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Honestly I don't know... but here's some pictures of how large the inside is.

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Pvdf probly best. Why chance the need to redo it.

KRAZIEONE

Very true. I can give it a shot with PTFE to see how it does and let you all know if it handles it perfectly or not. I'll just buy PVDF before I start messing with it.
 
Hmmm must have wrong image of 8L b/c ones I've used have tray's not bucket style...ok NVM my bad.
 
Hmmm must have wrong image of 8L b/c ones I've used have tray's not bucket style...ok NVM my bad.

I feel those are very unnecessary tbh. I know the ones you're talking about. Dentists use them. They're like boxes right? I just didn't see the point in spending so much on one that is much smaller than this one (18L, not 8L btw). They get to the same pressure and temperature. So I just decided this one. While it was still fairly costly, it wasn't $4000 lol.
 
I feel those are very unnecessary tbh. I know the ones you're talking about. Dentists use them. They're like boxes right? I just didn't see the point in spending so much on one that is much smaller than this one (18L, not 8L btw). They get to the same pressure and temperature. So I just decided this one. While it was still fairly costly, it wasn't $4000 lol.

HAHA typo I meant 18L...so does your's basically look like a "pressure cooker"? Ok let me see a pic...
 
Really no reason to use a clave for the bottles. Unless u fill and then cap. I use sealed bottles w a flow hood and just transfer.

KRAZIEONE
 
HAHA typo I meant 18L...so does your's basically look like a "pressure cooker"? Ok let me see a pic...
Yeah it looks a bit like a pressure cooker. I've read a lot of people talking about how pressure cookers are basically the same as autoclaves... Not at all. To be effective it has to reach a specific pressure and heat, which only autoclaves can reach -- not regular pressure cookers. So if anyone reading this thread wants to be cheap, just know that won't be the same. My autoclave is all stainless steel and thick as hell. It weighs MUCH more than any pressure cooker I've seen (I believe the shipping weight was about 70 pounds... but its been a while and I can't remember perfectly, so that may be off). Obviously this is what allows it to function as it should.

Here are the pics bro, I re-attached the 2 I posted earlier and some new ones so you can see the outside more.



Really no reason to use a clave for the bottles. Unless u fill and then cap. I use sealed bottles w a flow hood and just transfer.

KRAZIEONE
I personally feel its necessary to sterilize anything as best as possible before using it, just to be safe. I used to distill and I avoided many issues I saw many others experience by always having my equipment as sterile as possible. Some of the small bacteria that can grow/remain between uses is pretty nasty... I didn't want to risk it messing with my alcohol, and I certainly wouldn't want to risk injecting any bacteria/spores/viruses I could have prevented.

But since you're using sealed bottles you don't have those issues. I'm going the unsealed route and crimping the tops myself, so yeah a little different.

It may be worth it for some of you to look into UV-C lights for sterilization. They may not be PERFECT (it can be a hassle if you're using it over large surfaces), but it should definitely help. Just don't use them over plastic as it will degrade such materials from what I remember.
 

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Ahhhh, ok yes that's not what I originally invisioned. Yes that works fine and very inexpensive. ..less than 300.
 
Ahhhh, ok yes that's not what I originally invisioned. Yes that works fine and very inexpensive. ..less than 300.

Yeah depending on the quality. The ones I see that are cheaper are Chinese... I don't trust those ones. The one I got was valued over $1000 (though I paid less). You get what you pay for... I wouldn't pay bottom dollar for something that could explode in your house lol.

Do you use an autoclave?
 
hahaha....bro I've never brewed AAS. I've worked in labs and with chemicals all my life. I just know autoclaves and read this to brew one day.

Oh shit my bad bro lol. I thought you were a homebrewer. What do you generally do in labs (if that's not too personal)? I've actually been looking for someone to discuss a few theories with... Do you know much about filtration? Because I've been planning on doing some tests to see how much of a difference certain adjustments would make to the end product.
 
Hey bros that homebrew, I have something to discuss with you all. I just posted some of this in another thread and I wanted to hear what you all think through all of your experience.

I feel the substance (Test, Primo, EQ, Tren, etc) itself doesn't have much to do with PIP at all -- UNLESS the quality horrible. In which case, you may end up dealing with unreacted esters in the product, which can make it PAINFUL. I personally believe this is one of the reasons why some of the same substances from different sources hurt more than others, even if they were made the exact same way.

I feel the main cause of pain (past 24 hours or so) is due to crystallization. As in the concentration is too high for the carrier oil. This obviously depends on the temperature which the substance dissolves. Long esters generally require lower temperatures than short esters (Test Cyp being the exclusion). So if the substance crashes and your body temperature isn't close to the required temperature to keep the substance a liquid, it will crystallize -- resulting in the horrible pain many of us have experienced with short esters. I also feel the carrier oil (and other ingredients, like the solvents/cosolvents) is a factor in this -- if the carrier oil can better hold the substance for longer periods, then it won't be such an issue. But if you use an extremely thin carrier oil for the ability to use 27g needles or something, and the body uses it faster than it takes to utilize the substance its holding, then it will leave the hormone outside of the oil (obviously) in which it could crystallize. This is my reason behind utilizing MCT's, Safflower, and CSO.

As mentioned above, I also feel the carrier oil can cause issues. Pharma grade oils are generally superior to store bought oils. Due to the difference in quality (viscosity, contaminants, etc), it could result in pain (the oil not staying mixed with the actual hormone -- resulting in the hormone crashing out of the carrier oil, etc). I've had many people tell me they use store bought oil (generally GSO) and say it turns out fine. So I'm not saying it is ALWAYS an issue, rather it could potentially be. I feel when people select a carrier oil, they should decide on more factors than just how easily it flows through smaller needles!

I also feel there are other very important factors when deciding which ingredients you are going to use (and what quantities of them) beyond just how well it will flow from the needle when injecting! I feel some end solutions are far too acidic (from the wrong mixture/quantity of ingredients -- especially solvents/cosolvents) which makes the pH lower than 4. From what I understand, its best for the finished product to be between 4 and 7 pH. Anything lower than that will cause quite a bit of pain from muscle tissue irritation.

Then obviously you have some of the solutions where the UGL was too cheap to use BB and compensated by using high quantites of BA for the hormones to actually dissolve and remain so. Which then causes pain when injecting (I've heard some people say it needs to be around 10% or higher for it to be REALLY painful like you sometimes hear about, though I can't comment on where the point is where it becomes painful personally).

I've been spending a lot of time doing this as you can tell. I feel this is a mix of science and art lol. What do you all think?

Maybe some of this will help a few people out if they're trying to work out certain issues or are planning on getting started. But I'd really love to hear everyone's opinions on this.
 
I appreciate your thought process as far as carrier oils being absorbed too quickly once injected and leaving the hormone behind causing pip I don't believe that to be the case you can use the exact same carrier oil when brewing long and short esters and as long as you don't try reaching stupid concentrations the short esters will cause more pip than the long esters at least with test I haven't had any pain from tren ace but according to your theory the thin oil is absorbed more quickly than the hormone with that train of thought if you have 100mg test prop in safflower (not the thinnest option) the oil would be hanging around longer than the hormone causing less pip? This is not the case


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Also it is possible to brew painless short esters just ask krazie or myself but most guys get pip from prop


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I appreciate your thought process as far as carrier oils being absorbed too quickly once injected and leaving the hormone behind causing pip I don't believe that to be the case you can use the exact same carrier oil when brewing long and short esters and as long as you don't try reaching stupid concentrations the short esters will cause more pip than the long esters at least with test I haven't had any pain from tren ace but according to your theory the thin oil is absorbed more quickly than the hormone with that train of thought if you have 100mg test prop in safflower (not the thinnest option) the oil would be hanging around longer than the hormone causing less pip? This is not the case


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I get what you're saying. And I didn't mean a different carrier oil was required for each different ester or anything of that nature. I was more addressing how higher concentrations would require an oil that isn't so thin, as compared to oils that could be used at "normal" concentrations. I get what you're saying though, I was definitely unclear in that regard.

To be more clear, from what I have read and researched, I believe there is a certain amount of oil utilized per amount of hormone you are utilizing -- which depends on the viscosity. Thinner oils can't hold higher concentrations so well, whereas thicker oils can (to an extent obviously). For example, lets say 100MG Tren Ace would use 1ML of CSO. So if someone did a 200MG/ML CSO solution, then that 1ML of CSO would be consumed with the first 100ML, leaving the other 100ML to crystallize without being suspended in the CSO anymore. Get what I'm saying? Maybe I'm horribly wrong, but from what I've been researching and hearing from a lot of people that are pretty experienced, that seems to be the case. But perhaps I'm terribly mistaken and misunderstood it.

Also it is possible to brew painless short esters just ask krazie or myself but most guys get pip from prop


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Absolutely bro.

What do you think of the other factors though? Like the pH, etc?
 
Pip also come from contaminated gear. Or from improper I jetting technique. We all forget we are injecting a pocket of oil no matter how thin or thick the solution its still a pocked of oil in the muscle if u inject to fast u will create pip. Also yes trying to high of concentration gear will create pip. I do disagree about too high of ba being a factor. Yes it can give a false sense of stability of your mix but there is literally no pain from ba.

KRAZIEONE
 
For instance also. I just brewed a test prop tne blend. Totally pip free. 100mg prop 50mg tne per ml. And it is strong acting but felt literally nothing when injected. Its technique and quality. Plain and simple

KRAZIEONE
 
Pip also come from contaminated gear. Or from improper I jetting technique. We all forget we are injecting a pocket of oil no matter how thin or thick the solution its still a pocked of oil in the muscle if u inject to fast u will create pip. Also yes trying to high of concentration gear will create pip. I do disagree about too high of ba being a factor. Yes it can give a false sense of stability of your mix but there is literally no pain from ba.

KRAZIEONE

Alright, William Llewellyn was one of the first people I heard from regarding BA potentially causing pain. And I've heard high BA gear (like from Mexico apparently?) can hurt like hell too. But alright that's good to know. Like I said, I had some people say it had to be 10% or higher to cause a problem, but if it doesn't cause pain then that's good to know. Though either way, it wouldn't be an issue because I wouldn't ever get close to 10%. 2% is fine with me lol. I would just think how BA causes cell necrosis due to what it is would cause pain...

Yes, contaminated gear can absolutely be an issue. Generally adequate filtration should handle that (though there are small things that can get through, like dyes, pesticides, heavy metals, etc). Would you consider the unreacted esters contaminated gear? Since that generally means poorly made? I suppose it could have that issue without being contaminated, but I would think if its made that poorly, chances are its not exactly sterile.

I posted about the injecting technique just a second ago in a thread actually lol. I said how you need to inject very slowly, because fast injections can cause damage to the surrounding muscle tissue (I once injected as fast as I could with my prescribed [true pharma] Test C and it hurt like fuck). Though I was more talking about factors that go into the actual production of the homebrew, rather than the protocol following the creation.

For instance also. I just brewed a test prop tne blend. Totally pip free. 100mg prop 50mg tne per ml. And it is strong acting but felt literally nothing when injected. Its technique and quality. Plain and simple

KRAZIEONE

Would you mind telling me the ingredients to such a delicious and painless blend? I hear TNE has always been a fucking nightmare when it comes to PIP. I've never made TNE nor used it. So I'm very interested in hearing what you did to make it this way. Though I completely understand if its a secret lol.
 
Tne and test suspension are two diff compounds tne is in oil. Suspension is in distilled water.

Mine I did 5% ba 15% bb and distilled water. Yes the ba was high. I usually do 3%. It was more experimental. And worked out nicely. Would u like a sample to see. LOL.

KRAZIEONE
 
Tne and test suspension are two diff compounds tne is in oil. Suspension is in distilled water.

Mine I did 5% ba 15% bb and distilled water. Yes the ba was high. I usually do 3%. It was more experimental. And worked out nicely. Would u like a sample to see. LOL.

KRAZIEONE

Lol I wouldn't mind testing it but I wouldn't want to be a moocher :p. Ok wait, you said you made a Test Prop & TNE (which is oil like you said) blend, but you used distilled water? I'm confused. I get the 5% BA and 15% BB (which btw, I do understand that you should use about 5% when dealing with water based solutions, whereas 1-3% is good enough for oil based solutions), but wouldn't you use something like CSO or GSO? What oil do you prefer to use? And I take it no EO or anything as well, since you only use that for high concentrations.
 
Two diff products. LOL. This round I brewed. Test prop tne blend. Then a test suspension. Then a tren no ester tne blend. All three diff. The suspension is water. The other two in coconut oil.

KRAZIEONE
 
Two diff products. LOL. This round I brewed. Test prop tne blend. Then a test suspension. Then a tren no ester tne blend. All three diff. The suspension is water. The other two in coconut oil.

KRAZIEONE

Ah okay see I didn't know you were talking about 2 different products. I thought you were saying you used distilled water in your Prop/TNE blend... I was scratching my head haha. Ok that makes a lot more sense. Yeah I know suspension is in water, I was just severely confused about where that came from lol.

Ah do you use refined coconut oil? That's one of the carrier oils (MCT) I'm more excited to work with. I constantly hear excellent things about it! I've heard you can also shoot it through a 25g (one person said 27g... not sure about that though) needle. While that isn't my main concern, it sounds pretty freaking awesome to be able to be such an effective carrier while still being able to inject it from such a small needle. I'm seriously looking forward to the tests with the coconut oil, safflower, and CSO.
 
Ya. This is triple filtered coconut not MCT. It tried hardening on me in my eq for some reason but after a reheat it was fine. MCT is a better choice that I will use next time

KRAZIEONE
 
I have 2ml vials. I can send u some samples for science purposes. Lol

KRAZIEONE

Haha if the offer still stands later I will definitely take you up on that. But right now it would just sit around because it doesn't really have a place in my planned cycles for a good while. But I think it would be awesome if later we compared how both of our end products turned out and compared our recipes and methods. I like to think we would help each other... I know you'd help me a lot, its more me helping you that I'm a bit unsure of :P. I've been putting in a ton of work to try to make the "perfect" gear. While I know I'm a good distance away from it, I feel my tests with the different carrier oils will help me get much closer.
 
Ya. This is triple filtered coconut not MCT. It tried hardening on me in my eq for some reason but after a reheat it was fine. MCT is a better choice that I will use next time

KRAZIEONE

Yeah I've heard about that happening. You should look into refined/fractionated coconut oil bro. That should handle a lot of the shit can harden up on you and possibly clog your filter. I believe coconut oil is a liquid at something like 74F and above, so if your place is chilly I can definitely see why it would start hardening up on you.
 
Haha if the offer still stands later I will definitely take you up on that. But right now it would just sit around because it doesn't really have a place in my planned cycles for a good while. But I think it would be awesome if later we compared how both of our end products turned out and compared our recipes and methods. I like to think we would help each other... I know you'd help me a lot, its more me helping you that I'm a bit unsure of :P. I've been putting in a ton of work to try to make the "perfect" gear. While I know I'm a good distance away from it, I feel my tests with the different carrier oils will help me get much closer.
Always down to trade knowledge. U never stop learning how to do this right. Always new ways to try and perfect.

KRAZIEONE
 
Always down to trade knowledge. U never stop learning how to do this right. Always new ways to try and perfect.

KRAZIEONE

For sure bro, I think we could both definitely benefit each other. It'll just take me a bit more time to get more experience under my belt before I'll reach that point for you lol. I'm just really hoping the powder source I'm getting from is as good of quality as I've heard... Because if it is, I'm completely confident I will have painless Tren A and Test P for my cycle coming up. Since those are the staples of it, I will feel great about myself if I don't have to alter my training at all due to PIP or anything!
 
Also what carrier you are using has a lot less to do with the gear holding and more to do with viscosity and shelf life your solvents and co-solvents are what holds the gear


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Also what carrier you are using has a lot less to do with the gear holding and more to do with viscosity and shelf life your solvents and co-solvents are what holds the gear


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Agreed to an extent. U can actually get away with some std dosages not even needing bb.

KRAZIEONE
 
Also what carrier you are using has a lot less to do with the gear holding and more to do with viscosity and shelf life your solvents and co-solvents are what holds the gear


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I get what you're saying bro, for sure. I know the solvents/cosolvents are what dictates how well the gear holds and all, but I was talking about how the carrier oil is a factor in the end. But I certainly know BB (and EO if one utilizes it) are more responsible for holding the gear than the actual carrier oil.

Agreed to an extent. U can actually get away with some std dosages not even needing bb.

KRAZIEONE

I've heard that before. And I've heard about some UGL's not using BB to cut costs... Although I believe this makes the product far less stable when it comes to holding the gear. Either way, I'll always utilize BB.
 
What I was saying before about how much of the hormone is utilized per quantity of oil, I was talking ceteris paribus concerning everything minus the carrier oils.
 
What I was saying before about how much of the hormone is utilized per quantity of oil, I was talking ceteris paribus concerning everything minus the carrier oils.

I get that although I haven't done any testing to prove or disprove I know some oils will hold some hormones better than others however I believe your logic regarding lower viscosity oils vs higher viscosity oils is flawed I believe any certain carrier oils ability to hold gear with more ease has a lot more to do with factors like acidity than viscosity


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I get that although I haven't done any testing to prove or disprove I know some oils will hold some hormones better than others however I believe your logic regarding lower viscosity oils vs higher viscosity oils is flawed I believe any certain carrier oils ability to hold gear with more ease has a lot more to do with factors like acidity than viscosity


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I get what you're saying bro. I can't say that I know I'm 100% correct. I'm currently going off what I've read from others (Basskiller has been an incredible source of knowledge for me) and what not. I'm going to be doing the tests soon to find out for myself. When I do the tests and come to a conclusion for sure, I'll absolutely let you know. I'll definitely look into the factors that could be responsible for certain results (such as acidity of the carrier oil, etc), and report how the results correlate with such things.

I'm more bringing all this up to hear what everyone thinks, and you've been an excellent person to carry on this discussion with. I'm very happy with how the discussion is turning out.

Also, I brought up acidity as a factor with the pain, but I absolutely agree that is likely a factor for how well the oil holds the hormones. I know I seriously oversimplified some of my statements, as I was trying to have more of a general discussion. Though I certainly don't mind us getting more specific. I was essentially saying different oils carry hormones more or less effectively than others. While I can't sit here and act as if I know every factor of why this is so, I was mentioning viscosity as a likely factor. Though I could be very mistaken. It sounds like you do agree with my basic statement though. What other factors do you feel play into this? Because I definitely see how acidity could be a large factor. Perhaps this is another reason why some highly concentrated gear is known to hurt more (along with the other reasons stated above) -- perhaps the oils that are superior for carrying higher concentrations, plus the solvents/cosolvents, ends up in a much more acidic environment and adds to the pain, while other carrier oils won't make the end solution as acidic and thus hurt less (but won't hold quite as high concentrations). Which makes sense on a certain level, as a more acidic environment should have an easier time keeping the hormone suspended.
 
I do agree with what u both are saying tho. But as far as me. I only use bb or more of it based on the concentration I'm trying to reach. I also know there is really no reason to over concentrate. I know it seems appealing as for less injections but why. Dosages were created for a reason. And Iniection protocols also. For stable blood levels. I would rather have 100ml of something at the proper dose that's perfect and painless than 50ml of something questionable.

KRAZIEONE
 
Thanks I should have a package arriving this week hopefully tomorrow I'll let you know how it works


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I honestly think this recipe can be made simpler removing the poly and bumping the bb a little just like I did w the test suspension. It is virtually the same recipe

KRAZIEONE
 
How high did you take the bb? I'll start low and increase as needed I'm just trying to get an idea of what I'm in for


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I did the equation for the recipe first with the breakdown of each ingredient. Then whatever the poly came out to I just added that much more bb instead

KRAZIEONE
 
Hey Krazie what is your injection protocol when you're using no ester Tren? And I get your earlier post about BB and concentrations. I don't care about high concentrations at all, so I completely understand what you're saying.
 
Hey Krazie what is your injection protocol when you're using no ester Tren? And I get your earlier post about BB and concentrations. I don't care about high concentrations at all, so I completely understand what you're saying.
1.5 hours prior to lifting I hit it. It takes about that long to fully absorb. I find. Everyone is diff some an hour.

KRAZIEONE
 
I'll need to give that a shot sometime. How long do you generally run it? I've never seen a cycle with esterless Tren. So I'm curious about it.
 
I'll need to give that a shot sometime. How long do you generally run it? I've never seen a cycle with esterless Tren. So I'm curious about it.
I run it the whole way as a pre workout on top of a designed cycle. Its an add on for me not a base.

KRAZIEONE
 
I run it the whole way as a pre workout on top of a designed cycle. Its an add on for me not a base.

KRAZIEONE

Gotcha. I wasn't sure if you needed to alter the cycle depending on what you were already taking. I image you don't do this when doing a Tren A/E cycle?
 
Gotcha. I wasn't sure if you needed to alter the cycle depending on what you were already taking. I image you don't do this when doing a Tren A/E cycle?
Actually. LOL. I just did it on a blast of 500mg sustanon, 600mg tren e, 600mg eq cycle recently. I was a prick son of a bitch on it. Ha.

KRAZIEONE
 
Actually. LOL. I just did it on a blast of 500mg sustanon, 600mg tren e, 600mg eq cycle recently. I was a prick son of a bitch on it. Ha.

KRAZIEONE

Ahahaha. I bet you saw incredible results from that cycle though. Did you feel the esterless Tren added a lot to the cycle? Or that it was more or less negligible since you were already running Tren E?
 
Ahahaha. I bet you saw incredible results from that cycle though. Did you feel the esterless Tren added a lot to the cycle? Or that it was more or less negligible since you were already running Tren E?
Just that it made me a lot stronger in the gym. Weights felt light. Let me work harder.

KRAZIEONE
 
So do you all generally keep a close eye on the temperature while you're heating the brew with a thermometer (or even several)? Or do you just slow heat it in water (or whatever you prefer -- as I'm more asking this as a general question for anyone that will answer) and immediately pull it from the heating source once its completely mixed in/melted?
 
I personally do not use a thermometer. I just keep my water heated enough to just under boiling. So it doesn't thrash the beaker around. And usually I heat it till it looks like its a little steamy. But not obviously too much as you will then start to cook off the ba.

KRAZIEONE
 
I personally do not use a thermometer. I just keep my water heated enough to just under boiling. So it doesn't thrash the beaker around. And usually I heat it till it looks like its a little steamy. But not obviously too much as you will then start to cook off the ba.

KRAZIEONE

Yeah. I'm mainly concerned about oxidation damage. It seems some hormones are more susceptible to oxidation damage than others, especially Tren. But that is true too. I didn't think of that. But I imagine if you don't get hot enough to cause damage to the hormone, there shouldn't be much concern about cooking off the BA.

I'm just curious if anyone uses anything to keep an eye on the temperatures and if so what they generally do. But so far I haven't met many people that do.
 
Okay so I'm throwing up an idea of doing a powder order for all the home brewers it would be from a newer powder source I have been in contact with last couple months

If you guys have any suggestions on powders that you would like to see let me know and I will see what kind of a deal I can work out


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Okay so I'm throwing up an idea of doing a powder order for all the home brewers it would be from a newer powder source I have been in contact with last couple months


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That sounds awesome man...!!


Live to ride. Ride to live
 
Well put some powders together the deals won't be as great as ohera but we can make it happen...


After we get prices I can break down the prices


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So do you all generally keep a close eye on the temperature while you're heating the brew with a thermometer (or even several)? Or do you just slow heat it in water (or whatever you prefer -- as I'm more asking this as a general question for anyone that will answer) and immediately pull it from the heating source once its completely mixed in/melted?

I use a large thermometer and it doubles as a stir stick


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I'm buying up test p right now but a larger order would be helpful as it sits right now I'm sourcing from multiple guys and I would really prefer just one


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I'm buying up test p right now but a larger order would be helpful as it sits right now I'm sourcing from multiple guys and I would really prefer just one


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How much test p you want


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We will test the winds with the following

Test p $15 per 20g shipped
Mast e $90 per 20g shipped
Bold c $40 per 20g shipped

Minimum is 20g
 
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I would appreciate it if someone could help me out.
Is the 22 whatman the best size to use?
How much oil can you filter with one?
I know hot oil is easier to push through, but how hot is too hot?
 
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