Why isnt Testosterone's role in fat burning more noted?

[BigTurk]

A little surprised I keep seeing people say T doesn't burn fat when virtually every study shows it is highly effective at fat reduction, specifically around the abdominal area.

One study in particular took a group of men who all had T levels around the median range of 600 and half were given something that reduced their levels to 300. At the end of the study that group had a 36% increase in fat compared to the normal group.

Another study showed that even giving a non anabolic 100 mg a week dose of testosterone to men for 8 weeks caused a drop of 6% bodyfat compared to control group of men with similar starting T levels that didn't get the 100 mg dose weekly.

Another study compared results of giving four different dosages of testosterone weekly to men for 20 weeks, one was a low dose, one a TRT dose, 300mg and 600mg. At the end of the study the more testosterone they had gotten the more muscle they gained and the more fat they lost.

Other studies have repeatedly shown a high correlation between men with the highest testosterone:estrogen ratio having the least amount of abdominal fat.

So I am not understanding why its continually stated that Testosterone doesn't help with fat reduction when basically every study done, especially at high levels shows it has a significant effect, especially in the abdominal region...

Any thoughts regarding this? Am I missing something here? I've even read articles saying that testosterone is more important to fat loss than GH since they have a synergistic effect and high T levels can stimulate the release of GH by itself via mechanisms in the body...

And yes I realize that gaining muscle will reduce BF% but that still doesn't explain the significant reduction in abdominal skinfold measurements. If there was no effect then a person losing BF because of muscle gain would still have the same abdominal skinfold measurement, they would just have more LBM to lower the percentage of fat...

 

[devildog]

My hypothesis is because saying testosterone is close to saying fuck in church. Here in the land of milk and honey, Americans have been force fead the idea that male hormones are at the root of evil. Hence, the reason why males get the short end of the stick when it comes to hormone level optimization.

 

[BigTurk]

My hypothesis is because saying testosterone is close to saying fuck in church. Here in the land of milk and honey, Americans have been force fead the idea that male hormones are at the root of evil. Hence, the reason why males get the short end of the stick when it comes to hormone level optimization.

True, but I'm talking even about people who use AAS claiming that it doesn't...

 

[ledhead]

True, but I'm talking even about people who use AAS claiming that it doesn't...

Because Test is not a cosmetic drug per se... Um, as we all know test aromatizes into estrogen, and too much estro causes unwanted sides. If people knew how to control estro then they would reap the benefits of test, but they don't, so test gets a bad rap.

 

[BigTurk]

Because Test is not a cosmetic drug per se... Um, as we all know test aromatizes into estrogen, and too much estro causes unwanted sides. If people knew how to control estro then they would reap the benefits of test, but they don't, so test gets a bad rap.

Now that would make sense...

It is mind numbing how many people believe that its cool to have multiple times the normal amount of Estrogen in your body as long as no gyno symptoms appear, and won't take an AI because they are afraid they will "crash" their E through the floor when its all about controlling it within the normal range, not allowing it to get too high or too low...

It would be like having a runaway truck going downhill but being afraid to use the brake because you think the truck will come to a complete stop instead of using the brake to simply control the speed of the truck...

 

[devildog]

Now that would make sense...

It is mind numbing how many people believe that its cool to have multiple times the normal amount of Estrogen in your body as long as no gyno symptoms appear, and won't take an AI because they are afraid they will "crash" their E through the floor when its all about controlling it within the normal range, not allowing it to get too high or too low...

It would be like having a runaway truck going downhill but being afraid to use the brake because you think the truck will come to a complete stop instead of using the brake to simply control the speed of the truck...

Yes, it's all about controlling the levels. I do labs every two months. If something's off, it can be adjusted for. I don't understand the guys in the pro ranks who run from labs, as they don't want to make adjustments that could be life-saving. I understand why they don't want to change anything, but it's damned dangerous running around for years geared to the hilt, and not knowing what's going on inside.

 

[BigTurk]

Yes, it's all about controlling the levels. I do labs every two months. If something's off, it can be adjusted for. I don't understand the guys in the pro ranks who run from labs, as they don't want to make adjustments that could be life-saving. I understand why they don't want to change anything, but it's damned dangerous running around for years geared to the hilt, and not knowing what's going on inside.

That is crazy, but I guess its like the person who knows they have a cavity but doesn't want to go see the dentist to get it filled but then ends having to go get a root canal after it destroys the tooth...

 

[Mateo123]

True, but I'm talking even about people who use AAS claiming that it doesn't...

I AGREE 100%!! I think what it is though is that although everything you have noted is TRUE; there are a lot of highly overweight men that think by taking steroids (testosterone) they will magicly loose 60lbs of fat while not having to change their diet and lifestyle. Test definitely helps me to lean out. Without question. However, it works in conjunction with a good diet and game plan.

 

[BigTurk]

I AGREE 100%!! I think what it is though is that although everything you have noted is TRUE; there are a lot of highly overweight men that think by taking steroids (testosterone) they will magicly loose 60lbs of fat while not having to change their diet and lifestyle. Test definitely helps me to lean out. Without question. However, it works in conjunction with a good diet and game plan.

Valid points...I made sure to get as lean as possible over the last three months so I had a fairly low BF start point(well as low as a dude with naturally low T levels could hope to get)...have gone from 214 lbs to 181 lbs and probably will be in the upper 170s when I start my cycle...can't wait although I'm not a big fan of needles, lol

 

[ledhead]

Yes, it's all about controlling the levels. I do labs every two months. If something's off, it can be adjusted for. I don't understand the guys in the pro ranks who run from labs, as they don't want to make adjustments that could be life-saving. I understand why they don't want to change anything, but it's damned dangerous running around for years geared to the hilt, and not knowing what's going on inside.

Lol. I know, they are out-of-control... I told this story on other boards before and I suppose it is fitting I tell it in regards to your post.

I met Dennis Newman right after he won the Nationals and right before he contacted leukemia, he was one of the few pros who was/is open about steroid use. He asserted himself without hesitating. He said, "take anything and everything you can get your hands on and put it your body, and take as much as you can handle, and do not believe there are certain drugs for cutting and bulking, you can cut and bulk on any drug." Now, I understand where he was getting at to some degree, especially the part about people think there are drugs for cutting and drugs for bulking, that's pure nonsense. Nevertheless, the part about taking boatloads of drugs was/is a little reckless...

 

[stevesmi]

if you are overweight you must change your lifestyle.. injecting some test and eating trash and being a couch potato isn't gonna make you slim up. not gonna happen.

we say that because its the truth.. those studies don't disprove that fact.

 

[krazieone56]

I think the mystique around test use is skewed by many different opinions. To an extent if you load yourself up with testosterone your body will drop some body fat because you body feels 18 again. However probly not more than 3-5%. You can't go in thinking I'm gonna go from 30% bf to 12% just by doing that alone. Theoretically, yes you probly could if your diet was so strict that it would force your body to burn stored fat. But in the same turn you would be eating such little food that you wouldn't be worth a shit in the gym so its a waste of gear.




KRAZIEONE

 

[Mateo123]

Lol. I know, they are out-of-control... I told this story on other boards before and I suppose it is fitting I tell it in regards to your post.

I met Dennis Newman right after he won the Nationals and right before he contacted leukemia, he was one of the few pros who was/is open about steroid use. He asserted himself without hesitating. He said, "take anything and everything you can get your hands on and put it your body, and take as much as you can handle, and do not believe there are certain drugs for cutting and bulking, you can cut and bulk on any drug." Now, I understand where he was getting at to some degree, especially the part about people think there are drugs for cutting and drugs for bulking, that's pure nonsense. Nevertheless, the part about taking boatloads of drugs was/is a little reckless...

True.....take Tren for example. You can bulk wayyyyy up or lean wayyy down...or do BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.

 

[krazieone56]

Ya hello leukemia lol.

And ya u can use tren and cut up. But not when you are a fatty. That would be very unhealthy for your heart which us already working hard trying to pump with all the fat around it.

KRAZIEONE

 

[stevesmi]

I think the mystique around test use is skewed by many different opinions. To an extent if you load yourself up with testosterone your body will drop some body fat because you body feels 18 again. However probly not more than 3-5%. You can't go in thinking I'm gonna go from 30% bf to 12% just by doing that alone. Theoretically, yes you probly could if your diet was so strict that it would force your body to burn stored fat. But in the same turn you would be eating such little food that you wouldn't be worth a shit in the gym so its a waste of gear.




KRAZIEONE

very good point. if I took 2 fat dudes with 30% body fat and gave one test and they both kept the same lifestyle for 8 weeks the guy with test may lose a couple % of body fat but in the end they both would still be obese. so its pointless

now if one were to change what they ate they would blow the other guy away and a bonus is if he were to exercise an hour per day. now we are talking!

 

[Mrhat39]

Don't forget there is a lot of guys that work there hind ends off before they started on AAS. And that is how they got in, and they don't want the process hacked. I can understand that. But the truth is the truth. Tren a, will cut fat! But guy's that have been waiting year's before doing a tren cycle, do not like to see someone else doing it early on. Let a new guy mention tren and see what happens. Or say he is looking to cut fat, with AAS. He will be flamed.

 

[BigTurk]

if you are overweight you must change your lifestyle.. injecting some test and eating trash and being a couch potato isn't gonna make you slim up. not gonna happen.

we say that because its the truth.. those studies don't disprove that fact.

That's pretty obvious...I'm sure they would lose fat but it would hardly be noticeable at that BF%...

The saying "You can never out train a poor diet" is 100% true

 

[BigTurk]

very good point. if I took 2 fat dudes with 30% body fat and gave one test and they both kept the same lifestyle for 8 weeks the guy with test may lose a couple % of body fat but in the end they both would still be obese. so its pointless

now if one were to change what they ate they would blow the other guy away and a bonus is if he were to exercise an hour per day. now we are talking!

I am more concerned with myself tho, who has been training hard, eating and supplementing right and still not where I need to be due to low natural T levels. Don't get me wrong, people tell me I look like I should be a personal trainer and that I look really good, but I want to look awesome, not just great compared to some fat ass that sits on the couch and eats crap all day...

I'm 5' 8" 181 lbs, BF measurement I just took Sunday was 11.9 although I have weird fat storage patterns so I'm likely probably a few percent higher, maybe 14 or so...

I think I should expect to see a pretty dramatic difference running a Test/Var cycle just continuing to do what I am doing and not being held back by my T levels...

 

[Mateo123]

Don't forget there is a lot of guys that work there hind ends off before they started on AAS. And that is how they got in, and they don't want the process hacked. I can understand that. But the truth is the truth. Tren a, will cut fat! But guy's that have been waiting year's before doing a tren cycle, do not like to see someone else doing it early on. Let a new guy mention tren and see what happens. Or say he is looking to cut fat, with AAS. He will be flamed.

Excellent point! Bottom line STEROIDS WORK! To say that steroids dont burn fat is as ignorant as saying that steroids dont build muscle.

 

[stevesmi]

with those stats you are more than ready to juice. so go for it and see what happens

 

[Atrox]

Along these lines, I have taken to heart the lesson here and changed my diet and been exercising for nearly 2 months. When my knees act up, I change the cardio. I've lost 14 pounds in less than 45 days. Once I lean out some more and feel stronger and know I'm committed, I'm running the SARMS triple stack.

I have T-levels constantly around 350 and my doc won't consider TRT because it's still "normal". On the diet issue...is it normal to have my gut just act pissed off for the last 45 days? I'm like a goddamn rabbit...constantly knotted up and taking the kids to the pool 4 or 5 times a day. Is this a normal reaction to embracing a significantly healthier diet? I've even got my blood sugar down into the normal range where before it was garbage. When can I expect my stomach to accept it's fate? Right now, it hates me.

 

[BigTurk]

Atrox, just because something might be considered healthy, doesn't mean your body likes it. There are a lot of things people consider healthy that are reactive to many people...whey, salmon, cauliflower, Greek yogurt to name a few...

In reality, there are no universal healthy foods, simply foods that are healthy for your body chemistry. I would highly recommend getting a book called "The Plan" by Lyn Genet Recitas. You learn how to test for food reactivity and then avoid those foods...it works really good and a lot of health issues disappear when the chronic low grade inflammation disappears...

You can get the ebook version for under $13, one of the best things I've ever done for my health, to be honest

 

[BigTurk]

Don't forget there is a lot of guys that work there hind ends off before they started on AAS. And that is how they got in, and they don't want the process hacked. I can understand that. But the truth is the truth. Tren a, will cut fat! But guy's that have been waiting year's before doing a tren cycle, do not like to see someone else doing it early on. Let a new guy mention tren and see what happens. Or say he is looking to cut fat, with AAS. He will be flamed.

I can understand that, and I'm actually in that boat right now. I've accepted that I've gone as far as I can go naturally and I've decided that isn't good enough for me, so now I'm going to even the playing field so to speak. Now when I work 3 times as hard as the average person it will give me 5 times the results instead of half...

 

[Atrox]

Atrox, just because something might be considered healthy, doesn't mean your body likes it. There are a lot of things people consider healthy that are reactive to many people...whey, salmon, cauliflower, Greek yogurt to name a few...

In reality, there are no universal healthy foods, simply foods that are healthy for your body chemistry. I would highly recommend getting a book called "The Plan" by Lyn Genet Recitas. You learn how to test for food reactivity and then avoid those foods...it works really good and a lot of health issues disappear when the chronic low grade inflammation disappears...

You can get the ebook version for under $13, one of the best things I've ever done for my health, to be honest

Thanks Big Turk. I honestly can't figure out what I'm reacting to, but I'm going to get the book. I'm also going to start watching for a "cause and effect" going on between what I've eaten and when it's at it's worst.

 

[ozcroboy]

I've always dropped body fat on cycle even with a calorie surplus


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[stevesmi]

catabolic foods will cause you to lose weight.. for example go on a vegan/raw food diet and drink a ton of water and watch how fast you lose weight. someone who doesn't react to that obviously has some thyroid problems

on the flipside an anabolic diet such as a lot of meat, dairy, etc will cause mass to build, which isn't always good mass.. but fat. someone who doesn't react to this obviously has a helluva metabolism and probably works in a hard labor job where they are burning off tons of cals a day

 

[Atrox]

I've got a question Steve (well another one)- I know if you're obese you shouldn't use AAS on account of the complications and potential for bad things with your heart and blood levels. That's what I've been told anyway. So how does TRT levels of Test tie into the "risks" if you're overweight when you start? Seeing as this research shows it aids in fat burning, I can see that as a positive effect. What about the risks to people over 20% BF? Just with real no shit TRT usage.

 

[stevesmi]

I've got a question Steve (well another one)- I know if you're obese you shouldn't use AAS on account of the complications and potential for bad things with your heart and blood levels. That's what I've been told anyway. So how does TRT levels of Test tie into the "risks" if you're overweight when you start? Seeing as this research shows it aids in fat burning, I can see that as a positive effect. What about the risks to people over 20% BF? Just with real no shit TRT usage.

because test aromatizes and also added hormones will make your already bad lipids worse. someone who is 20% body fat LIKELY already has strained lipids.

 

[Atrox]

Are the risks the same at TRT levels of exogenous Test?