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genomex said:
I've been reading over Peristaltic Pumps, and I have to admit they definitely have piqued my interest. I can definitely see how they would be really incredible to work with, but I imagine they're extremely expensive -- something a homebrewer wouldn't just want to drop money on unless they're selling. Since I'm just making for myself, there's no reason I'd need such a setup lol. But they've been fun to read over. Maybe someday I can find a cheap one on craigslist or something and play around with it.

What made you guys decide to buy and use one? Do you really make that much that you require such a setup? It seems like it would be cheaper and easier just to use a hand pump with a disposable/permanent filter assembly if only making it for yourself (or even yourself and a few friends, not a large operation).

Also, AVP, you need to clear out your inbox and sent messages bro. You're full so I can't reply to you PM. I've been trying but you still haven't cleared your inbox/sent box. We only have a limit of 50, so you should make sure you clear your messages regularly.
Click to expand...

You can get a pump thats good enough off amazon for 50 bucks. Look up grey beard pumps.
 
Nice style pumps, easy to clean, inexpensive controller boards, volume based on tubing I.D., great for transfer to vials, widely available used, lab grade. J
 
6264cc563be03836ce22a1b40fd0b23d.jpg
so I've been really busy lately and I've neglected the forum anyway I got some powder in today and here is a pic of some aromasin I just finished up with


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Will adding any kind of flavoring to an everclear & peg 300 solution fuck with the chemical in any way? I was thinking something simple like grenadine.
 
genomax I was asking where to get peg,cottonseed oil etc. o was wanting to atleast get me everything I need to do say some orals and some inject.for my use is there like a kit that comes with say syringefilters some BA. oil or gotta order seperate I guess I should look at site its medlab supply is that it

caveman72 using not abusing
 
caveman72 said:
genomax I was asking where to get peg,cottonseed oil etc. o was wanting to atleast get me everything I need to do say some orals and some inject.for my use is there like a kit that comes with say syringefilters some BA. oil or gotta order seperate I guess I should look at site its medlab supply is that it

caveman72 using not abusing
Click to expand...

I may not have understood everything you said, but here's a site that has pretty much everything. Though it sounds like you already know about it. That site has pretty much everything you need for homebrewing.

http://www.medical-and-lab-supplies.com/

If you were asking something else, sorry that I didn't catch it.
 
genomex said:
I've been reading over Peristaltic Pumps, and I have to admit they definitely have piqued my interest. I can definitely see how they would be really incredible to work with, but I imagine they're extremely expensive -- something a homebrewer wouldn't just want to drop money on unless they're selling. Since I'm just making for myself, there's no reason I'd need such a setup lol. But they've been fun to read over. Maybe someday I can find a cheap one on craigslist or something and play around with it.

What made you guys decide to buy and use one? Do you really make that much that you require such a setup? It seems like it would be cheaper and easier just to use a hand pump with a disposable/permanent filter assembly if only making it for yourself (or even yourself and a few friends, not a large operation).

Also, AVP, you need to clear out your inbox and sent messages bro. You're full so I can't reply to you PM. I've been trying but you still haven't cleared your inbox/sent box. We only have a limit of 50, so you should make sure you clear your messages regularly.
Click to expand...


Bottle tops take too long! That and the fact the plastic housing in most of them are not compatible with some solvents. EO will react with the plastic

Particularly if you go over 12% BB also, you'll see by the time it's all filtered, the upper plastic part has discoloured, found this more with the nalgenes though than any other brand and I certainly don't want to be injecting a sterile solution of AAS and plastic!

The peristaltic pumps are just a much better method all round, and you don't have to spend about 8 hours to filter a litre like the crappy bottle tops! Lol
 
Brewster said:
Bottle tops take too long! That and the fact the plastic housing in most of them are not compatible with some solvents. EO will react with the plastic

Particularly if you go over 12% BB also, you'll see by the time it's all filtered, the upper plastic part has discoloured, found this more with the nalgenes though than any other brand and I certainly don't want to be injecting a sterile solution of AAS and plastic!

The peristaltic pumps are just a much better method all round, and you don't have to spend about 8 hours to filter a litre like the crappy bottle tops! Lol
Click to expand...

Bottle tops with a glass receiver are going to be just fine for 99% of home brewers.
 
I have never had that happen. Not sure what brand or type ur using but that hasn't happened. And u can't use a glass receiver unless u have an autoclave to sterilize it

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
wowstrongarms said:
Bottle tops with a glass receiver are going to be just fine for 99% of home brewers.
Click to expand...

Definitely agree... But ime, not good enough once you start making exotic stuff like rip blends etc..

krazieone56 said:
I have never had that happen. Not sure what brand or type ur using but that hasn't happened. And u can't use a glass receiver unless u have an autoclave to sterilize it

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Click to expand...

You can use dry heat without having to use an autoclave, not many home brewers will have access to one
Dry heat sterilization is ample
 
krazieone56 said:
I have never had that happen. Not sure what brand or type ur using but that hasn't happened. And u can't use a glass receiver unless u have an autoclave to sterilize it

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Click to expand...
Says who? Alcohol bath plus a few hours at 400 degrees in the oven is just fine as far as sterilization.
 
wowstrongarms said:
Says who? Alcohol bath plus a few hours at 400 degrees in the oven is just fine as far as sterilization.
Click to expand...
Alcohol doesn't kill all bacteria and 400 deg isn't high enough. But OK. I won't do that. Disposable works perfectly fine and guaranteed sterile.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
krazieone56 said:
Alcohol doesn't kill all bacteria and 400 deg isn't high enough. But OK. I won't do that. Disposable works perfectly fine and guaranteed sterile.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Click to expand...



http://www.cdc.gov/hicpac/disinfection_sterilization/13_10othersterilizationmethods.html

http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/docf/

So again, why isn't 400 degrees high enough? It's well over the temp recommend by both the CDC and WHO. What super secret info do you have that trumps theirs? Or is it just regurgitation of crap you've read on forums?
 
wowstrongarms said:
http://www.cdc.gov/hicpac/disinfection_sterilization/13_10othersterilizationmethods.html

http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/docf/

So again, why isn't 400 degrees high enough? It's well over the temp recommend by both the CDC and WHO. What super secret info do you have that trumps theirs? Or is it just regurgitation of crap you've read on forums?
Click to expand...
LOL. Is this guy serious? If you knew who i was you would know I have my own methods my own recipes and I regurgitate nothing bro. That's funny.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
krazieone56 said:
LOL. Is this guy serious? If you knew who i was you would know I have my own methods my own recipes and I regurgitate nothing bro. That's funny.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Click to expand...
Then please provide some sort of reference for why CDC and WHO methods are not good enough? I'm not interested in your methods at all. I am however interested in why you say CDC and WHO recommendations are not good enough?
 
So then why are you in mine bobs and Matty's lounge then? Just to post silly things. I'm sorry bro but I would never ever trust sterility as a final sterile holding container to some alcohol and a fucking oven. The end.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
krazieone56 said:
So then why are you in mine bobs and Matty's lounge then? Just to post silly things. I'm sorry bro but I would never ever trust sterility as a final sterile holding container to some alcohol and a fucking oven. The end.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Click to expand...

Look, if you have no references as to why CDC and WHO standards aren't good enough, then you have no footing to stand on. I don't much care for your personal opinion on the topic, as that is not what I am asking for at this point in time. Do you have any legitimate claim to why dry heat sterilization is not good enough? It's a yes or no question.
 
wowstrongarms said:
Look, if you have no references as to why CDC and WHO standards aren't good enough, then you have no footing to stand on. I don't much care for your personal opinion on the topic, as that is not what I am asking for at this point in time. Do you have any legitimate claim to why dry heat sterilization is not good enough? It's a yes or no question.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure the CDC wasn't referring to sterilizing in ur oven at home bro. LOL. This is a silly topic. And I don't want new brewers trying this method and mess themselves up w non sterile gear. To all new brewers DO NOT follow this. If you want to use glass receivers then buy an autoclave. Or do what the rest of all brewers that know what they are doing and use disposable filters to ensure safe gear.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
keep arguments minimum please I'm trying to learn gonna brew I'm near future. krazy I appreciate you're input on forum I'll ask questions time to time, next one is good place to get peg and if I Google it is there another term thanks gonna do a oral first rounding supplys up found oil etc.but not b.a. and peg. I will find b.a. but should I look for certain peg please enlighten.

caveman72 using not abusing
 
caveman72 said:
keep arguments minimum please I'm trying to learn gonna brew I'm near future. krazy I appreciate you're input on forum I'll ask questions time to time, next one is good place to get peg and if I Google it is there another term thanks gonna do a oral first rounding supplys up found oil etc.but not b.a. and peg. I will find b.a. but should I look for certain peg please enlighten.

caveman72 using not abusing
Click to expand...
I get all my supplies and compounds from medlabsupply.com

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
krazieone56 said:
I'm pretty sure the CDC wasn't referring to sterilizing in ur oven at home bro. LOL. This is a silly topic. And I don't want new brewers trying this method and mess themselves up w non sterile gear. To all new brewers DO NOT follow this. If you want to use glass receivers then buy an autoclave. Or do what the rest of all brewers that know what they are doing and use disposable filters to ensure safe gear.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Click to expand...
Does it really make a difference as long as the oven reaches the targeted temp? Or do you feel that the small amount of air that could get in through the cracks could completely contaminate it? If so, then why are you recommending bottle top filters? You've got to open it up at some point to get the gear out of the receiver.
 
wowstrongarms said:
Does it really make a difference as long as the oven reaches the targeted temp? Or do you feel that the small amount of air that could get in through the cracks could completely contaminate it? If so, then why are you recommending bottle top filters? You've got to open it up at some point to get the gear out of the receiver.
Click to expand...
Yes after filtered u will get a small amount of air exposure but the bottle top filter is complete and sterile to begin with. I feel there is too much possibility for error trying to do it thru an oven when disposable is so inexpensive. What I do is have a flowhood over the receiver to remove top then put cap on. Then, I get my 60ml syringe ready back fill it and then put into jugs. It has very limited air exposure. If u want to do it that way then do it. I don't feel comfortable that my oven is clean enough or accurate enough temp wise. To each there own. But new brewers shud not attempt this method. They shud start with disposable.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
krazieone56 said:
Yes after filtered u will get a small amount of air exposure but the bottle top filter is complete and sterile to begin with. I feel there is too much possibility for error trying to do it thru an oven when disposable is so inexpensive. What I do is have a flowhood over the receiver to remove top then put cap on. Then, I get my 60ml syringe ready back fill it and then put into jugs. It has very limited air exposure. If u want to do it that way then do it. I don't feel comfortable that my oven is clean enough or accurate enough temp wise. To each there own. But new brewers shud not attempt this method. They shud start with disposable.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Click to expand...

I can 100% respect that answer.
 
wowstrongarms said:
Look, if you have no references as to why CDC and WHO standards aren't good enough, then you have no footing to stand on. I don't much care for your personal opinion on the topic, as that is not what I am asking for at this point in time. Do you have any legitimate claim to why dry heat sterilization is not good enough? It's a yes or no question.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with dry heat sterilization in an oven
 
krazieone56 said:
Yes after filtered u will get a small amount of air exposure but the bottle top filter is complete and sterile to begin with. I feel there is too much possibility for error trying to do it thru an oven when disposable is so inexpensive. What I do is have a flowhood over the receiver to remove top then put cap on. Then, I get my 60ml syringe ready back fill it and then put into jugs. It has very limited air exposure. If u want to do it that way then do it. I don't feel comfortable that my oven is clean enough or accurate enough temp wise. To each there own. But new brewers shud not attempt this method. They shud start with disposable.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Click to expand...

So you make a homemade laminar flow hood?

Some air exposure is unavoidable and really not that much of an issue as long as the time it's exposed is kept to an absolute minimum

You say you load a 60ml syringe then fill vials, do you use pre sterilized vials or do you do your own?
 
Brewster said:
Bottle tops take too long! That and the fact the plastic housing in most of them are not compatible with some solvents. EO will react with the plastic

Particularly if you go over 12% BB also, you'll see by the time it's all filtered, the upper plastic part has discoloured, found this more with the nalgenes though than any other brand and I certainly don't want to be injecting a sterile solution of AAS and plastic!

The peristaltic pumps are just a much better method all round, and you don't have to spend about 8 hours to filter a litre like the crappy bottle tops! Lol
Click to expand...

I agree that disposable ones are crappy. And what you're talking about is the reason that I dropped the extra money on my Sigma-Aldrich full glass filtration assembly, which I fucking love lol. And since its all glass, I don't have to worry about cracking it or anything. Plus I can use a vacuum if I want. I only make for myself. My IRL friends don't even know about me doing this. So I keep the quantities small, so such a setup really isn't necessary for me. So I went ahead and bought the highest quality option that fits my production level!

However, I have been looking into Peristaltic pumps, and have found quite a few for cheap online as someone mentioned before. If I decide to go down the route of using one, I need to find a good, re-useable (autoclaveable) filter housing for this. I haven't spent much time trying to find one yet. I'm actually curious if anyone knows of a good one, or what.

I have been really interested in buying one of the used ones to play with (and if I make a years worth of something for myself or whatever lol), depending how much the filter encasing cost. If the entire setup ends up being expensive or something then I won't bother. Again, I only make for myself so my "production quantity" is small.

wowstrongarms said:
Says who? Alcohol bath plus a few hours at 400 degrees in the oven is just fine as far as sterilization.
Click to expand...

While that is absolutely accepted as adequate for sterilization, I agree with Krazi that I'm personally not comfortable with dry heat from a HOME OVEN (if it was a high end setup specifically for sterilization, I wouldn't have a single issue with it). The papers you listed concerning CDC disinfection actually helped explain why -- the oven being static air type, which means not only does it take longer, but also has different pockets of different heats. While I believe if you do it long enough, the pockets of different temperatures shouldn't be too much of an issue, but I'm one of the more "paranoid" out there when it comes to sterility.

Not just that, but any sort of kitchen-grade cooking utilities "cycle", which means it doesn't just sit at the temperature you set it at. It reaches the temperature and then stops for a bit, then picks it back up when it drops to a certain temperature, etc. But again, if you do it long enough this isn't so much of a "threat" to the sterility, but its just far better if held at the proper temperature consistently over the entire period of time. Plus, after everything I've read concerning "wet heat sterilization" being far superior to "dry heat sterilization", it was just a no-brainer to me. But it also seems that I am far more willing to spend more money on my homebrewing equipment.

So while I completely agree that it is adequate for sterilization. I just haven't ever been comfortable with it and feel the shortcomings of kitchen-grade ovens are too severe to make me comfortable with how sterile it truly is after its done. So I dropped the money on getting a badass autoclave. And I love it! It takes extremely little time compared to alternatives, and is 100% sterilized to pharma standards.

Now... if you have a badass "dry heat sterilization" setup that is truly built for sterilization, now that's wassup lol. I'd actually really love to see one.

Brewster said:
Yeah dry heat sterilization is effective

Plus the autoclave tends to leave condensation
Click to expand...

So long as you follow the instructions for using the autoclave and use high quality (lab quality/"autoclave-able") equipment, this isn't an issue at all. But if you're trying to autoclave something made of iron, yeah you'll have an issue. I've never heard of anyone list the condensation as a negative of autoclaving. But I suppose every different sterilization method has its own downfall(s). Ultimately, all we can do is research and go with the options we are most comfortable with and available to us. If someone feels their sterilization is more than adequate and is accepted by the CDC and everything, then they should be proud and keep doing their thing.

We're all in homebrewing for ourselves (and close friends.... And for some people, money!). We don't do it to follow some homebrewing standard or something. Just love what you do and be proud with your end-product! We should all be helping each other in a positive way, not flaming over small things! Ok, end of hippy-like message.

wowstrongarms said:
http://www.cdc.gov/hicpac/disinfection_sterilization/13_10othersterilizationmethods.html

http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/docf/

So again, why isn't 400 degrees high enough? It's well over the temp recommend by both the CDC and WHO. What super secret info do you have that trumps theirs? Or is it just regurgitation of crap you've read on forums?
Click to expand...

Ouch bro! And well... Some people like to use higher temperatures dammit! Sometimes it needs to be 500 for less time! Those silly CDC :D.

--------------------------------------

So all of that aside, who knows of a good filter enclosure for the Peristaltic pump setup that is re-useable if autoclaved (or sterilized however you prefer).
 
Brewster said:
So you make a homemade laminar flow hood?

Some air exposure is unavoidable and really not that much of an issue as long as the time it's exposed is kept to an absolute minimum

You say you load a 60ml syringe then fill vials, do you use pre sterilized vials or do you do your own?
Click to expand...

If you use a completely sterilized environment like a clean room it isn't much of an issue at all! :p

And I believe Krazi sealed, pre-sterilized vials, if I'm not mistaken.
 
genomex said:
I agree that disposable ones are crappy. And what you're talking about is the reason that I dropped the extra money on my Sigma-Aldrich full glass filtration assembly, which I fucking love lol. And since its all glass, I don't have to worry about cracking it or anything. Plus I can use a vacuum if I want. I only make for myself. My IRL friends don't even know about me doing this. So I keep the quantities small, so such a setup really isn't necessary for me. So I went ahead and bought the highest quality option that fits my production level!

However, I have been looking into Peristaltic pumps, and have found quite a few for cheap online as someone mentioned before. If I decide to go down the route of using one, I need to find a good, re-useable (autoclaveable) filter housing for this. I haven't spent much time trying to find one yet. I'm actually curious if anyone knows of a good one, or what.

I have been really interested in buying one of the used ones to play with (and if I make a years worth of something for myself or whatever lol), depending how much the filter encasing cost. If the entire setup ends up being expensive or something then I won't bother. Again, I only make for myself so my "production quantity" is small.



While that is absolutely accepted as adequate for sterilization, I agree with Krazi that I'm personally not comfortable with dry heat from a HOME OVEN (if it was a high end setup specifically for sterilization, I wouldn't have a single issue with it). The papers you listed concerning CDC disinfection actually helped explain why -- the oven being static air type, which means not only does it take longer, but also has different pockets of different heats. While I believe if you do it long enough, the pockets of different temperatures shouldn't be too much of an issue, but I'm one of the more "paranoid" out there when it comes to sterility.

Not just that, but any sort of kitchen-grade cooking utilities "cycle", which means it doesn't just sit at the temperature you set it at. It reaches the temperature and then stops for a bit, then picks it back up when it drops to a certain temperature, etc. But again, if you do it long enough this isn't so much of a "threat" to the sterility, but its just far better if held at the proper temperature consistently over the entire period of time. Plus, after everything I've read concerning "wet heat sterilization" being far superior to "dry heat sterilization", it was just a no-brainer to me. But it also seems that I am far more willing to spend more money on my homebrewing equipment.

So while I completely agree that it is adequate for sterilization. I just haven't ever been comfortable with it and feel the shortcomings of kitchen-grade ovens are too severe to make me comfortable with how sterile it truly is after its done. So I dropped the money on getting a badass autoclave. And I love it! It takes extremely little time compared to alternatives, and is 100% sterilized to pharma standards.

Now... if you have a badass "dry heat sterilization" setup that is truly built for sterilization, now that's wassup lol. I'd actually really love to see one.



So long as you follow the instructions for using the autoclave and use high quality (lab quality/"autoclave-able") equipment, this isn't an issue at all. But if you're trying to autoclave something made of iron, yeah you'll have an issue. I've never heard of anyone list the condensation as a negative of autoclaving. But I suppose every different sterilization method has its own downfall(s). Ultimately, all we can do is research and go with the options we are most comfortable with and available to us. If someone feels their sterilization is more than adequate and is accepted by the CDC and everything, then they should be proud and keep doing their thing.

We're all in homebrewing for ourselves (and close friends.... And for some people, money!). We don't do it to follow some homebrewing standard or something. Just love what you do and be proud with your end-product! We should all be helping each other in a positive way, not flaming over small things! Ok, end of hippy-like message.



Ouch bro! And well... Some people like to use higher temperatures dammit! Sometimes it needs to be 500 for less time! Those silly CDC :D.

--------------------------------------

So all of that aside, who knows of a good filter enclosure for the Peristaltic pump setup that is re-useable if autoclaved (or sterilized however you prefer).
Click to expand...


Hey man, I'm here to contribute and learn new things just like everyone else :)

With regards to condensation being a negative thing....

I too have an autoclave, and autoclavable glass media bottles, every time I used it there would be condensation on the inside of it!! If one was to filter directly into this it would result in a cloudy end product, a sterile one albeit! But who the fvck wants to see and inject a cloudy end product lol

Peristaltic pump filters- you buy disposable whatman polycaps, no need to autoclave as they come pre-sterilized (well most do) and are only about 50 bucks, so no need at all to reuse when you can filter a good few litres of product with one filter
 
genomex said:
If you use a completely sterilized environment like a clean room it isn't much of an issue at all! :p

And I believe Krazi sealed, pre-sterilized vials, if I'm not mistaken.
Click to expand...

I've done a fair amount of vials in my time! Lol and have not encountered a single issue with sterility that I'm aware of.

But I disagree on the dry heat front, then the guy goes on to preach about sterility and he's opening his sterile bottle repeatedly to the elements and loading vials with a syringe! Lol

Unless he has a proper clean room like you say, which is doubtful for most home brewers, or working inside a legit filtered air flow hood then in my opinion his method is riskier than many others I've come across
 
Brewster said:
I've done a fair amount of vials in my time! Lol and have not encountered a single issue with sterility that I'm aware of.

But I disagree on the dry heat front, then the guy goes on to preach about sterility and he's opening his sterile bottle repeatedly to the elements and loading vials with a syringe! Lol

Unless he has a proper clean room like you say, which is doubtful for most home brewers, or working inside a legit filtered air flow hood then in my opinion his method is riskier than many others I've come across
Click to expand...
What in the hell are you talking about. What fucking home brewer has a clean room. Give me a break. This is just getting out of hand.

This is just stupid on all accounts.

Repeatedly exposed to air? What?

You probly don't even have a clean area. You are just cutting pasting articles and talking about baking glassware in the oven LOL. Give me a break.

What I do I have been doing for years never had one problem. So ya. I'm not listening to this stupid ass shit any longer bro.

You keep on baking your media bottles and hope for the best.

I got my end covered. Plz don't instruct new brewers to use this method. I would hate see someone end up with an abcess following your crazy advice.



KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
Brewster said:
Hey man, I'm here to contribute and learn new things just like everyone else :)

With regards to condensation being a negative thing....

I too have an autoclave, and autoclavable glass media bottles, every time I used it there would be condensation on the inside of it!! If one was to filter directly into this it would result in a cloudy end product, a sterile one albeit! But who the fvck wants to see and inject a cloudy end product lol

Peristaltic pump filters- you buy disposable whatman polycaps, no need to autoclave as they come pre-sterilized (well most do) and are only about 50 bucks, so no need at all to reuse when you can filter a good few litres of product with one filter
Click to expand...

Yeah bro we're all here to learn without a doubt.

Hm I honestly haven't ever had an issue with the condensation like you're talking about. The only thing I can really think of is you are using the autoclave with liquids that you are attempting to sterilize. I generally keep certain "types" of material requiring sterilization to themselves. Like if I'm going to do vials, I only put in other glassware items with them. Also, while this isn't directly related to this, I imagine you keep your items far enough apart to let the heat/steam penetrate and do its job?

Other than that, are you doing a 15 minute dry cycle at the end? This should completely eliminate your issue of condensation. And are you giving it a proper cooldown period at the end?

If you're doing those 2 and still having the issue, I strongly suggest looking into using an autoclave bag, followed by UV-C light exposure afterwards if you are concerned about anything (the UV-C shouldn't be necessary, but if you're paranoid there's nothing wrong with taking an extra measure just to be 100% sure lol). I have also met people that have put some of their items in paper sterilization bags.

Honestly, if you're issue is so severe that it will murky up the end product, then either something is messed up with your autoclave or you are doing something incorrect that you don't know about. Autoclaves are a bit more complex than some people like to think. But given what sort of equipment you use and how you speak, I have a feeling you are an extremely intelligent individual and already know this.

But give some of those a try bro, and let me know. You shouldn't have a single issue with condensation.

And concerning the filter encapsulations, I don't make enough at once to really justify $50 per run... No point in spending $50 each time tbh. I don't even filter 500ML. Even if I were to make a year's supply of Test C, I think I would only barely reach 500ML lol. And my glassware bottle top can handle that without an issue. And due to my buying filters in bulk, each filter is cheap.

Brewster said:
I've done a fair amount of vials in my time! Lol and have not encountered a single issue with sterility that I'm aware of.

But I disagree on the dry heat front, then the guy goes on to preach about sterility and he's opening his sterile bottle repeatedly to the elements and loading vials with a syringe! Lol

Unless he has a proper clean room like you say, which is doubtful for most home brewers, or working inside a legit filtered air flow hood then in my opinion his method is riskier than many others I've come across
Click to expand...

Wait what? Perhaps I misunderstood what Krazi said he did. But I thought he said that he directly injected the filtered solution into the pre-sealed sterile vials. I don't think he ever opens them bro. Since he injects them in and draws the solution from a container with extremely limited air-interaction, his method is actually pretty sterile. Unless I missed something? I don't know why anyone would buy sterile pre-sealed vials to open them hahaha.

And you're absolutely correct! I actually have only met 1 or 2 homebrewers that have a TRUE sterile environment to "brew" in. I'm one of the sterility freaks... So yeah. Its a huge deal to me lol.

How long have you been brewing?
 
krazieone56 said:
What in the hell are you talking about. What fucking home brewer has a clean room. Give me a break. This is just getting out of hand.

This is just stupid on all accounts.

Repeatedly exposed to air? What?

You probly don't even have a clean area. You are just cutting pasting articles and talking about baking glassware in the oven LOL. Give me a break.

What I do I have been doing for years never had one problem. So ya. I'm not listening to this stupid ass shit any longer bro.

You keep on baking your media bottles and hope for the best.

I got my end covered. Plz don't instruct new brewers to use this method. I would hate see someone end up with an abcess following your crazy advice.



KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Click to expand...

You seem totally incapable of rationale debate bro. No one is trying to cause arguments that I can see

You have been asked to answer a number of direct questions and haven't really given a straight answer to any of them

By repeatedly exposed to air, I was referring to you opening the media bottle and sticking a 60ml syringe inside it and drawing it out, I'm assuming your sterile media bottle contains more than 60ml of brewed AAS so I'm saying you must be doing this more than once? As in repeatedly opening and closing your media bottle

genomex said:
Yeah bro we're all here to learn without a doubt.

Hm I honestly haven't ever had an issue with the condensation like you're talking about. The only thing I can really think of is you are using the autoclave with liquids that you are attempting to sterilize. I generally keep certain "types" of material requiring sterilization to themselves. Like if I'm going to do vials, I only put in other glassware items with them. Also, while this isn't directly related to this, I imagine you keep your items far enough apart to let the heat/steam penetrate and do its job?

Other than that, are you doing a 15 minute dry cycle at the end? This should completely eliminate your issue of condensation. And are you giving it a proper cooldown period at the end?

If you're doing those 2 and still having the issue, I strongly suggest looking into using an autoclave bag, followed by UV-C light exposure afterwards if you are concerned about anything (the UV-C shouldn't be necessary, but if you're paranoid there's nothing wrong with taking an extra measure just to be 100% sure lol). I have also met people that have put some of their items in paper sterilization bags.

Honestly, if you're issue is so severe that it will murky up the end product, then either something is messed up with your autoclave or you are doing something incorrect that you don't know about. Autoclaves are a bit more complex than some people like to think. But given what sort of equipment you use and how you speak, I have a feeling you are an extremely intelligent individual and already know this.

But give some of those a try bro, and let me know. You shouldn't have a single issue with condensation.

And concerning the filter encapsulations, I don't make enough at once to really justify $50 per run... No point in spending $50 each time tbh. I don't even filter 500ML. Even if I were to make a year's supply of Test C, I think I would only barely reach 500ML lol. And my glassware bottle top can handle that without an issue. And due to my buying filters in bulk, each filter is cheap.



Wait what? Perhaps I misunderstood what Krazi said he did. But I thought he said that he directly injected the filtered solution into the pre-sealed sterile vials. I don't think he ever opens them bro. Since he injects them in and draws the solution from a container with extremely limited air-interaction, his method is actually pretty sterile. Unless I missed something? I don't know why anyone would buy sterile pre-sealed vials to open them hahaha.

And you're absolutely correct! I actually have only met 1 or 2 homebrewers that have a TRUE sterile environment to "brew" in. I'm one of the sterility freaks... So yeah. Its a huge deal to me lol.

How long have you been brewing?
Click to expand...

Yeah I have tried to sterilize the glass media in there before with the cap on loosely, I have a size 16L autoclave and only one or two bottles in there at a time.

You do your vials in there you say, do you put these in sterilization pouches?

The drying cycle your referring too, do you mind telling me what brand and model autoclave you have bro? As I don't believe mine has one, I left them in overnight, the vacuum it creates when the steam is released via the draw off cock then closed is supposed to help with drying but so far hasn't done much for me! Lol

Maybe I'll give it another try,thanks for the tips.

I have been brewing many years in answer to your question, well over 10, probably more.

genomex said:
Argh. What is with this homebrew drama. Shit makes no sense.
Click to expand...

The only person that seems to be creating drama is krazi, he has been asked fair questions and just seems to totally take it out of proportion.

Maybe he should drop the TNE/Tren mix as it's making him very angry! Lol

Only kidding krazi, we are all here to debate and learn bro, let's not turn this great thread into a dick measuring competition.

There is some great input in here by all you guys, and I'm sorry if anything I've said has upset you or anyone else

Right, let's get this back on topic!

That water based Suspension I was asking questions about last week turned out to be a success. :)
 
As I had stated earlier. I don't draw from the media bottle. I back fill my large syringe under a small flow hood. So there is literally a couple second of air exposure but still under a hood to prevent debris.

And I did answer your questions. No I don't have articles because I don't copy and paste. I speak from learned experience of trial and error. But always made sure to be sterile as possible

If you feel comfortable oven baking your media fine. But, for new guys I don't want them trying this as of yet. Everyone should start w disposable till you get your processes down and get familiar and comfortable w the products your making. That was my only point.



KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
krazieone56 said:
As I had stated earlier. I don't draw from the media bottle. I back fill my large syringe under a small flow hood. So there is literally a couple second of air exposure but still under a hood to prevent debris.

And I did answer your questions. No I don't have articles because I don't copy and paste. I speak from learned experience of trial and error. But always made sure to be sterile as possible

If you feel comfortable oven baking your media fine. But, for new guys I don't want them trying this as of yet. Everyone should start w disposable till you get your processes down and get familiar and comfortable w the products your making. That was my only point.



KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
Click to expand...

I think your confusing me with another member! Lol

I haven't copy and pasted a single thing

I've asked if you wouldn't mind describing or showing a pic of your home made hood as really interested in them
 
genomex said:
However, I have been looking into Peristaltic pumps, and have found quite a few for cheap online as someone mentioned before. If I decide to go down the route of using one, I need to find a good, re-useable (autoclaveable) filter housing for this. I haven't spent much time trying to find one yet. I'm actually curious if anyone knows of a good one, or what.

I have been really interested in buying one of the used ones to play with (and if I make a years worth of something for myself or whatever lol), depending how much the filter encasing cost. If the entire setup ends up being expensive or something then I won't bother. Again, I only make for myself so my "production quantity" is small.



While that is absolutely accepted as adequate for sterilization, I agree with Krazi that I'm personally not comfortable with dry heat from a HOME OVEN (if it was a high end setup specifically for sterilization, I wouldn't have a single issue with it). The papers you listed concerning CDC disinfection actually helped explain why -- the oven being static air type, which means not only does it take longer, but also has different pockets of different heats. While I believe if you do it long enough, the pockets of different temperatures shouldn't be too much of an issue, but I'm one of the more "paranoid" out there when it comes to sterility.

Not just that, but any sort of kitchen-grade cooking utilities "cycle", which means it doesn't just sit at the temperature you set it at. It reaches the temperature and then stops for a bit, then picks it back up when it drops to a certain temperature, etc. But again, if you do it long enough this isn't so much of a "threat" to the sterility, but its just far better if held at the proper temperature consistently over the entire period of time. Plus, after everything I've read concerning "wet heat sterilization" being far superior to "dry heat sterilization", it was just a no-brainer to me. But it also seems that I am far more willing to spend more money on my homebrewing equipment.

So while I completely agree that it is adequate for sterilization. I just haven't ever been comfortable with it and feel the shortcomings of kitchen-grade ovens are too severe to make me comfortable with how sterile it truly is after its done. So I dropped the money on getting a badass autoclave. And I love it! It takes extremely little time compared to alternatives, and is 100% sterilized to pharma standards.

Now... if you have a badass "dry heat sterilization" setup that is truly built for sterilization, now that's wassup lol. I'd actually really love to see one.
Click to expand...
Did you run across any other relatively cheap pumps other than those grey beards I recommended?

And like I said, I can completely agree with those worries over using a standard oven. I thought he was straight up saying dry heat was not a valid way to sterilize at first. I've seen quite a few dumb dumb running around saying autoclaves are the only way to sterilize things, and it's just simply not true. Autoclave vs dry heat is the exact same as far as sterilization(of course one or the other could better better for different materials). The only difference is an autocalve is more heat/time efficient.
 
So I am a newbie here and new to homebrewing but not to TRT. I tried to read thru all 250 pages of this thread but the question I have still remains. Out of the gazillion Chinese powder suppliers who offer most of the same products at a similar price, how do you pick the right one? I've heard of people getting ripped off or getting bogus products...advice? Has anyone gotten powder and tested it with one of the test kits available online? Best advice on discrete shipping?
 
Brewster said:
Yeah I have tried to sterilize the glass media in there before with the cap on loosely, I have a size 16L autoclave and only one or two bottles in there at a time.

You do your vials in there you say, do you put these in sterilization pouches?

The drying cycle your referring too, do you mind telling me what brand and model autoclave you have bro? As I don't believe mine has one, I left them in overnight, the vacuum it creates when the steam is released via the draw off cock then closed is supposed to help with drying but so far hasn't done much for me! Lol

Maybe I'll give it another try,thanks for the tips.

I have been brewing many years in answer to your question, well over 10, probably more.
Click to expand...

My autoclave isn't anything super special. Just a general, affordable autoclave. I've posted pictures before, but I'm too lazy to find them now because its nothing truly special.

I just haven't had serious condensation issues like you're describing. So I'm just putting possible solutions out there I've learned about autoclave usage through the years. If you don't have a high end autoclave, it won't be able to do a dry cycle. Which is basically when it blows hot air through it for an extended period to prevent condensation and what not. HOWEVER, there is an option for you if you don't have a high end autoclave. I've done it a few times. Take the glassware out immediately when they can be (still has water on them) and toss them in the oven. It'll do essentially the same thing. Just have the oven ready for as soon as you pull the glassware out.

No, I treat my vials like my other glassware. Unless something specifically requires special treatment, I don't do anything extravagant.

That's a long time to be doing it bro. That's pretty awesome!

wowstrongarms said:
Did you run across any other relatively cheap pumps other than those grey beards I recommended?

And like I said, I can completely agree with those worries over using a standard oven. I thought he was straight up saying dry heat was not a valid way to sterilize at first. I've seen quite a few dumb dumb running around saying autoclaves are the only way to sterilize things, and it's just simply not true. Autoclave vs dry heat is the exact same as far as sterilization(of course one or the other could better better for different materials). The only difference is an autocalve is more heat/time efficient.
Click to expand...

Yeah I found a few on ebay and what not.

Ultimately sterilization is sterilization. I've read a few things that discussed that pressurized wet heat is superior to "regular" dry heat sterilization in some situations. However, I think it was more talking about being able to do it faster or something of the sort. Some people thing extra costs equals better quality. Since the oven is more or less free, a nice expensive autoclave that runs $4000 or something ridiculous will obviously make them think it far superior. I mean come on, it HAS to be worth more since its so expensive, right? lol.

And naw, I knew what Krazi was saying. He's been doing it a while and knows whats up. He just has preferences, as we all do. And I can agree with him actually. It would be far better for someone just beginning to use a disposable filter and what not so they can learn how to do the process easily without being overly concerned with more complex sterilization protocol.
 
I need to know is the syringe filter the metal ones are those reusable, I plan on doing a brew for me with syringefilter the ones at medsupply are they throw away does anybody know another go to place I can get throw away. I know you all are more advance I got to start somewhere I'm not rich

caveman72 using not abusing
 
Never seen a metal syringe filter but I'm no expert. You can also get syringe and bottle top filters at gpzservices.com
That's where I get syringes. They are pretty fast
 
Hi wowstrongarms, I was looking at the grey beard pumps you had referenced. Those pumps have a few draw backs, first and foremost, the tubing at the pump head can not be replaced easily , just the I feed and out feed tubes. You would have to use different heads for each compound, or attempt to clean. Plus you can not change the tubing IDs to taylor your volume. There are less expensive pumps for salt water aquariums, with easy to change tubes. These are DC powered, but you can add several nice control features. If you are using this to pump from beaker to filter to receiver flask, use tops that have septa tops,large needle to fill, cap slightly loose to allow pressure equalization.

If you are using as a transfer pump to vials, speed and volume plus ramp control are nice and well as auto stop at volume.

Just a thought. J
 
Biotoxic said:
Hi wowstrongarms, I was looking at the grey beard pumps you had referenced. Those pumps have a few draw backs, first and foremost, the tubing at the pump head can not be replaced easily , just the I feed and out feed tubes. You would have to use different heads for each compound, or attempt to clean. Plus you can not change the tubing IDs to taylor your volume. There are less expensive pumps for salt water aquariums, with easy to change tubes. These are DC powered, but you can add several nice control features. If you are using this to pump from beaker to filter to receiver flask, use tops that have septa tops,large needle to fill, cap slightly loose to allow pressure equalization.

If you are using as a transfer pump to vials, speed and volume plus ramp control are nice and well as auto stop at volume.

Just a thought. J
Click to expand...
I don't much care if it is or is not easy to replace. It'll only be replaced when it breaks, which will be a very long time from now. Any compound remaining in the tube from a previous batch would be a completely negligible amount. Don't much care amount changing the flow rate either. It's all getting filtered so have it flowing into a flask that can hold everything I am filtering.

No doubt you could get something fancier, but this is a complete no fuss plug and play option.

I actually looked at the aquarium pumps, but the grey beard was all that I needed. Plus I didn't feel like messing around with finding a harness or something to go from dc to ac. I'm sure there is a simple plug and play harness, just didn't feel like finding one when I purchased this
 
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Yeah this thread is getting to be massive. There are so many subjects covered in a single thread. I wish it had been in multiple threads so it was easier to find specific issues and answers.
 
genomex said:
Yeah this thread is getting to be massive. There are so many subjects covered in a single thread. I wish it had been in multiple threads so it was easier to find specific issues and answers.
Click to expand...

Hell yeah man. You try to soak it up but it jumps from subject to subject. To bad we can't have some stickies with recipes agreed on by some of the vets and some straight up how to step by step brew instructions for newbies. I was lucky enough to sub to this thread from the get go but can't imagine someone trying to go all the way through.
 
2temptu said:
Devildog commented early in this thread about the shelf life of oils. Has anyone considered adding a small amount of vitamin E? It supposedly extends the shelf life, and I cant imagine it would be harmful to add a bit of USP vitamin E oil. Here is an article about extending shelf life of oils http://www.how-to-go-natural.com/how-to-make-grapeseed-sunflower-oils-last-more-than-6-months/
Click to expand...
If ur brewing for personal use no need to worry about shelf life. It will last a long time.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
Well, all my homebrew shit has been awesome so far... Almost the end of my 3rd week on my first tren cycle (tren e) and I'm considering upping the dosage. I'm at 450mg/wk and lately I've felt like a fucking god. Put on a solid 6-7lbs with no noticeable fat, plus the aggression is awesome. Tiny bit of insomnia and no night sweats. Anyone else have experience running tren e and an idea for full kick in time? I'd love to up the dose but don't want to get slammed ha
 
Cipp21 said:
Well, all my homebrew shit has been awesome so far... Almost the end of my 3rd week on my first tren cycle (tren e) and I'm considering upping the dosage. I'm at 450mg/wk and lately I've felt like a fucking god. Put on a solid 6-7lbs with no noticeable fat, plus the aggression is awesome. Tiny bit of insomnia and no night sweats. Anyone else have experience running tren e and an idea for full kick in time? I'd love to up the dose but don't want to get slammed ha
Click to expand...

Sides don't fully kick in til around week 5 for me. Very deceptive. Gains come in around 3-4, but night sweats and insomnia hit a couple weeks later.
 
Ya I agree tren e takes a bit of time. To be filly in. But the insomnia hits me quicker like week 2.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
Lol I'll give it a bit more time then. The insomnia hit once during week 2 and twice this week but nothing too severe, just up for an extra hour or two. I see why people rave about this stuff though!
 
Cipp21 said:
Lol I'll give it a bit more time then. The insomnia hit once during week 2 and twice this week but nothing too severe, just up for an extra hour or two. I see why people rave about this stuff though!
Click to expand...
Hey wait till you have crazy vivid fucked up dreams bro LOL. I should tell uy dream story. LOL. It will blow ur mind. L.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
wowstrongarms said:
You aren't lying. I've had dreams so fucking weird on tren that they will for ever be burned in my mind.
Click to expand...
OK here is my crazy tren dream.

OK so I was dreaming that I was vet at a zoo.

We had a sedated cougar in the exam room.

Her cubs were in the next room. They said she was fully sedated. So I was going to do the exam. I turned around to see what was up cause I could hear the cubs whinning.

Apparently, she wasn't fully sedated. LOL.

Before I could turn she was up and ready to pounce. I turned to try to yell for help. Before I could she jumped and landed on me. She suck one set of claws in my back and then a front paw of claws on my chest.

I tried to scream for help. Just as I tried to move she sunk her teeth into my neck.

Bam! I woke up seriously jumped up huffing and puffing going omg omg omg like out loud.

It was so clear and so vivid bro. It was insane.

Fucking tren man. LOL.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
Lol I get vivid dreams like that on test alone! Except mine are a bit more abstract and really drawn out. I'm talking dreams like going to work and forgetting your clothes....and then you try to put clothes on at work and bam, no more clothes on and u repeat the process over and over again and just keep getting embarrassed. Wake up and wonder where ur clothes are and why your not at work haha.

That and I have sleepwalking problems that really hit hard on cycle. I got up for work last week at 1:30am, shut off my alarm, made breakfast, then I went to hop in the shower and wondered wtf I was doing. Thought it was a dream, my girl told me it wasn't and that I walked around the house mumbling to myself the whole time too ha.
 
I was on a anti depressant when I was young. It gave me crazy ass dreams like that. I would dream that I was on fire running for water but I couldn't run fast, like I was really heavy. The other one was dreaming I was in a fight. I blacked both my own eyes twice.
 
I have been reading the post and I must say, I am motivated to maybe try my hand at this :) " better living through chemistry"
 
What's everyone's brewing setup cost them? Before raws... including oils and vials, crimper Ect. .. I was looking around 600$ does that sound about rite?
 
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kfriesen said:
What's everyone's brewing setup cost them? Before raws... including oils and vials, crimper Ect. .. I was looking around 600$ does that sound about rite?
Click to expand...

Thats a good amount to start with.
But if you start small and only brew for personal use I'd say you dont need that much :)
 
Well no. Its just filtered for impurities not sterilized. That's what the ba and the filtering is for.

KRAZIEONE - for all your DIO LABS needs....
 
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