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Endurance Thread

stretch512

stretch512

Veteran Brother
EVO V.I.P.
As the name implies this is a thread that is dedicated to endurance. Every now and then we get a person looking for ways to gain an edge in the endurance world and let’s face it bodybuilding and endurance isn’t necessarily in the same category. Endurance is what brought me to Evo and since I have been here I have learned through experience what works well for endurance and what didn’t work well for me. This thread is based on what I have experienced so, please feel free to post your own experiences with what works best for your endurance.

Testosterone:
For recovering endurance athlete 100mg-200mg a week is all that is going to be needed. Other bodybuilders may laugh at these small doses but even 100mg a week will give you faster recovery time and which doesn’t aid in better endurance but will have you back at your favorite endurance activity faster and more frequently.

Anavar:
I found taking Anavar around 20mg-30mg gives a big added strength gain which does not help endurance but does add to your power output when you need to lay down the hammer. I found swimming and cycling sprint times improved with small doses of Anavar. It won’t help you shave time off your century but it will help you power through that long climb. Be aware some people may experience pumps in the back or other areas in which case water, bananas and Taurine can be supplemented.

Dbol:
I found 10mg of Dbol gave me a great strength advantage but not so much endurance spike. I was able to power through tuff sections with pure strength and bloating is very minimal if not even noticed at all. Cycling and swimming I found 10mg of Dbol to give a very nice surge in strength.

Tren:
Against the advice of my big bro I tried some Tren no ester and found out that Tren is a cardio killer. It will destroy your cardio no joke. I pinned in the morning and hit the trails for an after work mountain bike ride. These trails I can normally out climb most people on but that day I could hardly catch my breath. The entire cardio session was a bust and my endurance suffered like I had asthma and I was upset at myself for not having headed the advice of my bro but learned the hard way that Tren will kill endurance and also make you a complete jerk : )

EQ:
When I had my EQ dosage dialed in at around 200-250mg a week I could tell my endurance level did rise a bit. Combined with a low dose of Test for recovery EQ works very well at increasing RBC count and it was noticeable alongside GW-50156 that my times on climbs and overall ride time were getting shorter.

GW-50156:
What else needs to be said about this compound? It just works very well for endurance. GW normally takes about a week for me to see the effects but after that breathing comes easier, heavier breathing loads can be achieved which leads to greater cardio output hence the endurance advantages. GW along with EQ I actually experienced some of my fastest times ever so there is no doubt this stuff works very well!

Ostarine:
I have experienced no real effects of Ostarine when it comes to endurance. I am not sure if I even experienced its joint healing properties but on paper this looks like something that will strengthen your joints allowing you to plow through more which is great but not adding to overall endurance.

Tbol:
This compound like Dbol has been proven over time to work for strength gains. I have not actually ran Tbol yet but wanted to mention it since having ran both low dose of Dbol and Anavar. I would imagine low dosing Tbol would also give an endurance athlete added strength gains which isn’t adding to endurance but I am sure will help out when you are suffering in the pain cave.

EPO:
The big dog of all endurance PED’s (it is actually a hormone) and hands down the most dangerous and expensive one to run. EPO works like the thermostat works in your home. When taking small doses the amount of EPO the kidneys produce is raised and along with an increase RBC count you are now able to utilize oxygen more efficiently. Nothing comes closer to simulating high altitude training than Epogen but the risks of over dosing can be deadly. Before anyone decides to use Epogen just like any PED extensive research must be done and in the case of EPO I would even consult a Dr. that will be frank about how to run this compound.


Peptides:
There are too many to mention but having run them while early season training peptides can aid in faster recovery times which will help endurance athlete get back to training faster. AICAR and ITPP are new peptides that supposedly work like Epogen and are safer. Further feedback needs to be established before these can be confirmed but I would like to test them out in the future.

Well… that’s all I got for now. I hope everyone else will chime in with what they think works well for endurance athletes. If you read this then you know that most AAS will not aid in endurance advantages but it should be noted that strength advantages and improved recovery times will help an endurance athlete. The compounds I would like to hear more about aiding endurance sports are: NPP, Winny, Mast, Primo, PHs?? HGH.
 
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I actually got a good endurance boost with ostarine (mk-2866) and I got harder (like a stronger look). Great article :)
 
Thanks Nelson, glad to hear you got the most out of your Ostarine. I will be looking to run it stand alone in a PCT later this year. Maybe I will get a better outcome next time and thanks for sharing your results.
 
Thanks for posting this, Stretch. You confirmed a theory I had lower-than-BBer standards doses of certain peds are better for the endurance game. Thanks for another piece of the puzzle!
 
stretch512 said:
AICAR and ITPP are new peptides that supposedly work like Epogen and are safer. Further feedback needs to be established before these can be confirmed but I would like to test them out in the future.
Click to expand...

I'm just trying to find concrete dosages on the ITPP.. and I'm going for it bro.
 
Hey biltpa I found this the other day and did want to share it with you as for dosing the ITPP:

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topi...hosphate-itpp-increased-oxygen-supply-to-tis/

If you read there is a dosage calculation done and the finding was to start at 3mg for a male dosage. It may actually be better to write the company to as to the dosage because finding a human dose was hard for me when I looked.

Please post your finding I am anxious to find out!
 
Thank you gymrat! Wow 5iu of GH huh? Well I'm sure recovery times would be incredible throwing GH into the mix. At 500mg of EQ I started feeling a little hypertensive but then again my test dose was not lower than the EQ so that is something to think about.
 
stretch512 said:
Hey biltpa I found this the other day and did want to share it with you as for dosing the ITPP:

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topi...hosphate-itpp-increased-oxygen-supply-to-tis/

If you read there is a dosage calculation done and the finding was to start at 3mg for a male dosage. It may actually be better to write the company to as to the dosage because finding a human dose was hard for me when I looked.

Please post your finding I am anxious to find out!
Click to expand...

Yea.. I had read all of that before. Problem is, there are a lot of folks "testing" dosages and no one person has found definitive results... And a lot of the dosages bounce back and forth from oral to injection. The calculation was actually 3mg/kg body weight. So for me approx 270mg dose... Apparently. And some say that it can potentially last up to 2 weeks. If that dosing is correct though, that would be incredibly expensive..
I have found bulk suppliers for horses.. but the minimum order is like a kilo hahaha. Not for testing purposes in other words. Once I find more data on it, I'll be sure to let you know.
 
I think cardarine would take the cake here
 
No doubt GW is hands down the winner for endurance boost without lurking into the EPO realm. I am wondering about Winstrol used by sportsmen. I have heard countless stories of track and field and football athletes using Winny. Has anyone used Winstrol and been involved in endurance sports or just sports in general. I'm thinking jumping, running, cycling, swimming etc. I know the joint issues exists but thankfully I read up on Montana's Winstrol article and he states that sore joints are due to lower E levels since Winny does that little trick. Any experiences from weekend warriors or the likes on Winstrol?
 
stretch512 said:
No doubt GW is hands down the winner for endurance boost without lurking into the EPO realm. I am wondering about Winstrol used by sportsmen. I have heard countless stories of track and field and football athletes using Winny. Has anyone used Winstrol and been involved in endurance sports or just sports in general. I'm thinking jumping, running, cycling, swimming etc. I know the joint issues exists but thankfully I read up on Montana's Winstrol article and he states that sore joints are due to lower E levels since Winny does that little trick. Any experiences from weekend warriors or the likes on Winstrol?
Click to expand...

It really depends on what your training for one time meet or a whole season of play theres a difference in what you would want to do if your preppn for 1 event 1 day or multi dates close together where you have to maintain in between along with recover.
 
I'm always looking for ways to push my endurance to the next level. I think GW is about as much as I can do right now apart from taking the EPO plunge. So, that part is maxed out for now. The other aspect I'm interested in optimizing is recovery. I like that you mentioned a low test dose for the recovery properties it could provide. I've read in a few places that it's a solid route to take for endurance athletes as it increases test levels but not so much as to cause a drastic accumulation of muscle mass. Bodybuilders, however, typically laugh at the idea and dismiss it with vacuous bro science. I experimented with S4 for its supposed strength gains and improved recovery. My results were fantastic in regard to strength—I could power up hills much faster after specific training and my speed intervals saw great improvement over the span of 4 weeks—but I didn't notice much in the realm of recovery.

Are you aware of any resources that provide reliable information regarding the use of EPO? It's always in the back of my mind and I'm always browsing for information. I haven't found anything enlightening. I don't suppose it's so easy to find a doctor willing to discuss the off-label use of Epogen. Perhaps I should befriend some nationally competitive cyclists to provide some insight on the matter. Lance lives in the Austin area. I'm not far from there haha.

I'll probably end up incorporating EPO and a low test dose within the next couple of years as I get more comfortable with the idea of it.
 
the best cycle you can run for endurance would consist of gw (CARDARINE), s4, mk-2866, eq, primo and albuterol... this stack is so strong for endurance that i don't ever want to stop running it... it's so ideal for anyone looking for reaching peaks of endurance they never knew possible... you need the purest sarms you can find... www.sarms1.com has them...
 
Dylan, that sounds like a serious endurance stack you laid out there.. I have never tried albuterol that is one I will have to gauge myself later on.

iNeedTiSitDown: I will follow up soon with a better comprehensive guide to epogen and its risks.

Thanks for everyone’s ideas on endurance stacks and questions I would like to hear more expereinces from members too.
 
So you gave that tren no suspension a try , and it was a flop ? Thx for trying Stretch , what a great article .

I just picked up some dat dar Tbol , gonna kick start a EQ cycle with it . I'll give you some feedback ! I'm also going to throw in a lil Deca with my low test dose . Let's see how that goes .

What do you think about test-no suspension , for post workout recovery ?


Caaannn Uuuu Diigg It ?
 
not quite sure about straight TNE but I would be willing to test it out in the future. Tbol and EQ sounds like a very good endurance combo. I also considered throwing NPP in a cycle in the future to see if the joint properties will translate into the ability for me to push at a higher frequency with lower possibility for over training joints (which happens when you log a shit load of miles).
 
stretch512 said:
not quite sure about straight TNE but I would be willing to test it out in the future. Tbol and EQ sounds like a very good endurance combo. I also considered throwing NPP in a cycle in the future to see if the joint properties will translate into the ability for me to push at a higher frequency with lower possibility for over training joints (which happens when you log a shit load of miles).
Click to expand...

Ok this is were I'm torn , why Npp and not Deca ?


Caaannn Uuuu Diigg It ?
 
I wish i had used GW and EQ back in my runner days. that would of been sweet.

running is just like lifting, in that you can only get so far naturally. once you hit a wall its really hard to break through without help. however i strongly believe lifting is far better for you than running in terms of injuries. running was extremely brutal on my body. shin splints, plantar fasciitis, knees, ankles, etc etc. we didn't evolve to run on hard surfaces but thats where runs would take place .. you are pounding against something for many many miles.
 
Well the only reason I say NPP is because it just the shorter ester than Decca and I would think it would act faster and leave faster. The EQ will know doubt have your hematocrit up after the first 4 weeks and with the npp you could be more flexible with your dosages (this is just my current thinking at the moment). I also want to go a little more in depth about checking our hematocrit to be able to gauge when we are hitting over 50% crit level.
 
Steve I totally agree with you man, running is really bad on your body. That’s why pedaling is lower impact and the strength and cardio benefits are great but in the same breath I would also say swimming is an amazing activity for just getting ripped and getting strong as hell too.
 
Hey Dylan I do not see any T in that run, is it not needed since there is S4? I ordered the tripe sack n have the other 2 compounds in my cabinet, n have clen. What dose per wk should I go on the primo n eq?


Sent from 50's iPhone
 
Hey Flip I think you could adjust the NPP and see where you like it 200mg-300mg every week might be low/high enough to get the full benefit for your endurance activity.
 
stretch512 said:
Steve I totally agree with you man, running is really bad on your body. That’s why pedaling is lower impact and the strength and cardio benefits are great but in the same breath I would also say swimming is an amazing activity for just getting ripped and getting strong as hell too.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say running is bad on your body.. but pushing hard in it is. if you go for a light 10 minute jog every day or something and make sure you have well fitted shoes (not from walmart) then you should be fine.

when I competed I would push myself bigtime and would do road races on hard surfaces, it wrecked my shit bigtime
 
Yup I couldn't agree with you more. In fact I went for about a 20minuet jog for lunch today at work. I know some guys though that will try to put 50+ miles a week in running and after a while they start telling me their joint and spine problems. As far as distance I would much rather cover 50-100 miles by bike which is way less resistance than pounding it out on your feet.
 
Does npp throw size on pretty quick, or just keep it there, do the gains from sarms stay with ya for a decent amount of time?


Sent from 50's iPhone
 
Dennis50 said:
Does npp throw size on pretty quick, or just keep it there, do the gains from sarms stay with ya for a decent amount of time?


Sent from 50's iPhone
Click to expand...

It all depends . Yes you can keep your gains on Sarms , if you use high amounts of Npp or Deca you will loose most the gains because most is water retention . But it all comes down to diet and training . Looks like you want to learn more about PED's . I suggest you start threads about the questions and your goals . There is no stupid question , just ask , and we will do our best to answer .


Caaannn Uuuu Diigg It ?
 
Thank you sir for your kind reply, I hope I didn't interrupt y'all's thread, I was just reading em and found it very interesting. I will continue to read and learn.



Sent from 50's iPhone
 
stretch512 said:
Dylan, that sounds like a serious endurance stack you laid out there.. I have never tried albuterol that is one I will have to gauge myself later on.

iNeedTiSitDown: I will follow up soon with a better comprehensive guide to epogen and its risks.

Thanks for everyone’s ideas on endurance stacks and questions I would like to hear more expereinces from members too.
Click to expand...

albuterol stacks so well with sarms... you will love the combo...
 
cool post, what about a low dose of winstrol for endurance sports? i know people get pumps but i wonder if you kept the doses low enough
 
badnews168 said:
cool post, what about a low dose of winstrol for endurance sports? i know people get pumps but i wonder if you kept the doses low enough
Click to expand...

I was getting pumps from low dosage of 10mg a day, I couldnt even stand up at work for 10 minutes without getting cramps in my calves. not sure what your goals are but
 
Liking this thread. I'm involved in soccer, which, of course, requires a lot of endurance.

I'm in Week 4 of my 16 Week cycle, currently running 210mg of test per week (90mg every 3 days), with 560mg of EQ (240mg every 3 days). I'm also running 875IU of HCG per week (250IU eod. I know that's high, but it's cheap, it's working, and I have tons of it, so why not?), and 0.25mg arimidex about 5 days a week.

I've also been weight training 3 days a week, using Bosshogg's routine. I was making small gains at first, and then last week...BOOM! I was hitting 40+ reps on everything, even when going up 20-30 pounds in weight between sessions. I don't really care about getting heavier and adding muscle. I'd rather have too much and lose some later.

Before cycling, my blood pressure was usually 100/60, and my heart rate typically 52bpm (I've clocked it as low as 43 in the middle of the night).
4 weeks into the cycle, blood pressure is now around 120/70, with a heart rate usually around 60bpm. I know it's likely related to the fact that EQ causes the kidneys to create EPO, raising the number of red blood cells in the body. I donated blood at the start of my cycle, and will give blood again in Week 9 (that's gonna be one lucky patient getting my juiced-up blood lol).

I've noticed that I do get lower back and shin/calf pumps when running, but that type of pain is easy to ignore when you're a runner. I know it's not an injury, so I just ignore it and keep running hard. So far I haven't noticed any cardio difference. I don't feel any more or less winded or out of breath than I did before the cycle. Technically, this could be a good thing, because I've also gained 13 pounds since beginning the cycle (probably not all muscle), so the fact that I'm not feeling that extra weight might say something.

My legs have never looked better, and I'm only 4 weeks in. The rest of my body is looking better as well. I can't wait to see how I look when the cycle is complete.
 
badnews168 said:
cool post, what about a low dose of winstrol for endurance sports? i know people get pumps but i wonder if you kept the doses low enough
Click to expand...

From reading the experiences of others, I saw a common theme with Winstrol: joint pain. Might not be too valuable for a distance runner.

That said, from some research I did a couple months ago on Track and Field athletes:
-71 athletes are currently serving suspensions for Winstrol
-Only 4 athletes are currently serving suspensions for EQ
-27 athletes are banned for using EPO
-For the sake of including the pun, 65 athletes are currently serving "Test suspensions"
iaaf.org/about-iaaf/documents/anti-doping
 
I forgot to mention modafinil! It's an excellent drug for improving performance in endurance events. It promotes alertness and helps to ensure your muscles are firing when and how you want them to. You can push your body harder with a lower level of perceived effort. It can also promote a feeling of mild euphoria.

Modafinil is also extremely beneficial in ultra endurance events where a lack of sleep is an issue. If, for example, one were to be running 100 miles at altitude through the mountains for more than 24 hours, a proper dosing of modafinil would stave off mental and physical fatigue. I like 100 mg an hour before an event and, if that event lasts longer than 3 hours, another 100 mg three hours in. I try not to sensitize myself to it and keep the doses low. I did try 200 mg before a 50K once and I blew the race by keeping a suicide pace for the first couple of hours. Had to drop out because I pushed my legs harder than they should've been allowed to be pushed.

Look it up. Good stuff.
 
Interesting I have a source where I can get Provigil but I hear so many mixed reviews about whether or not it works. I actually never considered this for endurance but I see your point about ultra endurance events or like a 24 hour mountain bike race or something. I will have to test it out some day. Thanks for the info and adding this to the thread - appreciate it!
 
I had a friend who gave me some pro vigil she had a script for it. I was not really impressed but have herd a lot of others swear by it. I thought maybe I needs a higher dose, so I asked the doc about it and come to find out it was not in my budget for no more than it did for me.


Sent from 50's iPhone
 
Dennis50 said:
I had a friend who gave me some pro vigil she had a script for it. I was not really impressed but have herd a lot of others swear by it. I thought maybe I needs a higher dose, so I asked the doc about it and come to find out it was not in my budget for no more than it did for me.
Click to expand...

Yeah, everyone responds to it differently. I know of people who take up to 600 mg to get to a normal level of functioning. Some factors that I imagine come into play are genetics, how much caffeine one consumes, diet, other drugs, etc. I rarely ever consume caffeine products, so I think that's a major plus for me.
 
stretch512 said:
As the name implies this is a thread that is dedicated to endurance. Every now and then we get a person looking for ways to gain an edge in the endurance world and let’s face it bodybuilding and endurance isn’t necessarily in the same category. Endurance is what brought me to Evo and since I have been here I have learned through experience what works well for endurance and what didn’t work well for me. This thread is based on what I have experienced so, please feel free to post your own experiences with what works best for your endurance.

Testosterone:
For recovering endurance athlete 100mg-200mg a week is all that is going to be needed. Other bodybuilders may laugh at these small doses but even 100mg a week will give you faster recovery time and which doesn’t aid in better endurance but will have you back at your favorite endurance activity faster and more frequently.

Anavar:
I found taking Anavar around 20mg-30mg gives a big added strength gain which does not help endurance but does add to your power output when you need to lay down the hammer. I found swimming and cycling sprint times improved with small doses of Anavar. It won’t help you shave time off your century but it will help you power through that long climb. Be aware some people may experience pumps in the back or other areas in which case water, bananas and Taurine can be supplemented.

Dbol:
I found 10mg of Dbol gave me a great strength advantage but not so much endurance spike. I was able to power through tuff sections with pure strength and bloating is very minimal if not even noticed at all. Cycling and swimming I found 10mg of Dbol to give a very nice surge in strength.

Tren:
Against the advice of my big bro I tried some Tren no ester and found out that Tren is a cardio killer. It will destroy your cardio no joke. I pinned in the morning and hit the trails for an after work mountain bike ride. These trails I can normally out climb most people on but that day I could hardly catch my breath. The entire cardio session was a bust and my endurance suffered like I had asthma and I was upset at myself for not having headed the advice of my bro but learned the hard way that Tren will kill endurance and also make you a complete jerk : )

EQ:
When I had my EQ dosage dialed in at around 200-250mg a week I could tell my endurance level did rise a bit. Combined with a low dose of Test for recovery EQ works very well at increasing RBC count and it was noticeable alongside GW-50156 that my times on climbs and overall ride time were getting shorter.

GW-50156:
What else needs to be said about this compound? It just works very well for endurance. GW normally takes about a week for me to see the effects but after that breathing comes easier, heavier breathing loads can be achieved which leads to greater cardio output hence the endurance advantages. GW along with EQ I actually experienced some of my fastest times ever so there is no doubt this stuff works very well!

Ostarine:
I have experienced no real effects of Ostarine when it comes to endurance. I am not sure if I even experienced its joint healing properties but on paper this looks like something that will strengthen your joints allowing you to plow through more which is great but not adding to overall endurance.

Tbol:
This compound like Dbol has been proven over time to work for strength gains. I have not actually ran Tbol yet but wanted to mention it since having ran both low dose of Dbol and Anavar. I would imagine low dosing Tbol would also give an endurance athlete added strength gains which isn’t adding to endurance but I am sure will help out when you are suffering in the pain cave.

EPO:
The big dog of all endurance PED’s (it is actually a hormone) and hands down the most dangerous and expensive one to run. EPO works like the thermostat works in your home. When taking small doses the amount of EPO the kidneys produce is raised and along with an increase RBC count you are now able to utilize oxygen more efficiently. Nothing comes closer to simulating high altitude training than Epogen but the risks of over dosing can be deadly. Before anyone decides to use Epogen just like any PED extensive research must be done and in the case of EPO I would even consult a Dr. that will be frank about how to run this compound.


Peptides:
There are too many to mention but having run them while early season training peptides can aid in faster recovery times which will help endurance athlete get back to training faster. AICAR and ITPP are new peptides that supposedly work like Epogen and are safer. Further feedback needs to be established before these can be confirmed but I would like to test them out in the future.

Well… that’s all I got for now. I hope everyone else will chime in with what they think works well for endurance athletes. If you read this then you know that most AAS will not aid in endurance advantages but it should be noted that strength advantages and improved recovery times will help an endurance athlete. The compounds I would like to hear more about aiding endurance sports are: NPP, Winny, Mast, Primo, PHs?? HGH.
Click to expand...


The best endurance stack would be EQ, T3, and a thermogenic fat burner. EQ raises RBCs at a rather high rate, T3 stimulates oxygen uptake in the mitochondria, and raising your core body temperature via a thermogenic fat burner increases the rate which enzymes function and speeds up chemical reactions, which means we can create more energy
 
Last edited:
stretch512 said:
As the name implies this is a thread that is dedicated to endurance. Every now and then we get a person looking for ways to gain an edge in the endurance world and let’s face it bodybuilding and endurance isn’t necessarily in the same category. Endurance is what brought me to Evo and since I have been here I have learned through experience what works well for endurance and what didn’t work well for me. This thread is based on what I have experienced so, please feel free to post your own experiences with what works best for your endurance.

Testosterone:
For recovering endurance athlete 100mg-200mg a week is all that is going to be needed. Other bodybuilders may laugh at these small doses but even 100mg a week will give you faster recovery time and which doesn’t aid in better endurance but will have you back at your favorite endurance activity faster and more frequently.

Anavar:
I found taking Anavar around 20mg-30mg gives a big added strength gain which does not help endurance but does add to your power output when you need to lay down the hammer. I found swimming and cycling sprint times improved with small doses of Anavar. It won’t help you shave time off your century but it will help you power through that long climb. Be aware some people may experience pumps in the back or other areas in which case water, bananas and Taurine can be supplemented.

Dbol:
I found 10mg of Dbol gave me a great strength advantage but not so much endurance spike. I was able to power through tuff sections with pure strength and bloating is very minimal if not even noticed at all. Cycling and swimming I found 10mg of Dbol to give a very nice surge in strength.

Tren:
Against the advice of my big bro I tried some Tren no ester and found out that Tren is a cardio killer. It will destroy your cardio no joke. I pinned in the morning and hit the trails for an after work mountain bike ride. These trails I can normally out climb most people on but that day I could hardly catch my breath. The entire cardio session was a bust and my endurance suffered like I had asthma and I was upset at myself for not having headed the advice of my bro but learned the hard way that Tren will kill endurance and also make you a complete jerk : )

EQ:
When I had my EQ dosage dialed in at around 200-250mg a week I could tell my endurance level did rise a bit. Combined with a low dose of Test for recovery EQ works very well at increasing RBC count and it was noticeable alongside GW-50156 that my times on climbs and overall ride time were getting shorter.

GW-50156:
What else needs to be said about this compound? It just works very well for endurance. GW normally takes about a week for me to see the effects but after that breathing comes easier, heavier breathing loads can be achieved which leads to greater cardio output hence the endurance advantages. GW along with EQ I actually experienced some of my fastest times ever so there is no doubt this stuff works very well!

Ostarine:
I have experienced no real effects of Ostarine when it comes to endurance. I am not sure if I even experienced its joint healing properties but on paper this looks like something that will strengthen your joints allowing you to plow through more which is great but not adding to overall endurance.

Tbol:
This compound like Dbol has been proven over time to work for strength gains. I have not actually ran Tbol yet but wanted to mention it since having ran both low dose of Dbol and Anavar. I would imagine low dosing Tbol would also give an endurance athlete added strength gains which isn’t adding to endurance but I am sure will help out when you are suffering in the pain cave.

EPO:
The big dog of all endurance PED’s (it is actually a hormone) and hands down the most dangerous and expensive one to run. EPO works like the thermostat works in your home. When taking small doses the amount of EPO the kidneys produce is raised and along with an increase RBC count you are now able to utilize oxygen more efficiently. Nothing comes closer to simulating high altitude training than Epogen but the risks of over dosing can be deadly. Before anyone decides to use Epogen just like any PED extensive research must be done and in the case of EPO I would even consult a Dr. that will be frank about how to run this compound.


Peptides:
There are too many to mention but having run them while early season training peptides can aid in faster recovery times which will help endurance athlete get back to training faster. AICAR and ITPP are new peptides that supposedly work like Epogen and are safer. Further feedback needs to be established before these can be confirmed but I would like to test them out in the future.

Well… that’s all I got for now. I hope everyone else will chime in with what they think works well for endurance athletes. If you read this then you know that most AAS will not aid in endurance advantages but it should be noted that strength advantages and improved recovery times will help an endurance athlete. The compounds I would like to hear more about aiding endurance sports are: NPP, Winny, Mast, Primo, PHs?? HGH.
Click to expand...
DAMN STETCH!!! I just saw this thread. I had no idea you were such a man of experience. We need to change your handle to WALKINGPHARMACY...lol
 
Hahaha well it wasn't all at once. Despite the fact I took on buildong my frame I still can't stop riding my bike.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
 
Thanks ledhead. You are one of two brothers that gave me guidence as a skinny cyclist that was actually true. The EQ was amazing you were right.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
 
stretch512 said:
No doubt GW is hands down the winner for endurance boost without lurking into the EPO realm. I am wondering about Winstrol used by sportsmen. I have heard countless stories of track and field and football athletes using Winny. Has anyone used Winstrol and been involved in endurance sports or just sports in general. I'm thinking jumping, running, cycling, swimming etc. I know the joint issues exists but thankfully I read up on Montana's Winstrol article and he states that sore joints are due to lower E levels since Winny does that little trick. Any experiences from weekend warriors or the likes on Winstrol?
Click to expand...


I used whinny when I played hockey ......No noticalble endurance claims although this is over 10 years ago when I used it.Def helps with strenght and reflexes but not great hockey drug....LOL.....Second half of season I always used 400 eq and a 100 to 150 test last 4 years of my carreer.........GW was not around......HGH at 2 iu a day.....Great threaad by the way.....Always interested is this area
 
stretch512 said:
As the name implies this is a thread that is dedicated to endurance. Every now and then we get a person looking for ways to gain an edge in the endurance world and let’s face it bodybuilding and endurance isn’t necessarily in the same category. Endurance is what brought me to Evo and since I have been here I have learned through experience what works well for endurance and what didn’t work well for me. This thread is based on what I have experienced so, please feel free to post your own experiences with what works best for your endurance.

Testosterone:
For recovering endurance athlete 100mg-200mg a week is all that is going to be needed. Other bodybuilders may laugh at these small doses but even 100mg a week will give you faster recovery time and which doesn’t aid in better endurance but will have you back at your favorite endurance activity faster and more frequently.

Anavar:
I found taking Anavar around 20mg-30mg gives a big added strength gain which does not help endurance but does add to your power output when you need to lay down the hammer. I found swimming and cycling sprint times improved with small doses of Anavar. It won’t help you shave time off your century but it will help you power through that long climb. Be aware some people may experience pumps in the back or other areas in which case water, bananas and Taurine can be supplemented.

Dbol:
I found 10mg of Dbol gave me a great strength advantage but not so much endurance spike. I was able to power through tuff sections with pure strength and bloating is very minimal if not even noticed at all. Cycling and swimming I found 10mg of Dbol to give a very nice surge in strength.

Tren:
Against the advice of my big bro I tried some Tren no ester and found out that Tren is a cardio killer. It will destroy your cardio no joke. I pinned in the morning and hit the trails for an after work mountain bike ride. These trails I can normally out climb most people on but that day I could hardly catch my breath. The entire cardio session was a bust and my endurance suffered like I had asthma and I was upset at myself for not having headed the advice of my bro but learned the hard way that Tren will kill endurance and also make you a complete jerk : )

EQ:
When I had my EQ dosage dialed in at around 200-250mg a week I could tell my endurance level did rise a bit. Combined with a low dose of Test for recovery EQ works very well at increasing RBC count and it was noticeable alongside GW-50156 that my times on climbs and overall ride time were getting shorter.

GW-50156:
What else needs to be said about this compound? It just works very well for endurance. GW normally takes about a week for me to see the effects but after that breathing comes easier, heavier breathing loads can be achieved which leads to greater cardio output hence the endurance advantages. GW along with EQ I actually experienced some of my fastest times ever so there is no doubt this stuff works very well!

Ostarine:
I have experienced no real effects of Ostarine when it comes to endurance. I am not sure if I even experienced its joint healing properties but on paper this looks like something that will strengthen your joints allowing you to plow through more which is great but not adding to overall endurance.

Tbol:
This compound like Dbol has been proven over time to work for strength gains. I have not actually ran Tbol yet but wanted to mention it since having ran both low dose of Dbol and Anavar. I would imagine low dosing Tbol would also give an endurance athlete added strength gains which isn’t adding to endurance but I am sure will help out when you are suffering in the pain cave.

EPO:
The big dog of all endurance PED’s (it is actually a hormone) and hands down the most dangerous and expensive one to run. EPO works like the thermostat works in your home. When taking small doses the amount of EPO the kidneys produce is raised and along with an increase RBC count you are now able to utilize oxygen more efficiently. Nothing comes closer to simulating high altitude training than Epogen but the risks of over dosing can be deadly. Before anyone decides to use Epogen just like any PED extensive research must be done and in the case of EPO I would even consult a Dr. that will be frank about how to run this compound.


Peptides:
There are too many to mention but having run them while early season training peptides can aid in faster recovery times which will help endurance athlete get back to training faster. AICAR and ITPP are new peptides that supposedly work like Epogen and are safer. Further feedback needs to be established before these can be confirmed but I would like to test them out in the future.

Well… that’s all I got for now. I hope everyone else will chime in with what they think works well for endurance athletes. If you read this then you know that most AAS will not aid in endurance advantages but it should be noted that strength advantages and improved recovery times will help an endurance athlete. The compounds I would like to hear more about aiding endurance sports are: NPP, Winny, Mast, Primo, PHs?? HGH.
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Did you ever end up trying ITPP?
 
This is touchy for me since I am a BB however My endurance is very very high. (Thanks wrestling).

However agree with the type of compounds. EQ and Test are the best for endurance.
 
As of today my Functional Threshold Power is 300 watts. I'll do another power test after week 10 and see if the increase is more than a normal build period without the extra ingredients.
 
dylangemelli said:
bro, why are you cycling 200 mg of eq... that's literally a joke... your just throwing it away doing that... in all seriousness... why are you wasting such a wonderful steroid?? it makes absolutely no sense
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That's what I was told was the best for endurance athletes who don't want to bulk up and just use EQ for extra strength and recovery gains. Have I been misinformed?
 
Just for a little background on me... I'm 5'9" , I race at 170lbs (would like to get down to 165 this year) and I primarily race Ironman 70.3 triathlons and 100mi+ bike races. My most recent race was Augusta 70.3 where I went 5:07:XX.. Looking to get under the 5 hr mark this year in Galveston 70.3.
 
theAviator said:
Just for a little background on me... I'm 5'9" , I race at 170lbs (would like to get down to 165 this year) and I primarily race Ironman 70.3 triathlons and 100mi+ bike races. My most recent race was Augusta 70.3 where I went 5:07:XX.. Looking to get under the 5 hr mark this year in Galveston 70.3.
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Thanks for the info. You are around 4w/kg functional threshold. I wouldn't look at the hard stuff until you are at 4.5w/kg. Losing 5lbs would be a start but in Texas, low weight doesn't play as big of a role in cycling. Especially Galveston. Pancake flat. Running is a different story. Your weight is always a factor due to impact. Tri and Cycling seasons are months away and you have time to build strength. That's what I would focus on. I can't answer your EQ question becaise I have no experience with it but I believe you are in the range with the test prop. You don't need much more. On a really hard day of 20 min threshold work, you could add test suspension to have that aggression and drive to get through those long hard intervals. Inject 1 hour prior to the ride for suspension. In a few months you may have more muscle, bigger legs, more leg pain in your intervals at the same power but as you transition to speed work, your system will be used to more oxygen depleting muscle and you will have a bigger engine due to it. Your legs will lose the big bloated muscle gained during the power phase but your engine should remain bigger due to it being forced in the last phase to oxygenate more muscle. You will also be at a point where your system has learned how to buffer much more lactic acid the bigger muscles produce. When they start to get smaller, your buffering capacity will remain the same but with less buffering to do which allows you to work at a higher threshold. I realize that you weren't asking for a training plan but at under 4w/kg, you may need a little direction. With the right training and "program", you can possibly hit 5w/kg this season. Maybe more.

Also, take a look at some of the endurance results from GW. I have not tried it but many here swear by its results for endurance.
 
iwannagofaster said:
Thanks for the info. You are around 4w/kg functional threshold. I wouldn't look at the hard stuff until you are at 4.5w/kg. Losing 5lbs would be a start but in Texas, low weight doesn't play as big of a role in cycling. Especially Galveston. Pancake flat. Running is a different story. Your weight is always a factor due to impact. Tri and Cycling seasons are months away and you have time to build strength. That's what I would focus on. I can't answer your EQ question becaise I have no experience with it but I believe you are in the range with the test prop. You don't need much more. On a really hard day of 20 min threshold work, you could add test suspension to have that aggression and drive to get through those long hard intervals. Inject 1 hour prior to the ride for suspension. In a few months you may have more muscle, bigger legs, more leg pain in your intervals at the same power but as you transition to speed work, your system will be used to more oxygen depleting muscle and you will have a bigger engine due to it. Your legs will lose the big bloated muscle gained during the power phase but your engine should remain bigger due to it being forced in the last phase to oxygenate more muscle. You will also be at a point where your system has learned how to buffer much more lactic acid the bigger muscles produce. When they start to get smaller, your buffering capacity will remain the same but with less buffering to do which allows you to work at a higher threshold. I realize that you weren't asking for a training plan but at under 4w/kg, you may need a little direction. With the right training and "program", you can possibly hit 5w/kg this season. Maybe more.

Also, take a look at some of the endurance results from GW. I have not tried it but many here swear by its results for endurance.
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Thanks for all of that. I have a coach, who is well respected here in Louisiana where I live and train. He's sent multiple athletes to Kona, and he coaches a few Pro triathletes as well. So I'm pretty solid on my training plan. I have a 105 mile bike race coming up in mid march that I'm currently training for, as well as Galvy. The bike race has lots of elevation change and even a few 10% gravel climbs. It's call Rouge Roubaix and from what I hear it's pretty brutal. This is only my second season in endurance sports. So I seem large gains pretty quickly. The gains are starting to slow now. I'm not looking to conquer the world. Just looking to boost my recovery and strength a bit. My coach and I spoke yesterday and set a goal for 330w FTP 10 weeks from now.

I'm not familiar with GW. What is that? Sorry for the ignorance. Here to learn
 
No need to apologize. We are all here to learn. Rouge Roubaix is brutal but the climbs are punchy and short. Your weight won't even be a factor. Those are pure power climbs. It's a strength race.

330 will happen for you. If you are here looking for info on a program, you are clearly dedicated to growing as an athlete. 330 will be behind you very soon my friend.

Search GW here. You will find it. SARMS1 gets top reviews for it.
 
Nevermind that last post. So SARMS1 is a website where I can order the GW from? What would the proper dosage be per week? And how often to take it? Any negative side effects?
 
Okay so this is what I'm going to run

100mg TestP / week
200mg EQ / week
and GW.. Should I do 20mg/ day? Right before workout?


Also, do I need to take any Arimidex?
 
theAviator said:
Okay so this is what I'm going to run

100mg TestP / week
200mg EQ / week
and GW.. Should I do 20mg/ day? Right before workout?


Also, do I need to take any Arimidex?
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I gain a good bit of water with 100mg prop per week. I dose every day to cut down on water and with a 27g slin pen to cut back on scar tissue. 1/2 inch. I would use either Arimidex or Aromasin. I prefer Aromasin. It seems most here prefer it also. Let us know how it goes. I'm curious to know your progress.
 
Everything seems to be going well. Gained some water weight so I'm looking for some aromasin because I had ordered from Striated and got scammed. My joints are a little sore. Could that be due to the testP?
 
Nice thanks for keeping the thread alive! I never had sore joints from Test but yes prop made me extremely vascular and some water weight especially if your a skinny lean body like myself.
 
dylangemelli said:
the best cycle you can run for endurance would consist of gw (CARDARINE), s4, mk-2866, eq, primo and albuterol... this stack is so strong for endurance that i don't ever want to stop running it... it's so ideal for anyone looking for reaching peaks of endurance they never knew possible... you need the purest sarms you can find... www.sarms1.com has them...
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This looks awesome...I like this for endurance and looking to run this similar stack next cycle. If some strength is needed in the beginning I would think a little dbol/drol to kick it in.
 
So I'm two weeks in and starting to see some improvement mostly in my cycling. Did back to back long rides this weekend of 80+ miles and averaged over 240 watts on both rides. Still holding some water weight from the test p unfortunately but hopefully I'll get some aromasin soon and start getting that under control. Haven't noticed much in the running and swimming department just yet.
 
Things are really starting to ramp up now. Rode 100 miles this past weekend and at mile 80 I was still able to hole 285w for 20min. Also did a workout the other day with 3x15min intervals at 300w with 5 min rest in between and my heart rate has dropped significantly during intervals at 300w. Still waiting on some aromasin so I can drop this water weight. This stuff seems hard to get.
 
theAviator said:
Things are really starting to ramp up now. Rode 100 miles this past weekend and at mile 80 I was still able to hole 285w for 20min. Also did a workout the other day with 3x15min intervals at 300w with 5 min rest in between and my heart rate has dropped significantly during intervals at 300w. Still waiting on some aromasin so I can drop this water weight. This stuff seems hard to get.
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Good work my man! Your numbers are getting good. Where is your weight now?
 
I'm having trouble with weight. Im at 180 now. Im eating right and show no signs of increased body fat. My body fat for my last race was 8.5% checked with ultrasound machine. I've raced at 6% but had problems with that low of body fat. Just from knowing my body I'd say I'm at about 10% or so right now and carrying a bunch of water weight from the Test P. I can't seem to get my hands on any aromasin. I'm still trying.
 
Mission2 said:
EQ and Winstrol work the best for me. It's a shame that they both make my joints feel like shit.
Click to expand...

Take ostarine/lgd4033 with them bro. I'm using lgd-4033 with winny 50mg ed and the pain went away in my joints when I started the lgd. I don't have personal experience with osta though, but I do know they are really good for the joints and ligaments.
 
iwannagofaster said:
For endurance? Winstrol is good for that?
Click to expand...

If you can handle the stomach pains when your all out sprinting and come off the day before a big meet you'll be fucking amazed at how much faster it makes you. You gain so the strength:mass ratio is crazy. Like 3:1.
 
So before I began endurance sports I was into some body building and I'm still carrying around some unneeded muscle mass. This is probably the first time this question has ever been asked on this forum: what's the most effective way to drop excess muscle mass?
 
theAviator said:
So before I began endurance sports I was into some body building and I'm still carrying around some unneeded muscle mass. This is probably the first time this question has ever been asked on this forum: what's the most effective way to drop excess muscle mass?
Click to expand...
Back off of protein powders and shakes if you are on them. Some lean meat is ok but at a minimum. Also, while training for hours on the bike you will need to suffer. You will need to go into glycogen debt. It's miserable but if you want to get fit like an endurance pro, you will have to suffer. It's not healthy and it sucks. Recovery will be shitty but if you want to burn muscle, while traininh you will need to first burn through all of your existing sugars while not taking any more on. Drink water on the bike. Don't drink mix unless you are doing intervals that day. If you are doing intervals then drink mix. Otherwise you won't be able to repeat your intervals. That said, I would not recommend this now. Finish this season and stick to your current program. This is better done off season because the lack of recovery and miserable and hungry training days will destroy your strength and screw with your head. Training at this time of year should begin to be intense. You can't be weak now. Power is more important than weight at the moment. Don't rush it bro. You are building on your power and repeatability. Don't focus on weight for now. If you were at the razors edge and pushing 5.5 or more watts per kilo at threshold, I would say to look closer at weight. Enjoy your time. Don't obcess too much on it. HAVE A GOOD TIME!
 
iwannagofaster said:
Back off of protein powders and shakes if you are on them. Some lean meat is ok but at a minimum. Also, while training for hours on the bike you will need to suffer. You will need to go into glycogen debt. It's miserable but if you want to get fit like an endurance pro, you will have to suffer. It's not healthy and it sucks. Recovery will be shitty but if you want to burn muscle, while traininh you will need to first burn through all of your existing sugars while not taking any more on. Drink water on the bike. Don't drink mix unless you are doing intervals that day. If you are doing intervals then drink mix. Otherwise you won't be able to repeat your intervals. That said, I would not recommend this now. Finish this season and stick to your current program. This is better done off season because the lack of recovery and miserable and hungry training days will destroy your strength and screw with your head. Training at this time of year should begin to be intense. You can't be weak now. Power is more important than weight at the moment. Don't rush it bro. You are building on your power and repeatability. Don't focus on weight for now. If you were at the razors edge and pushing 5.5 or more watts per kilo at threshold, I would say to look closer at weight. Enjoy your time. Don't obcess too much on it. HAVE A GOOD TIME!
Click to expand...

Okay thanks!
 
Hey people,

Anyone else here finds that gear causes way more cramping than usual? I feel like I am definitely stronger and can push ridiculous speeds on my bike, swim or runs but I get these insanely painful cramps that I never had experienced before. What coudl be the cause of
 
On test alone I do not have cramps at all. Running orals I have experienced cramps but I no longer play with those for that reason right now.
 
stretch512 said:
On test alone I do not have cramps at all. Running orals I have experienced cramps but I no longer play with those for that reason right now.
Click to expand...
Agree. Anavar causes bad cramps in the beginning of the workout. I find if you can push through the first hour of pain or do a dedicated warm up with Anavar, the cramps go away. I've grown to like anavar and endurance. Most people don't like it for endurance and say that it kills your endurance. For me, as long as I am really fit and can push through the beginning of the workout, I like it.
 
I found Anavar to be very good for cycling and I had zero cramps - my aggression was off the chart and there is no bloating like dbol - I got cramps only when running winny.
 
I find that I can do ridiculous punchy sprints uphill TDF style! I can't think of ever being able to produce that much power. The other day I maxed out at 450 WATTS for 25 minutes! that is ridiculous, there is no way its due to any factor other than gear. The problem is, after the 25 minutes I was in some ungodly pain. Essentially every muscle upwards of my knee and below my hip was completely cramped and in agony, I had to be helped off the bike and helped up the stairs to my place. I can handle pain and suffering fairly well but I get the impression that you lose your ability to pace yourself on gear.
I know this is the strangest thing but I am also having trouble holding my TT position for more than 20 minutes at a time. I am getting pain similar to be in anaerobic state in my delts, neck and shoulder? I don't even have that problem when swimming?! I am not blaming everything on gear but I feel like even though I am stronger and I recover faster I can't seem to maintain my impressive stats over anything that takes longer than 25 minutes. do you have any experience with this?
 
C1t3athlete said:
I find that I can do ridiculous punchy sprints uphill TDF style! I can't think of ever being able to produce that much power. The other day I maxed out at 450 WATTS for 25 minutes! that is ridiculous, there is no way its due to any factor other than gear. The problem is, after the 25 minutes I was in some ungodly pain. Essentially every muscle upwards of my knee and below my hip was completely cramped and in agony, I had to be helped off the bike and helped up the stairs to my place. I can handle pain and suffering fairly well but I get the impression that you lose your ability to pace yourself on gear.
I know this is the strangest thing but I am also having trouble holding my TT position for more than 20 minutes at a time. I am getting pain similar to be in anaerobic state in my delts, neck and shoulder? I don't even have that problem when swimming?! I am not blaming everything on gear but I feel like even though I am stronger and I recover faster I can't seem to maintain my impressive stats over anything that takes longer than 25 minutes. do you have any experience with this?
Click to expand...
How much do you weigh? 450 watts for 25 min at almost any weight is world class brother. Impressive. Clearly you can handle pain. Are you on Anavar or winstrol? Look around the forums. I don't know many true endurance athletes that like any orals. Guys that are digging as deep as you are should think about staying away. Ive heard that you can get back pumps or cramps that will cause you to fall off of the bike. I think orals are ok for a super fit guy building a base, or big ring power, or riding a bunch of tempo days, but all out efforts don't seem to make sense in var. From what I've learned about Anavar, my experience tells me it's better suited for the winter and early spring.

Test, GH, Aromasin, GW(from what I've heard) , and 1 other thing that I don't mention on this board. That's the endurance stack. You won't lock up on this stack bro. You can go all day, really fast, and recover like no other. As you probably already know, Painful fucking ice baths are as good as gear for recovery.
 
What gear are you referring to? Just test? When I was running test and NPP I could have done Race across America in any position.
 
stretch512 said:
What gear are you referring to? Just test? When I was running test and NPP I could have done Race across America in any position.
Click to expand...
Yep. Test does not cause any cramps for me. Maybe he gets too aggressive and burns too many matches early on. Test can definitely cause that.
 
iwannagofaster said:
How much do you weigh? 450 watts for 25 min at almost any weight is world class brother. Impressive. Clearly you can handle pain. Are you on Anavar or winstrol? Look around the forums. I don't know many true endurance athletes that like any orals. Guys that are digging as deep as you are should think about staying away. Ive heard that you can get back pumps or cramps that will cause you to fall off of the bike. I think orals are ok for a super fit guy building a base, or big ring power, or riding a bunch of tempo days, but all out efforts don't seem to make sense in var. From what I've learned about Anavar, my experience tells me it's better suited for the winter and early spring.

Test, GH, Aromasin, GW(from what I've heard) , and 1 other thing that I don't mention on this board. That's the endurance stack. You won't lock up on this stack bro. You can go all day, really fast, and recover like no other. As you probably already know, Painful fucking ice baths are as good as gear for recovery.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I have an actual ice machine in the garage dude. Ice baths are part of my routine, to me they are more important than my nutrition. I might skip a meal or two or let a few days go by not monitoring my sugar intake and all but I almost never skip my ice baths.
Also that power output is the best I have ever done in my life, ever! Do not judge my athletic abilities by that. It was just one of those days where everything was perfect!
Another thing that is bothering me about gear is how little control I have over my weight. In my tip top shape I walk around 165 and 8-10% body fat at 5' 10. I get much leaner and lighter mid way through the August when I do my major races. Right now I am at 174 with a weird bloated belly that I absolutely hate.
I started test e only to recover from a hip injury from a crash that was causing knee issues and muscle imbalance. I wasn't really looking for a performance enhancement to be honest. What I found amazing is the improvements in my mood and sleep patterns. I decided to add anavar to for the last month of it to build some fast twitch and core muscle as well. Unbelievable results...... I can totally see why some people never come off!
 
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