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400mg VS 250mg in Long Ester Test Vials??

mrteacher

mrteacher

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I see alot of Labs producing 400mg per ml vials now. Why is this? I was always told that more test in short ester vials led to cyrstilization. Does this effect long esters? With more Test in suspension will there be more Post Injection Pain? Do they need to add More BA to the mix?

Just want to hear Opinions on this!
 
I have personally tried both and I did not make any additional gains off the 400 mg as I do the 200mg TRT script I have. I honestly think its just marketing etc:
 
To be honest bro I try test. 750 mgs 1cc twice a week and I see big different I was gaining good side all depend where you get your gear some lab used a lot of bat wat or alcohol
 
paja said:
To be honest bro I try test. 750 mgs 1cc twice a week and I see big different I was gaining good side all depend where you get your gear some lab used a lot of bat wat or alcohol
Click to expand...

I do understand more Test equals more Androgenic effects. I was more concerned about why labs are making higher concentrations. I always thought it was a more stable mix with less PIP in concentrations under 300mg
 
You know why bro cause most of the UG lab are not making real 300 right now is less concentration I remember back in the days. 200 mgs was a real 200 but now 300-400/500 you are paying for maybe haft of the dose
 
mrteacher said:
I do understand more Test equals more Androgenic effects. I was more concerned about why labs are making higher concentrations. I always thought it was a more stable mix with less PIP in concentrations under 300mg
Click to expand...
For me the PIP depends on two things. The type of Test and the location of injection. I really only got any PIP from Test P, and the combo Test's with the Test P (ie Sustanon and Omnadren). There are some companies that are making so-called Double-Dosed or Professional Line of Oils (ie Roid + Opiox and Gen-shi). I've done all three, and there is a difference. I just think it's the company, some are good, and make a quality product, and some just want your money, and make Bulls###...............JP
 
The higher concentrations of Test you are seeing are only in the long esters. Test Enanthate for example easily holds at 300mg/ml with zero BB, whereas the shorter esters like Prop require higher amounts of co-solvents(BB) in order to maintain the hormone suspended.

Arabian said it best....marketing

Paja also- That Test 400 is likely underdosed.

Prop when made by a Pharmacuetical is designed to be at 50mg/ml, that is its optimum concentration. But UG give the customers what they want, more MGs. Its funny how people will worry about injecting a few extra CCs of oil but not the fact that they are adding 400mg more of a hormone.

Some compounds like EQ will hold at incredibly high concentrations. I have personally seen it hold at 600mg/ml and have heard it will go up to 800 or more.

Putting Test E or Cyp out at a very high concentration seems like it would cause more problems than do good. The mix will be thicker, and at some point require more chemicals, BB or an ehtyl oleate mix, which is cause irritation for a lot of people.

Is 1 cc of oil that bad, in exchange for other chemicals? FYI you can take more oil in injection site than most people think....try running Crecibol(Mexican EQ dosed at 50mg/ml)
 
mh48500 said:
The higher concentrations of Test you are seeing are only in the long esters. Test Enanthate for example easily holds at 300mg/ml with zero BB, whereas the shorter esters like Prop require higher amounts of co-solvents(BB) in order to maintain the hormone suspended.

Arabian said it best....marketing

Paja also- That Test 400 is likely underdosed.

Prop when made by a Pharmacuetical is designed to be at 50mg/ml, that is its optimum concentration. But UG give the customers what they want, more MGs. Its funny how people will worry about injecting a few extra CCs of oil but not the fact that they are adding 400mg more of a hormone.

Some compounds like EQ will hold at incredibly high concentrations. I have personally seen it hold at 600mg/ml and have heard it will go up to 800 or more.

Putting Test E or Cyp out at a very high concentration seems like it would cause more problems than do good. The mix will be thicker, and at some point require more chemicals, BB or an ehtyl oleate mix, which is cause irritation for a lot of people.

Is 1 cc of oil that bad, in exchange for other chemicals? FYI you can take more oil in injection site than most people think....try running Crecibol(Mexican EQ dosed at 50mg/ml)
Click to expand...

What can a person expect from a test with BB in it? PIP?
 
A great illustration of the above point is evident when comparing the "active" amount of testosterone yield in equal "mg" dosages of these two testosterone esters. Think of the 110mg/200mg injection of enanthate. The 74mg/100mg injection of propionate would yield more active testosterone if you were to take "200mg" of the drug. This would yield 148mg of testosterone from the propionate!!! Do you see? So, 200mg of propionate is more "active" test than 200mg of enanthate.

Just something to consider when putting together your next cycle. If you want to get the most out of your compounds, you need to use them correctly.

Bring it on bro, lets explain it to them, I'm in the mood................................... AnalogMan
 
A larger ester such as enanthate, is roughly 55% testosterone. Twenty-Eight (45%) percent of the gross weight of a given amount of testosterone that you are searching for. So, a typical 200mg/cc shot of enanthate only contains 110mg of active testosterone. If you have ever used a shorter acting injectable anabolic, and gotten better results than using heavier dosages of long acting drugs, this is the reason. You may have been getting more "active" drug into your system with what appeared to be less "Overall" or gross mg dosage of drug. In short folks, it's all a math game. I learn from the best...All my cycle's for the last 10 years are by hormone MATH, and that is why I<<<<<<<<<choice real AAS's, so I<<<< can calculate my cycle's... Paja ,"Watson" is 174 milligrams compound/26 milligram's of ester .Can you say The Best my Brother........It's all in my "blog's" people..............AnalogMan
 
AnalogMan said:
A great illustration of the above point is evident when comparing the "active" amount of testosterone yield in equal "mg" dosages of these two testosterone esters. Think of the 110mg/200mg injection of enanthate. The 74mg/100mg injection of propionate would yield more active testosterone if you were to take "200mg" of the drug. This would yield 148mg of testosterone from the propionate!!! Do you see? So, 200mg of propionate is more "active" test than 200mg of enanthate.

Just something to consider when putting together your next cycle. If you want to get the most out of your compounds, you need to use them correctly.

Bring it on bro, lets explain it to them, I'm in the mood................................... AnalogMan
Click to expand...

Excellent point! I have a thread open asking if Testosterone Acetate is superior to Prop, one of the arguments is that Acetate has more active Testosterone than Prop also and reportedly does not come with the same PIP....thats open for debate and I will be brewing some soon to find out.

Now the question about BB, maybe Analogman can add his wisdom too......

BB is used primarily as a skin treatment in scabies and in that use is proven to be a skin irritant. I think thats where people get the idea that it causes site injection pain. Now if you dig deep,you can find a few reports actually stating that high concentrations of BB in injectable comounds are NOT proven to cause irritations. What we do know for sure is that you do require BB to hold a hormone in suspension depending on its ester and concentration.

So to answer your question as best possible, no I dont think you can automatically expect PIP from Testosterone just because it has BB in it. I personally think you can expect PIP from Testosterone when you go to concentrations higher than usually found in the ideal strength.

Why did Whatman settle on 200mg/ml for their CYP...why was Prop produced Pharmaceutical at 50mg/ml? Apart from medical dosage factors, it was also probably the optimum dose taking into consideration among other things, suspension and injection site pain.

The problem is finding hard proof with AAS. There are many opinions, but unless backed by scientific research and proof, its just Broscience.
 
AnalogMan said:
A larger ester such as enanthate, is roughly 55% testosterone. Twenty-Eight (45%) percent of the gross weight of a given amount of testosterone that you are searching for. So, a typical 200mg/cc shot of enanthate only contains 110mg of active testosterone. If you have ever used a shorter acting injectable anabolic, and gotten better results than using heavier dosages of long acting drugs, this is the reason. You may have been getting more "active" drug into your system with what appeared to be less "Overall" or gross mg dosage of drug. In short folks, it's all a math game. I learn from the best...All my cycle's for the last 10 years are by hormone MATH, and that is why I<<<<<<<<<choice real AAS's, so I<<<< can calculate my cycle's... Paja ,"Watson" is 174 milligrams compound/26 milligram's of ester .Can you say The Best my Brother........It's all in my "blog's" people..............AnalogMan
Click to expand...

Look up the active amount of test in acetate and let me know what you think.
 
DSC06978.webpTestosterone esters consist of the actual testosterone molecule, with a carbon chain attached to it. This carbon chain controls something called the partition co-efficient, which basically means how soluble the drug will be once in bloodstream. Also, the larger the carbon chain, the longer the ester, the less soluble the drug is in water, and longer the half-life.

Testosterone Propionate has three carbon ester's attached to it. The "shortest" available "ester" in a injectable testosterone product.

The half-life of Testosterone Propionate is on the order of 48-72 hours, or two to three days. This shorter chain ester needs to be injected more frequently.... ouch.

Testosterone Suspension-this drug is pure testosterone is sterilized water. There is no ester attached and the testosterone is biologically active at 100%, upon injection.

One Hundred Milligrams (100mg) of testosterone suspension, is, literally 100mg of active drug.

I know that is not your answer you wanted, but, I'm not going to guess, or "bro-science it..

Here;s my solution.....Have them both...........AnalogMan
 
Analog Man does not do "bro science" period.
 
AnalogMan said:
View attachment 670Testosterone esters consist of the actual testosterone molecule, with a carbon chain attached to it. This carbon chain controls something called the partition co-efficient, which basically means how soluble the drug will be once in bloodstream. Also, the larger the carbon chain, the longer the ester, the less soluble the drug is in water, and longer the half-life.

Testosterone Propionate has three carbon ester's attached to it. The "shortest" available "ester" in a injectable testosterone product.

The half-life of Testosterone Propionate is on the order of 48-72 hours, or two to three days. This shorter chain ester needs to be injected more frequently.... ouch.

Testosterone Suspension-this drug is pure testosterone is sterilized water. There is no ester attached and the testosterone is biologically active at 100%, upon injection.

One Hundred Milligrams (100mg) of testosterone suspension, is, literally 100mg of active drug.

I know that is not your answer you wanted, but, I'm not going to guess, or "bro-science it..

Here;s my solution.....Have them both...........AnalogMan
Click to expand...

How can you not respect that answer!!!! Thanks...do you call bullshit on the whole PIP because of the ester? I know you dont want to Broscience it, but your opinion would be appreciated.

I am going to brew it and try it myself anyways...but just curious.
 
Technique brother, what is PIP ? I've heard people talk about it, but, never had it myself......AnalogMan
mh48500 said:
How can you not respect that answer!!!! Thanks...do you call bullshit on the whole PIP because of the ester? I know you dont want to Broscience it, but your opinion would be appreciated.

I am going to brew it and try it myself anyways...but just curious.
Click to expand...
 
AnalogMan said:
Technique brother, what is PIP ? I've heard people talk about it, but, never had it myself......AnalogMan
Click to expand...

I want to believe I have good technique, lol, but I brewed some Prop a while back that came out a bit above 150mg/ml probably closer to 163mg and that HURT. It was literally crippling....
 
My brother look what I find for you my big brother look sustanon 450 mgs UG


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yea I hear ya bro, but I always, mix my stuff ,for that reason.. And there are certain compounds to use (as mix) you just got to find which ones work for your application...AnalogMan
mh48500 said:
I want to believe I have good technique, lol, but I brewed some Prop a while back that came out a bit above 150mg/ml probably closer to 163mg and that HURT. It was literally crippling....
Click to expand...
 
AnalogMan said:
View attachment 670Testosterone esters consist of the actual testosterone molecule, with a carbon chain attached to it. This carbon chain controls something called the partition co-efficient, which basically means how soluble the drug will be once in bloodstream. Also, the larger the carbon chain, the longer the ester, the less soluble the drug is in water, and longer the half-life.

Testosterone Propionate has three carbon ester's attached to it. The "shortest" available "ester" in a injectable testosterone product.

The half-life of Testosterone Propionate is on the order of 48-72 hours, or two to three days. This shorter chain ester needs to be injected more frequently.... ouch.

Testosterone Suspension-this drug is pure testosterone is sterilized water. There is no ester attached and the testosterone is biologically active at 100%, upon injection.

One Hundred Milligrams (100mg) of testosterone suspension, is, literally 100mg of active drug.

I know that is not your answer you wanted, but, I'm not going to guess, or "bro-science it..

Here;s my solution.....Have them both...........AnalogMan
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us bro, you make the science behind all this madness seem easy and easy to understand. I'm tuned in for my next lesson lol
 
What about guy's crying over PIP on 300 test e? I am not looking forward to the 400 mg for that reason.
 
that axio/synthrop sust4fifty is garbage. nothing but PIP and infections came out of that.
 
zwhit said:
that axio/synthrop sust4fifty is garbage. nothing but PIP and infections came out of that.
Click to expand...

We'll bro this shit is UG is not from axio. Axio is gone for long time ago all you see with they logo is not real is UG this one was make local, from a friend I know in person that make this test and used they logo
 
I know they're gone. the label looks exactly the same as the axio/synthrop sus4fifty I used a few years back. I wouldn't inject it into my dog
 
AnalogMan said:
View attachment 670Testosterone esters consist of the actual testosterone molecule, with a carbon chain attached to it. This carbon chain controls something called the partition co-efficient, which basically means how soluble the drug will be once in bloodstream. Also, the larger the carbon chain, the longer the ester, the less soluble the drug is in water, and longer the half-life.

Testosterone Propionate has three carbon ester's attached to it. The "shortest" available "ester" in a injectable testosterone product.

The half-life of Testosterone Propionate is on the order of 48-72 hours, or two to three days. This shorter chain ester needs to be injected more frequently.... ouch.

Testosterone Suspension-this drug is pure testosterone is sterilized water. There is no ester attached and the testosterone is biologically active at 100%, upon injection.

One Hundred Milligrams (100mg) of testosterone suspension, is, literally 100mg of active drug.

I know that is not your answer you wanted, but, I'm not going to guess, or "bro-science it..

Here;s my solution.....Have them both...........AnalogMan
Click to expand...

So if your sweet spot on test c is 800mg/wk would 600mg/wk of test ace/prop yeild similar results?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
AnalogMan said:
Are you wanting me to figure that out for you??.....AnalogMan
Click to expand...

I can do the math I was just wondering if someone with more experience running a short ester could help me with a short answer stating how many mg of a short ester is comparable to how many mg of a long ester I don't want to come off as being lazy I was just hoping a more experienced user could give me an idea of a good starting point with a short ester


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
So I did the math on it and if I'm correct 800mg of test c has 552mg of actual test and the easiest number I came up with would be 650mg of test ace that should have 539.5 mg actual test or 7mg of prop and that should have 560mg actual test does that look right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
bobsyouruncle said:
So I did the math on it and if I'm correct 800mg of test c has 552mg of actual test and the easiest number I came up with would be 650mg of test ace that should have 539.5 mg actual test or 7mg of prop and that should have 560mg actual test does that look right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I meant to say 700 mg of prop


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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