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VASOCONSTRICTION vs. VASODILATION

Mateo123

Banned
Hey Evo Bros:

Ok...I wanted to see what peoples thoughts, theories, BRO-SCIENCE and facts were on the differences between Vasoconstriction vs. Vasodilation.

I have been doing some limited research and this is what I have basicly come up with so far. Without making all of this rocket science, Vasodilators open up blood vessels while Vasoconstrictors constrict blood vessels.

There are some huge claims out there that suggest that Vasodilators (otherwise known as NO products NO standing for Nitrus Oxide) actually promote the growth of muscle. Arginine is the active ingrediant in ALL of these OTC NO products. It is claimed that this compound increases and maintains a constantly high level of nitric oxide in muscle ultimately allowing for muscle growth. Again, there is a lot of science behind this but I am trying to keep this short and sweet.

Vasoconstrictors doing the opposite of what dilators due, are used more as stimulants. Some of examples of these would be Caffeine, Ephedrine and one that seems to be everyone's favorite....DMAA. The claim with constrictors is that it's an effective way to stimulate muscle hypertrophy with much lower intensity. (At the cost of higher blood pressure and heart rate!) In other words, its allows for you to work the muscle MORE, ultimately allowing for greater muscle growth.

Now...if you look into the research done it would seem from a NATTY standpoint that VASODILATORS are BS! The whole claim seems to hold no true scientific baking. However, there is no dought that NO products ESPECIALLY CHEMS ( Cialis, Viagra) increase your pump. With this, one of the claims put out there from numerous pros (RICH PIANNA) is that while on cycle muscle growth comes in two ways. 1) The traditional Hypertrophy way of working the muscle to failure by tearing it down and letting it build up. 2) BUT MOSTLY FROM THE PUMP DUE TO THE INCREASED BLOOD FLOW INTO THE MUSCLE FORCING THE MUSCLE FACIA TO EXPAND AND GROW. These pros claim that the MAJORITY of their gains have come from the painfull pumps they have endured while on cycle. :confused: In other words, THE PUMP IS WHAT YOU WANT FOR MUSCLE GROWH. Now I love the way the pump looks in the gym, but could the increased constant pump really be allowing for most of my gains?

Vasoconstrictors seem to me more dangerous and although they promote energy, the muscle building effects dont seem to be as pronounced. What are your thoughts? Are these products BS? Is the PUMP BS?
 
First, don't listen to Rich Piana. About anything. Ever.

Also, nitric oxide, not nitrous oxide for your car. That's all I got right now. EER and I had a long discussion about hemodynamics and the effects of vasoconstriction and vasodilation in another thread about Viagra pre workout.

Edit: ok one more thing. Vasoconstrictors are not used as stimulants. Vasoconstriction is a secondary effect of anything which induces sympathetic nervous stimulation. Therefore, stimulants cause vasoconstriction, as well as numerous other effects. The only reason a "vasoconstrictor" would be given (aldosterone derivative??? I'm not even sure that vasoconstricting drugs exist) would be in the treatment of hypotension or perhaps bradycardia.
 
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Vasodilation is simply blood flowing at a good rate, which is ideal for muscle building, and VC is the opposite.
 
First, don't listen to Rich Piana. About anything. Ever.

Also, nitric oxide, not nitrous oxide for your car. That's all I got right now. EER and I had a long discussion about hemodynamics and the effects of vasoconstriction and vasodilation in another thread about Viagra pre workout.

Edit: ok one more thing. Vasoconstrictors are not used as stimulants. Vasoconstriction is a secondary effect of anything which induces sympathetic nervous stimulation. Therefore, stimulants cause vasoconstriction, as well as numerous other effects. The only reason a "vasoconstrictor" would be given (aldosterone derivative??? I'm not even sure that vasoconstricting drugs exist) would be in the treatment of hypotension or perhaps bradycardia.
So....any thoughts to my questions?
 
oh and btw I did use the Sildenafil and low dosed it. No headache at all, felt like all my veins opened up and during lifting I wouldn't call it a pump but it did feel crazy. I will use it again sparingly. I had to go sit in on my sons MMA practice afterwards and slammed a redbull type drink (which I'm not a fan of) but did so to get some caffeine in me which did help the sides. Can't say I 100% enjoyed the effect but I do see its application now. As far as nitric oxide I have taken it but also read countless articles disclaiming its supposed function. Lots of people claiming it’s just a gimmick but I can tell when I have taken a nitric oxide with arginine before a long bike ride I felt amped up. I have some liquidecel that is straight protein and arginine and use that more often pre workout. A couple shots of that and I feel awake and ready.
 
So....any thoughts to my questions?

I don't think all NO products are BS, but some are. Particularly those pre-workouts with AAKG, Arginine, citrulline, ornithine rtx that are loaded up with stims like caffeine and 1,3 Dimethylamylamine.

I actually like BSN nitrix, but I hardly use any. I have years worth of Viagra and Cialis in my safe :/ As far as stimulants go, I'm a big fan of ECA.
 
I don't think all NO products are BS, but some are. Particularly those pre-workouts with AAKG, Arginine, citrulline, ornithine rtx that are loaded up with stims like caffeine and 1,3 Dimethylamylamine.

I actually like BSN nitrix, but I hardly use any. I have years worth of Viagra and Cialis in my safe :/ As far as stimulants go, I'm a big fan of ECA.
so your a fan of viagra and cialis? Never tried eiether. Do you feel the increased blood flow (pump) does anything to promote muscle growth?
 
Sorry vasoconstrictors are very dangerous and some can down right destroy your veins. I stay away from those and just use coffee it will give the same effect.
 
Brings up a great point!! Although Caffeine does work as a VC in some ways, ULTIMATELY it has more VD qualities? That could explain why it works well for people with Asthma.

No. The smooth muscle tissue in the bronchioles respond to stimulation of the beta receptors via catecholamines by relaxing. Neither VC or VD have anything to do with the effects of stimulation in asthmatics. Caffeine is a stimulant, which means it activates more sympathetic ANS (fight or flight division of AND) and you draw blood away from digestion and renal output, open airways and increase nervous stimulation of muscle fibers to prepare to fight the sabertooth tiger, or run away. If you notice fatter veins while on caffeine, it's from increased blood pressure.
 
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hahah - prepare to fight the sabertooth tiger, or run away.

- She said her name was Linda but yes, ruuunnn!!!
 
No. The smooth muscle tissue in the bronchioles respond to stimulation of the beta receptors via catecholamines by relaxing. Neither VC or VD have anything to do with the effects of stimulation in asthmatics. Caffeine is a stimulant, which means it activates more sympathetic ANS (fight or flight division of AND) and you draw blood away from digestion and renal output, open airways and increase nervous stimulation of muscle fibers to prepare to fight the sabertooth tiger, or run away. If you notice fatter veins while on caffeine, it's from increased blood pressure.
Norepinephrine and epinephrine mean that caffeine can selectively dilate your blood vessels based on what your body would need most in an emergency situation. For this reason, caffeine is generally considered to be a blood vessel dilator.
 
Norepinephrine and epinephrine mean that caffeine can selectively dilate your blood vessels based on what your body would need most in an emergency situation. For this reason, caffeine is generally considered to be a blood vessel dilator.

Where do you get this stuff? No, absolutely not. What do you mean by "epinephrine and norepinephrine mean..."? They don't mean anything, those are just the amines that mediate the function of stimulants.
 
Norepinephrine and epinephrine mean that caffeine can selectively dilate your blood vessels based on what your body would need most in an emergency situation. For this reason, caffeine is generally considered to be a blood vessel dilator.

Yep, very good post. Caffeine/coffee definitely causes vasoconstriction.
 
You mean diolator :)

That article makes some fine points, but to say that caffeine is generally known as a vasodilator is bogus. It concedes in the first two sections that vasoconstriction occurs in peripheral tissues and non essential organs, but it doesn't say that vasoconstriction occurs virtually EVERYWHERE except the heart, lungs and brain in response to catecholamine output. You can't call articles on live strong research man.
 
That article makes some fine points, but to say that caffeine is generally known as a vasodilator is bogus. It concedes in the first two sections that vasoconstriction occurs in peripheral tissues and non essential organs, but it doesn't say that vasoconstriction occurs virtually EVERYWHERE except the heart, lungs and brain in response to catecholamine output. You can't call articles on live strong research man.
The only point I wanted to bring out was that it effectively has both qualities.

edited: HENCE....IMO seems it would be the most effective, safe and economical pre-workout.
 
The only point I wanted to bring out was that it effectively has both qualities.

Ok. Yes it does, but if we're going down that road then you have to say that all stimulants have both qualities, including amphetamines. Stimulants ultimately boil down to their effect on adrenal output and the secondary effect of those products, namely E/NE on tissues. Generally speaking, we don't call ephedrine or dextroamphetamine vasodilators. Caffeine, while orders of magnitude less stimulators, shouldn't be called a vasodilator either.


Yes I totally agree with your last statement. Anything more excitatory than caffeine is a gamble with your health. Caffeine is safe and effective.
 
sourcenyne has pretty much set everyone right. My brain is fried right now. Just sat through a 3 hr licensing exam...ughhhh. Made a 90% :). Now I have two more to go in the next 2-3wks. Means pay raise lol.

Couple of pts:
1. I use Nitric oxide (NO) to premature babies and Status asthmaticus pts all the time. Usually 20-80ppm via nasal cannula or ventilator. This works directly on VASODIALTION of the Smooth Muscle of the pulmonary system. However, if released systemically can work on and artery or vein that has Beta 2 adrenergic receptors.
2. We give premature babies Caffeine and other amines to stimulate their respiratory drive....why???? B/c the Diaphragm is a SKELETAL muscle and can respond very well to stimulants. And usually respond to Alpha receptors…drugs like epinephrine, amines, ect…
 
So at least we all know that based on scientific evidence that Caffeine is a Vasodiolator...:)

edit: I am twisting the knife. Dont get all but hurt
 
So at least we all know that based on scientific evidence that Caffeine is a Vasodiolator...:)
Will-Ferrell-Confused-Stare.gif
 
You mean diolator :)

Local diolator, and so are: histamine, kinins, and prostaglandins, which allow more blood to flow to a certain area, where blood is needed most at a given time. Coffee would be considered ambiguous in relation to this subject, but its main role it plays is a vasoconstrictor
 
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So at least we all know that based on scientific evidence that Caffeine is a Vasodiolator...:)

edit: I am twisting the knife. Dont get all but hurt

if caffeine is a vasodilator then medical practice has been doing it wrong for a loooooooong time. There's just no way, b/c caffeine has little to no effect on beta 2 receptors....only alpha 1s
 
Sorry vasoconstrictors are very dangerous and some can down right destroy your veins. I stay away from those and just use coffee it will give the same effect.

yes and no. If you have a child who comes in with the croup, u need a vasoconstrictor. You have rhinitis or epistaxis, u prolly want a vasoconstrictor. They have their places in medicine for sure.
 
LOL....but seriously I dont know how these threads get taken WAYYY OFF TOPIC. My original question was......IS RICH PIANA FULL OF SHIT?....when it comes to the PUMP. If the claim holds any ground that you can grow via this route, than VASODIOLATORS would be where it is at. Thoughts?
 
LOL....but seriously I dont know how these threads get taken WAYYY OFF TOPIC. My original question was......IS RICH PIANA FULL OF SHIT?....when it comes to the PUMP. If the claim holds any ground that you can grow via this route, than VASODIOLATORS would be where it is at. Thoughts?

Well, no he's right about the stretching of fascia. It's why synthol can create real muscle gains and why pro's use the shit out of it. It creates more volume inside the fascia, expanding it. I don't know the exact way this works by for whatever reason it induces satellite cell proliferation and hyperplasia. Pumps that are strong enough to expand fascia and exercise routines like FST-7 designed for this are taking advantage of this process.
 
Well, no he's right about the stretching of fascia. It's why synthol can create real muscle gains and why pro's use the shit out of it. It creates more volume inside the fascia, expanding it. I don't know the exact way this works by for whatever reason it induces satellite cell proliferation and hyperplasia. Pumps that are strong enough to expand fascia and exercise routines like FST-7 designed for this are taking advantage of this process.
WELL THEN SHIT!!!:) Let all get on the train and start jacken up on NO products!!!
 
LOL....but seriously I dont know how these threads get taken WAYYY OFF TOPIC. My original question was......IS RICH PIANA FULL OF SHIT?....when it comes to the PUMP. If the claim holds any ground that you can grow via this route, than VASODIOLATORS would be where it is at. Thoughts?

1. Rich Piana like all bodybuilders make money pushing supps
2. AAS help send bloodflow and nutrients into the muscle giving you the wonderful thing we know as 'a pump'
3. pumps are good because when blood and nutrients go to the muscle it will obviously help you recover and grow, notice during your workout your muscles do temporarily actually get bigger and your vascularity improves
4. yes if you are natural those supps and stims out there that help achieve this are a good thing during your workout FOR THAT SPECIFIC goal. however not everyone reacts well to stims, I personally can't stand them. they fuck with my energy and sleep
5. when I train natty I don't get those crippling pumps like I do on gear. so if you are a natty lifter and want to get pumps then yes you should invest in those supplements that give you pumps
 
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I just think when you mess with the plumbing enough with constriction or dilation it can lead to problems and no one wants plumbing problems or pressure problems for that matter. I took your advice Steve and low dosed the sildenafil and I got the so called pump but I may not use it all the time as I could tell there might be some pressure issues using these kinds of PEDs often. Btw no headache or anything and yes I had drank a coffee the second time just a regular black cup, still got the pump. The first time I could tell the pump was very present everything was opened up.
 
I've read a lot about Low Dose of Cialis for a Pre-workout, never tried it though......................................JP
P.S.
Who all is doing the Cialis for a Pre-workout, and is it any Good - (Short Term vs Long Term)
P.S.S.
I forgot to add, I had heard that 5 to 10 mg was a good dose.
Thoughts Anyone ?
 
^^^ or you can just juice it up ... even something like oxand or dianabulk which are legal PH's will definitely work here

hell guys say even on SARM's they get pumps too and those aren't even hormones

Does not work that way for nattys. Again according to research, vasodilators don't contribute to muscle growth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Does not work that way for nattys. Again according to research, vasodilators don't contribute to muscle growth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

so you are saying a natural lifter can't get pumps? not sure what you are disagreeing with.

yeah bro you need to stop listening to research and start listening to guys who actually have experience. you can watch all the Ian McPoptart youtube vids all you want but its not gonna make you swole listening to that geek. the research on muscle building is lacking in terms of picking up a science book and learning how to build muscle and strength, if it was cut and dry there wouldn't be a million different ways to do it. instead we have a zillion books out there with different strategies.

focus on.

1. working out 4X per week an hour per day.
2. eating

and doing both of those the right way and you will build muscle.. this isn't rocket science or mapping the pig genome
 
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Vasodilators are actually prescribed for heart conditions sometimes actually to promote blood flow. A MAJOR side effect of these could be low blood pressure, but these are for people who have consumed them for prolonged periods of time.

As far as stimulants such as caffeine which are vasoconstrictor, well most pre workouts contain caffeine in them, and although there isn't necessarily a lethal dosage for caffeine, it probably isn't a good idea in the long run for heart health. You will see many pre-workouts contain taurine to take the edge off of caffeine so to speak. It is also a great supplement for heart health.

From what i have read is Nitric Oxide causes the blood vessels to dilate and pull in more glucose, as well as transfer more nutrients to your muscles more effectively. Which makes sense that it would drop your sugars. But i have already read some things that Diabetes notoriously are low in nitric oxide in their blood. From what i can make out is that when we have high sugars the increased glucose causes the cell functions to change and doing so it uses up the NO and causes the vessels to constrict, which is bad for our hearts and eyes, and pretty much everything.
 
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