Post Cycle Therapy is a MUST!

[Needtogetaas]

Post Cycle Therapy is a MUST!​

Ever wonder why you feel so tired and tired warn down during a cycle. Do you remember gaining fifteen pounds of mass during a cycle and losing all fifteen pounds three weeks after the cycle? What about the time you saw that your testes were the size of peas! I am sure many of you who did not use a PCT received a case of gynecomastia anywhere from a couple days to a couple months after completing a cycle. I guess a lot of you wonder how you see that one guy who keeps coming to the gym day in and day out with tons of clean energy along with a constant physique, I am pretty sure if he is not on Testosterone Replacement Therapy, he has done a good PCT in order to maintain gains from his last cycle which allows him to continue to pack pounds of muscle. Throughout the years many bodybuilders have use Anabolic Androgenic steroids as a way of having an edge over their competition. However many of these bodybuilders noted that needed to stay on cycle in order to outmatch their competition. For many years people thought that after a cycle your body would normalize and return to its normal function. Unfortunately people especially individuals who got blood tested every six months such as bodybuilders noted that their testosterone levels were low in their age group. When many of these individuals consulted with their doctors, they came to the conclusion that theses exogenous hormones caused the HPTA to shutdown because of the body’s negative feedback loop reaction. A simple way of putting it is over time on a cycle, your brain sees that there is an outside source providing your body with an abundance of androgens so it tells the hypothalamus (HPTA) to stop producing gonadotropin-releasing hormone and this leads to a halt in androgen production because there is no need for more. This process usually occurs within 2-3 weeks where the exogenous hormone reaches peak plasma blood levels. At this point during the cycle one will start to feel real lethargic, mood swings may also occur among other sides. So may bodybuilders over the years have decided to take Testosterone replacement therapy as their way of avoid post cycle therapy, which allows them to go on a cycle and not have to worry about HPTA shutdown. Unfortunately, being on permanent TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy) can decrease the likelihood of having the ability to produce offspring. HCG is prescribed to people on TRT to try to help with sperm mobility/production in order to give the individual a chance to produce kids; however not everyone can regain the ability to reproduce even with HCG added to their TRT. This is why many people choose to come off artificial testosterone and AAS cycles. Another issue that typically rises with TRT is that receiving this treatment can be rather tiresome. Many doctors will not prescribe it to unless his testosterone levels are DRAMATICALLY low. They also try to use alternatives to boosting testosterone like applying the Andro gel patch (transdermal), Clomid is also used to restart the LH function but like most instances; testosterone drops with 2 weeks after using Clomid. If all alternatives fail and you are lower than before they tested you, then you will be granted TRT which to me is nonsense. It’s a shame that doctors base their treatment options on a scale, especially when they feel you are “fine” when your levels are barely a minimum. As we know people are who have minimal testosterone levels will not feel great and are more likely to suffer from different diseases. PCT also brings our body back to homeostasis which is defined by health books as ideal health because the body is balanced out. When the body is out of balance it will cause defects which lead to many physiological issues. One has to realize that when you go on cycle, you are putting a hormone that does not match up with your own body’s chemistry; this will lead to an imbalance of the equilibrium and the body as a whole. PCT puts the body back to one piece in other words.

Let us understand HCG​

Originally Human chorionic gonadotrophin a glycoprotein hormone was created to be used as a fertility drug; however it became popular in bodybuilding when bodybuilders saw its ability to mimic LH. When HCG is injected; it stimulates the leydig cells to create testosterone. Since the testosterone produced from HCG is intramuscular, it allows for spermatogenesis to manifest from the sertoli cells. One noteable drawback with HCG is its natural ability to increase estrogen and progesterone level which is caused by the fact that HCG interacts with luteinizing hormone choriogonadotropin receptor. LHCG are the receptors in which leydig cells bind to in order to produce testosterone and so forth. However; when this process occurs, the enzyme C450 which is responsible for aromatization, while the as cAMP activity increases, it signals phosphorylation to produce [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostaglandin"]prostaglandins[/ame] which include PROGESTERONE. So while it is great for sperm, you still need to keep an eye on your PRL and estradiol levels. Now I am a firm believer in one using it DURING cycle not post cycle, reason being it’s a SYNTHETIC LH mimicker. So unless you are on TRT you should not use it to recover from a cycle because it will keep you shutdown instead of booting you up to normal. There is a big controversy on how HCG should be taken, there is this scholarly article from pubmed (disagree with this article) which shows that 5000 i.u.s was effectively taken at 3 times a week
“Follicle-stimulating hormone and human spermatogenesis.
Bremner WJ, Matsumoto AM, Sussman AM, Paulsen CA.

The role of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) in the control of spermatogenesis is not well established in any species, including man. We studied the effect of an experimentally-induced, selective FSH deficiency on sperm production in normal men. After a 3-mo control period, five normal men received testosterone enanthate (T) 200 mg i. m. weekly to suppress luteinizing hormone (LH) and FSH, until three successive sperm counts revealed azoospermia or severe oligospermia (sperm counts <3 million/ml). Then, while continuing T, human chorionic gonadotropin (hcg) 5,000 IU i. m. three times weekly was administered simultaneously to replace LH activity, leaving FSH activity suppressed. The effect of the selective FSH deficiency produced by hcg plus T administration on sperm production was determined.Sperm counts (performed twice monthly throughout the study) were markedly suppressed during T administration alone (1.0+/-1.0 million/ml mean+/-SE, compared with 106+/-28 million/ml during the control period, P < 0.001). With the addition of hcg to T, sperm counts returned toward normal (46+/-16 million/ml, P < 0.001 compared with T alone). In two subjects, sperm counts during hcg plus T returned into the individual's control range. Sperm motility and morphology were consistently normal in all men during hcg plus T.Serum FSH levels by RIA were normal (110+/-10 ng/ml) in the control period and were suppressed to undetectable levels (<25 ng/ml) in the T alone and hcg plus T periods. Urinary FSH excretion was markedly suppressed in the T alone (60+/-15 mIU/h-2nd IRP, P < 0.01) and hcg plus T (37+/-9 mIU/h, P < 0.01) periods compared with the control period (334+/-78 mIU/h).We conclude that spermatogenesis as assessed by sperm counts, motilities, and morphologies may be reinitiated and maintained at normal levels in men with undetectable blood FSH levels and urinary excretion of FSH less than that of prepubertal children. This conclusion implies that, although FSH may exert effects on human testicular function, maintenance of normal spermatogenesis and reinitiation of sperm production after short-term suppression by exogenous steroids can occur in spite of nearly absent FSH stimulation.

PMID: 6793629 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]”
While Jon Chrisler has an article in which he discusses that too much HCG can be problematic because of all the aromatization that will take place due to the heightened LH and testsoterone production which is why again I am not a fan of it during pct even at lower dosages. I feel he is right even on cycle all you need is 250 i.u.s twice a week to maintain the testes producing sperm. People have to realize that HCG was not intended for just testosterone but SPERM PRODUCTION AND PREVENTION OF TESTICULAR ATROPHY, people on a cycle of testosterone usually take HCG for prevention of testicular atrophy. While on cycle and using HCG, one should be more concious of aromatization, formestane would be ideal because it blocks both estrogen and prolactin which are both elevated from HCG. I feel HMG however would be ideal to use at the beginning of PCT to stimulate LH and FSH production. So I would suggest 50-10 i.u.s of HMG on day 1 of PCT to jumpstart LH and FSH production which will make testosterone production much quicker along HPTA restoration. If one does not want to deal with the high rate of aromatization that HCG or HMG bring to the table, Fadogia is definitely a great alternative. Fadogia has been documented to boost LH levels significantly through leydig cell preservation/reproduction resulting in testosterone production. Fadogia was shown to boost testosterone 6 times more than the placebo. I also had the pleasure of seeing my friend’s blood work, his testosterone boosted over 50%, and his LH was up at least 70% which is significant considering the fact he only had been on Fadogia for 25 days.
Of course day 1 may be 2-3 weeks after that last cycle especially if you are coming off an injectable cycle. With oral anabolics, the day right after PCT begins, however with injectables; it’s all about the half life of the compound or the ester attached to the hormone. For example fast acting short esters such as propionate allow pct to begin 2-3 days after the last injection. Now a long ester like cypionate would cause a 2-3 week delay for the start of PCT. The slower the action of the ester the longer it will take to begin pct, especially when they are long slow acting esters.

Serms​

SERM stands for Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator which selectively blocks estrogen in certain tissues such as the chest area of the body. SERM’s were first developed for people suffering from breast cancer, same goes with Aromatase Inhibitors. They also have agonist (estrogen promoting) actions in which they allow estrogen to flow freely in that tissue area. Clomid is a tad different than novla because it blocks the receptors from the tissue with the hypothalamus region of the brain whole novla blocks the tissue from the chest. Clomid and Fareston (Toremiphene) have been touted as the more effective SERM’s for rebooting the HPTA. Here is an article that shows Clomid being used to SOMEWHAT help the individual recover, but they still were not 100% which is why I feel a SERM should not be the only part of a pct.
Case study: clomid normalises bodybuilder’s hormone levels
In 1995 a second-year medical student scored a scientific first. Carol Bickelman, still studying at the University of New Mexico School of Medicine, published in the Western Journal of Medicine the first medical study that described how a chemical bodybuilder restored his hormone levels that had dropped after a heavy course of steroids,by using the anti-oestrogen fertility medicine clomiphene citrate



[structural formula shown below].

​

[Eight years later, doctors from Houston claimed the same first. Their case was more serious.] [Fertil Steril. 2003 Jan;79(1):203-5.]
The competitive bodybuilder in Bickelman’s study was 29 and had just finished an 8-month long course of steroids. He had used 1500-1800 mg testosterone cypionate per week and 80 mg oxymetholone per day. [Strange dose for oxy. Maybe it was oxandrolone? - Ed.] After his steroids course the guy was impotent, and treated this by taking a four-week course of hCG injections – to no effect.
After about a year the bodybuilder was still suffering from impotence, and he went to see a doctor. The doctor noted that the man was muscular, that his testicles were small [volume: 10 ml] and that he had 2 cm gynos around his nipples.
The man’s LH and FSH production was low, as was his concentration of free testosterone. The doctors prescribed 50 mg clomid daily. It didn’t help much. He had a morning erection, but was still impotent. Only when the bodybuilder doubled the dose to 100 mg clomid/day was he capable of daily sex after a month. His testicles remained small, but his hormone levels improved.



Six months later the doctors examined the bodybuilder again. "He had returned to the illicit use of testosterone cypionate at 400 mg per week to achieve a level of sexual performance three times that achieved with clomiphene alone. He noted that his testes were smaller, and he was considering trying another course of hCG in combination with tamoxifen to prevent worsening gynecomastia." [3]

I personally feel the main reason that Clomid is not as effective as people thought it would be, is the fact that it boosts LH rather quickly which allows for quick aromatization, also Novla and Fareston block more estrogen than Clomid does. Another problem with SERMs in general is the fact that they raise SHBG’s. http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cgi/content/full/64/4/612
This article talks mainly about Novla, HOWEVER; they mention that any other SERM that works through similar mechanisms such as Clomid/Fareston will have the same effects in raising SHBG. The study also shows that anxiety increased while SHBG’s increased which associated with HIGH estrogenic activity. Other studies show that high SHBG levels lead to lower total/free testosterone levels which would explain why testosterone levels drop so quickly post usage of these SERMs. If one is going to use a SERM during pct, the individual needs to control SHBG levels. These high induced SHBG levels can also lead to delayed gynecomastia. Novla also should NEVER be used for an progestin hormone cycle because it has been documented to aggravate progesterone receptors by up-regulating them.
SERMs also provide a lot of sides that are not so favorable such as hot flashes, nausea, shortness of breath, rapid heart rate, night sweats, lethargy, emotional bouts (especially with Clomid), sleep disturbances, etc.

Lowering SHBG​

http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/3/7/1101.full.pdf
This article explains how Exemestane blocks SHBG levels while lowering estrogen levels and not binding to the sites, which PREVENTS REBOUND. However, I do not recommend using Exemestane at the start of pct unless the compound you are using is very estrogenic such as Testosterone, which Exemestane would be using during cycle and before pct if one use a slow releasing ester. During PCT I recommend lower dosages of Exmestane that lies anywhere from 5mg to 12.5mg every other day due to its long half life. Now if the compound has low estrogenic activity, I do not recommend using Exemestane till the end of week 2 into pct. If you want an early start in lowering SHBG’s I HIHGLY recommend divanil which is an extract from stinging nettle root/urtica dioica.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9463941
The article explains how divanil has the highest affinity binding to SHBG which limits its actions and allows one to produce more free testosterone. More free (useable) testosterone leads to greater libido, more strength, more lean muscle, fat loss, less cortisol secretion.

Phyto Serms are also other legal/natural ways in boosting testosterone while blocking estrogen. Here is an excerpt to flavones SERM/AI’s:
Science, Vol 225, Issue 4666, 1032-1034
Copyright © 1984 by American Association for the Advancement of Science

​

“articles
Inhibition of human estrogen synthetase (aromatase) by flavones
JT Kellis Jr and LE Vickery
Several naturally occurring and synthetic flavones were found to inhibit the aromatization of androstenedione and testosterone to estrogens catalyzed by human placental and ovarian microsomes. These flavones include (in order of decreasing potency) 7,8-benzoflavone, chrysin, apigenin, flavone, flavanone, and quercetin; 5,6-benzoflavone was not inhibitory. 7,8-Benzoflavone and chrysin were potent competitive inhibitors and induced spectral changes in the aromatase cytochrome P-450 indicative of substrate displacement. Flavones may thus compete with steroids in their interaction with certain monooxygenases and thereby alter steroid hormone metabolism. “

Chrysin when used in a transermal shows much promise as an effective SERM and healthier alternative over pharm grade SERMs. Among these other natual SERM’s comes Reservatrol. Reservatrol boosts testosterone via cAMP activity while also improving sperm production/quality. It also has been touted to be a great erection enhancer by allowing more nitric oxide flow to the corpus cavernosum. This means that Reservatrol works similar to Viagra in providing blood flow for maximum sexual performance which can suffer during and post cycle. Not only does it promote testosterone boosting but it acts as anti-aging supplement by increasing the SR1-T activity in the body. Of course Reservatrol has much high bio-availability when used through transdermal delivery. I3C is another herbal raw that modulates estrogen just like SERMs, and is definitely much more bio-available than DIM unless DIM is used through transdermal delivery.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18277612

YUCKY Progesterone/Prolactin levels​

I am also a firm believer of keeping progesterone levels down before they raise prolactin levels or lead to progesterone gynecomastia. There are two effective ways of doing it the OTC way which is either to use Formestane or high doses of L-dopa from mucana . The pharma grade meds would include bromocriptone or caber which we know can cause FATAL sides. Those types of ancillaries need to be used with caution and awareness of one’s body. If one chooses to use 50% L-dopa during pct, I recommend taking 500-800mgs of it from mucuna pruriens along 500mg of green tea extract (50% ECGC’s) and 50mcg of HuzperineA to inhibit somastatin levels. If one chooses to use Formestane during pct, I recommend no more than 50mg since it’s enough to do its effect without really exerting any androgenic activity.

DREADED CORTISOL Post Cycle​

As one knows during a cycle cortisol levels rise dramatically and wreak havoc on your muscles as soon as you get off the anabolic hormone. While 7keto DHEA does not convert to testosterone or estrogen, I am skeptic to use ANY form of DHEA during pct. Personally adaptogens have been a personal favorite cortisol blocker of mine during pct. Adaptogens have the ability to stabilize the CNS while increasing testosterone. Basically adaptogens calm you down and make you feel better so you do not stress so easily and maintain gains. http://www.ergo-log.com/humor.html That article explains how being amused and relaxed prevents cortisol from attacking muscle, delaying muscle breakdown. So one achieves a Win Win solution; by enjoying themselves while preventing muscle breakdown. My favorite adaptogen is ashwagandha because I feel great while on it. I also take it prior to sleep since it calms me down rather efficiently. I found this article to be rather interesting:

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“Forty percent more testosterone with Ashwagandha
Give men a daily dose of 5 g Withania somnifera – commonly known as Ashwagandha – and monitor their hormone levels. Their testosterone production

will rise by forty percent within three months, researchers at the Indian Chhatrapati Shahuji Maharaj Medical University discovered when they did trials on 75 men who were having problems conceiving children.


Fifteen percent of couples face fertility problems and half of these are caused by men with a low sperm count. In countries like India this is a bigger problem than in richer western countries, because many people do not have the money for expensive IVF treatment. This was the reasoning behind the researchers’ decision to give 75 infertile men a herb that Indian healers have been using for centuries. Ashwagandha. The men were given five grams of the dried roots of Withania somnifera, ground and mixed with milk.
In classical Indian medicine, Ayurveda, Ashwagandha is considered a tonic for the elderly and a libido enhancing substance. In tests done on rats, the herb speeds up testes development and increases sperm production. In some animal studies, there was a decline in testosterone production in the animals that had been given Ashwagandha. [J Ethnopharmacol. 2001 Apr;75(1):1-4.] That’s not such good news. But in an animal study done in the early 1990s, Ashwagandha was shown to have an anabolic effect. [J Ethnopharmacol. 1994 Dec;44(3):131-5.] That’s better news.
The table below comes from the recent Indian study which will soon be published in Fertility & Sterility, and is probably of interest to you.



In the infertile men with normal sperm, the herb increased testosterone production by fifteen percent. In the men with a low sperm count we’re talking about an increase of forty percent, and in men with slow moving sperm an increase of 21 percent.
Unhindered by expert knowledge and speculating freely, we suspect that Ashwagandha is interesting for chemical athletes who’ve just finished a course of steroids, and natural athletes whose hormone production has declined as a result of extreme dieting.
The researchers also examined the effect of Ashwagandha on prolactin production. The herb led to a slight decline in the production of this hormone. And when it came to sperm, Ashwagandha led to an increase in quantity and a slightly smaller increase in mobility, although the effects were not statistically significant for all groups.
The researchers found more antioxidant vitamins in the men after they had undergone treatment. It would seem that Ashwagandha neutralises free radicals, they speculate. And they suspect that this is the mechanism through which Ashwagandha increases fertility and testosterone levels.
"Although direct hormonal supplements have been tried in male infertility treatment, the outcome was very poor and with the cost of certain side effects", the researchers write in their conclusion. "Therefore, Withania somnifera offers a better and safe method of restoring sex hormones in male infertility treatment."
Source:
Fertil Steril. 2009 Jun 5.
So ashwagandha led to a 50% increase in total testosterone while decreasing prolactin levels. I also like other adaptogens such as bacopa monnieri, rhodiola rosea, and shilajit. Besides adaptogens; phosphatidylserine has also been proven to lower cortisol while boosting testosterone levels which would also make it a great addition to pct. Keeping a proper testosterone to cortisol ratio is just as important as the testosterone to estrogen ratio when it comes to maintaining muscle. I recommend taking cortisol inhibitors 1-2 hours upon wakening and right after training in order to maintain a proper testosterone to cortisol ratio.
http://www.ergo-log.com/phosphatidylserine.html

Another positive trait to add about PCT is the fact that allows the liver to go through a cleansing process. I have seen countless blood panels in which the individual’s ALT/AST levels significantly improved by the fourth week of PCT. This explains the importance of homeostasis; when endogenous testosterone rises along other hormone production, the liver gets stronger to fight the stress that was put upon it during the cycle. Most pct supplements will help your body with liver protection; however, Novla is a SERM I do not recommend for pct if you had real high elevated liver values during your cycle’s blood test, since Novla is harsh on the liver. As I mentioned earlier; homeostasis defines health which means that your body/equilibrium is balanced out. A proper PCT will balance one’s hormones along their overall health including cholesterol, bone mineral density, blood pressure, mental state, social behavior, libido, erection strength, maintenance of gains and so forth.

So lets recap the importance of PCT:
Helps our body get back to homeostasis
Reboots HPTA
Helps our overall sense of well being
Maintenance of gains and keeps the body Anti-Catabolic
Increased Immune system protection
Increased Libido
Reconstruction of blood Vessels/bone preservation
I feel people at times do not realize that estrogen and cortisol can diminish gains so rapidly, people forget that testosterone is not just a masculine hormone but an ANABOLIC hormone as well. PCT ensures that our testosterone levels out number our other CATABOLIC (muscle destroying) such as estrogen and cortisol. I cannot design a specific PCT for everyone since people respond differently to different PCT protocols but I tell you that you need to PCT if you want to get the most out of your cycle. PCT allows you to maintain gains plus it allows you to continue to add gains year round. I advise anyone who is planning on doing a cycle to make sure that they get blood work done so that they know where they stand prior and post cycle. I also recommend people to get a blood test done post PCT so they know if they responded well to those PCT supplements they used. So now you all see PCT is a MUST!

Other sources​

1. Laurence A Cole. New discoveries on the biology and detection of human chorionic gonadotropin. Reprod Biol Endocrinol. 2009; 7: 8.
Published online 2009 January 26. 2009

2. allthingsmale.com
3. West J Med. 1995 February; 162(2): 158–160.

 

[andrew732]

NICE bro, PCT indeed is a MUST!!!

 

[ViperRulz]

Excellent information as usual. love to read about the how & why of all these processes since I havent been around it for very long. Good Stuff Needto :14:

 

[imported_Kristofer68ss]

PCT?

Imagine that.

Nice write up!!

 

[russianstar]

Enjoyed the read, nice to see a post, read it, and be pleased that its been written well.

 

[Jury101b]

Yes sir.

And if you dont know how to get bloodwork, there is a sticky up top this forum explaining how to get it done cheaply, without insurance. (most likely it will be less than what you can get with insurance too)

 

[dr.stack]

what about people an HRT or TRT and the ones that just "cruise" and stay on?

 

[Conrad]

what about people an HRT or TRT and the ones that just "cruise" and stay on?

I never come off. If the individual blast with higher dose then backs down to HRT dose, then PCT is not needed.

 

[dr.stack]

I never come off. If the individual blast with higher dose then backs down to HRT dose, then PCT is not needed.

thats what i started doing about 6 months ago... thanks for the response!

 

[sweed]

you youngsters already doing hrt!!!??
for the other guys, yes PCT is a must to hold onto those gains, then get on some bridge to help you out even more!

 

[SouthernCharm]

Yes sir.

And if you dont know how to get bloodwork, there is a sticky up top this forum explaining how to get it done cheaply, without insurance. (most likely it will be less than what you can get with insurance too)

Just got my bloods done via this method. 51 bucks out of pocket after a 6 week bridge. Can't go wrong.


Awesome thread Needto, PCT is NOT optional.

 

[Firetruck]

Great information. Learning every day. Probably should have learned more before doin aas. Better late than never

 

[TheKrayzeemoney]

Fantastic read! Thanks for putting this up for all of us to read.