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Whats up fellas. Just joined the site. Wanted to say hello. Was told two days ago I have low T. Kinda. lol. I got pissed at my doctor. I went to him almost 3 years ago when I was 37 complaining of fatigue, muscle aches, sleeping issues, loss of libido etc. They did blood tests and he called me and said everything was "normal". So I went about my life just dealing with it. Had more blood work done recently by another dr for stomach issues and he advised me to talk to my primary about my test levels. I asked why and he said well its on the low side of "normal". So I got more blood work done end of February and they told me my level was 245ng. Range was 240-950, so he said well your normal!! I asked well what the hell was my T level 3 years ago when I came to you complaining of these symptoms and he said 300ng. Holy S*it i was pissed. I can't believe he considered 245 or even 300 "normal" for a man my age. So needless to say he discussed TRT treatments which I just found out today insurance will not cover injections and even if they did he wanted me to come in for every injection. Ive read the gels are a waste of time. So in doing my research I have stumbled upon this site because it looks like I will have to do this on my own. So that's my story. I will prob just read a lot here and try to learn as much as I can. I am no expert by any means. I've done a few cycles in my life nothing big. Looking forward to any advice or pointers, anything you guys can give me.
fortitude18
Banned
Yup bro....Happen to me years ago as well.....325 TRT got raised to 900 to 1100.....You feel a lot better in about 4 weeks time.....You learn a lot from the good brothers and sisters of EVO......Def stick around read as much as can.....I learn everyday
Thanks for the reply. Yeah I am on a mission to find how I can raise my levels and feel better. I just have no idea where to order from and all that stuff. So hopefully I will learn a lot here and feel better soon! I just can't believe how doctors can brush a person off who obviously has symptoms and blood work shows I am low for someone my age. Yet because some jackass decided to make a broad range, I am considered "normal". Man did I let him have it. This could have been taken care of years ago!
Thanks Redam! Happy to have found this site. Now I have hope that I'll be feeling better soon. I've learned so much about low T already just by visiting different sites. Now its time to take action!
Thank you! Glad to be here
jbranken
Advanced Cyborg Brother
Docs are pathetic when it comes to hormones. Gotta self prescribe
yeah I was wondering what range would be optimal to feel good. so your at 550 and feel good? Im sure its different for everyone. I was gonna start at around 150 to 200 mgs a week and see how I feel. Seems from what Ive been reading that is a common dosage.
Yeah thats what Im thinking and why Im here. To try to find a legit source and product. Funny how once your health declines what you'll do to feel better. You are 100% right. The medical field is a joke.
fortitude18
Banned
TRT docs are everywhere.....You have to almost shop around for them or get a referral if you want a good one that you can be honest with......well that is california at least......A lot of them cost though and insurance does not cover most.....FYI....My doc says the gels cause more hair loss faster if your prone to hair loss so she recommends injection.(Not sure she is right)....I travel with cream and inject when home)))Makes it easier....
But TRT Doc shows you how to inject and sends your stuff by fed X every 3 months along with HCG and you can buy ghrp 2 and 6 and few other peptides..Also get script for Arimadex so AI never a problem... you can also get travel script for test and HGH if your over 50....hard to find Docs to prescribe HGH now a days because feds cracking down....I was told by the doc that what the feds look for with clinics and anti aging Doctors.....I was told that by three different doctors while shopping around for my TRT doc...Obviously I wanted HGH since I used it on and off for years while playing sports back in my hay day and believed me shopping around make lot of difference .
But TRT Doc shows you how to inject and sends your stuff by fed X every 3 months along with HCG and you can buy ghrp 2 and 6 and few other peptides..Also get script for Arimadex so AI never a problem... you can also get travel script for test and HGH if your over 50....hard to find Docs to prescribe HGH now a days because feds cracking down....I was told by the doc that what the feds look for with clinics and anti aging Doctors.....I was told that by three different doctors while shopping around for my TRT doc...Obviously I wanted HGH since I used it on and off for years while playing sports back in my hay day and believed me shopping around make lot of difference .
fortitude18
Banned
I am at a 100 mg and it keeps me around 900....My first doc wanted me at 500 to 700.....that why shop around...they all have different ranges
Yeah I called insurance yesterday and they said they dont cover testosterone. Blue Cross. My doc said he would have to inject me, I think he just wants the visit fee. I asked about HCG and Arimadex and he said I didn't need any of that. Low dose I guess. So now that insurance won't help I need to find it myself. Street prices are ridiculous. So I'm researching as much as I can. My buddy told me to start using peptides, GHRP 2 and CJC 1295 w/o DAC and see if it helps release natural GH
fortitude18
Banned
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Sky6150
Proficient Brother
Dr. Has me on 100mg of Watson test cyp. every 7 days. That work for me, but every one is different. I first started with Andro gel. That shit wouldn't keep me at a level range. My wife is an RN so talked my endo. To let her pin me. So I get a scrip with pins. My Ins won't cover the oil, but only pay $45 for 10ml of 200mg test cyp. Funny thing is ins would cover the gel @ $4. Worth the extra $ for me.
fortitude18
Banned
Peptieds def work but obviously not the same as real HGH but they def work bro
I will check that out thanks!
yeah Ive read Watson makes a legit product, now I just have to find a reputable source to get it. I was throwing all this info in my docs face. I told him I read it was better to inject every week cuz of the half life of test - he wanted to do it every two weeks. I said Ive heard there was too much of a roller coaster by the end of the second week. He goes "no we will inject you with enough not have that happen". I didnt like anything I heard from him
fortitude18
Banned
People swear by it on EVO.....I just ordered some so I do not know from first hand but the N2 guard is nice while using gear to protect the organs...
fortitude18
Banned
my doc has me do 50mg twice a week to keep my levels steady until of course I do a cycle ....
Yeah see your doctor seems intelligent. I said that to my doc and he just brushed me off and said two weeks is fine especially cuz i would have to go into his office to get injected
Not sure what all that is. Sorry for the newb questions...
fortitude18
Banned
What city?
Loadcoil78
Buff Brother
I felt fine, had a vasectomy, a month later felt like a lazy piece of crap. I went to the doctor. He wouldn't even test my blood. Patted me on the back and said "it was all in my head". Went down the street to my other local doctor. He also laughed but told me if I was paying he would test my blood all I wanted. I was around 250, so he put me on 200mg of cyp every 3 wks. What a joke. I tried to explain the half life issue with injecting every 3 weeks. He just sat there with a dumb look on his face.
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fortitude18
Banned
I am sure you find what you need here eventually....It a great community with lots of experience bros here ...I would just stick around and participate and listen to VIP and Mods when it comes to how the board is run....That what I did...I have not been here that long but met some good people already....
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It pisses me off that I have to sit there and explain to a doctor who makes 100 times what I make the facts about shit he should know
I am sure you find what you need here eventually....It a great community with lots of experience bros here ...I would just stick around and participate and listen to VIP and Mods when it comes to how the board is run....That what I did...I have not been here that long but met some good people already....
Sounds like a plan. Thanks
The city where my doc is?? Waterbury
Yeah, you guys can't believe how happy I was to find this site. There is lots of info on the net, but people don't talk sources and all that. That makes it hard for newbies like myself who are left to try and self prescribe and make ourselves feel healthy again. Looking forward to learning as much as I can from whoever is kind enough to share and help me out. I'll do whatever I can to help in return. Thanks!
fortitude18
Banned
Paja has spoken
fortitude18
Banned
Cool bro...just making sure your not in ca....I only know ca docs...
Sky6150
Proficient Brother
Paja has spoken
Oooo ahhhh, king has waved at us common bro's! Paja and others like him are the professors. Us noobs learn. Thanks professors...
paja
Banned
Paja has spoken
Lol I didn't said nothing bro lol
fortitude18
Banned
LOL.....I like the PR comment.....navigation can be a bitch sometimes
Very true. And forget the insurance companies. I pay all this money every month and they pick and choose what they deem necessary to cover. Apparently me feeling like dog Sh*t and having a low standard of living is not deemed necessary lol
dirtydeed
Cyborg Humanoid Brother
Had same happen to me, labwork flagged me as low & the 1st endo I was sent to ran new bw and used his old range scale and told me I was normal when I was below 300
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Yeah its a sh*tty thing to have happen. People rely on the doctors knowing what they're doing and after doing my own research found out that 245 is extremely low for a 39 yr old man. But it falls in their normal scale which my own doctor acknowledged shouldn't be used. I got so angry when he admitted that. I said then why did you say I was normal when I came to you with symptoms. He said people can have a level of 300 and still feel fine. Well I didnt! Unreal.
Loadcoil78
Buff Brother
They don't care anymore! Just get you out so they can get to the next person.
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dirtydeed
Cyborg Humanoid Brother
Exactly. That's why the values were raised, if you go in with symptoms that should be the obvious sign that your body wants more
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I've been preaching this about doctors for years and have met A LOT of resistance from people. nice to see people are finally waking up
look I work in the financial field and 95% of people I work with are morons.. most stock brokers and financial advisors are clueless.. accountants fuck up your taxes all the time which causes you to get audits... people make mistakes.
what do you expect with doctors who have to get to their tennis match? docs have no clue about this stuff, they aren't taught it in med school. its probably a blessing he won't hook you up because he would probably fuck that up too .. its like going to Olive Garden to get real Italian food lol
in your case either find a TRT clinic or self prescribe.. if you want to go the legal route than grab some RS transaderm cream which is legal and is DHEA based, it will boost your T levels. http://www.ruthlesssupplements.com/123.html << you can go here and order or you can PM me and I can hook you up with a nice deal
look I work in the financial field and 95% of people I work with are morons.. most stock brokers and financial advisors are clueless.. accountants fuck up your taxes all the time which causes you to get audits... people make mistakes.
what do you expect with doctors who have to get to their tennis match? docs have no clue about this stuff, they aren't taught it in med school. its probably a blessing he won't hook you up because he would probably fuck that up too .. its like going to Olive Garden to get real Italian food lol
in your case either find a TRT clinic or self prescribe.. if you want to go the legal route than grab some RS transaderm cream which is legal and is DHEA based, it will boost your T levels. http://www.ruthlesssupplements.com/123.html << you can go here and order or you can PM me and I can hook you up with a nice deal
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dirtydeed
Cyborg Humanoid Brother
And even some if the ones that will give you a test script have no idea how it's goin to effect your estrogen...I love the testosterone commercials that list all the sides like irritated or sensitive nipples....hello high estrogen
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fortitude18
Banned
People forget it very hard to fail out of Medical school and or grad school itself......It actually goes against the national ranking of how schools are ranked.....So it is the job of the school to get you through.....Even if you suck ass....A friend of min teaches at USC grad school......and she feels the pressure to pass people from her superiors....She said not in undergrad but once in grad school she tells me you have to be a idiot to not graduate.....
Loadcoil78
Buff Brother
fortitude18
Banned
There is always the bottom of the class in medical school....A good referral is gold in life
Yeah very true. That seems to be the hard part! LOL getting a good referral. then you have to hope insurance covers it lol
Yeah that is the plan. That is why I'm happy I found this site. Hopefully some good people will turn me onto which sources to use so I don't get ripped off. I wanted to do it the legit way and go thru docs and insurance but they are no help. I can already see I am going to get more knowledge and better advice here.
True, bc they rely heavily on the MCAT to sort out/weed out the "below avg/avg" people. When I was in grad school I saw one person kicked out. Now where I went if you got a C, you went on academic probation, you got another C you were gone. I didn't go to med school, but now work in the medical field.
Yeah me too. That is seriously F'd up. People rely on them knowing what they're doing. Scary
Thank you, I appreciate that offer. After what Ive been reading I prefer to do the injections. So I am gonna wait.
MONEY bro.. MONEY. med schools are for profit. not only do they want to put you through, but they don't want you to quit and they want you to keep paying them (or in many cases mommy and daddy)
that's the problem... there are things that should NOT be for profit.
1. education
2. military
3. medical
Inkslingingfreak
Growing Brother
I'm in the same boat my dr doesn't want to prescribe anything it's almost as if I would be taking it from his own personel stash or something.... Told me that test would make my nuts look like peanuts lol
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Inkslingingfreak
Growing Brother
I'm 42 and several years ago I out myself on my own hrt I feel a thousand times better than I did
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You should have said "well if you read anything moron you would know thats why many docs prescribe HCG along with test". Amazing how you have to teach them and they make all the money
Yeah that is what I am going to do. Ive been feeling like this for almost 3 years and its getting worse, so Ive done a lot of reading. Now its time to help myself
Loadcoil78
Buff Brother
You won't regret it. Study up and get after it
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Inkslingingfreak
Growing Brother
At 42 trt has flipped my life around I pin 250 mg of test e every seven days and run ghrp2 and cjc no dac 1-3 x a day def turned back the clock a few years
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Atrox
Growing Brother
Proman- I can't tell you how happy I was to read this. I felt like I was nuts lately. I told my doctor that how I feel matches up check box by check box with Low-T symptoms. He tested me and I was at right around 300 +/- a few points. He tells me the same shit you were handed- it's normal. I asked him "Well isn't the normal range something like 250-1100?" and he says "Yes". The whole conversation after that I don't remember much because I kept thinking "If the range is that broad, then the numbers must be related to age. I'm 42 so there is no WAY I'm g2g". At some point, he said "hormone therapy" and I tuned back in. He tells me that the director of the office I go to set guidelines where if it's normal and low, but not below a certain number, they can't do therapy because of a risk of blood clots and whatever else. Then he gives me shit because I told him I would rather RISK something and feel great than risk NOTHING and continue to have no interest in my wife, be unable to sleep but feel sleepy all the time, not run around with my 8 year old because I'm sore, yardwork kills me for 3 or 4 days...you know the list. I think if I want to risk sides from Test therapy it should be my call. Anything has to be better than right now.
Up until actually reading this post, I thought I was the only guy walking around pissed off all the time about this. Christ man, the bros here know so much I can't even wrap my head around it. I didn't even realize before this month that lifters and serious BBs were so deep in the weeds when it comes to safe us of gear, and all the ancillaries and PCT to keep sides to minimum, or even non-existent. Hell I never heard of PCT before.
Dylan M set me up with a great plan to get back into shape using SARMS and some N2BM products, but honestly the more I read here the more I think I might just try something along the lines of basic, practical therapy and put my money where my mouth is--and find out once and for all if increased test makes me feel better, and actually brings me up to the normal range. I can barely remember a time in the last 10 years I haven't woken up and my first thought is "GODDAMIT, I FEEL LIKE SHIT AGAIN." I passed a kidney stone and they said "Well didn't your back hurt? You should have had some symptoms before it got to being passed." I explained my back ALWAYS hurts, some days more than others, so how the hell would I notice the new pain?
Hell, my brother is 37, he did a few cycles because he's 6 foot 2 but was always skinny, now he's a beast, and his normal walking around test level is about 8 or 9 HUNDRED. No wonder he can't keep a girlfriend around because he ends up cheating.
Anyway, thank you so much for posting your situation, and also a big thanks to the bros who took the time to say "You aren't the only one- try this out". Love this board.
Up until actually reading this post, I thought I was the only guy walking around pissed off all the time about this. Christ man, the bros here know so much I can't even wrap my head around it. I didn't even realize before this month that lifters and serious BBs were so deep in the weeds when it comes to safe us of gear, and all the ancillaries and PCT to keep sides to minimum, or even non-existent. Hell I never heard of PCT before.
Dylan M set me up with a great plan to get back into shape using SARMS and some N2BM products, but honestly the more I read here the more I think I might just try something along the lines of basic, practical therapy and put my money where my mouth is--and find out once and for all if increased test makes me feel better, and actually brings me up to the normal range. I can barely remember a time in the last 10 years I haven't woken up and my first thought is "GODDAMIT, I FEEL LIKE SHIT AGAIN." I passed a kidney stone and they said "Well didn't your back hurt? You should have had some symptoms before it got to being passed." I explained my back ALWAYS hurts, some days more than others, so how the hell would I notice the new pain?
Hell, my brother is 37, he did a few cycles because he's 6 foot 2 but was always skinny, now he's a beast, and his normal walking around test level is about 8 or 9 HUNDRED. No wonder he can't keep a girlfriend around because he ends up cheating.
Anyway, thank you so much for posting your situation, and also a big thanks to the bros who took the time to say "You aren't the only one- try this out". Love this board.
36M here. Sorry to piggy back on this thread.... but would like a little insight. I've lifting hard 3x a week and in a calorie deficit since late December 2013. I've taken one week off the diet. During my winter bulk my test serum was 579, as of this week it's 323. A drop like that during a long period of caloric restriction is to be expected. (right?) My deficit hasn't been too crazy.. ive dropped 14 lbs in 13 weeks.
devildog
Evolutionary Retired
My hrt doc had a patient who was preparing for the Hawaii ironman, and he wound up with levels close to that of a female. This is rare, but yes, can happen. I'd say your situation is a little more common.
yeah finding this board helped me wrap my head around this and I dont feel nearly as bad about it as I did when I first heard. Alot of good people here man so just absorb what they have to say. I'll try and help to if i can. I just started my injections last Thurs so stay tuned
did the vasectomy cause it? cause i'm thinking of getting one in a few years, just curious
Loadcoil78
Buff Brother
I don't know for sure. I had one doc say it couldn't have and another say he had heard the same complaints as mine from a few others in the past. If I'm not mistaken the pamplet I read before the surgery warned that it was possible. Had a good friend use the same doc for same surgery 3 days later. He didn't experience trouble after surgery.
Atrox
Growing Brother
Looks like Proman forgot he was gonna keep us filled in.
On another note, a 34 year old friend of mine was a die hard BB in the Navy, very fit, full of energy. He got snipped and said it was like he was plugged in to a power plant before the operation, and someone just cut the cord after. He wound up on 300mg test cyp under his doctor's care ever since about 2 years ago. I asked him how he convinced his doc, and he said "I told him I was gonna do it with or without him". I haven't tried that approach. Yet.
On another note, a 34 year old friend of mine was a die hard BB in the Navy, very fit, full of energy. He got snipped and said it was like he was plugged in to a power plant before the operation, and someone just cut the cord after. He wound up on 300mg test cyp under his doctor's care ever since about 2 years ago. I asked him how he convinced his doc, and he said "I told him I was gonna do it with or without him". I haven't tried that approach. Yet.
Join the club bro...I'm 250-300...male T levels have been declining for decades now thanks to the high xenoestrogens and pesticide levels that are wreaking havoc on our endocrine systems and creating negative feedback loops...
Studies indicate the difference in muscle levels are not overly significant but the difference in fat is very significant as are inflammation levels(T is highly anti inflammatory)
You need to realize your doctor works for you not the other way around. The conversation is "Either you can do it or ill find a doctor who will--your choice". Evidence is overwhelming that high normal range T levels keep men healthier, less inflamed and less fat than low T levels. In fact, a study done showed that after 8 weeks even between men at 600 T levels, half of whom were given a substance that caused their levels to drop to 300 had a 36% increase in fat over the men whose levels stayed at 600. And this is only 8 weeks...
Just make sure to get your hematocrit levels checked every few months and get blood drawn if it gets too thick, and drink tart cherry or pomegranate juice to help keep it in line
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Sorry man, just been crazy busy. Its been about 4 weeks and my sleep has been much better. Lifting sessions have been better as my strength is up and energy is back. Cardio has been hard tho cuz of my lower leg issues which have gotten worse. Not sure if that may be because of my E2 levels. Lower legs are sore and tight all the time. Moods have been steady too. My libido hasn't really changed much. First couple weeks I was waking with wood again but the last week nothing. I was told by a few guys here that 250mgs a week is too much and my E2 levels might be high. I'm gonna lower to 100mgs a week for a couple weeks and then get my bloods done
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I guess. I was under the impression that cruising was pretty much the same as trt weekly levels. Just interested in getting my health back, especially my libido lol
Inkslingingfreak
Growing Brother
So getting snipped affects your natty test?i was under the impression it didn't ...I would be pissed if I had that done and wasn't informed
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good question. I would think from a psychological standpoint knowing you can't spread your seed would have an effect
Inkslingingfreak
Growing Brother
I'm pretty sure they still work just sperm doesn't make it past the sack or whatever lol looked into it after my 3 rd kid and my divorce 
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Word has it that, "99% of guys on TRT are just abusing the system."
Apparently it's easy as hell to get TRT. "99% of doctors just hand over a script after only one blood test."
Of course it wasn't so easy for me, but then my life never has been that easy.
Wait! That must mean I am a 1%'er!!!
Apparently it's easy as hell to get TRT. "99% of doctors just hand over a script after only one blood test."
Of course it wasn't so easy for me, but then my life never has been that easy.
Wait! That must mean I am a 1%'er!!!
me too im 40 going through it with my doctor now. i got all my bloods done and hes like you dont need to do all these tests. im like i want to know and i explained to him what good is average test levels if i have higher then average SHBG binding it all up making it almost useless or high estroidal levels from aromatising it all. i do hope he dosent need to do more bloodwork though as i just started a cycle of Test E right after my bloods were drawn.
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