Starting new cycle - help me choose

[drippie]

I am jumping on my second cycle... 194lbs, 6'1 10%bf, training 17 years

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I have lots of gear on hand... here it is, all 10ml vials. (I can buy hcg for throughout the cycle if you guys think its that good)
Primo 200mg vials x 4
Primo 100mg vials x 2
EQ 300mg vials x 2
Test Cyp 250mg vials x 3
Test E 400mg vials x 1
Test prop 100mg vials x 3
dbol 25mg x 50
winstrol 25mg x 50
proviron 25mg x 50
--------------------------------------------------

How should I do this... I am thinking

option 1:
primo 800mg/week 1-16
eq 300mg/week 1-12
test p 450mg/week 1 - 4 front load
test e/c 250mg/week 1 - 12
test p 200mg/week 12 - 17 taper
week 18 pct

option 2:
primo 600mg/week 1-16
eq 300mg/week 1-12
test p 450mg/week 1 - 4 front load
test e/c 500/week 1 - 12
test p 200mg/week 12 - 17 taper
week 18 pct

What do you guys think? option 1, 2 or your suggestion

 

[muskate]

I would pick option 2. You need to add an AI to your cycle to keep your estrogen in the low-normal range. This will prevent estrogen related side effects like gyno and water retention. The best AI choice is aromasin because it is a suicide AI and there will be no estrogen rebound when you discontinue usage. 10mg EOD is a good dosage. You can order it from ag-guys.com.

You didn't mention what you plan on running as a PCT. You are going to be very shut down from a 17 week cycle. I would make sure to run a very good PCT, such as the perfect PCT protocol: http://www.evolutionary.org/the-perfect-post-cycle-therapy-pct/

 

[nvr2lt]

Muskate is a very knowledgeable trainer. As a matter of fact, I can't say I have met one as dedicated. It might help to state what your 1st cycle consisted of? However, even with that said, I always say the tortuous wins everytime. I would do just Test C/E @ 500mg/week and EQ @ 300mg/week. Don't forget your AI and the perfect pct Muskate included.

 

[TeeLab]

6'1" 194 lbs Training 17 years? How many cycles? Goals? And why would anyone taper?

 

[drippie]

First cycle was 500mg test e/ with dbol start. Ramped up to 750mg test e and ended with winny. Ran it about 14 weeks because I lost 3 weeks with the flu.

Ran first cycle Jan 2016. I'm 37yo. I did a full log of it on this site.

Don't really want to get into pct in this thread, just the cycle. But I do have tonnes of AI and anti e. TONNES

I straight up have a pharmacy here. I like hoarding the gear.

- - - Updated - - -

My rep could vouch for that on here, I order every week or two.

- - - Updated - - -

My rep could vouch for that on here, I order every week or two.

 

[nvr2lt]

Nothing wrong with hoarding for proactive purposes my brother. I kinda have the same theory. Muskate pretty much answered your question. Thanks for the added info. Hoping to see your next log now that I have the past cycle info.

 

[LevButlerov]

The second cycle looks much nicer to me - the dosages are more reasonable, and everything else looks good. As long as you got all of the ancillaries in line, this cycle is good to go. In fact, I am sure that you will get some very high quality lean gains with it.

 

[Masonic Bodybuilder]

I like the second cycle but for me 600mg EQ is the best. You will still really like it at 300mg though. Are you going to log this one as well?

 

[TeeLab]

First cycle was 500mg test e/ with dbol start. Ramped up to 750mg test e and ended with winny. Ran it about 14 weeks because I lost 3 weeks with the flu.

Ran first cycle Jan 2016. I'm 37yo. I did a full log of it on this site.

Don't really want to get into pct in this thread, just the cycle. But I do have tonnes of AI and anti e. TONNES

I straight up have a pharmacy here. I like hoarding the gear.

- - - Updated - - -

My rep could vouch for that on here, I order every week or two.

- - - Updated - - -

My rep could vouch for that on here, I order every week or two.

Just curious what was your before and after weight and bf% with your first cycle? I can't help but think you should be a lot heavier after 17 years of training! Are you trying to put on more size or just be a lean 200 or something?
Personally I ran EQ at 300 and if I ran it again I would go 600.

 

[TeeLab]

By the way tapering up I understand, I thought you meant tapering down at the end.

 

[Jay Scott]

I am jumping on my second cycle... 194lbs, 6'1 10%bf, training 17 years

--------------------------------------------------
I have lots of gear on hand... here it is, all 10ml vials. (I can buy hcg for throughout the cycle if you guys think its that good)
Primo 200mg vials x 4
Primo 100mg vials x 2
EQ 300mg vials x 2
Test Cyp 250mg vials x 3
Test E 400mg vials x 1
Test prop 100mg vials x 3
dbol 25mg x 50
winstrol 25mg x 50
proviron 25mg x 50
--------------------------------------------------

How should I do this... I am thinking

option 1:
primo 800mg/week 1-16
eq 300mg/week 1-12
test p 450mg/week 1 - 4 front load
test e/c 250mg/week 1 - 12
test p 200mg/week 12 - 17 taper
week 18 pct

option 2:
primo 600mg/week 1-16
eq 300mg/week 1-12
test p 450mg/week 1 - 4 front load
test e/c 500/week 1 - 12
test p 200mg/week 12 - 17 taper
week 18 pct

What do you guys think? option 1, 2 or your suggestion

I would do option 2, however I would not do the front loading with test p, or just make it shorter to 1-2, otherwise there will be a lot of fluctuations of test levels.

Keep in mind you need to get some AI as well, you dont want to get dem gyno

 

[drippie]

Just curious what was your before and after weight and bf% with your first cycle? I can't help but think you should be a lot heavier after 17 years of training! Are you trying to put on more size or just be a lean 200 or something?
Personally I ran EQ at 300 and if I ran it again I would go 600.

I think starting weight was 182, ending weight was 197. I got up to 205 during that one (ty dbol) but got really sick. The flu actually got me shredded, couldn't eat for weeks but the test-e protected my muscle pretty well.

My natty weight is 182. If I REALLY try, I mean life dedication stuff, I cant get to 192 natty. Very thin bone structure means light frame but when I put mass on even at 195lbs, Im fairly jacked. 205lbs my wife said enough's enough lol

Not going to log this one but I will give tonnes of feedback to weekly primo/eq posts.

**I would bump EQ to 600 but this is a tonne of oil being injected, any more guys think it would really benefical?

Im going with option 2! Bit more test, little less primo - trying to up the EQ. Thanks guys. Anymore advice welcome.

 

[drippie]

** Before % was about 16%, got down to 10-11%

I really should be heavier. I have a seasonal business that just crushes me in the summer, 80 hour work weeks kills the body.

The goal is to try and change my body composition to permanently be around 200-210lbs, 10-12% BF.

 

[TeeLab]

Well drip I hate to break it to you but you should have been able to get heavier BEFORE you touched gear, and you sure as hell should have put on more than 15 lbs by the time you were done with that cycle. Now you are back to 194 say we can really only say you put on 12 lbs after getting up to 750 test! I am willing to bet that your biggest problem right now is your diet. I guarantee you could gain another 10 lbs right now naturally if your diet was on point. Drugs will not put on the size without the nutrition. If you are working 80 hours you have to take that into account when you plan your macros. I'm guessing it's manual labor so you have to eat all of those calories back ON TOP of what you need to eat to be in a caloric surplus for gaining muscle.

 

[drippie]

Well drip I hate to break it to you but you should have been able to get heavier BEFORE you touched gear, and you sure as hell should have put on more than 15 lbs by the time you were done with that cycle. Now you are back to 194 say we can really only say you put on 12 lbs after getting up to 750 test! I am willing to bet that your biggest problem right now is your diet. I guarantee you could gain another 10 lbs right now naturally if your diet was on point. Drugs will not put on the size without the nutrition. If you are working 80 hours you have to take that into account when you plan your macros. I'm guessing it's manual labor so you have to eat all of those calories back ON TOP of what you need to eat to be in a caloric surplus for gaining muscle.

No question my biggest problem is diet. Isn't that the hardest part of this lifestyle?

 

[Grillmaster78]

I am jumping on my second cycle... 194lbs, 6'1 10%bf, training 17 years

--------------------------------------------------
I have lots of gear on hand... here it is, all 10ml vials. (I can buy hcg for throughout the cycle if you guys think its that good)
Primo 200mg vials x 4
Primo 100mg vials x 2
EQ 300mg vials x 2
Test Cyp 250mg vials x 3
Test E 400mg vials x 1
Test prop 100mg vials x 3
dbol 25mg x 50
winstrol 25mg x 50
proviron 25mg x 50
--------------------------------------------------

How should I do this... I am thinking

option 1:
primo 800mg/week 1-16
eq 300mg/week 1-12
test p 450mg/week 1 - 4 front load
test e/c 250mg/week 1 - 12
test p 200mg/week 12 - 17 taper
week 18 pct

option 2:
primo 600mg/week 1-16
eq 300mg/week 1-12
test p 450mg/week 1 - 4 front load
test e/c 500/week 1 - 12
test p 200mg/week 12 - 17 taper
week 18 pct

What do you guys think? option 1, 2 or your suggestion

Option #2. But, instead of Test P 1-4 why not cut it to weeks 1-2 and double your back end dose?

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Screw the "taper", your own bodies test levels will be in the toilet by then so you will need the same pct if u taper or not.

 

[TeeLab]

No question my biggest problem is diet. Isn't that the hardest part of this lifestyle?

Some would say it is. Order of operations. #1 Nutriton. Get then diet down, hit your macro/calorie goals every day, then move one to #2 Training. Nail the training. Commit. Don't miss a workout. Make sure you are getting enough sleep. Do both of these for YEARS and THEN move on to #3 Drugs. Do the research. Learn the risks, protocols, and cycles. Once you have nailed your diet and training THEN you can take advantage of #3. Without 1 and 2 you are wasting your time.

 

[Grillmaster78]

Some would say it is. Order of operations. #1 Nutriton. Get then diet down, hit your macro/calorie goals every day, then move one to #2 Training. Nail the training. Commit. Don't miss a workout. Make sure you are getting enough sleep. Do both of these for YEARS and THEN move on to #3 Drugs. Do the research. Learn the risks, protocols, and cycles. Once you have nailed your diet and training THEN you can take advantage of #3. Without 1 and 2 you are wasting your time.

Hey let's be honest here, if your taking quality gear we all know your diet can be crap consisting of double cheeseburgers and fries, you hit the gym hard for an hour a day and you will see great results. Meaning you will Def get bigger and stronger. With being older and wanting to cut its a different story trying to loos the belly wanting ur 6 pack again when u were 23.

When I was 23 on gear I couldn't eat enough, I ate everything and still got ripped. now that I'm 38 I can't see my abs without my chicken breast diet and it blows.

 

[TeeLab]

Hey let's be honest here, if your taking quality gear we all know your diet can be crap consisting of double cheeseburgers and fries, you hit the gym hard for an hour a day and you will see great results. Meaning you will Def get bigger and stronger. With being older and wanting to cut its a different story trying to loos the belly wanting ur 6 pack again when u were 23.

When I was 23 on gear I couldn't eat enough, I ate everything and still got ripped. now that I'm 38 I can't see my abs without my chicken breast diet and it blows.

Well by NUTRITION and hit your macro/calorie goal I don't necessarily mean eat chicken and rice all day. Putting nutrition first means tracking your macros and hitting goals. If you are a skinny guy who can eat cheeseburgers and fries then great. But that doesn't mean you are hitting your protein and calorie intake requirements for your goals. This guy is hitting 80 hrs a week in work. Maybe he can stop by QT in the morning, McDonald's for lunch, and eat whatever the fuck when he gets home for dinner. That still doesn't guarantee eating at least 500 calories over TDEE and getting over 200g protein. Most people will over estimate how many calories they are eating. Especially when eating whatever you want/fast foods you will load up on a lot of fat calories and feel full but not hit proper protein intake. Being honest? Yes that is what I am doing. I'm the guy who can eat a whole pizza and still have some definition in the morning. But I didn't start putting on weight and gaining more muscle till I started tracking what I ate and hitting that high caloric and protein intake daily. Just my experience/opinion.