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What's up everyone. So this is a little wierd for me. First, to bring you all up to speed. I finished a Diesel/TrenTFO cycle about 4 weeks ago. First time with TrenTFO, second time with Diesel. Unfortunately, the PCT I ran was garbage. I went to go grab some Formadrol which I have used in the past and liked but I found it was banned, so the salesman talked me into trying ISA-TEST (Garbage). I took it for 3 weeks and then went back to the store, complained and got some protein instead. Looking back, I wish I would have went with the Forged PCT, which is what I am going to use next time. However, I have almost no sex-drive at all now. I used to be ready to go pretty much all the time, and now I really don't care about sex at all. This is not normal for me, and I was wondering if this is a result of the weak PCT, or if that is just what Tren does. Also, now that it's been four weeks, any ideas on what I should do to get back on track? Thanks,
Sustain alpha or there new liquid version of sustain would be perfect for you man. I had a buddy who ran a test/deca cycle and stopped half way through with no pct. He said he felt like crap and his balls were shrunk blahblahblah etc. I told him he's stupid and he needs to buy sustain alpha. He ran it for a couple days and said he noticed his results pretty much instantly. If you have the money for it just buy the whole pct stack by primordial performance its got everything you need. Also with that weak pct did you notice any prolactin build up or gyno of any kind? If so you might wanna ask someone who knows about AI's. Needto, future, or dabuffguy would be 3 wise people to ask.
P.S. I'm currently running forged pct and sustain alpha as pct for my beastdrol only cycle I'm still gaining and my testes are back to normal also
P.S. I'm currently running forged pct and sustain alpha as pct for my beastdrol only cycle I'm still gaining and my testes are back to normal also
Thanks. My diet is not perfect by any means, but it has remained constant for quite a while, and I didn't have any trouble bouncing back after my first round with diesel. For some reason the Diesel/Tren combo has got me down for the count. I am thinking it's a combo of the supps and weak PCT. Thanks for the advice on the DHEA. I never heard of it, but I just read about it, and I will go get some tomorrow. Thanks, again...
From what I've read DHEA is absorbed best through topicals and a perfect product for that would be Dermacrine in needto's store(Also by primordial performance.) I'm just a bit worried that since your in pct your testes are suppressed and running a full 4-5 pumps a day could suppress you even more and make a slower recovery.
Yeah. It's weird. I am killing it in the gym. In fact, I have been setting some personal bests for myself lately. Part of that is that I got a new workout partner that's twice my size and I am trying to keep up 
. It's just that when I am home I have no desire to get busy. The one exception is when I hit up some Patron, but I try not to do that much. I will take all of your advice and do some research. I am also definetly gonna make sure I have some strong PCT for my next run. Thanks, all...
. It's just that when I am home I have no desire to get busy. The one exception is when I hit up some Patron, but I try not to do that much. I will take all of your advice and do some research. I am also definetly gonna make sure I have some strong PCT for my next run. Thanks, all...Yup, I think I've read its even banned in a few natural organizations. that's why it stuck out when i saw it.
I'm guessing he didn't order it because I'm sure he would have tried it if he had. The forged sustain combo worked pretty well for me. Drive is still a little below normal but it usually takes me about 6 weeks to fully come back. I'm ordering Dermacrine today so we'll see how that works out.
And Future...cut out that at OUR AGE stuff will ya! Making me feel old!
And Future...cut out that at OUR AGE stuff will ya! Making me feel old!
russianstar
EVO V.I.P
OK lets get this in perspective, Your shutdown now and have been for a while, thats why you always need a SERM like nolva or clomid incase of this, plus good support supps, sustain is one of the best.
1. you need to get clomid here, after what youve been taking it will work best, and this is the plan below.
Week 1. 100mg clomid, and 5 days sustain alpha then 2 days off
Week 2. the same
Week 3 50mg clomid and 5 days on 2 off sustain alpha, get some forged pct and taper that off starting at 2 caps a day the first week, 3 the second , 2 the third, and 1 the fourth.
This will get your test levels back, prolonged shutdown can lead to hrt in the future, get moving bro, get your serm, and get sorted, if you need any help p.m me.
The A.I in forged pct is the reasoning for the tapering to allow estrogen to balance out as you start producing your own test, please do not listen to people who just throw advice around, this is serious stuff.
In an article i wrote last year for the university i was lecturing in we disscussed an incident just like this, and the guy didnt take adequate action quickly enough, he listened to friends who ill advised him.
As for adding DHEA well the suggested dose by future in your situation isnt going to cut it, most will be converted to estrogen, it doesnt stimulate the testes. Here is a study.
So The cytokines measured were interleukin (IL)-2, IL-4, IL-10, IL-1beta, and interferon (IFN)-gamma. Serum free testosterone, androstenedione, estradiol, dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were also measured. The supplement significantly increased serum levels of androstenedione, free testosterone, estradiol and DHT during week 1 to week 4. Supplement intake did not affect LPS or ConA proliferation and had minimal effect on PHA-induced proliferation. LPS-induced production of IL-1beta, and PHA-induced IL-2, IL-4, IL-10, or IFN-gamma production was not altered by the supplement. The addition of the same supplement. These findings suggest that, although chronic intake of a complex dietary supplement containing DHEA, androstenedione and herbal extracts increases serum androgen levels, it has minimal effect on immune function in middle-aged men.
It increases test in those who are not shutdown, this test was carried out on a fairly normal individual, plus the dose was higher.
You can add DHEA during the second work of your pct i outlined above, this will act as a river that can be drawn on to balance up your hormones.
Run 50mg every day from week 2, but not longet than 3 weeks as this can cause thyroid problems and possible other side effects.
I didn't order the whole kit. I ordered the superstack, and just figured I would pick up some PCT later. You know how that goes... I'll get it next week... I'll get it tomorrow. Two days after I finished my cycle, I went and tried to find some out in town. Just bad planning. I have a new thread out that I am hoping Needto will see or one of the other mods that know about these supps. I am just wondering what I need to get to prevent this from happening again when I run Beastdrol/Tren TFO in a couple months. Later...
russianstar
EVO V.I.P
yOU MUST BE JOKING BRO.... you run this NOW dont even think about another cycle, and remember time on +pct = time off, you need to get your test production up to speed asap my friend, then think about a cycle in the future.
russianstar
EVO V.I.P
Being shutdown on epi is not the same as whats happened here, really vitrix wont do jack all in this situation... guys we need to get up to speed on proper pct, i posted a faq.
imported_Skyling35
New member
To keep it from happening again just follow proper Pct like what you read in russians PCT FAQ and everything should be cake.
Yeah, I have definitely realized that. Im trying to catch up as fast as I can.
I wasn't joking. Someone told me that if I didn't do anything for PCT it would take about twice as long for my system to get back to norm. I just figured it's already been 4 weeks off. So I was asking if my system would get back to it's norm in another 4 weeks with nothing, or if I don't take this is it never gonna come back. Not sure if I made sense, but I think I did. Thanks, again. Oh, also I was thinking about running the beast/tren in December, but I will hold off until at least January now. Thanks again, everyone. Later...
Thanks. What's weird is I am having some amazing workouts and keep going up in the weight I'm using. I am also thinking maybe I didn't take enough time off between my last cycle, which was a monster, before I ran the diesel/Tren. I was initally thinking of running the beast/tren like mid to late November, I am gonna get myself back feeling right first. So maybe after the holidays. Then I'll kill it. Thanks again. Everyone on this site is outstanding.
russianstar
EVO V.I.P
If your workouts are getting better your not shutdown fact.
If you dont run pct sometimes your body recovers....sometimes it doesnt, i prefer not to gamble on things like that.
As for the advice on blood tests late morning not first thing is much more accurate.
If you dont run pct sometimes your body recovers....sometimes it doesnt, i prefer not to gamble on things like that.
As for the advice on blood tests late morning not first thing is much more accurate.
N
Needtogetaas
Guest
what he said bro ^^^ we have both products in out store and working on getting the new sustain too.
That's what has me baffeled. My lifts keep increasing each week, I thought maybe this was because I got a new workout partner and he is pushing the hell out of me. But maybe I have recovered somewhat. I am gonna run the Forged PCT and sustain alpha for PCT after my Beast/Tren run, which won't be till after the holidays. Thanks, everyone. Later...
i didn't read through this whole thread..only your first part and instantly knew what I would recommend:
A CLOMID RESTART
I like nolva better, but being that you took tren and diesel which has a max lmg clone in it, you are at a risk of having prolactin sides. Jump on the clomid, it is relatively inexpensive. I'm sure you could probably add in some sustain for some help, but that isn't going to suffice on its own. If you want to know the effects a restart on the hpta can have, check the thread "no SERMs needed with Forged PCT and Sustain Alpha?" and you'll see my results with a nolva restart. Best of luck to you my friend
A CLOMID RESTART
I like nolva better, but being that you took tren and diesel which has a max lmg clone in it, you are at a risk of having prolactin sides. Jump on the clomid, it is relatively inexpensive. I'm sure you could probably add in some sustain for some help, but that isn't going to suffice on its own. If you want to know the effects a restart on the hpta can have, check the thread "no SERMs needed with Forged PCT and Sustain Alpha?" and you'll see my results with a nolva restart. Best of luck to you my friend
sounds like you might have recovered a little bit since your lifts are increasing, but i would still run the others to insure getting to 100%
I'm just finishing up a 4-5 week pct ( I used a combo of serum and OTC, OTC might have been enough but I had the nolva so I used it), i had done a 5 week tren, diesel and beast cyc. I was shut the frog down...
week 1 - 5on/1off sustain, forged pct and x2 a day unleashed
week 2 - 20mg nova, 5on/1off sustain, forged pct and x2 a day unleashed
week 3 - 10 mg nolva, 5on/1off sustain, forged pct and x1 a day unleashed
week 4 - 5mg nova, 5on/1off sustain, forged pct and x1 a day unleashed
week 5 - 2.5mg nolva (for 1/2 the week), 5on/1off sustain (full week) and x1 a day unleashed (1/2 week)
week 1 and 2 and part of week 3 I had no drive at all (prob shut down still week 1 and the nolva week 2-3)
I just finished week 3 (started week 4 today) and balls are full, cock works awesome (good thing because my wife is always humpy lol) and energy/feeling/gym/cofidence is GREAT.
I'll do a free test, test for a snap shot at the end of week 5 (after I'm off everything). Insurance only pays for one full blood workup a year unless something is wrong so if I'm feeling good and the saliva test is good I won't do one.
No gyno problems with the cyc, thank god.
week 1 - 5on/1off sustain, forged pct and x2 a day unleashed
week 2 - 20mg nova, 5on/1off sustain, forged pct and x2 a day unleashed
week 3 - 10 mg nolva, 5on/1off sustain, forged pct and x1 a day unleashed
week 4 - 5mg nova, 5on/1off sustain, forged pct and x1 a day unleashed
week 5 - 2.5mg nolva (for 1/2 the week), 5on/1off sustain (full week) and x1 a day unleashed (1/2 week)
week 1 and 2 and part of week 3 I had no drive at all (prob shut down still week 1 and the nolva week 2-3)
I just finished week 3 (started week 4 today) and balls are full, cock works awesome (good thing because my wife is always humpy lol) and energy/feeling/gym/cofidence is GREAT.
I'll do a free test, test for a snap shot at the end of week 5 (after I'm off everything). Insurance only pays for one full blood workup a year unless something is wrong so if I'm feeling good and the saliva test is good I won't do one.
No gyno problems with the cyc, thank god.
I think I am recovering slowly on my own and I am gonna wait quite a while before I start up the Beast/Tren run. I have taken Unleashed before and liked it. Does anyone think Forged PCT and Unleashed together would be a good combo? As far as nolva, I thought you only needed nolva if you started getting gyno. At least that's what I was always told to have it on standby for. Also, I was doing some thinking about starting to take creatine during PCT. I don't ever take it, but I've read in a few places that taking it during PCT can help preserve gains. Any thoughts on that? Thanks.
russianstar
EVO V.I.P
Yes creatine can help... if you have questions on pct read the FAQ i posted to answer how nolva helps not just with gyno...its there to read bro.
russianstar
EVO V.I.P
Sustain alpha needs 2 days off bro for maxim results, and the nolva dose was to low, 40mg is the minimum to run and should be used week one, pct is about getting back to normal as fast as you can.
russianstar
EVO V.I.P
Yeah that looks good bro.
this thread and IMHOs posts have kept me from starting my beast/katana cycle. i was under the impression that gyno wouldnt be an issue, and libido and test levels should be fine with the use of forged pct and sustain. no clomid, no nolva, no gyno, etc. i know everyone is different but in general this was the consensus. what gives?
Results and sides are different for everyone. That is the case with any supplement or drug for that matter. Many have no issues whatsoever, some have some sides. The best thing to do is to have something on hand just in case. Better safe...
I hope that's not true, bro. I am the one that started this post. I didn't have any gyno issues. The issue I had is that I didn't have any PCT on hand and when I went to go grab some on hand, they had all been banned out in town. From my reading and all the posts on here, I have learned that you should be good to go with Forged and Sustain on hand. That's what I am gonna run when I do my beast/Tren cycle after I recover. Good luck, bro, and I hope that clears it up for you.
If you'd like to try to prevent shutdown as much as possible if you notice some shrinkage you can start rubbing sustain on ur testes mid cycle. I did it and noticed a huge difference but it might not work for everyone depending on how harsh the cycle or how long the cycle is.
