first cycle ever (cutting)

[fury09]

hi all

ive decided to start a cutting cycle. ive never got the results i expect just from very clean diets and workout plans with cardio. need something extra
im 25, 5'7, 181 lb, 16% bf and training 5 years now. maybe some of you will tell me to drop more bf first but ive decided to take this route

ive read beginner guides on some forums and also seen popular stacks like winny/equpoise or winny/test and others but its my first cycle and i was thinking of just test enanthate. i really just need something to maintain my current muscle mass and ive heard any anabolic steroid can help with that. im happy with my natural gains and dont want to go on a bulking cycle.

so from what ive read i was thinking

week 1-12: test enanthate 500mg/week
week 1-12: adex 1 mg eod (cant find 0.25mg or 0.5mg tablets. only 1 mg capsules which i cant split)

week 15-18: clomid 50/50/25/25 or 50/50/50/50?
week 15-18: nolvadex 40/40/20/20

i am not sure if i can get hcg. i will update you about this soon.
and of course, liv52, fish oil, multivitamins for support.

what do you think? if there are any changes or suggestions, please do tell.

thanks!

 

[nvr2lt]

Well, to start, if your not loosing weight from a clean diet that's on point and a great exercise program, your not doing something right. If your in a caloric deficit, there's no way you will maintain weight, unless your putting on muscle. Doing AAS at a high BF% will only cause more sides and ultimately, not give you the results your looking for. However, I can see your not interested in doing things the healthy correct way, so, let's just get to the meat of it.

Ever thought about Sarms from Sarms1.com? There are plenty of logs here showing Carerine helps loose fat. I would suggest a Carderine and Osterine cycle. Much less suppressive.

Next, HCG is only going to give you an unwanted Estrogen rebound that you don't want. Skip the HCG.

Skip the Adex as well and use Aromasin, as it is a suicide AI and much better than Adex. 12.5mgs EOD.

Since you just going to use AAS anyway, do the 500mgs/wk split in to 2 pins, Monday and Thursday to keep you blood work stable.

Blood work is the most important part of any cycle. Pre-bloods, 4-6 weeks in get bloods done and 4 weeks after pct get them done. If you don't, your just asking for problems.

Your PCT is very outdated. You should follow this PCT Protocol, which also tells you about a better organ support, N2Guard.
http://www.evolutionary.org/the-perfect-post-cycle-therapy-pct/



No Excuses, Never Quit and Its Never To Late

 

[nvr2lt]

Sorry, make sure to have 100% of everything before you start. Including your PCT sups.


No Excuses, Never Quit and Its Never To Late

 

[muskate]

Here is a good video for you to watch on how to properly run a first steroid cycle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqBLCSaKsW4

Overall your cycle looks really good. Two tips
1. A good AI dosage is arimidex 0.5mg EOD. You can break the tablets in half and just use a half tablet each day.
2. You need a much better PCT protocol. After your cycle run the perfect PCT protocol -> http://www.evolutionary.org/the-perfect-post-cycle-therapy-pct/
You do NOT want to use HCG in your PCT protocol because it is suppressive of natural testosterone production. Follow the perfect PCT protocol exactly as laid out and have nothing to worry about.

 

[LevButlerov]

If getting lean is all you want, I would rather recommend you to opt for SARMS - they will get you where you want, and yet they will cause considerably less side effects. In fact, there will barely be any side effects at all with SARMS, whilst with AAS you will have to deal with both side effects, and will have to run a proper PCT.

But the SARMS will burn your fat while maintaining your lean mass, and will provide you with a very good performance boost, which will also help you progress even further.

 

[fury09]

Next, HCG is only going to give you an unwanted Estrogen rebound that you don't want. Skip the HCG.
Skip the Adex as well and use Aromasin, as it is a suicide AI and much better than Adex. 12.5mgs EOD.

the pct protocol suggests aromasin for pct and many say adex during cycle. sorry im just a little confused about what exactly to follow

1. A good AI dosage is arimidex 0.5mg EOD. You can break the tablets in half and just use a half tablet each day.
2. You need a much better PCT protocol. After your cycle run the perfect PCT protocol -> http://www.evolutionary.org/the-perfect-post-cycle-therapy-pct/
You do NOT want to use HCG in your PCT protocol because it is suppressive of natural testosterone production. Follow the perfect PCT protocol exactly as laid out and have nothing to worry about.

i spoke to a couple of suppliers i know and unfortunately i will not have ostarine and cardarine for pct. i can get armomasin though. and hcg isnt needed at any point? even during cycle? that would be a relief because i wont have that either

ive come across different opinions on adex such as 0.25 mg and 0.5 mg ed and also 0.25 mg every other day (eod). i would like to know the reason behind using a higher dose such as 0.5 mg ed and why not 0.25 ed or 0.25 eod.

also 2 questions about my cycle -
1) do i need 500 mg/week of test e or will 250-300 be enough for a cut?
2) can i add winny 50mg/ed (injectible) at the last 6 weeks of my cycle? people say it dries you up and hardens the muscles but i want to do it only if its a lasting thing. im not going to compete so no point in doing that if the hardness is temporary. i know i cant be dry forever.

LevButlerov: thanks for your suggestion but i dont think i can get a hold of sarms either.

but my main concern here is pct and ai. i will ultimately have nolva clomid and aromasin for pct. i can get adex as an ai but need a final opinion on the dosage

thanks guys

 

[Masonic Bodybuilder]

For a first cycle just keep it very simple...test at 500mg per week with an AI. Preferable aromasin at 10mg EOD but if you already have the adex just run it at .5mg EOD. The reason for different doses like .25mg vs .5mg is that everyone reacts differently. You will need blood work mid cycle to verify estrogen is at a good place. These bloods will also tell you the quality of your gear. You do not want to add winny at 16% body fat. Steroids do not burn fat so its not like you will be 10% by the end of your cycle. Winny is best when you are already at a lower body fat.

 

[fury09]

For a first cycle just keep it very simple...test at 500mg per week with an AI. Preferable aromasin at 10mg EOD but if you already have the adex just run it at .5mg EOD. The reason for different doses like .25mg vs .5mg is that everyone reacts differently. You will need blood work mid cycle to verify estrogen is at a good place. These bloods will also tell you the quality of your gear. You do not want to add winny at 16% body fat. Steroids do not burn fat so its not like you will be 10% by the end of your cycle. Winny is best when you are already at a lower body fat.

how does this look -

week 1-12: test e 500mg/week (250 on tuesday, 250 on friday)
week 1-12: adex 1 mg twice a week (wednesdays and saturdays?) ---> i can only find 1 mg liquid caps so theres no way to split them. what do you feel about this dosing? its equivalent to 0.5 EOD but same half life, so not sure. this is the only thing preventing me from starting right away.

week 15-18: aromasin 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25 EOD (4 weeks)
week 15-19: nolva 40/20/20/20/10 ED (5 weeks)
week 15-19: clomid 50/50/25/25/12.5 ED (5 weeks)

no HCG during cycle.

thanks for your response

 

[Jay Scott]

how does this look -

week 1-12: test e 500mg/week (250 on tuesday, 250 on friday)
week 1-12: adex 1 mg twice a week (wednesdays and saturdays?) ---> i can only find 1 mg liquid caps so theres no way to split them. what do you feel about this dosing? its equivalent to 0.5 EOD but same half life, so not sure. this is the only thing preventing me from starting right away.

week 15-18: aromasin 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25 EOD (4 weeks)
week 15-19: nolva 40/20/20/20/10 ED (5 weeks)
week 15-19: clomid 50/50/25/25/12.5 ED (5 weeks)

no HCG during cycle.

thanks for your response

Looks pretty solid to me.

Add a good test booster during pct as well, it will help you with recovery for sure

 

[fury09]

my mate at the gym suggested adding a shot of winny 50mg EOD into the mix. Masonic Bodybuilder said above there's no need at my bf but would it be of any harm if i added it?
and is my adex dose @ 1mg twice a week ok? still not sure about this one

Looks pretty solid to me.
Add a good test booster during pct as well, it will help you with recovery for sure

would tribulus do?

 

[nvr2lt]

You are able to get Sarms from Sarms1.com and everything else from N2BM.com and ag-guys.com there is no reason you can't get the proper pct and AI before you start and hurt your health.


No Excuses, Never Quit and Its Never To Late

 

[fury09]

with 250mg test e/week and 50mg winstrol EOD, do i still need 0.25mg adex eod? ive read that winstrol limits aromatization well and some people dont use ai as precaution unless there are gyno symptoms etc.
i guess i can look out for sides and up the dose to 0.5mg eod or such, but what should i follow initially in the first week or two?

 

[nvr2lt]

You need an AI when running Test. I would use Aromasin at 10.0mgs/EOD. There is no reason not to do it if you cycle properly. 4 weeks in, blood work will tell you where you stand on your E2 and every other value. Your need bloods pre cycle, 4 weeks in and 4 weeks post PCT. blood work should be one of your biggest tools to cycle! Keep us posted and once you get bloods, black out your personal info and post them here so we can help you stay on track.


No Excuses, Never Quit and Its Never To Late

 

[fury09]

You need an AI when running Test. I would use Aromasin at 10.0mgs/EOD. There is no reason not to do it if you cycle properly. 4 weeks in, blood work will tell you where you stand on your E2 and every other value. Your need bloods pre cycle, 4 weeks in and 4 weeks post PCT. blood work should be one of your biggest tools to cycle! Keep us posted and once you get bloods, black out your personal info and post them here so we can help you stay on track.

what adex dose what you recommend and how often? i dont have aromasin. ill be using test e 250mg/week and winstrol 50mg eod.
thanks for the advice

 

[nvr2lt]

.5mgs/EOD will be a good dose. Just make sure to get your bloods to keep an eye on things.


No Excuses, Never Quit and Its Never To Late

 

[fury09]

thanks for your inputs everybody!

ill keep you updated on my progress.

 

[nvr2lt]

By the way, please don't confuse AAS with fat burning. They don't burn fat. They only enhance a diet that's on point and a great exercise program. You might not get what your looking for just thinking adding AAS will help. If you can't loose weight by diet and cardio, your not going to loose it on any AAS. I'm still confused. You stated you never got the results you were looking for by diet and cardio. Then you say you just need something to maintain your current muscle mass. You will more than like add lean muscle, but not see it at your BF%... Just a thought. How come you can get AAS but not Sarms, Aromasin, etc...? Sarms a legal to sell as a research chemical.

 

[fury09]

By the way, please don't confuse AAS with fat burning. They don't burn fat. They only enhance a diet that's on point and a great exercise program. You might not get what your looking for just thinking adding AAS will help. If you can't loose weight by diet and cardio, your not going to loose it on any AAS.

yes i completely understand that.

How come you can get AAS but not Sarms, Aromasin, etc...? Sarms a legal to sell as a research chemical.

im not in a position to be able to order anything online as of now. i havent had a card for the past few months and id rather not reveal my use of such supplements/AAS to my friends and get them to order it for me.

aromasin is quite expensive, and i can add it to my pct if needed. during cycle, i would prefer adex if it is a decent choice. however i still cant decide whether aromasin is needed for pct. ive read the "perfect pct guide" here but according to the opinions of many people across different boards, i rarely ever see anybody suggest adding aromasin.

 

[fury09]

@Moderators: sorry for double posting, but it seems to me like theres no edit option on this forum

back on topic: ive got a bottle of an ephedrine based fat burner (black mamba) which ive used a few times in the past. would it be ok to use it when i do my cardio on an empty stomach in the morning? i would like a little energy boost and the slightly accelerated fat loss as well. or is it an overkill since im already on test and winny (in the sense that im putting a lot of artificial compounds in my body)?

 

[muskate]

@Moderators: sorry for double posting, but it seems to me like theres no edit option on this forum

back on topic: ive got a bottle of an ephedrine based fat burner (black mamba) which ive used a few times in the past. would it be ok to use it when i do my cardio on an empty stomach in the morning? i would like a little energy boost and the slightly accelerated fat loss as well. or is it an overkill since im already on test and winny (in the sense that im putting a lot of artificial compounds in my body)?

Stimulants are fine in moderation but over using them will lead to adrenal fatigue and raise cortisol levels. You can use the black mamba fat burner, just be mindful of all the other stimulants you take the rest of the day.

- - - Updated - - -

yes i completely understand that.



im not in a position to be able to order anything online as of now. i havent had a card for the past few months and id rather not reveal my use of such supplements/AAS to my friends and get them to order it for me.

aromasin is quite expensive, and i can add it to my pct if needed. during cycle, i would prefer adex if it is a decent choice. however i still cant decide whether aromasin is needed for pct. ive read the "perfect pct guide" here but according to the opinions of many people across different boards, i rarely ever see anybody suggest adding aromasin.

Aromasin is a better choice then arimidex because it is a suicide AI so there will be no estrogen rebound when you discontinue usage.

You need to include an AI like aromasin in your PCT. Remember that the detection time of long estered steroids like test e and test cyp is 4-6 weeks. They will still be in your system and aromatizing into estrogen 4-6 weeks after your last injection.

 

[stevesmi]

@Moderators: sorry for double posting, but it seems to me like theres no edit option on this forum

back on topic: ive got a bottle of an ephedrine based fat burner (black mamba) which ive used a few times in the past. would it be ok to use it when i do my cardio on an empty stomach in the morning? i would like a little energy boost and the slightly accelerated fat loss as well. or is it an overkill since im already on test and winny (in the sense that im putting a lot of artificial compounds in my body)?

yes the only time i would use stimulants is the AM so it doesn't bother your sleep

but as musky said dont abuse them

 

[Masonic Bodybuilder]

I think adding the stim in the morning is fine. Just remember at the end of the bottle start to taper down doses to prevent a crash effect. I see this over and over where guys run a stim based product and when they are done they feel tired and have a tough time focusing. How are you feeling so far on the test and winny?

 

[LevButlerov]

Stimulants are quite tricky bastards. They can help in the beginning, then you need to increase the dosages in order to get the same results as in the beginning. However, once you increase the dosages, there will be side effects... Anyhow, it is always like a vicious circle with stims, so it is always best to use alternatives that don't have stims in them. Luckily, there are alternatives for fat loss, which have no stims in them, and will yet be very effective for fat loss. For instance, Cardarine GW would be a much better alternative to ephedrine.

 

[fury09]

Stimulants are fine in moderation but over using them will lead to adrenal fatigue and raise cortisol levels. You can use the black mamba fat burner, just be mindful of all the other stimulants you take the rest of the day.

- - - Updated - - -



Aromasin is a better choice then arimidex because it is a suicide AI so there will be no estrogen rebound when you discontinue usage.

You need to include an AI like aromasin in your PCT. Remember that the detection time of long estered steroids like test e and test cyp is 4-6 weeks. They will still be in your system and aromatizing into estrogen 4-6 weeks after your last injection.

finally makes sense. thanks for clarifying

yes the only time i would use stimulants is the AM so it doesn't bother your sleep

but as musky said dont abuse them

yeah i wouldn't use it if i did cardio in the pm. had a couple sleepless nights when i had used it for the first time

I think adding the stim in the morning is fine. Just remember at the end of the bottle start to taper down doses to prevent a crash effect. I see this over and over where guys run a stim based product and when they are done they feel tired and have a tough time focusing. How are you feeling so far on the test and winny?

yeah i agree but ive never felt the crash effect to that extent before.
the reason im a little skeptical about black mamba is because ive heard ephedrine isnt exactly friendly to the heart, and my lipids will probably be off during cycle (Ive heard windy does that). while i had no fear using it alone, using it on cycle seemed a little scary

so far i feel just normal, no side effects like acne, bloat, etc. grateful that winny shots havent given me any excruciating pain that people generally complain about. although a friend at the gym suggested i up my test e to 500mg/week instead of 250. using winny 2 days in a row followed by 1 day break.

can see a glimpse of little changes even though ive only had time for 1 quick hiit cardio session so far.

thanks for your replies, everyone. people havent been this polite and helpful to me on other boards