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Robolics Tren ace

Gearhead13#2

New member
As many of you may know robotics labs is a very trusted private lab, this is for a reason guys. There stuff is top of the line on all fronts. After sinking my teeth into a few vials of robo Tren I find myself more and more impressed with this lab. Little to no pip, hits hard and fast just the way it should. Within the last 4 weeks I've droped into the single digits again b/f wise(inspite of my winter bulk). I'm planning another 4 weeks and I'm confident in the results to come. Thanks again robo!
 
Questions about this because as we all know, Tren ain't for everyone. Does Robolics tren being so strong also result in more possible side effects? Ran tren in my last cycle for 8 weeks and got one bout of anxiety one day on the last week. Couldn't sleep for chit that night.
 
More side affects no... It's dependent on the person how bad sides are.. I'm as cool as a cucumber on Tren, it all depends on you. Robolics is dosed properly so it may have some increased sides for somebody running underdosed crap and hasent had quality trenbolone. Maby best for people to start low with robo tren, you can always increase the dosage if needed.
 
Im a little tightly wound up to begin with so on tren i have to really make a conscious effort to not break things when i get pissed. Got a coffee table with 4 holes in it so far. Luckily its just a cheap ikea piece. I think if i could lessen the side effect of lacking wind on tren it would go a long way with chilling me out.
And yes the tren is properly dosed.
 
Im a little tightly wound up to begin with so on tren i have to really make a conscious effort to not break things when i get pissed. Got a coffee table with 4 holes in it so far. Luckily its just a cheap ikea piece. I think if i could lessen the side effect of lacking wind on tren it would go a long way with chilling me out.
And yes the tren is properly dosed.

Do you keep your estro in check? Best thing to add to tren (or any blast for that matter) is mast. Really helps with the sides tren gives. No blast is complete without mast it's such a great hormone
 
This summer I want to run tren ace again and I would only consider - Robo's Tren A was by far the cleanest and potent i shredded out better than anything. I miss it but I gotta ride my bike a ton right now but once June hits in ready for some Robo tren
 
Do you keep your estro in check? Best thing to add to tren (or any blast for that matter) is mast. Really helps with the sides tren gives. No blast is complete without mast it's such a great hormone

How does adding another steroid help the sides of tren bro
 
Do you keep your estro in check? Best thing to add to tren (or any blast for that matter) is mast. Really helps with the sides tren gives. No blast is complete without mast it's such a great hormone

Believe me bro SD takes care of his shit, he's one of the most knowledgeable bros on here, lol I have a feeling he keeps his estro in check as well my man.
 
I really need to get my hands on that robotics password it sounds like lol. I should've joined evo back when I started my first cycle a year ago lol
 
Dam just about every tread on robolabs makes it sound just so juicy especially when people talk about there tren I've only ran tren once from asia-pharma but that shit made me very irritable and pretty much mad all time anyone experience any thing like that while on robo's tren? I know i differs from person to person but so far i haven't read that anyones had anger issues while taking robo's tren.
 
Also any suggestions for which is best in season when tests could happen? What is the best between seasons when testimg would be months away. I kmow you also have to factor in post cycle.
 
Day 2 of upping the Tren to 100 mg e/d now the fun starts ( new guys do not even think about these dosages) I'm just a lucky one that gets the gains but doesn't get the sides aside from sweating more. I love Tren I just wish it wasnt so bad for you.. I'd never come off. Go robo!
 
How does adding another steroid help the sides of tren bro



Have you never added mast to tren? Adding a dht has always helped with any sides I get. I prefer mast because it's just a great hormone. It makes me feel calmer and sleep is greatly improved. Not to mention it enhances your look a great deal too. They go together like peanut butter and jelly. You'd be surprised by how much it helps
 
Have you never added mast to tren? Adding a dht has always helped with any sides I get. I prefer mast because it's just a great hormone. It makes me feel calmer and sleep is greatly improved. Not to mention it enhances your look a great deal too. They go together like peanut butter and jelly. You'd be surprised by how much it helps
Is this just a subjective experience for you, or are there any studies or other people that can back up this claim. I really hope it's true.

Much anabolic, so muscle.
 
Is this just a subjective experience for you, or are there any studies or other people that can back up this claim. I really hope it's true.

Much anabolic, so muscle.

There are studies done on how dht effects different people, I'll try and find it and post it up. But everyone I know who runs tren and gets sides, I reccomend adding mast to their stack and it always helps them out. To me mast is a feel good hormone and really helps every stack out. Lowers shbg which frees up more of your gear to be utilized, adds a nice dryness, helps with estro control and libido. And sleep is greatly improved, no more trensomnia for me

Everyone always talks about how mast is pointless if you're not single digits and that's just untrue. You may not be able to see the visual effects it can add, but you will feel it and realize it's one of the best additions to a stack. It's a potent androgen to which really helps with lipolysis. If you have a reliable source for mast, use it in my opinion. It really only adds benefits to the stack
 
There are studies done on how dht effects different people, I'll try and find it and post it up. But everyone I know who runs tren and gets sides, I reccomend adding mast to their stack and it always helps them out. To me mast is a feel good hormone and really helps every stack out. Lowers shbg which frees up more of your gear to be utilized, adds a nice dryness, helps with estro control and libido. And sleep is greatly improved, no more trensomnia for me

Everyone always talks about how mast is pointless if you're not single digits and that's just untrue. You may not be able to see the visual effects it can add, but you will feel it and realize it's one of the best additions to a stack. It's a potent androgen to which really helps with lipolysis. If you have a reliable source for mast, use it in my opinion. It really only adds benefits to the stack
Thanks a lot for that information, bro. I'll definitely give it a try with my upcoming tren ace cycle. Do you recommend adding it in towards the end of the cycle?

Much anabolic, so muscle.
 
The Power of DHT

First off, a basic explanation of DHT (Dihydrotestosterone); it is an androgen (male sex hormone), like Testosterone, which rather than promoting the growth of muscle mass directly (tissue-acting), it acts via intracellular (in the cell) mechanisms to increase strength and metabolism. DHT is not very anabolic, but it is Androgenic, and thus meaning, it promotes masculine characteristics (such as a deeper voice, and growth of facial hair, body hair etc) (1). DHT has a bad rap, since it has been claimed to cause an enlarged prostate, but if you follow the source, *most* of the studies saying this are linked to pharmaceutical promotion of their anti-prostate, anti-Male drug, Finasteride (Propecia) and Dustasteride(2) (3). DHT has also been claimed to cause your hair follicles to become thin, and your hair - subsequently falls out. No. Just No. DHT has been implicated as a factor at most, more studies show that more specifically it is Zinc deficiency AND genetics that provoke male pattern baldness (4)(5). Although Zinc deficiency causes the rise of DHT levels, it also causes increases in prolactin, and estrogen, thus the real problem here *could* have to do with either of those hormones. Just to clarify, Anti-ESTROGEN drugs have been used recently to treat prostate enlargement (BPH), and they are very successful, with less side-effects(6) (7) (8) (9). So if they were wrong about DHT causing prostate enlargement, maybe they were wrong about DHT and hair loss too.

DHT - HOW IT AFFECTS THE BRAIN - AND NERVOUS SYSTEM


But anyway, we got carried away. Let's go on to discuss DHT's effects in the Brain.
DHT has pronounced effects on neurochemistry (it affects neurotransmitters in the brain). DHT has been shown to increase circulating epinephrine levels (adrenaline), this can cause anxiety in predisposed individuals, however, most of the time, this is not the case, since DHT also increases GABA activity in the brain, which is relaxing (10) (11) (12). So in other words, DHT should promote A focused, calm burst of energy, which is what many users of DHT-based steroids, report as the "alpha-male" feeling (13) (14). Dihydrotestosterone increase central and nervous system energy production by increasing not just adrenaline, but cyclic AMP (15). This molecule increase thermogenesis (fat-burning and heat production)(16). Cyclic AMP facilitates the conversion of TSH thyroid hormone, to T4, a more potent thyroid hormone, thus, indirectly, DHT increases thyroid function (by increasing cyclic AMP) (17).

So seeing all this, DHT definitely acts as a nervous system stimulant, and a metabolic "probe", it also increases GABA. Second to this though, it could indirectly decrease serotonin or serotonin receptors; since DHT antagonizes estrogen activity, and estrogen helps maintain the expression of serotonin receptors in the brain(18) (19). This is also consistent with DHT being shown to stop estrogen induced prolactin release(20).
This is part of the reason behind using DHT Gel to treat gynecomasita. Clearly DHT has anti-depressant effects, since Finasteride causes depression (21) and also based on the above mentioned activity of DHT in the brain. It gives energy, it gives focus, it gives aggression.

DHT also improves spatial working memory(22), according to some studies, by altering NMDA-receptors(23) (namely increasing), and by improving Calcium-induced acetylcholine release & function in the hippocampus(24)(25); a very important area of the brain involved in memory formation and spatial (directional) memory.

DHT also decreases glutamate levels and excitory outputs through other mechanisms (26) (27) (28).


Finally, Dihydrotestosterone, or it's metabolite 3-alpha-Diol; downregulate alpha-adrenergic receptor distribution, leading to more inhibitory adrenergic (adrenaline influence)(29) (30) (31). For those who don't know, adrenaline can activate an 'alpha receptor' - which stimulates the nervous system, vasoconstricting blood vessels and arteries, raising blood pressure, or it can activate a beta-adrenergic receptor, generally vasodilating artieries, but yet, increasing heart contractile force. This all might just be another result or a reflection of what is mentioned above, that DHT increases epinephrine, GABA, and cyclic AMP. However, in a separate study, Testosterone (without specificity), had upregulated alpha-1-receptors to protect the heart against ischemia(32). Is this an effect of Testosterone or it's metabolites though. Likely, it doesn't matter, it was probably case coincidental, but may indicate that if blood pressure falls too low, Testosterone can increase it to maintain homeostasis.

In yet another study however, DHT has been shown to increase alpha-1-adrenergic expression, whereas Estrogen decreased the expression/density(33).
This again reflects the need for DHT and Estrogen to be kept in balance, as both promote vasodilation through different pathways, however, since Alpha-1-receptors are incredibly potent Vasoconstrictors, DHT + an OVERALL deficiency in nitric oxide may actually promote high blood pressure, especially in coordination with estrogen deficiency. Interestingly, Alpha-1-receptor activation may increase serotonin activity at the 5-HT1A receptor(34)(35), this is an auto-receptor that ironically seems to possess anxiolytic (serotonin-typical) effects. 5-HT1A activation has shown to help social anxiety disorder, but worsen anticipation anxieties(36)(37).
In another study, DHT/Androgens also facilitated serotonin 5-HT1A/1B agonist-decreases in aggression, which is controversial, although it appears that estrogen allows for intermale aggression by downregulating serotonin 5-HT1A/1B activity(38)(39). Thus DHT's only pro-aggressive propertly lies in it's adrenaline promoting effect, and not with serotonin.




So DHT via multiple pathways increases nervous system strength, DHT increases epinephrine levels, decreases prolactin (assuming you have enough dopamine production as well), increases GABA, may decrease serotonin and serotonin receptors. All-round this means DHT has positive effects on your chemistry and nerve cells. By reducing prolactin, and estrogen, and subsequently serotonin, and also regulating catecholamines, by this, DHT can definitely increase libido, and alleviate sexual anxiety in most individuals by increasing GABA. DHT is key to many of Testosterone's brain benefits. Keep in mind though, despite positive effects on brain chemistry, this still doesn't give an excuse to OD on aromatase inhibitors, likely, because you need a little bit of estrogen (not much at all), to promote nNOS (neuronal nitric oxide synthase) production. So DHT serves as a great compliment to a little bit of brain estradiol, and a great ratio of DHT to estrogen means optimal sex drive, stamina, charisma and general masculinity.


Let's summarize in Bullets Here.

DHT regulates alpha and beta adrenergic receptors.
DHT may increase alpha-1-receptor density.
DHT may decrease glutamate activity and increases mGLU7 expression (which increases GABA release)
DHT increases serotonin 5-HT1A receptor density by influencing A1-Adr.Receptors.
DHT promotes serotonin 5-HT1A/1B activity and may reduce aggression in the presence of serotonin. Although this may easily be over ridden by the pro-adrenergic effects of DHT.
DHT increases beta-endorphin release by ^ 5-HT1A receptor indirect activation.
DHT facilitates the release of Epinephrine (adrenaline).
DHT increases cyclic AMP.
DHT blocks estrogen-induced prolactin release.
DHT reduces serotonin and serotonin receptors by inhibiting estrogen influence in the Brain. (but mainly acting to oppose 5-HT2A,2C and 5-HT4 receptors)
DHT increases GABA and GABA-A (neurosteroid-specific) receptor expression.
DHT increases NMDA-receptors in the Hippocampus.
DHT increases Ca3 (Calcium) evoked Acetylcholine Function(AcH release).
DHT increases nervous system strength and regulates blood pressure.
 
Thanks a lot for that information, bro. I'll definitely give it a try with my upcoming tren ace cycle. Do you recommend adding it in towards the end of the cycle?

Much anabolic, so muscle.

I start it from the get go. What compunds are you running? And what are your goals for the cycle?
 
I never tried their tren but their nandrolone decanate and test-e are the best around. Some people think they are a little high. I love knowing when you go with Robo your going to get what you are expecting. If you get var, your going to get var and not winstrol. Thanks ROBO you guys are the real-deal!
 
Do you keep your estro in check? Best thing to add to tren (or any blast for that matter) is mast. Really helps with the sides tren gives. No blast is complete without mast it's such a great hormone
...Mast has some a.i. properties in it. It should never be taken in substiute for an a.i. You should take prami while on tren. Check out kai he has pharma prami. They have video's that explain all of these things at the top of the home page. I think you click on video's. They also have a bunch of video's on u-tube. If you look up "need to build muscle" and "evolutionary.org" dylan does video's on everything from clen to tren. If you subscribe you will receive all the new video's when they are released. I learned more in a week watching these video's than i did in 3 month and it will remind you of a lot of stuff you forgot.
 
I just looked it and when taking tren you should take caber or prami. Some people think you can't get bitch tits from tren but you can. Caber is a little more but some guys say prami bothers their stomach. I would 100% be taking caber with tren. Do some research on caber.
 
Fuck prami caber is much smoother in my opinion.. And yes prolactin related gyno is very real on tren and deca
 
The Power of DHT

First off, a basic explanation of DHT (Dihydrotestosterone); it is an androgen (male sex hormone), like Testosterone, which rather than promoting the growth of muscle mass directly (tissue-acting), it acts via intracellular (in the cell) mechanisms to increase strength and metabolism. DHT is not very anabolic, but it is Androgenic, and thus meaning, it promotes masculine characteristics (such as a deeper voice, and growth of facial hair, body hair etc) (1). DHT has a bad rap, since it has been claimed to cause an enlarged prostate, but if you follow the source, *most* of the studies saying this are linked to pharmaceutical promotion of their anti-prostate, anti-Male drug, Finasteride (Propecia) and Dustasteride(2) (3). DHT has also been claimed to cause your hair follicles to become thin, and your hair - subsequently falls out. No. Just No. DHT has been implicated as a factor at most, more studies show that more specifically it is Zinc deficiency AND genetics that provoke male pattern baldness (4)(5). Although Zinc deficiency causes the rise of DHT levels, it also causes increases in prolactin, and estrogen, thus the real problem here *could* have to do with either of those hormones. Just to clarify, Anti-ESTROGEN drugs have been used recently to treat prostate enlargement (BPH), and they are very successful, with less side-effects(6) (7) (8) (9). So if they were wrong about DHT causing prostate enlargement, maybe they were wrong about DHT and hair loss too.

DHT - HOW IT AFFECTS THE BRAIN - AND NERVOUS SYSTEM


But anyway, we got carried away. Let's go on to discuss DHT's effects in the Brain.
DHT has pronounced effects on neurochemistry (it affects neurotransmitters in the brain). DHT has been shown to increase circulating epinephrine levels (adrenaline), this can cause anxiety in predisposed individuals, however, most of the time, this is not the case, since DHT also increases GABA activity in the brain, which is relaxing (10) (11) (12). So in other words, DHT should promote A focused, calm burst of energy, which is what many users of DHT-based steroids, report as the "alpha-male" feeling (13) (14). Dihydrotestosterone increase central and nervous system energy production by increasing not just adrenaline, but cyclic AMP (15). This molecule increase thermogenesis (fat-burning and heat production)(16). Cyclic AMP facilitates the conversion of TSH thyroid hormone, to T4, a more potent thyroid hormone, thus, indirectly, DHT increases thyroid function (by increasing cyclic AMP) (17).

So seeing all this, DHT definitely acts as a nervous system stimulant, and a metabolic "probe", it also increases GABA. Second to this though, it could indirectly decrease serotonin or serotonin receptors; since DHT antagonizes estrogen activity, and estrogen helps maintain the expression of serotonin receptors in the brain(18) (19). This is also consistent with DHT being shown to stop estrogen induced prolactin release(20).
This is part of the reason behind using DHT Gel to treat gynecomasita. Clearly DHT has anti-depressant effects, since Finasteride causes depression (21) and also based on the above mentioned activity of DHT in the brain. It gives energy, it gives focus, it gives aggression.

DHT also improves spatial working memory(22), according to some studies, by altering NMDA-receptors(23) (namely increasing), and by improving Calcium-induced acetylcholine release & function in the hippocampus(24)(25); a very important area of the brain involved in memory formation and spatial (directional) memory.

DHT also decreases glutamate levels and excitory outputs through other mechanisms (26) (27) (28).


Finally, Dihydrotestosterone, or it's metabolite 3-alpha-Diol; downregulate alpha-adrenergic receptor distribution, leading to more inhibitory adrenergic (adrenaline influence)(29) (30) (31). For those who don't know, adrenaline can activate an 'alpha receptor' - which stimulates the nervous system, vasoconstricting blood vessels and arteries, raising blood pressure, or it can activate a beta-adrenergic receptor, generally vasodilating artieries, but yet, increasing heart contractile force. This all might just be another result or a reflection of what is mentioned above, that DHT increases epinephrine, GABA, and cyclic AMP. However, in a separate study, Testosterone (without specificity), had upregulated alpha-1-receptors to protect the heart against ischemia(32). Is this an effect of Testosterone or it's metabolites though. Likely, it doesn't matter, it was probably case coincidental, but may indicate that if blood pressure falls too low, Testosterone can increase it to maintain homeostasis.

In yet another study however, DHT has been shown to increase alpha-1-adrenergic expression, whereas Estrogen decreased the expression/density(33).
This again reflects the need for DHT and Estrogen to be kept in balance, as both promote vasodilation through different pathways, however, since Alpha-1-receptors are incredibly potent Vasoconstrictors, DHT + an OVERALL deficiency in nitric oxide may actually promote high blood pressure, especially in coordination with estrogen deficiency. Interestingly, Alpha-1-receptor activation may increase serotonin activity at the 5-HT1A receptor(34)(35), this is an auto-receptor that ironically seems to possess anxiolytic (serotonin-typical) effects. 5-HT1A activation has shown to help social anxiety disorder, but worsen anticipation anxieties(36)(37).
In another study, DHT/Androgens also facilitated serotonin 5-HT1A/1B agonist-decreases in aggression, which is controversial, although it appears that estrogen allows for intermale aggression by downregulating serotonin 5-HT1A/1B activity(38)(39). Thus DHT's only pro-aggressive propertly lies in it's adrenaline promoting effect, and not with serotonin.




So DHT via multiple pathways increases nervous system strength, DHT increases epinephrine levels, decreases prolactin (assuming you have enough dopamine production as well), increases GABA, may decrease serotonin and serotonin receptors. All-round this means DHT has positive effects on your chemistry and nerve cells. By reducing prolactin, and estrogen, and subsequently serotonin, and also regulating catecholamines, by this, DHT can definitely increase libido, and alleviate sexual anxiety in most individuals by increasing GABA. DHT is key to many of Testosterone's brain benefits. Keep in mind though, despite positive effects on brain chemistry, this still doesn't give an excuse to OD on aromatase inhibitors, likely, because you need a little bit of estrogen (not much at all), to promote nNOS (neuronal nitric oxide synthase) production. So DHT serves as a great compliment to a little bit of brain estradiol, and a great ratio of DHT to estrogen means optimal sex drive, stamina, charisma and general masculinity.


Let's summarize in Bullets Here.

DHT regulates alpha and beta adrenergic receptors.
DHT may increase alpha-1-receptor density.
DHT may decrease glutamate activity and increases mGLU7 expression (which increases GABA release)
DHT increases serotonin 5-HT1A receptor density by influencing A1-Adr.Receptors.
DHT promotes serotonin 5-HT1A/1B activity and may reduce aggression in the presence of serotonin. Although this may easily be over ridden by the pro-adrenergic effects of DHT.
DHT increases beta-endorphin release by ^ 5-HT1A receptor indirect activation.
DHT facilitates the release of Epinephrine (adrenaline).
DHT increases cyclic AMP.
DHT blocks estrogen-induced prolactin release.
DHT reduces serotonin and serotonin receptors by inhibiting estrogen influence in the Brain. (but mainly acting to oppose 5-HT2A,2C and 5-HT4 receptors)
DHT increases GABA and GABA-A (neurosteroid-specific) receptor expression.
DHT increases NMDA-receptors in the Hippocampus.
DHT increases Ca3 (Calcium) evoked Acetylcholine Function(AcH release).
DHT increases nervous system strength and regulates blood pressure.
Thanks for this detailed information, man. Do you have the link by chance? I'd like to look at some of their sources in better detail if possible.

Much anabolic, so muscle.
 
I start it from the get go. What compunds are you running? And what are your goals for the cycle?
Well, this time around I'm running a simple test c only cycle to see how I respond to test c alone. My next cycle after this first bulking cycle, I am looking to run tren A with some mast p to harden up and gain a little more size.

Much anabolic, so muscle.
 
...Mast has some a.i. properties in it. It should never be taken in substiute for an a.i. You should take prami while on tren. Check out kai he has pharma prami. They have video's that explain all of these things at the top of the home page. I think you click on video's. They also have a bunch of video's on u-tube. If you look up "need to build muscle" and "evolutionary.org" dylan does video's on everything from clen to tren. If you subscribe you will receive all the new video's when they are released. I learned more in a week watching these video's than i did in 3 month and it will remind you of a lot of stuff you forgot.

Yes mast has some anti e properties but it isn't an anti e at all, it offsets estro symptoms by raising your dht to estro ratio. And in my opinion, a dopamine agonist such as Prami or caber should be taken on an as needed basis only. These aren't drugs to be taken lightly and if you know how to keep estrogen in range, your prolactin won't raise either. There are potentially terrible sides with DAs so please anyone reading this, take them if and only if your prolactin is high
 
Well, this time around I'm running a simple test c only cycle to see how I respond to test c alone. My next cycle after this first bulking cycle, I am looking to run tren A with some mast p to harden up and gain a little more size.

Much anabolic, so muscle.


That looks like a solid plan you have there. Something like 50mg/day of tren test and mast would be an excellent second cycle and would provide some very nice lean gains.



I found that post on another forum so I'll have to do some digging for the sources. But if and when I find them, I'll post them or pm them to you
 
Yes mast has some anti e properties but it isn't an anti e at all, it offsets estro symptoms by raising your dht to estro ratio. And in my opinion, a dopamine agonist such as Prami or caber should be taken on an as needed basis only. These aren't drugs to be taken lightly and if you know how to keep estrogen in range, your prolactin won't raise either. There are potentially terrible sides with DAs so please anyone reading this, take them if and only if your prolactin is high
.....Are you saying it's dose dependent if i should run caber with tren? What i mean is if i am just taking 150-200mg/week of tren then don't worry about it but if i am blasting i should take it? I was told by a senior member on this board that i should always run a caber with tren. I guess getting bloodwork is a must in order to know for sure. Thanks for the info, i thought it was "understood" that you were to take a caber with tren to keep from getting bitch tits. I'm learning and trying to help other guys. I DEFINITILY don't want to be telling other brothers something wrong.
 
.....Are you saying it's dose dependent if i should run caber with tren? What i mean is if i am just taking 150-200mg/week of tren then don't worry about it but if i am blasting i should take it? I was told by a senior member on this board that i should always run a caber with tren. I guess getting bloodwork is a must in order to know for sure. Thanks for the info, i thought it was "understood" that you were to take a caber with tren to keep from getting bitch tits. I'm learning and trying to help other guys. I DEFINITILY don't want to be telling other brothers something wrong.

Well I definitely disagree with the member who told you to run caber with tren no matter what. I've taken tren up to a gram a week and there were no problems, because I kept estro in check. The easiest way to keep estro in range, in my opinion, is to take a trt dose of test so like 175-250mg a week along with your tren. This provides enough estro to keep things functioning and you wont need an ai at this dose unless you're extremely estro sensitive. basically if you keep estro in range, you will be fine. I would, however keep caber on hand if it's your first run with tren just in case
 
I run low dosed t3 with tren to combat the elevation in TSh and subsequent elevation in prolactin and its effects on libido
 
prolactin is a useless hormone in the male body. there is no danger in slamming it down unless you have some sort of chronic masturbation problems where you would rip the skin off your dick

Haha good example and yes I agree prolactin is pointless in males, but the means by which you slam it down is very important. Dopamine agonists are not something to fuck around with they can have serious side effects. To keep my prolactin in check I use asin, zinc picolinate, and p5p-the active form of b6. Even with tren up to a gram a week it's kept me in range

And I know people will continue to use DAs unnecessarily but I hope they can at least consider other options. But hey, it's their body so it's up to them
 
^^^ Mucuna actually lowers prolactin naturally.. its one of the main ingredients in hcgenerate ES

Great, I'll have to look into that. Thanks for pointing that out. The main thing I wanted to get across to users was that dopamine agonists should not be taken lightly and should be a last resort.

Gonna go look into mucuna now. Have a good one!
 
That looks like a solid plan you have there. Something like 50mg/day of tren test and mast would be an excellent second cycle and would provide some very nice lean gains.



I found that post on another forum so I'll have to do some digging for the sources. But if and when I find them, I'll post them or pm them to you
Thanks a lot. That'd be much appreciated, brother.

Keep swinging that axe and eventually, whether it wants to or not, that tree will have to fall.
 
Haha good example and yes I agree prolactin is pointless in males, but the means by which you slam it down is very important. Dopamine agonists are not something to fuck around with they can have serious side effects. To keep my prolactin in check I use asin, zinc picolinate, and p5p-the active form of b6. Even with tren up to a gram a week it's kept me in range

And I know people will continue to use DAs unnecessarily but I hope they can at least consider other options. But hey, it's their body so it's up to them

Which sides? God you're spouting BS. People with prolactinomas often take high doses of DAs for years without any sides. And if you mention heart valve damage, then you REALLY have no clue what you're talking about.
 
Great, I'll have to look into that. Thanks for pointing that out. The main thing I wanted to get across to users was that dopamine agonists should not be taken lightly and should be a last resort.

Gonna go look into mucuna now. Have a good one!

A "last resort?" God, it's people like you who spout BS that cause the general public to be so misled. List of things worse for your health than Dopamine agonists:

1. AAS
2. T3
3. Clen
4. SERMs
5. AIs

Do you use any of these? Better save them as a last resort!
 
A "last resort?" God, it's people like you who spout BS that cause the general public to be so misled. List of things worse for your health than Dopamine agonists:

1. AAS
2. T3
3. Clen
4. SERMs
5. AIs

Do you use any of these? Better save them as a last resort!

I was going to mentio heart valve damage, and yes they use higher doses for longer times and can get heart valve damage, talking about Parkinson's patients. But there hasn't been studies on lower doses so just because the damage only occurred at higher doses does not mean that it can't happen at lower doses.

I know someone who used Prami for an entire 6 month blast of tren and now has trembling in their fingers due to excessive dopamine agonist use. So don't say there are no side effects.


And no shit there are other things we take that *can* be more dangerous. But why add another thing to that list unnecessarily. To your point ai, serm, t3, clen yes I only use as a last resort because I would I be using something that isn't needed? Aas obviously excluded from that list.
 
^^^ Mucuna actually lowers prolactin naturally.. its one of the main ingredients in hcgenerate ES
Thanks for the info steve. I don't take tren b/c i don't like how aggressive i get on it, neither does my ole' lady. I do take a lot of deca andd npp though.
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18625690

I stand corrected about the lower dose being able to cause heart valve damage.

Instead of derailing this thread anymore, I'll let everyone make their own educated choice if they want to use DAs.

One last thing, please look up dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome if curious about the potential sides of these.

Take care everyone
 
Thanks for the info steve. I don't take tren b/c i don't like how aggressive i get on it, neither does my ole' lady. I do take a lot of deca andd npp though.

I'm moody on 400 mg deca but calm on 700 mg tren ace go figure. Lol maby I just don't realize I'm being a total dick.
 
350mg/w is what i liked from robos tren a killed my workouts for 6 weeks. Weight went up on every lift robotren is where its at
 
I've been on 700/week and I am loving it.. Getting lean and dry as fuck. 2 weeks in.

Can't wait till about week 9
 
SD-
I handle tren really well. Plus the more I use, the more I buy from you! Only issues I've had is insomnia, and a sleeping pill fixed that.
 
Im a short fuse motherfucker on tren and break shit around the house
Buy i know i will always go back to the nectar again hahaha
 
SD-
Next time try low test, around 200-250mg/week

And keep the test moderate to high.

I haven't had any of the sides people talk about.
 
I feel really good on 400mg/wk of test. But when I get to the hard stuff like tren or anadrol I get a very strong, euphoric like feeling. Almost like a humble beast. Only way I can explain it.ha
 
The Power of DHT

First off, a basic explanation of DHT (Dihydrotestosterone); it is an androgen (male sex hormone), like Testosterone, which rather than promoting the growth of muscle mass directly (tissue-acting), it acts via intracellular (in the cell) mechanisms to increase strength and metabolism. DHT is not very anabolic, but it is Androgenic, and thus meaning, it promotes masculine characteristics (such as a deeper voice, and growth of facial hair, body hair etc) (1). DHT has a bad rap, since it has been claimed to cause an enlarged prostate, but if you follow the source, *most* of the studies saying this are linked to pharmaceutical promotion of their anti-prostate, anti-Male drug, Finasteride (Propecia) and Dustasteride(2) (3). DHT has also been claimed to cause your hair follicles to become thin, and your hair - subsequently falls out. No. Just No. DHT has been implicated as a factor at most, more studies show that more specifically it is Zinc deficiency AND genetics that provoke male pattern baldness (4)(5). Although Zinc deficiency causes the rise of DHT levels, it also causes increases in prolactin, and estrogen, thus the real problem here *could* have to do with either of those hormones. Just to clarify, Anti-ESTROGEN drugs have been used recently to treat prostate enlargement (BPH), and they are very successful, with less side-effects(6) (7) (8) (9). So if they were wrong about DHT causing prostate enlargement, maybe they were wrong about DHT and hair loss too.

DHT - HOW IT AFFECTS THE BRAIN - AND NERVOUS SYSTEM


But anyway, we got carried away. Let's go on to discuss DHT's effects in the Brain.
DHT has pronounced effects on neurochemistry (it affects neurotransmitters in the brain). DHT has been shown to increase circulating epinephrine levels (adrenaline), this can cause anxiety in predisposed individuals, however, most of the time, this is not the case, since DHT also increases GABA activity in the brain, which is relaxing (10) (11) (12). So in other words, DHT should promote A focused, calm burst of energy, which is what many users of DHT-based steroids, report as the "alpha-male" feeling (13) (14). Dihydrotestosterone increase central and nervous system energy production by increasing not just adrenaline, but cyclic AMP (15). This molecule increase thermogenesis (fat-burning and heat production)(16). Cyclic AMP facilitates the conversion of TSH thyroid hormone, to T4, a more potent thyroid hormone, thus, indirectly, DHT increases thyroid function (by increasing cyclic AMP) (17).

So seeing all this, DHT definitely acts as a nervous system stimulant, and a metabolic "probe", it also increases GABA. Second to this though, it could indirectly decrease serotonin or serotonin receptors; since DHT antagonizes estrogen activity, and estrogen helps maintain the expression of serotonin receptors in the brain(18) (19). This is also consistent with DHT being shown to stop estrogen induced prolactin release(20).
This is part of the reason behind using DHT Gel to treat gynecomasita. Clearly DHT has anti-depressant effects, since Finasteride causes depression (21) and also based on the above mentioned activity of DHT in the brain. It gives energy, it gives focus, it gives aggression.

DHT also improves spatial working memory(22), according to some studies, by altering NMDA-receptors(23) (namely increasing), and by improving Calcium-induced acetylcholine release & function in the hippocampus(24)(25); a very important area of the brain involved in memory formation and spatial (directional) memory.

DHT also decreases glutamate levels and excitory outputs through other mechanisms (26) (27) (28).


Finally, Dihydrotestosterone, or it's metabolite 3-alpha-Diol; downregulate alpha-adrenergic receptor distribution, leading to more inhibitory adrenergic (adrenaline influence)(29) (30) (31). For those who don't know, adrenaline can activate an 'alpha receptor' - which stimulates the nervous system, vasoconstricting blood vessels and arteries, raising blood pressure, or it can activate a beta-adrenergic receptor, generally vasodilating artieries, but yet, increasing heart contractile force. This all might just be another result or a reflection of what is mentioned above, that DHT increases epinephrine, GABA, and cyclic AMP. However, in a separate study, Testosterone (without specificity), had upregulated alpha-1-receptors to protect the heart against ischemia(32). Is this an effect of Testosterone or it's metabolites though. Likely, it doesn't matter, it was probably case coincidental, but may indicate that if blood pressure falls too low, Testosterone can increase it to maintain homeostasis.

In yet another study however, DHT has been shown to increase alpha-1-adrenergic expression, whereas Estrogen decreased the expression/density(33).
This again reflects the need for DHT and Estrogen to be kept in balance, as both promote vasodilation through different pathways, however, since Alpha-1-receptors are incredibly potent Vasoconstrictors, DHT + an OVERALL deficiency in nitric oxide may actually promote high blood pressure, especially in coordination with estrogen deficiency. Interestingly, Alpha-1-receptor activation may increase serotonin activity at the 5-HT1A receptor(34)(35), this is an auto-receptor that ironically seems to possess anxiolytic (serotonin-typical) effects. 5-HT1A activation has shown to help social anxiety disorder, but worsen anticipation anxieties(36)(37).
In another study, DHT/Androgens also facilitated serotonin 5-HT1A/1B agonist-decreases in aggression, which is controversial, although it appears that estrogen allows for intermale aggression by downregulating serotonin 5-HT1A/1B activity(38)(39). Thus DHT's only pro-aggressive propertly lies in it's adrenaline promoting effect, and not with serotonin.




So DHT via multiple pathways increases nervous system strength, DHT increases epinephrine levels, decreases prolactin (assuming you have enough dopamine production as well), increases GABA, may decrease serotonin and serotonin receptors. All-round this means DHT has positive effects on your chemistry and nerve cells. By reducing prolactin, and estrogen, and subsequently serotonin, and also regulating catecholamines, by this, DHT can definitely increase libido, and alleviate sexual anxiety in most individuals by increasing GABA. DHT is key to many of Testosterone's brain benefits. Keep in mind though, despite positive effects on brain chemistry, this still doesn't give an excuse to OD on aromatase inhibitors, likely, because you need a little bit of estrogen (not much at all), to promote nNOS (neuronal nitric oxide synthase) production. So DHT serves as a great compliment to a little bit of brain estradiol, and a great ratio of DHT to estrogen means optimal sex drive, stamina, charisma and general masculinity.


Let's summarize in Bullets Here.

DHT regulates alpha and beta adrenergic receptors.
DHT may increase alpha-1-receptor density.
DHT may decrease glutamate activity and increases mGLU7 expression (which increases GABA release)
DHT increases serotonin 5-HT1A receptor density by influencing A1-Adr.Receptors.
DHT promotes serotonin 5-HT1A/1B activity and may reduce aggression in the presence of serotonin. Although this may easily be over ridden by the pro-adrenergic effects of DHT.
DHT increases beta-endorphin release by ^ 5-HT1A receptor indirect activation.
DHT facilitates the release of Epinephrine (adrenaline).
DHT increases cyclic AMP.
DHT blocks estrogen-induced prolactin release.
DHT reduces serotonin and serotonin receptors by inhibiting estrogen influence in the Brain. (but mainly acting to oppose 5-HT2A,2C and 5-HT4 receptors)
DHT increases GABA and GABA-A (neurosteroid-specific) receptor expression.
DHT increases NMDA-receptors in the Hippocampus.
DHT increases Ca3 (Calcium) evoked Acetylcholine Function(AcH release).
DHT increases nervous system strength and regulates blood pressure.

Wow, great information! I knew I loved me some DHT for a reason.
 
I just had a post asking about them and gear head said they are not approved anymore

- - - Updated - - -

Wanted to order there deca but then I didn't realize I was reading a post from 2015
 
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