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Silverghost99
New member
Will keep that in mind, Thanks Krazie
- Status
Will keep that in mind, Thanks Krazie
Loadcoil78
Buff Brother
Wow 2500 posts
Ok. I'll go with 3/10. If my math looks right then I'm out of questions
Silverghost99
New member
Krazie/Matty - I've received Quotation for raws from kevin, not sure its a scammer. Can I pm you guys the email ad I received it from
Yeah sure bud
krazieone56
New Member
Ya adjust accordingly more carrier less bb.
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Yeah I figured. I always use PVDF. Some people say PVDF can't handle EO, but I've NEVER seen any issues with it. Then again I've never seen PVDF be used wth 100% EO though. And yeah, I've always heard about that high of concentrations of EO sticking the stopper.
Yeah pre-filtering and then running it through the main filter is definitely the best thing to do. If you have clean, high quality ingredients it won't be that bad. But if you have shitty quality, the 0.45 will be almost black and the 0.22 will look like a shit stain lol. I've seen some people post some really dark pictures of the filters post filtration. If I was that person, I wouldn't inject that shit if it was that dirty. If the filters are catching a ton of shit at that size, I can't even imagine what smaller things are making it through.
Yes, they're packaged sterile so you can open them and use them. But its been a while since I've used the disposable filtration systems bro. I invested in a re-usable one thats all glass that I just sterilize in my autoclave.
Its not a bad idea to keep anything that's opened in an alcohol bath until you use it though!!!
When you guys mention Crash , are you referring to crystallization ? or actual degradation of the hormone?
I see lot of you have tried to run some very high concentration gear experiments. [ T-800 ?? Snake Venom? Fck thinking abt the pip makes me cringe ].
Crashing means the carrier oil and ingredients can't contain the high concentration of the hormones, so it "crashes" out of them. This is when you generally need to adjust the solvents until it stays and doesn't crash.
When it crashes post-injection, that means it fell out of the carrier oil, and if the hormone has a high melting point, THEN it crystallizes in your muscles (and hurts like a mother fucker).
Snake venom? What dosage/ML is that?
Yeah that's a decent starting point. Some people like to start with 2% BA, but to each their own.
But as Krazi said (and he's an excellent brewer), just adjust it as you need. If it doesn't hold, then use a little more. Just don't try to put a shit ton in it at once. Slowly increase it as you need, until it stays.
Then it would be a good idea to write the recipe down. Remember, each individual ingredient influences how well the end solution holds the hormones and everything! A simple change from GSO to Safflower can make it so less solvents are required (thinner oils can't hold higher concentrations of gear). So if you're having a really hard time with high concentrations, I suggest you add a thicker oil (safflower is one of my favorites that are easily attainable) -- or just switch entirely to a thicker oil.
krazieone56
New Member
Snake venom - is 100mg tren no ester 50mg test no ester per ml. It will change your life. Lol.
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
krazieone56
New Member
It was a collaboration between me and bobs your uncle. We called it snake venom because it burned like a motherfucker when u shot it and then the next day it felt like u got bit by a rattler. I have since perfected it tho to be damn near painless.
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Silverghost99
New member
krazieone56
New Member
I'm making it in a few days so I just might 
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KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
SimplyScarlet
New member
I'm making it in a few days so I just might
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Making anything else interesting?
Hahahaha. What have you done to make it near painless? What alterations did you require?
Z28blak
Banned
I'm wondering the same thing, though I'm assuming oil based.
krazieone56
New Member
Yes oil based.
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Narko514
Growing Brother
Been working retarded schedules (Yay for being a Rig hand.) Luckily I still managed to get a workout at work and go to the gym after with a coworker. Been off for about 4 months now, but getting some goodies done up for my next one. For now, 150mg/ml Tren A in EO. Going to also make a batch of 100mg/ml Test P, and some oil based Winny.
Silverghost99
New member
That amber colour looks nice. 150mg/ml - good concentration. how much did you brew up
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wowstrongarms
New Member
Been working retarded schedules (Yay for being a Rig hand.) Luckily I still managed to get a workout at work and go to the gym after with a coworker. Been off for about 4 months now, but getting some goodies done up for my next one. For now, 150mg/ml Tren A in EO. Going to also make a batch of 100mg/ml Test P, and some oil based Winny.
Oil based winny? Good luck. I used 50/50 EO/GSO and 25% guic before I could get it to hold at 50mg/ml. Def use 100% EO and start with maybe 15% guic.
Oh yea, good luck filtering it if it isn't a very small batch. Using pvdf it'll eat through a bottle top once about 80ml has gone through
Have you ever used an oil other than GSO? GSO is extremely thin. Oil based winny has been done and didn't require nearly that many solvents/co-solvents. Though a thicker oil was used.
And I've never used 100% EO with PVDF, so I don't know if 100% will eat PVDF, but I KNOW PTFE can handle it. And the most I've seen is ~70% EO with PVDF, and it did fine. But again, I wouldn't know about anything higher.
Narko514
Growing Brother
Only made 40 ml as I have never made anything more than 100mg/ml. But so far it's holding good. I usually don't use any BB, just 3% BA but seeing I went with a higher concentration I played it safe and went 3% and 15% BA/BB. Also going straight EO. There definitely is a difference from my usual 100mg/ml batches, which are usually gold in color, this has a darker amber hint to it.
Wow that's alot of guaiacol. I haven't made oil based winny before. So this will be a pretty fun experement. Have done both injectable adrol and dbol and have both came out great, though the melting point is attainable by boiling water. I'll have to heat up the winny and SS using the stove top or oven for it to break down properly. When I get around to it I'll post some result pics. Is there a chance you may have used too much BA in your solution? Because I have heard of that crashing winny, regardless the amount of guaiacol present.
Wow that's alot of guaiacol. I haven't made oil based winny before. So this will be a pretty fun experement. Have done both injectable adrol and dbol and have both came out great, though the melting point is attainable by boiling water. I'll have to heat up the winny and SS using the stove top or oven for it to break down properly. When I get around to it I'll post some result pics. Is there a chance you may have used too much BA in your solution? Because I have heard of that crashing winny, regardless the amount of guaiacol present.
wowstrongarms
New Member
All the recipes I found all used GSO. Though they claimed 100% GSO with only 10-15% guic. I just don't believe they legitimately brewed it, and if they did it was not good winny.
100% EO goes fine with pvdf. It's the guic that was the issue.
No, standard 2% BA.
Almost every recipe I see uses GSO. Its the most commonly used carrier oil, and I have no fucking clue why its used for high concentrations. Its good if you want a thin shot, but its shit for high concentrations. But most homebrewers don't dig deep enough to understand such things unfortunately. So they'll continue using far more solvents than they truly need for high concentrations in thin oils.
And that's good to know for the PVDF filters -- like I said I've never seen 100% used. But yeah... Gui is a super-solvent, and at that % its not a surprise that it would fuck with the filters. Honestly, I can't EVER imagine needing more than 2-5% MAX with other solvents present. If no other solvents/co-solvents were present, I can understand higher concentrations of Gui. Sometimes I think people don't understand how powerful it truly is and just dump in a lot and hope it works.
wowstrongarms
New Member
I started with 10% and worked up in increments of 5 til I got it to hold for a couple days. It would fall out of solution within hours until I was at 20. Then it fell out overnight and 25 did the trick
Do you plan on making anymore sometime soon? If so, try Safflower oil. I'd really love to hear how it goes when you use a thicker oil. High-Oleic Safflower is pretty much the best in that regard. MCT is excellent as well (fractionated coconut preferably). If I were a betting man, I'd have to say I bet you wouldn't need NEARLY as many solvents. I really think it would be a great thing to post about so we can hear about it, if you do it anytime soon again.
I'd do it myself if I was going to use it, but I have absolutely no use for it in any foreseeable cycles. And none of my friends irl know what I do, so it'd just sit around. And all of my equipment is for larger quantities (when I brew, I generally make several months worth for myself at a time, per hormone). So just doing 20ML or something would be a waste of my filters and what not. Plus I wouldn't want to have to buy PTFE in case it required Gui, for such a small test.
But I think it could help a lot of people if you post how it goes and all using a thicker oil. It would certainly be greatly appreciated
.
krazieone56
New Member
Nice
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Julz03
New member
Packages arrived just on time ��
Sent from BLACK WIDOW HEADQUARTERS
Holy Shit.
Merry Christmas....haha
Silverghost99
New member
Packages arrived just on time ��
Sent from BLACK WIDOW HEADQUARTERS
Bro you gotta hook me up with some of those raws
Your pm is full as always. Popular guy.
AVP
Growing Brother
Have anyone make injectable anadrol here with GSO? Any experience mate here for a good recipe 50mg/ml, I don't want to use EO, I have done injectable Dianabol successful with GSO in the past, wondering if I can make the same with adrol now
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AVP
Growing Brother
Narko514
Growing Brother
Last batch I made was a 25mg/ml Dbol in GSO. I used the following:
Oil: 15ml
BA: 1ml
BB: 1ml
SS (Guaiacol): 2ml
Powder: 1g
Basically you want a 5/5% ratio for BA/BB and a 2% for your Guaiacol. This holds all my injectable orals great. I plan to do the same thing for winstrol but will not go past a 1% for BA and obviously break down the powder and SS using a greater heat source other than boiling.
Oil: 15ml
BA: 1ml
BB: 1ml
SS (Guaiacol): 2ml
Powder: 1g
Basically you want a 5/5% ratio for BA/BB and a 2% for your Guaiacol. This holds all my injectable orals great. I plan to do the same thing for winstrol but will not go past a 1% for BA and obviously break down the powder and SS using a greater heat source other than boiling.
AVP
Growing Brother
That is for 40ml right? I can do this without guaiacol bro? It's hard to find that shit here
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AVP
Growing Brother
AVP
Growing Brother
bobsyouruncle
Buff Brother
How bout water based dbol and or anadrol suspension?
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krazieone56
New Member
I would try it like a test suspension. 3% ba 20% bb and distilled water. With a smidge of lidocaine
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bobsyouruncle
Buff Brother
I would try it like a test suspension. 3% ba 20% bb and distilled water. With a smidge of lidocaine
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
I'll give it a try but I'll prob only brew 10ml of each to see how the lildo feels
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krazieone56
New Member
For sure make a small sample size and see.
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Do you take all of your gear to boiling when brewing? Or just until it melts/mixes?
I would try it like a test suspension. 3% ba 20% bb and distilled water. With a smidge of lidocaine
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Do you use lidocaine? or injectable aspirin? I've heard great things about injectable aspirin (I believe its called Benzyl Salicylate).
krazieone56
New Member
I heat till melted. Keeping it warm to hot but not boil. Boiling can cause ba to cook off.
I did experiment with adding 1cc of lidocaine to each bottle of suspension. Interesting to say the least but not have to
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
I did experiment with adding 1cc of lidocaine to each bottle of suspension. Interesting to say the least but not have to
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Narko514
Growing Brother
I don't bring it to boiling point, but to an extent close enough to ensure it breaks down properly, especially when brewing tren.
Yeah you and I have discussed it bro. I was asking what Narko does for his brewing.
And you should try the Benzyl Salicylate bro, since you're looking for something along those lines. I'd be really interested in hearing if its beneficial. I may do some test with it later, myself.
Especially with brewing tren? Does yours turn out dark? It has a melting point of 94-97C... and Tren is EXTREMELY susceptible to oxidation damage (degradation) from overheating. The darker the Tren, the more oxidation damage it has gone through (a lot of people don't know this -- so dark Tren means its been damaged, and I have seen some labs sell DARK Tren before lol). I'm extremely careful with any of them, but Tren should always be treated the most carefully imho...
krazieone56
New Member
Never heard of it. I would have to check it out
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Narko514
Growing Brother
Which is exactly why I double filter tren with .2 filter rather than bake it, it'll ruin it. My tren usually ends up a golden color or amber depending on solvents and potency. What I was implying was tren tends to take a little longer to break down then Test or other powders, so I make sure I get it to mix real good before removing it from heat. But you're right in everything you say, Tren definitely needs to be handled a little more carefully.
krazieone56
New Member
Well yes all compounds have diff melting points but why double filter. U don't need to do that. One filtering is good. With a good filter
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Narko514
Growing Brother
I'm a tad bit OCD. I just always double filter my Tren. Everything else I'm ok with passing it once.
krazieone56
New Member
I guess. Filtering only removes particles from ur compound. Not sterilize so really if u filter once u got it all. The second is really for fun as there is nothing to filter out
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KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
bobsyouruncle
Buff Brother
Not really... You're supposed to use 2 different sized filters. One for larger, gross particulates. The second for the smaller, finer particulates that the 1st one didn't catch. This is actually very much recommended and how pharma companies do their filtering (though they do their filtering under nitrogen pressure and a few other things lol).
What? If you're using the same size filter yes... But like mentioned earlier, you should be using 2 different size filters for different sized particulates.
krazieone56
New Member
I'm sorry no offense but that makes no fucking sense bro.
If you filter through a .22 the FIRST time. You will catch ALL particulates. Why would u filter w a .45 to catch large parts and then redo for smaller ones when the .22 will catch large and small. I'm sorry but I totally disagree w what ur saying.
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
If you filter through a .22 the FIRST time. You will catch ALL particulates. Why would u filter w a .45 to catch large parts and then redo for smaller ones when the .22 will catch large and small. I'm sorry but I totally disagree w what ur saying.
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
bobsyouruncle
Buff Brother
I'm sure that works with a large bottletop but if you're using syringe filters a first time run through a .22 will almost definitely clog it and then you have to swap in a new filter anyway now with that being said a .45 should be sufficient I have used some awesome gear that has only had one run through a .45 filter and I had no issues
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wowstrongarms
New Member
Efficiency is the only reason. I would imagine it'd be quicker to push 500ml through a .45 then a .22 rather than cram it all through .22. Then again, anyone filtering that much prob has moved on to peristaltic pumps, so it's a moot point either way.
krazieone56
New Member
I have never ever had that happen. Ever.
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
I suppose its just a general precaution that I (and some others) decide to take. And I've never had a 0.22 clog completely or anything like that, but I simply like the idea of getting rid of the gross particulates that a 0.45 filter would handle, and then let 0.22 handle the smaller ones (it seriously allows it to be more efficient -- the more large shit that clogs the 0.22, the slower it goes).
I handle large quantities for myself at a time (as I've said before, I try to handle a large amount for myself each time, so it'll last me a while), so I just prefer this route. Though I'm certainly not doing something like a kilo of each substance or something lol. In general, I try to duplicate the pharmaceutical production protocol where I can (though obviously I can't do some things, because the equipment just isn't practical for a homebrewer, too costly, etc). If it works for a pharma and its top quality and sterility, then I find it good enough for myself to follow. They even start with a 1.5 micron filter, then move to the 0.45, then to the 0.22. But obviously they handle far larger quantities so this allows a smoother operation without having to replace the smaller filters more frequently. I don't do nearly enough for a 1.5 to make a big difference in efficiency.
I handle large quantities for myself at a time (as I've said before, I try to handle a large amount for myself each time, so it'll last me a while), so I just prefer this route. Though I'm certainly not doing something like a kilo of each substance or something lol. In general, I try to duplicate the pharmaceutical production protocol where I can (though obviously I can't do some things, because the equipment just isn't practical for a homebrewer, too costly, etc). If it works for a pharma and its top quality and sterility, then I find it good enough for myself to follow. They even start with a 1.5 micron filter, then move to the 0.45, then to the 0.22. But obviously they handle far larger quantities so this allows a smoother operation without having to replace the smaller filters more frequently. I don't do nearly enough for a 1.5 to make a big difference in efficiency.
krazieone56
New Member
I'm still not seeing the efficiency of filtering twice. Lol. It just doesnt make sense. Its a wasted move and a waste of a filter.
Furthermore, I don't feel that for the new guys starting out that they should get it in their heads u need to filter twice. Because u don't.
If you do it properly the first time.
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Furthermore, I don't feel that for the new guys starting out that they should get it in their heads u need to filter twice. Because u don't.
If you do it properly the first time.
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
biggamestop
New member
I thought dio said he filters 3x
krazieone56
New Member
Are u talking about the triple filtered gso he uses?
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KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
He claims his oil is triple filtered, like the oil itself not the actual compounding process. That's at least how I took it.
biggamestop
New member
Maybe I just seen somewhere he mentioned 3x filter
biggamestop
New member
Just filter it with a dirty sock it will be fine.
Wuhhhht hahaha.
krazieone56
New Member
Well OK, I wasn't going to tell anyone this but what the hell my secret to great gear is I backfill a 100ml syringe. That has a cotton ball soaked in strawberry soda shoved in it and filter that way. No pip. What so ever. Works every time.
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
biggamestop
New member
Wow sure u not still drunk from last night?
I don't drink but clearly I breathed in too much iso90 and became intoxicated because we are now using socks and soda as filters ha
Narko514
Growing Brother
muahahahahahaha
wowstrongarms
New Member
Sounds like a good marketing gimmick, but it means absolutely nothing as far as the user is concerned. The only thing pre filtered gso means is quicker filter time once its brewed, and potentially clogging up fewer filters.
If it fits through a .22 filter, then it's smaller than .22. Filtering it again would not catch anything further.
Narko514
Growing Brother
krazieone56
New Member
Honestly, why buy a syringe filter at $4 each she. U can buy a bottle top filter for $10. Its a lot easier. It really is. Unless ur filtering suspension in water which is easy to filter.
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wowstrongarms
New Member
This. No reason to go syringe filter route, unless you are making like 20ml. It's literally only like 20 bucks more expensive(hand pump) to use bottle tops, and hell, you may already have a hand pump lying around.
It comes down to how the individual feels tbh. Until the end of the 1960's, the 0.45 micron filter was the industry standard -- which is sufficient to remove the majority of bacteria. However, when certain bacterias (certain ones from the Pseudomonas family, etc) were found to pass through the 0.45, the 0.22 micron filer became the industry standard. However, as I have mentioned before, while the 0.22 micron filter is excellent for handling contaminants, bacteria, etc -- it still can't catch everything. As a matter of fact, I'll later list some of the things that 0.22 micron filters can't filter out due to size.
But as I said, it comes down to how the individual feels. And I just feel that my filtering protocol that starts with a 0.45 micron filter and then ends with a 0.22 micron filter makes it more efficient, and if nothing else, it makes me feel better (though I know adding the pre-filter doesn't improve what was caught with the 0.22). But then again, I'm one of the extreme few on this forum with an autoclave, high-end filter assembly, sterile area, etc.
Also, a quicker filter through the 0.22 can help prevent certain nasty little issues.
So perhaps instead of saying it isn't required or something, we should say that some of what we cover is an example of doing everything possible for top quality and sterility, and then some other examples are more for efficiency and a quick job.
Don't forget, there are even those that still filter their gear with syringe filters before using it (which is highly advised if you don't know how sterile the gear truly is)! I feel its never right to consider extra caution as incorrect or not necessary.
Yeah I've seen this said before as well.
And I don't think he said it was the carrier oil that was filtered 3x... Maybe I remember incorrectly, but I'm fairly sure he said his gear was filtered 3x. Which if its the same sized filter, obviously that's just a marketing tactic to make people feel his products are more sterile than others, or an example that he's willing to do more than others to deliver a better product (like when people say their vodka is distilled 15x or something... After a certain point it really doesn't do anything beneficial). It makes his products sound better. He could also be saying he uses 3 different sized filters... Going from largest to smallest. Which is standard for Pharma production (1.5->0.45->0.22). Either way, it definitely doesn't negatively impact people's opinion of his product from what I see.
Awesome. I tried this before, but with grape soda... It didn't make a big difference. But now I see where I fucked up. I need to try strawberry next time. Are you sure strawberry is superior to orange though? I've heard excellent things about orange soda.
Pretty much. But I'm sure he knows this, so I'm more inclined to believe he uses 3 different filter sizes rather than just use the same sized filter 3x.
@ both quotes above -- Dead on. Syringe filters are really only beneficial if you are filtering tiny quantities, or already have them lying around and need to use them. But if its a decent amount to be filtered at all, I absolutely agree with using either a filter assembly, or the disposable bottle top filter units. They don't cost much more, and work far better (as you 2 already said).
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wowstrongarms
New Member
I used syringe filters once, and only once. I started with bottle tops, but wanted to brew just a few vials of mast e. Dear god, never again. I almost threw the filter and the mast out my window.
0-400ml bottle top filters all the way. Over 400 and canister filters are the only way. Those bad boys push 1000ml's of test e like no ones business
AVP
Growing Brother
Guys to much talk for filterng shit, you put it on a bottle top 0.22 or 0.45 and its done, when I start brewing at the basic ones 12 years back, I have meet a guy in my gym that inject the gear straight from the beaker, he holds the gear 2-3 months in the beaker exposed to air dust everything, he didn't have ether infections even anything else, I see him last night and talk a little about brewing he is making the same shit again and no problem at all mates! I don't say he is right, sure he is not but the men's body it's not to weak in bacteria and infections!!! Choose a filter, filtering once, keep it in a sterile vial and it's done ;-)
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Also, I said I would list some of the shit that 0.22 micron filters won't catch. Hopefully this will benefit some of the people that are just thinking about getting into homebrewing (and perhaps there are even some you that have been doing it and didn't know some of this).
As stated before, the 0.22 micron filter is the industry standard and has been since the late 1960's (the 0.45 micron filter was the standard before). It was moved to the 0.22 filter when new bacterias were discovered that would pass through the 0.45 filter easily. And while no filter will be able to filter everything perfectly, the 0.22 was definitely a necessary upgrade (since it removes more risks), and a great pore size for what we do. However, there are limitations as to what it can and can't catch. Here are some of the things that it won't catch.
As some of you may already know, there are certain extremely tiny bacteria that are very difficult to catch. These are generally referred to as "Diminutive Bacteria". These are very rare, but are still a possibility to run into. Some examples are Hydrogenophaga pseudoflava, Burkholderia pickettii, Bacillus licheniformis, etc etc.
Furthermore, you should NEVER re-use filters. I've been asked about this before, and let me be extremely clear why. A nasty little thing called "bacteria growthrough" can occur. This is where replicating bacteria actually grows WITHIN/THROUGH the pores of the filter! Allow me to be completely clear that this allows LARGER bacteria to go through -- not just tiny strains. So bacteria that would normally not be an issue to catch with such filter sizes suddenly can become a serious issue. I'm not entirely sure how quickly it can occur, but I'm comfortable to say as long as you don't re-use filters and don't just let the gear sit on the filter for a long time, it shouldn't be an issue. Obviously there will be exceptions, but this should keep you pretty safe from such occurrences. (Krazie, this is one reason why I like to use a pre-filter, so it doesn't take so long with the 0.22 filter -- I know its splitting hairs, but it does matter to me).
Heavy metals: are too small to be caught in a 0.22 micron filter. So if the powder has heavy metals in it, don't expect the filter to remove them. It will contaminate the end product just as bad.
Pesticide/Herbicides: Pretty much all of them are too small to be caught with a 0.22 micron filter. I think there are a few that are large enough, but I honestly haven't dug enough to figure this out completely.
Shit that can cause illness: Every single type of virus is too small for a 0.22 micron filter.
Endotoxins/Pryogens (nasty shit from bacteria): Endotoxins are sometimes responsible for certain illnesses (botulism poisoning, etc), and Pryogens are generally responsible for causing fevers. You can't filter either of these out.
I'm sure all of you already know, but if there is another substance/drug mixed with the hormone you are making, a filter won't remove it. This is good if you're making a blend, but bad if something else accidentally somehow gets in. Again, I'm sure most of you knew this though.
As stated before, the 0.22 micron filter is the industry standard and has been since the late 1960's (the 0.45 micron filter was the standard before). It was moved to the 0.22 filter when new bacterias were discovered that would pass through the 0.45 filter easily. And while no filter will be able to filter everything perfectly, the 0.22 was definitely a necessary upgrade (since it removes more risks), and a great pore size for what we do. However, there are limitations as to what it can and can't catch. Here are some of the things that it won't catch.
As some of you may already know, there are certain extremely tiny bacteria that are very difficult to catch. These are generally referred to as "Diminutive Bacteria". These are very rare, but are still a possibility to run into. Some examples are Hydrogenophaga pseudoflava, Burkholderia pickettii, Bacillus licheniformis, etc etc.
Furthermore, you should NEVER re-use filters. I've been asked about this before, and let me be extremely clear why. A nasty little thing called "bacteria growthrough" can occur. This is where replicating bacteria actually grows WITHIN/THROUGH the pores of the filter! Allow me to be completely clear that this allows LARGER bacteria to go through -- not just tiny strains. So bacteria that would normally not be an issue to catch with such filter sizes suddenly can become a serious issue. I'm not entirely sure how quickly it can occur, but I'm comfortable to say as long as you don't re-use filters and don't just let the gear sit on the filter for a long time, it shouldn't be an issue. Obviously there will be exceptions, but this should keep you pretty safe from such occurrences. (Krazie, this is one reason why I like to use a pre-filter, so it doesn't take so long with the 0.22 filter -- I know its splitting hairs, but it does matter to me).
Heavy metals: are too small to be caught in a 0.22 micron filter. So if the powder has heavy metals in it, don't expect the filter to remove them. It will contaminate the end product just as bad.
Pesticide/Herbicides: Pretty much all of them are too small to be caught with a 0.22 micron filter. I think there are a few that are large enough, but I honestly haven't dug enough to figure this out completely.
Shit that can cause illness: Every single type of virus is too small for a 0.22 micron filter.
Endotoxins/Pryogens (nasty shit from bacteria): Endotoxins are sometimes responsible for certain illnesses (botulism poisoning, etc), and Pryogens are generally responsible for causing fevers. You can't filter either of these out.
I'm sure all of you already know, but if there is another substance/drug mixed with the hormone you are making, a filter won't remove it. This is good if you're making a blend, but bad if something else accidentally somehow gets in. Again, I'm sure most of you knew this though.
Hahaha yeah... If you use syringe filters you REALLY need to use a caulk gun for them. And even then they suck. But there's no way in hell I'd ever use my bare hands for syringe filters. I don't know why more people don't do something like that (caulk gun), I've heard far too many stories of people bruising their hands/fingers from it and what not.
Canister filters? Like the ones used for aquariums? I've never heard of those used for gear filtering lol. Whats the difference between those and just using a solid glass filter assembly with an automatic electric pump?
Bro, that may be completely acceptable to some people, but I think more safe practices are better to discuss for the people that are new to homebrewing and what not. Obviously if someone wants to do that straight from the bottle and what not, that's their decision. But I don't think that's the sort of information we should be putting out there for new people to learn and think is flat out acceptable (and even the "clean norm") or something bro.
I'm surprised to hear you say that bro! We use some of the same equipment, and it always seemed that you really care about how sterile your gear is!
And what's so wrong with discussions with filtering? Its great information for people to know! I just happen to know a lot because I've been dealing with certain forms of filtration since before I got into homebrewing. So I've always known a good amount about it.
AVP
Growing Brother
Hey man, of curse I don't want a newby to damage his self from that shit, but it's not like NASA or astrophysics to sterile and filter your fucking gear, that I wanted to say, and yes I sterilize mine with same equipment as yours but we are not astronauts to do that right? hehehehe
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Haha yeah I was givin you a hard time bro. I was saying I know you care about quality. And yeah definitely, it doesn't take much intelligence/knowledge behind what all this. But I'm just one of those people that wants to understand the WHY behind it all, you know? So sometimes I like to post some of that information for people that also want to know.
And hey bro, you got anything planned soon? I'm planning on doing some Test E/C soon.
AVP
Growing Brother
Last week I did Boldenon, tren E, test C, yesterday injectable Dianabol without ss and waiting to see if crack or not! I am planning to make Sustanon and NPP this week, all gear is 50% GSO and 50% EO very smooth I want to check your oil for that ;-)
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Sounds great bro! Why do you prefer Test C over E bro? I like them both, but for some reason I just prefer E.
I'm going to need to brew everything for my next cycle! I'm going to be using Tren A, Test P and E/C (need to decide which, E or C), EQ, and Mast. I need to also get some HGH for it.
How do you usually do your sust bro? I've never done sust, I've only done single esters, never multi-ester blends. Do you mix the individual esters yourself? Or what?
And yeah bro, that sounds smooth. But when you get the sample of my oil, you'll learn GSO isn't nearly as good as mine!!! hahaha.
Hahaha what do you want to learn about? I don't know everything, but between everyone that participates in this thread, I'm confident any of your questions will be answered adequately.
Huh?? Are you asking about them? Not sure what you're asking for and/or say...
AVP
Growing Brother
Yes mate I make a blend of my favourite esters and then put the oil on them ;-) i prefer test C becouse holds less water to my body, it's my favorite Testosteron ester with the propionate;-) I will check and tell you about the oil bro;-)
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wowstrongarms
New Member
Well I guess technically it's capsule filter lol. The whatman polycap series. I fuggin love them.
You can run some oil through them to clean them out, and then just autoclave it when you are ready to brew again. Thats a big tip for any of our local suppliers who are not using these.
Some suppliers offer the pre mixed blend. Mine does not, so I just mix according to regular sust %'s.
AVP
Growing Brother
Hey guys, great thread here! Lots of great info... I'm not new to brewing but have a question related to filtering water based test suspension...
I use a peristaltic pump and capsule filters into sterile media bottles
Now then, these filters are only rated to 40 degrees Celsius, so I'm worried that the test powder, 10% BB, 3% BA and 3% pS80 mix will crash before I've had chance to filter into the distilled water (thinking this will already be filtered into media bottle, or is it best to do this after the test mix is filtered)
I'm wondering if anyone has brewed a sizeable batch using this method? And could perhaps offer any advice or tips, I can't be doing with the smell anymore that guaiacol leaves when doing oil based lol
Please don't suggest syringe filtering or bottle tops! those days are gone!
Thanks in advance
I use a peristaltic pump and capsule filters into sterile media bottles
Now then, these filters are only rated to 40 degrees Celsius, so I'm worried that the test powder, 10% BB, 3% BA and 3% pS80 mix will crash before I've had chance to filter into the distilled water (thinking this will already be filtered into media bottle, or is it best to do this after the test mix is filtered)
I'm wondering if anyone has brewed a sizeable batch using this method? And could perhaps offer any advice or tips, I can't be doing with the smell anymore that guaiacol leaves when doing oil based lol
Please don't suggest syringe filtering or bottle tops! those days are gone!
Thanks in advance
wowstrongarms
New Member
Based on the little I know about brewing test susp, I would not use a capsule filter for it. Aren't you supposed to keep mixing it the entire time its filtering? How are you going to do that when it's got to go through all the hoses and the giant filter capsule?Hey guys, great thread here! Lots of great info... I'm not new to brewing but have a question related to filtering water based test suspension...
I use a peristaltic pump and capsule filters into sterile media bottles
Now then, these filters are only rated to 40 degrees Celsius, so I'm worried that the test powder, 10% BB, 3% BA and 3% pS80 mix will crash before I've had chance to filter into the distilled water (thinking this will already be filtered into media bottle, or is it best to do this after the test mix is filtered)
I'm wondering if anyone has brewed a sizeable batch using this method? And could perhaps offer any advice or tips, I can't be doing with the smell anymore that guaiacol leaves when doing oil based lol
Please don't suggest syringe filtering or bottle tops! those days are gone!
Thanks in advance
Hey man, thanks for the reply.
I'm not sure about that, how would you keep mixing it even if using syringe filters? I mean it's kept hot yes, but that's the stop it from coming out of solution as far as I'm aware. Maybe that's what you meant by mixing?
But I think syringe filters must be useable at a higher temp than the polycaps as these are only rated to the temp as stated in previous post.
On another note- I've just read further back that you also use the polycaps, and you reuse them. How many times do you do this?
Do you use a sterilising pouch for them to go into the autoclave? If so can you recommend one please
Also you flush with oil right? Which size polycap do you use, 36 or 75? just wondering if there is a way to air purge so no oil left in before autoclaving.
wowstrongarms
New Member
I was under the impression that you had to swirl the suspension the entire time it was filtering to ensure it all stayed together? If thats not the case, then polycaps would prob be fine, if they could withstand the necessary temp. I'd just put in small amount at a time, like maybe 30-40ml. That should filter in like 30 secs or less and stay plenty hot.
I don't reuse the polycaps personally, I just know that you can. I more than get my $50 worth out of them just filtering with them once.
Thanks again
Yeah I've never reused them! They do plenty enough without the need to reuse
The 75's are my favourite, but the holdup volume is nearly double that of a 36. Which is where I'm thinking I may have issues if doing test suspension, as it's such a small amount of solvents and powder mix compared to the distilled water that takes up most of the whole solution, so may have to hold back some BB to flush with
I suppose I will just have to try it and see how it goes. Worst case scenario I waste some powder and a filter!
I've been reading over Peristaltic Pumps, and I have to admit they definitely have piqued my interest. I can definitely see how they would be really incredible to work with, but I imagine they're extremely expensive -- something a homebrewer wouldn't just want to drop money on unless they're selling. Since I'm just making for myself, there's no reason I'd need such a setup lol. But they've been fun to read over. Maybe someday I can find a cheap one on craigslist or something and play around with it.
What made you guys decide to buy and use one? Do you really make that much that you require such a setup? It seems like it would be cheaper and easier just to use a hand pump with a disposable/permanent filter assembly if only making it for yourself (or even yourself and a few friends, not a large operation).
Also, AVP, you need to clear out your inbox and sent messages bro. You're full so I can't reply to you PM. I've been trying but you still haven't cleared your inbox/sent box. We only have a limit of 50, so you should make sure you clear your messages regularly.
What made you guys decide to buy and use one? Do you really make that much that you require such a setup? It seems like it would be cheaper and easier just to use a hand pump with a disposable/permanent filter assembly if only making it for yourself (or even yourself and a few friends, not a large operation).
Also, AVP, you need to clear out your inbox and sent messages bro. You're full so I can't reply to you PM. I've been trying but you still haven't cleared your inbox/sent box. We only have a limit of 50, so you should make sure you clear your messages regularly.
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