 'drop sets', cheating, super sets and more. This first post is just gonna cover Training To Failure. Inspired by a recent new log. The member may have been, in my opinion, mistaken in using the term and I'l explain why before making suggestions for how to do it properly

In his log post he had a bunch of single sets (literally 1 set of each exercise). As a fan of the High Intensity from Mike Mentzer, Brief and Brutal training (a la S. McRobert) and or Dorian Yates the one set to failure thing is awesome. But, in this case, all the sets 'failed' at 12 reps (unlikely). There was 5 exercises working the same muscle and three muscles were worked. All 1 set to failure and apparently at 12 reps (so more chance of me winning 165m on the EuroMillions). Meaning they were NOT to failure. In fact going back to the three writers mentioned above NONE had you do more than 3 exercises.

Yesterday I did some silly weight (630kg) on the Power Squat Machine. That was HEAVY. I had 4 reps in mind. So I did 4 reps. Could I have done a 5th or 6th? Maybe. But if I fail with 630kg (1386lbs) and I miss racking the hooks back I'm kinda f**ked. It'd be injury city. And 4-6 reps is NOT gonna build muscle which is where a method like training to failure works well. True training to failure is HARD. Like, done properly, the only way you could do 4 more exercises is to take 10+ minutes between the last and only previous set and exercise and the next one and that again is NOT ideal to build maximum muscle.

Now, before we start, it isn't actually necessary to train to failure to grow. Nearly works. But then we get in to 'how close was you?' and so on. So here's a kinda workout (I've chosen chest). Our imaginary athlete wants to work mid to upper chest.

So
Incline Bench (mid position incline) with either barbells or dumbbells (if zero choice an incline position Iso Lateral Machine (Hammer style)
Incline (same position) dumbbell flyes (or maybe cable if you must)
Pec Flye Machine (ass forward on the seat)

You could do dips in lieu of the first exercise but you'd need to make sure the position was right and so on. But let's stick with these for now.

Warm up. Super light. Like the bar x 20 reps
Two more sets working up to the working weight. So, if you can rep 100kg/220lbs/225lbs/2 plates a side) I'd have you do 1 per side x 12, 1 and a half a side x 10-12 and then the top set. We're working to failure so there will NOT, today, be multiple sets or a medium to high volume approach.

Un-rack (or get a hand off) the 2 plates a side and go. Let's say if you DID do a volume approach you might do 2-3 sets x 8 or so reps. Today it's ONE set. So pour everything you have into it. There's a trick with the burn where it kicks in around 45-60 seconds in. So up the rep speed a LITTLE and you can do more reps in the same time (still controlled though right). It might be 10, 11, 12 or even 14. Failure is where it stops on your chest or goes half way up and you're shaking trying to lock it out. You MUST NOT BE ABLE TO COMPLETE ANOTHER REP without a rest. And that means the set is done.

Not inc the warm up you've done 2 warm up sets and 1 working set. Rest 90 seconds max. Stretch your pecs if possible. Sip some water.

Incline dumbbells. Cos you worked to failure you cannot use the usual weights. But your chest is nice and semi-f**ked so who cares. Let's take 60% of what you usually do and off we go. Really work the stretch (do not hyper extend but DO open the chest up) and SQUEEZE almost to the point of cramping. Make sure the bells move in the right arc of movement for the mid chest. Get a workout partner to guide the arms with fingertips only. ZERO assist. Failure and rep range will depend on how rested you are vs how painful it is and how you handle it. If you chose the right weight it's gonna be about 10 or so reps (plus or minus a couple). As soon as the form breaks down you MIGHT hold them above your chest and not squeeze it (so half rested) and then bang out a few more. But that's it

Walk to the prepared pec machine and sit right. Go. I'm gonna let you slack here and go light. Like HALF what you'd usually do but the only rest you had was walking over and moving your butt around. So circa 20 reps for both fatigue, contraction (squeezing it EVERY DAMN TIME) and a hella pump. Reps 17, 18 or 19 are PAIN. Some part of the Lizard brain is asking 'whose fkin idea was this?' and so on. You should be red faced (f**k what other gym users think), sweaty and the mid part of your chest should KNOW it's been worked, If you had a spot from a buddy it was fingertips again on the outside of the hand where it was gripping. You should be cursing several generations of his family line and your own.

When you're done IF you can try and flex the chest. It should now feel like the hardest idea you've ever had. Like you can barely do it for more than a few seconds if at all. Pain is now your middle name. Try and stretch (gently) the chest area if you can.

You did 5 sets total and 3 work sets. Time is less than 25 minutes. Go zip an intra and towel the sweat off. FORGET any more chest for today. If you've trained properly and to true failure and I was to suggest doing 1, 2 or 3 exercises MORE for chest you ought to feel like bitch slapping me... only you can't cos your chest would cramp up, you can barely lift an arm and I'm 5000 miles way lol

MAYBE if you've the time and a little energy is starting to come back it's time for the same approach but with back (the pump at the end will be godly).
Giant Sets
If you DO like volume and intensity you're gonna love these. Milos Sarcev used these as a part of his Insulin protocol. They're great at glycogen depletion if you wanna uses then for that. But they're also a f**ked up way to really put the hurt on a working muscle.

So a super set is two back to back exercises. A tri-set three. A giant set is 4-5. Let's pick triceps as an illustration. Two kinda compound type moves and 2 isolation: Dips (machine or bodyweight), Skull Crsuhers on an EZ bar, Kickbacks and Rope Pushdowns. Unlike the previous 'to failure' we're not doing that here. The hard part is making all the numbers (let's pick 12 reps on each movement) on all four and, worse yet, resting and doing it at least 2 more times

The real key is NO REST. Do move 1, right away move 2 and so on.

Done right and if you carb loaded before (and this is one of the few times I'm ok with a quick acting carb mix for your intra) your pump will either be the worst or best you ever had.

Key points: 4-5 exercises all for the same muscle, back to back, no rest. Three times. Hydrate and maybe some carbs (Milos's protocol used baby apple sauce)
@Mobster i like your training philosophy I am in the belief that you are the real deal
always respect for your log and your training

i like Giant sets to really pump up the volume big time
 
@Mobster i like your training philosophy I am in the belief that you are the real deal
always respect for your log and your training

i like Giant sets to really pump up the volume big time
Thanks

When I read an article on what Milos's was doing I know that not all the athletes could do one
 
Drop Sets
In my more bodybuilding type training days I've done these. Oh my... a proper killer. I was doing a training program suggested by the late Paul Borreson. We was communicating at the time (indeed he advertized in my Muscle Mob magazine) and he sent me a box full of MRP's (quite foul though lol). It was called the '100 Day War'.

In the middle of the 100 days I had two weeks leave from work. I went to Ryan's Gym (owned by Ben Ryan who also helped my magazine) and it was just me and Ben behind the counter.

50 rep sets on the leg press (200kg max I think), something else I now forget, another also long gone from my memory and finally 25-50 rep sets on the leg extension followed. These ended with 2 drop sets.

So lets say I was doing 150lbs for 25-50 reps. Bad enough right? Take the pin and set it at 100lbs and do what you can, same again at 50lbs.

To say I was done... I literally couldn't pick my feet up and nearly tripped over a ruck in the carpet approaching the front desk. I took a bus back home even though ikt was only 3 stops and down hill. Had food and then crashed onto my sofa and feel asleep. Four hours later I was sore with DOMs.

You can do this with pretty much ANY exercise
 
Supersets
Even I do super sets and I way more of strength athlete than I am a bodybuilder. It's gotta be one of the top 3 intensifiers everyone does. But I'll throw it it there cos good info is always great.

When I do it I'm both slowing down the time between efforts on the bench. So, for example and as per my log, close grip bench press and mid-iso lateral rows. Working the mid to upper back is good for bench and so is the slight pump I'll get from even my low volume. I take iot slow for strength and power but you do not need to do this.

But for the members try the following:

1) Opposites, like my work above, so chest/back, biceps/triceps (swollen arms where we come) and so on.
2) Same muscle / different angles - like Lat Pulldowns and Iso Lever Low Rows (nice stretch on the 1st and contraction on the 2nd)

Volume, sets and reps can be kept exactly where you'd normally go but if you don't usually do this one drop the weight to 80% of what you'd normally use and try 15 rep sets instead. Time saved (keep the rest between one exercise and the other as short as possible - like just enough to change over) = mega pump.
 
nobody out there talks about training enough but it's really the most important thing when it comes to building a physique that you love

we are going to talk more about training on the podcast over the next couple of years because no one else is talking about it so stay tuned
 
nobody out there talks about training enough but it's really the most important thing when it comes to building a physique that you love

we are going to talk more about training on the podcast over the next couple of years because no one else is talking about it so stay tuned
Lots of podcasts ignore it and there's, as I've said to you, more info available than ever before in history. Yet we still see people who don't have a handle on the basics.

Stuff like consistency. Over time you'll improve. Good solid nutrition and so on. PEDs, which 'sells' gets pushed to the front. They ARE a part of what we do but far from being No1. Often when we offer info to members we assume they know about training. But it's often not the case. Hopefully these training snippets (see my tips thread too) will help.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ori
Nice job on this mobster a lot of good information
 
I think opposites are important just to keep things challenging
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ori
I like this thread mobster you should post more training tips
 
This thread/post was reviewed by our Medical Review board.
 
this is why logging is so important so we can see how people are training and help them
 
Back
Top Bottom