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Approved Log Why fasting helps you live longer, helps build more muscle. and my prolong fast LOG

stevesmi

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So I wanted to start up a thread on fasting that is based on science and not bro science and present some interesting information on studies that showed how effective fasting is. Obviously Rick and I have put up a lot of content on the podcast on it and of all the things we talk about the #1 questions we get is about steroid use of course but the 2nd is Fasting. this has been somthing that has been growing ever since Big Ramy and the other middle east bloc of bodybuilders who have been dominating the sport and will continue dominating have implemented fasting in their protocols. We all know they spend a month out of the year fasting but they also all do fasted workouts and fasted cardio.

I'm going to be posting info and studies and guiding you through the benefits and why it happens. this is going to be Fasting 101 class and not a thread of #Trustmebro. I'm also going to be doing a Mon-Friday fast during this thread

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Here is a really good study on why fasting helps you live longer

https://gero.usc.edu/2019/04/18/eat-less-live-longer-the-science-of-fasting-and-longevity/

the study was done on both rodents AND humans found:

fasting for two days protected healthy cells against the toxicity of chemotherapy, while the cancer cells stayed sensitive. These results opened the door to a new way of thinking about cancer treatments — one that shields healthy cells to allow for a more powerful assault on cancerous ones. They also led to the creation of the first fasting-mimicking diet, which Longo developed as a way to put patients with cancer, or mice in the lab, in a fasting state while still allowing them to eat.
 
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this next chart I am posting is very important.

it shows that protein is not a storage form of energy at all. it simply isn't how mother nature works! if it did then humans would not have 7B today, we would have gone exctinct a long time ago. same goes for in nature.

as you can see by the chart the oxidation rates of carbs plunges into a fast while the fat+ketones surges. but protein goes up slightly at the start then drops and flatlines. hmmmm.. flies in the face of the people who think you need to eat a meal right after a workout or ones who think you have to eat every 2 hours or you die.

more to come and link to study. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4915800/
 
the next benefit of fasting I wanted to post is about cancer

we all have been effected by cancer with family members and friends and we all know someone right now fighting cancer.

2 out of the past 3 years the Nobel Prize in medicine which is the most prestigious award in science was given to scientists who found how effective fasting was for fighting cancer.

https://www.cell.com/cancer-cell/fulltext/S1535-6108(16)30265-3
https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)00224-7

these 2 studies are interesting because they showed how effective fasting is for helping fight cancer. there are 3 main reasons.

1. autophagy where cancer cells get destroyed
2. autophagy where our old cells get replaced with new ones
3. the immune system boost

now you can try this at home. do a 5 day fast and get bloodwork. you will see on day 5 your white blood cell count drops in the bloodwork. now to someone who doesn't understand our body this might seem like a bad thing. but it isn't. this is the recyling of bad cells in the body happening and its right there in black and white. once you come out of the fast new troops are created, this is autophagy at work.

it is why people who fast report better skin, better eye sight, anti-aging and better overall health and way better immune boosting.

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2016/ohsumi/facts/ if you want to learn more about Yoshinori Ohsumi and his Nobel Prize findings you can check out that link.

his research showed fasting reversed Parkinson's, dementia, inflammatory diseases,etc. i will post more stuff about autophagy but it does not start generally for atleast 20 hours so you won't get anywhere just fasting half a day. you gotta tap more into it.
 
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Blue zones and fasting

Now one of the interesting things about fasting and blue zones which i have discussed many times is the correlations between them. blue zones are parts of the world where people for whatever reason live the longest vs. their surroundings. there are also dead zones where people live very short lives vs. their surroundings. now with dead zones alcoholism and drug use and crime are the culprits. this is why Native reservations out west and parts of Appalachia have this issue and it is very sad. who would have though abusing your body would result in a poor life expectancy?

on the flip side in blue zones people live the longest. the interesting thing is these people aren't wealthy, they don't have access to the best medicine in the world, and they don't follow the exact same diets. example the blue zones in the meditarrean follow a classic med-diet while people in Okinawa eat tons of sweet potatoes. now there is a correlation here in that they all eat a majority of their diet those pesky fruits and veggies that we don't get enough of but even with that some eat beans/peas and some eat more potatoes, etc. the main common denonimator is they all fast.

so these people live to 100 and they all fast. In Ikaria for example they fast 6 months out of the year! this could mean 1 week of fasting, 1 week of feeding, or 2 days and 2 days etc. it isn't 6 months straight but over the course of the year it adds up to 6 months. in their case they follow a strict religious style of circadiam fasting where they eat in a window. many of us refer to this as 'time restricted eating' or 'intermittent fasting'

you can read more about this here> https://www.bluezones.com/2021/06/circadian-fasting-boost-your-energy-mood-and-life/
 
Yeah, I hate bro-science too.

And for the record, I'm all for intermittent fasting. I think the big discourse is how long is a beneficial fast and when dos it become detrimental. And we can only speculate on that. Making one point here and there does make an entire argument correct. In this case, it isn't an exact science. And on that note, I'd like to mention one of the key figures in the theory of fasting. Many may not have heard of him. It's Doctor Clive McKay.

McCAy was one of the forerunners of the benefis of calorie restriction and fasting. He conducted numerous tests that showed animals on a restricted calorie diet lived up to TWICE AS LONG as those on a normal diet. His work received awards and honors and he becamse a respected spokesman at medical universities throughout the world. He went on to do the TV talk show circut and his books on fasting and calorie restriction became best sellers.

He dropped dead at age 69 -- 10 years short of an an "average " lifespan.

Now, Im not claiming he died BECAUSE of fasting...but it didn't save him either.

Of course as bodybuilders, we want to make the most of growing muscle. I think it's funny when guys want to know what drugs they should take to get mass and people that advcocate fasting are recommending drol and deca. My advice? More food!

Bottom line: there are certain benefits to occasional fasting but there is such as thing as "too much of a good thing." WHere that "too much" is depends on a host of factors. Personally, I think more than a 24 hour fast has dubious benefits and is extremely unpleasant and isn't worth it. Some people like it.

To each his own.
 
You made a beleiver out of me intermittent fasting was a game changer for me and yet we have educated dietitians saying it is bad.Facts don't lie.Keep up the great work it is much appreciated.
 
I like to use intermittent fasting as a tool, a way to keep total food in check on a weekly basis. If I have friends and family getting together on the weekend coming up, I will use intermittent fasting to restrict calories during the week because I know I’m going to over indulge on the weekend.
 
Two things brought up in Steves post that are very important, and a point I've been making for years, is the belief of doing cardio in the morning burns fat because you don't have available carbs in the morning on an empty stomach. That's nonsense. You still have available carbs up to 36 hours without eating. And you wouldn't burn fat anyway. You'll use protein for fuel.

Another good point is the need to eat immediately after a workout -- as if that's when your muscles are demanding nutrients. Nope. Your body is smarter than that. It'll use what it has.

Most people simply eat too much. But again, as bodybuilders, if you're looking for hyperthrophy, protein must be available. No protein = no growth.

I've done the usual debates. When, how much, what quality etc. A great many, esp those new to the sport, will think (outside of PEDs) that this is one of those great secrets. If you have typical genetics you'll have a typical response. These things make, at best, 1% difference. That difference, such as it is, is one you'll only see over time.

Now where Bodybuilders/strength athletes differ from most people studied is we do these things all the time in an ideal situation. Issues / points of interest including the responses you mention are that we, as a species, are incredibly adaptive. We're also back to the primitive response. We imagine we're 'evolved' when in fact how we adapt is barely different from a million years ago.

It does mean, as you say, that missing out on that post workout meal makes little to no difference. However, to do so again and again for months or years will. Let's throw in what many think of themselves as Hardgainers. True Hardgainers are rare. Just as rare, or almost as rare, as the genetic freaks. Ditto the 'I've tried everything to lose weight' fat fucks.

When you have those fretting over the 'window of opportunity' aka a post workout meal vs a hardgainer having two meals a day and vastly underestimating their intake. Most Hardgainers are gonna say they train hard and eat right - it's BS. Their mental style is to argue about the speed of a rep when they ought to be eating a fkin extra sandwich.

I suspect we argue about detail in the freaks when we're dealing with averages. I've been around many a 350-400lb strength athlete and yeah they'll eat after a workout. But whether it's just 'another meal' or considered post workout... meh. And there's an awful lot of weight lost in those fasted cardio workouts... but maybe as much in those with a little carb too. It's cumulative (those little things over time adding up).

It's the probably 'wanting it all asap' thing again. Whereas I found out a long time ago that small gains (or losses) over a LONG ass time add up very nicely.

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I like to use intermittent fasting as a tool, a way to keep total food in check on a weekly basis. If I have friends and family getting together on the weekend coming up, I will use intermittent fasting to restrict calories during the week because I know I’m going to over indulge on the weekend.

As you infer that's really a week long version of calories in vs calories out. Eat less Monday cos I'm gonna eat cake Tuesday. Whereas this debate is 'fasting is special' lol
 
Steve I completely agree with you on fasting. I use fasting to keep lean and gain muscle mass.

It works 1st hand experience, MORE muscles and healthier and less bodyfat.

Can't argue with results.
 
some people are stuck in the 80's still and don't get the concept of fasting.

thanks for posting all these studies, cannot wait to see what else gets posted in the future in this thread. it should be a sticky

True. And some people are stuck with bro science, where they get a little information -- maybe read a study and accept the findings and then interpret it the way they want, and then they think they're well informed. That's why I like to provide reasoning behind whatever I say. But sadly, some people refuse to open their mind, or simply are unable to comprehend the data.

Fasting isn't an "all or nothing" concept. There's a way of doing it where it's beneficial and way of doing it where it's detremental. But I realize that it's easier for people to just pick a side. Like politics. Same thing. And that's okay.
 
Fasting allows to rest digestive organs, keep you lean and add muscle mass
 
some people are stuck in the 80's still and don't get the concept of fasting.

thanks for posting all these studies, cannot wait to see what else gets posted in the future in this thread. it should be a sticky

Some people fasted way back when wore bear skins.

And opinions change, studies differ.... who knew
 
the next study i wanted to have you take a look at will really piss off the meatheads. it shows that fasting will burn fat and also protect muscle tissue. in this study people (not rodents and not mice) fasted for 70 days. keep in mind this was NOT obese people who just got starved into caloric deficits, these are average joes who worked out and were in decent shape and included seasoned athletes who live for working out like us. it wasn't a study with just 8 fat people who starved themselves and lost weight. so that flies in the face of the theory that only fat people can lose fat with fasting. it took me some time to find this study cause it was buried on the internet (of course it pisses off supplement companies, food industry, and every meathead out there who wants to sell their bullshit $300 diet plans) but i will continue posting it over and over and over again to get it more looks.



to translate over the course of 70 days subjects lost an average of 4cm off their waist, that is a lot but it isn't like they turned into famined skinny people who look like they have a muscle wasting disease (sorry meatheads)

they overall lost an average of 6kg of fat mass and their fat free mass was flat. so did they GAIN muscle? no they didn't. but they also did NOT lose it. so they lost a boatload of fat and their muscle mass stayed the same. please tell me any time of PED free diet that can achieve this? it doesn't exist. you eat in a deficit you will lose both muscle and fat. you follow IIFYM you end up spinning your wheels. etc. so fasting is the absolute best way to recomp.

*** also i have to note that i read through the study and nothing else changed here, they ate the same foods, they had the same workout routines (or in some cases didn't workout if that is their lifestyle), if they drank soda, coffee, water etc. that didn't change. all that changes was they implemented fasting. so imagine someone who ate and trained optimally. it is something Rick brings up a lot since he does like to indulge in fast food, coffee, and sugars on occasion and still stays skinny year round thanks to his fasting

so how would you reading this benefit from this as someone who has a top notch training and diet already? you can do what we all love doing!! you could get even better results by following this type of fasting and add in some PED's to it.

now hypothetically let's say you wanted to take a break from PED's you could also do this for general health reasons and then once you complete the fast then hop on a cycle in top shape and really shred up! there are different ways to do it

let's say you wanted to recomp the shit out of your body. you would fast on day 1, feed on day 2, fast on day 3, etc. for 30 days, 60 days, etc. what i would do is take GW and do a light dose of test, EQ/primo, and var (optional). those 4 together. keep your workouts at 70% on feeding days and on fasting days do some light cardio.

you would transform yourself into an absolute freak doing that. you wouldn't blow up huge, but you would get absolutely ripped to shreds and have the best body of your life. and most importantly your
 
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now a lot of people cannot figure out why you don't lose muscle when you fast. this chart below tells us why and it has to do with how our bodies have evolved over the past 2M years. it is the same reasons humans have survived droughts, floods, volcanos, viruses, disease, climate changes, hurricanes, tornadoes, famine, etc. in fact we haven't just survived everything the planet has thrown at us, we have thrived and there are more humans today then ever. i guarantee it wasn't because we couldn't go a day without food lol

this chart below shows what happens during a fast. notice how GH spikes up hard and how fat loss keeps rising in a linear fashion. we know, and again i will piss off the meatheads, that insulin and hgh run inverse to each other. so when you eat gh drops, and when we fast gh rises. but this chart explains why we hold onto muscle during a fast and burn fat like crazy.



besides the whole fat/muscle discussion (which isn't even the best benefits of fasting) look at autophagy/cell benefits. they rise after a couple days and stay elevated so the longer you stay fasted the more benefits of that you will get. that nagging injury that you can't shake? fasting will help. immune system is lagging? fasting will help. afraid of cancer? fasting will help. gut issues? fasting will help.. i've known countless people with crohns who have been able to control it or even cure it thanks to fasting. (i will find the study on this as well which is also buried) eye sight and mental changes? fasting will help. i've seen so many people say their eye sight was improved after a long fast. so many people have had amazing benefits to fasting. in the wild when an animal is sick or hurt they will burrow into a spot and fast for days to heal themselves, now you know why this happens, its their instinct! but humans are too smart for our own goods

the next lesson in the next day or two will be about insulin sensitivity and diabetes. we all have relatives with these issues, in fact 33% of americans are diabetic or pre diabetic. and that number continues to rise. so it effects all of us. stay tuned...........
 
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Hypothetically, let's say you wanted to take a break from PED's you could also do this for general health reasons and then once you complete the fast then hop on a cycle in top shape and really shred up! there are different ways to do it

let's say you wanted to recomp the shit out of your body. you would fast on day 1, feed on day 2, fast on day 3, etc. for 30 days, 60 days, etc. what i would do is take GW and do a light dose of test, EQ/primo, and var (optional). those 4 together. keep your workouts at 70% on feeding days and on fasting days do some light cardio.

...........................................................

I agree with this. It proves my point. What you're essentially saying is that people who alternated daily eating and daily fasting (24 hours) lost weight. Well...YEAH. By alternating days you use the nutrients from the day before, and of course, you're dramatically cutting calories. And of course, people who work out will tend to hold on to more muscle. And of course, using some PED would help preserve muscle. This is almost exactly what I propose, though I said to do a 14 hour fast -- 10pm to 12pm twice a week. The results form that may be a bit slower in regard to weight loss (which is actually better) but it's also less brutal on the mind and body. Again -- to each his own. Whatever works.
 
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