Approved Log My HGH Cycle Journal

[jjjjii7]

Hi guys, everyone has asked for a proper log with images so here it is. You were correct that images are needed. The first full-body image was taken 8 weeks ago before I noticed any gyno. The other two are current and show both nipples after around 8 weeks of gyno development.

I am a young adult age 18-20

Cycle and injury history:

• I have been on 5–8 IU HGH every day, split AM and PM, for the last 5 months. I was using it for the healing of an ankle injury.

• I also used 1000 mcg/day BPC-157 (split dose).

• I used MK-677 at 10 mg nightly, but very inconsistently. I stopped MK-677 around 8 weeks ago when I ran out.

• My ankle has healed really well, I am back to full-speed sprinting and I do think HGH helped a lot.



Gynecomastia timeline:

• Gyno started developing roughly 8 weeks ago.

• The first 4 weeks: nipple sensitivity, pain, and small lumps forming.

• Now at 8 weeks: the sensitivity is minimal but the gland feels rubbery and there is visible nipple enlargement.

• It is definitely glandular gyno, not fat.


Current medication for gyno:

• I have been taking Tamoxifen 20 mg/day for the past 4 weeks.

• Yesterday I decided to stop HGH completely and increase Tamoxifen to 40 mg/day because the gyno was not reversing on 20 mg.


Diet during this time:

• I have been on a very high-sugar, high-milk diet aimed at increasing IGF-1 and bone healing:

- Breakfast: 1–2 litres of milk with 3–4 tablespoons of sugar added

- Lunch: chicken and rice with vegetables

- Snack: steak with vegetables and more milk

- Dinner: chicken with vegetables, or pasta with chicken, or a bone-broth “bone growth soup,” always including more milk

• This diet has been consistent for the last 3 months.

Bloodwork:

• I have included images of my recent blood test results below.

What I need help with:

• I don’t understand why gyno appeared so late into the cycle after months of no issues.

• I would like to know whether stopping HGH and increasing Tamoxifen was the right move.

• I would like advice on how to fully reverse the gyno since I acted early.

I am very stressed out about the gyno and would love some help please

Also look at my past posts if you would like a but more context (or just ask me directly happy to answer and questions) or if I forgot or got anything wrong, thanks

 

[Allupfromhere]

Hi guys, everyone has asked for a proper log with images so here it is. You were correct that images are needed. The first full-body image was taken 8 weeks ago before I noticed any gyno. The other two are current and show both nipples after around 8 weeks of gyno development.

I am a young adult age 18-20

Cycle and injury history:

• I have been on 5–8 IU HGH every day, split AM and PM, for the last 5 months. I was using it for the healing of an ankle injury.

• I also used 1000 mcg/day BPC-157 (split dose).

• I used MK-677 at 10 mg nightly, but very inconsistently. I stopped MK-677 around 8 weeks ago when I ran out.

• My ankle has healed really well, I am back to full-speed sprinting and I do think HGH helped a lot.



Gynecomastia timeline:

• Gyno started developing roughly 8 weeks ago.

• The first 4 weeks: nipple sensitivity, pain, and small lumps forming.

• Now at 8 weeks: the sensitivity is minimal but the gland feels rubbery and there is visible nipple enlargement.

• It is definitely glandular gyno, not fat.


Current medication for gyno:

• I have been taking Tamoxifen 20 mg/day for the past 4 weeks.

• Yesterday I decided to stop HGH completely and increase Tamoxifen to 40 mg/day because the gyno was not reversing on 20 mg.


Diet during this time:

• I have been on a very high-sugar, high-milk diet aimed at increasing IGF-1 and bone healing:

- Breakfast: 1–2 litres of milk with 3–4 tablespoons of sugar added

- Lunch: chicken and rice with vegetables

- Snack: steak with vegetables and more milk

- Dinner: chicken with vegetables, or pasta with chicken, or a bone-broth “bone growth soup,” always including more milk

• This diet has been consistent for the last 3 months.

Bloodwork:

• I have included images of my recent blood test results below.

What I need help with:

• I don’t understand why gyno appeared so late into the cycle after months of no issues.

• I would like to know whether stopping HGH and increasing Tamoxifen was the right move.

• I would like advice on how to fully reverse the gyno since I acted early.

I am very stressed out about the gyno and would love some help please

Also look at my past posts if you would like a but more context (or just ask me directly happy to answer and questions) or if I forgot or got anything wrong, thanks

Bro i think you have overreacted here, i was expecting to see some chimpanzee titties.

You are in no such position like you think you are. Honestly it just looks like you got a decent chest.. however you prolactin is sky high and you said you can feel lumps behind your nipple?
If so start some tamoxifen asap.

@LevButlerov @HarleyGuy @s.gentz @BeMe @Pigsy

 

[HarleyGuy]

Hi guys, everyone has asked for a proper log with images so here it is. You were correct that images are needed. The first full-body image was taken 8 weeks ago before I noticed any gyno. The other two are current and show both nipples after around 8 weeks of gyno development.

I am a young adult age 18-20

Cycle and injury history:

• I have been on 5–8 IU HGH every day, split AM and PM, for the last 5 months. I was using it for the healing of an ankle injury.

• I also used 1000 mcg/day BPC-157 (split dose).

• I used MK-677 at 10 mg nightly, but very inconsistently. I stopped MK-677 around 8 weeks ago when I ran out.

• My ankle has healed really well, I am back to full-speed sprinting and I do think HGH helped a lot.



Gynecomastia timeline:

• Gyno started developing roughly 8 weeks ago.

• The first 4 weeks: nipple sensitivity, pain, and small lumps forming.

• Now at 8 weeks: the sensitivity is minimal but the gland feels rubbery and there is visible nipple enlargement.

• It is definitely glandular gyno, not fat.


Current medication for gyno:

• I have been taking Tamoxifen 20 mg/day for the past 4 weeks.

• Yesterday I decided to stop HGH completely and increase Tamoxifen to 40 mg/day because the gyno was not reversing on 20 mg.


Diet during this time:

• I have been on a very high-sugar, high-milk diet aimed at increasing IGF-1 and bone healing:

- Breakfast: 1–2 litres of milk with 3–4 tablespoons of sugar added

- Lunch: chicken and rice with vegetables

- Snack: steak with vegetables and more milk

- Dinner: chicken with vegetables, or pasta with chicken, or a bone-broth “bone growth soup,” always including more milk

• This diet has been consistent for the last 3 months.

Bloodwork:

• I have included images of my recent blood test results below.

What I need help with:

• I don’t understand why gyno appeared so late into the cycle after months of no issues.

• I would like to know whether stopping HGH and increasing Tamoxifen was the right move.

• I would like advice on how to fully reverse the gyno since I acted early.

I am very stressed out about the gyno and would love some help please

Also look at my past posts if you would like a but more context (or just ask me directly happy to answer and questions) or if I forgot or got anything wrong, thanks

There we go! It will be in the mod que now for approval for a log it won't be long. You'll have a good avatar pic and your gyno isn't as bad as your freaking out about it can be dealt with. That's nothing compared to mine or what it could be. Let's take it one step at a time.

I don’t understand why gyno appeared so late into the cycle after months of no issues

You didn't run a "cycle" at all you ran HGH with BPC and the MK677 is a growth hormone secretagogue (GHS). It mimics ghrelin and helps produce endogenous HGH. None of these have an even small potential to increase prolactin.

I am very stressed out about the gyno and would love some help please

We got you don't worry we're gonna figure this out

Also look at my past posts if you would like a but more context

They will be brought over here and we remember, don't worry.

 

[jjjjii7]

Bro i think you have overreacted here, i was expecting to see some chimpanzee titties.

You are in no such position like you think you are. Honestly it just looks like you got a decent chest.. however you prolactin is sky high and you said you can feel lumps behind your nipple?
If so start some tamoxifen asap.

@LevButlerov @HarleyGuy @s.gentz @BeMe @Pigsy

is the prolactin actually high? as it days it’s witching range on the blood test? mayb the ranges were wrong as it is private lab testing

 

[HarleyGuy]

I have been on a very high-sugar

Stop

aimed at increasing IGF-1 and bone healing

It will but you'll have the worst insulin sensitivity and fat loss will be difficult

1–2 litres of milk with 3–4 tablespoons of sugar added

Stop doing this. High sugar can increase IGF-1 very briefly by spiking the shit out of your insulin which will increase IGF-1. This is a horrible way to get your IGF-1 raised when you're already taking GH which will do that enough already at your age (mind you I don't think you need GH at all right now).

 

[jjjjii7]

There we go! It will be in the mod que now for approval for a log it won't be long. You'll have a good avatar pic and your gyno isn't as bad as your freaking out about it can be dealt with. That's nothing compared to mine or what it could be. Let's take it one step at a time.


You didn't run a "cycle" at all you ran HGH with BPC and the MK677 is a growth hormone secretagogue (GHS). It mimics ghrelin and helps produce endogenous HGH. None of these have an even small potential to increase prolactin.

We got you don't worry we're gonna figure this out

They will be brought over here and we remember, don't worry.

Thanks bro it is 100% gyno tho might not be insanely big but in person it’s noticeable and i have all the symptoms of sensitivity initial that went away now and it’s rubbery and no longer as painful.

 

[HarleyGuy]

Thanks bro it is 100% gyno tho might not be insanely big but in person it’s noticeable and i have all the symptoms of sensitivity initial that went away now and it’s rubbery and no longer as painful.

I believe you have gyno don't worry LOL. I just think you're trying to blame something that didn't cause it. You need to post pics of the HGH you used and at this point everything else as well.

 

[jjjjii7]

Stop

It will but you'll have the worst insulin sensitivity and fat loss will be difficult

Stop doing this. High sugar can increase IGF-1 very briefly by spiking the shit out of your insulin which will increase IGF-1. This is a horrible way to get your IGF-1 raised when you're already taking GH which will do that enough already at your age (mind you I don't think you need GH at all right now).

I have stopped bro thanks
I just wanna get rid of gyno now

 

[jjjjii7]

I believe you have gyno don't worry LOL. I just think you're trying to blame something that didn't cause it. You need to post pics of the HGH you used and at this point everything else as well.

shogun hgh

 

[jjjjii7]

I believe you have gyno don't worry LOL. I just think you're trying to blame something that didn't cause it. You need to post pics of the HGH you used and at this point everything else as well.

It is also from ugl oz a trusted supplier, and i got both igf and gh tested showing increases proving it to be hgh not hcg

 

[Allupfromhere]

The hgh is good to go bro @UGL OZ isnt making a mistake like that.
Start nolva 40mg a day for a week and then drop it back to 20mg a day.
I had a gyna flare up this year and now have next to nothing at all bro.

 

[jjjjii7]

The hgh is good to go bro @UGL OZ isnt making a mistake like that.
Start nolva 40mg a day for a week and then drop it back to 20mg a day.
I had a gyna flare up this year and now have next to nothing at all bro.

hey im not sure what nova is and have never heard of it all im aware of is tamoxifen, should i be stopping tamoxifen and going to “nova”?

 

[jjjjii7]

The hgh is good to go bro @UGL OZ isnt making a mistake like that.
Start nolva 40mg a day for a week and then drop it back to 20mg a day.
I had a gyna flare up this year and now have next to nothing at all bro.

Hahaha wait it’s the same thing i just checked
Been on tamoxifen for 4-5 weeks now on 20mg while on hgh now ima stop hgh and go on 40mg of tamoxifen

 

[HarleyGuy]

hey im not sure what nova is and have never heard of it all im aware of is tamoxifen, should i be stopping tamoxifen and going to “nova”?

You have a long way to go bro and you're in the right place to learn because tamoxifen=nolva. And @Allupfromhere is right on the money. You'll be moody a bit but start running that ASAP. If gyno is caught early you have the best chance at mitigating it.

 

[HarleyGuy]

Hahaha wait it’s the same thing i just checked
Been on tamoxifen for 4-5 weeks now on 20mg while on hgh now ima stop hgh and go on 40mg of tamoxifen

Correct. And run @Allupfromhere protocol

I have to check out for the night but I'll keep an eye on your log and we'll get this squared away
@Allupfromhere @BeMe @toddthelineman @LevButlerov

And thank you for posting that pic because @UGL OZ is 100% good to go and it wasn't HCG.

 

[jjjjii7]

You have a long way to go bro and you're in the right place to learn because tamoxifen=nolva. And @Allupfromhere is right on the money. You'll be moody a bit but start running that ASAP. If gyno is caught early you have the best chance at mitigating it.

does the brand matter? im currently on this one from ugl oz

 

[jjjjii7]

Correct. And run @Allupfromhere protocol

I have to check out for the night but I'll keep an eye on your log and we'll get this squared away
@Allupfromhere @BeMe @toddthelineman @LevButlerov

And thank you for posting that pic because @UGL OZ is 100% good to go and it wasn't HCG.

all good thanks for the help

 

[jjjjii7]

The hgh is good to go bro @UGL OZ isnt making a mistake like that.
Start nolva 40mg a day for a week and then drop it back to 20mg a day.
I had a gyna flare up this year and now have next to nothing at all bro.

ok only 1 week at 40mg then how long do i do the 20mg a day for? also when should i expect the gyno to to away or see changes?

 

[ODINLABS]

Hi guys, everyone has asked for a proper log with images so here it is. You were correct that images are needed. The first full-body image was taken 8 weeks ago before I noticed any gyno. The other two are current and show both nipples after around 8 weeks of gyno development.

I am a young adult age 18-20

Cycle and injury history:

• I have been on 5–8 IU HGH every day, split AM and PM, for the last 5 months. I was using it for the healing of an ankle injury.

• I also used 1000 mcg/day BPC-157 (split dose).

• I used MK-677 at 10 mg nightly, but very inconsistently. I stopped MK-677 around 8 weeks ago when I ran out.

• My ankle has healed really well, I am back to full-speed sprinting and I do think HGH helped a lot.



Gynecomastia timeline:

• Gyno started developing roughly 8 weeks ago.

• The first 4 weeks: nipple sensitivity, pain, and small lumps forming.

• Now at 8 weeks: the sensitivity is minimal but the gland feels rubbery and there is visible nipple enlargement.

• It is definitely glandular gyno, not fat.


Current medication for gyno:

• I have been taking Tamoxifen 20 mg/day for the past 4 weeks.

• Yesterday I decided to stop HGH completely and increase Tamoxifen to 40 mg/day because the gyno was not reversing on 20 mg.


Diet during this time:

• I have been on a very high-sugar, high-milk diet aimed at increasing IGF-1 and bone healing:

- Breakfast: 1–2 litres of milk with 3–4 tablespoons of sugar added

- Lunch: chicken and rice with vegetables

- Snack: steak with vegetables and more milk

- Dinner: chicken with vegetables, or pasta with chicken, or a bone-broth “bone growth soup,” always including more milk

• This diet has been consistent for the last 3 months.

Bloodwork:

• I have included images of my recent blood test results below.

What I need help with:

• I don’t understand why gyno appeared so late into the cycle after months of no issues.

• I would like to know whether stopping HGH and increasing Tamoxifen was the right move.

• I would like advice on how to fully reverse the gyno since I acted early.

I am very stressed out about the gyno and would love some help please

Also look at my past posts if you would like a but more context (or just ask me directly happy to answer and questions) or if I forgot or got anything wrong, thanks

Use arimidex!!!!!!

 

[jjjjii7]

Use arimidex!!!!!!

I have some on me, do you think i should he using it based on my current e2 levels? thanks

 

[HarleyGuy]

does the brand matter? im currently on this one from ugl oz

If it's from @UGL OZ brand doesn't matter you're good to go bro.

ok only 1 week at 40mg then how long do i do the 20mg a day for? also when should i expect the gyno to to away or see changes?

This is important, take the 40mg in two 20mg doses for a week, then we'll run it for 4 weeks and reassess. Don't expect miracles let's take this one week at a time.

Use arimidex!!!!!!

Arimidex is an AI whereas Nolva is SERM. There's better research on Nolva for gyno even more research than Raloxifene. Nolva is the go to when it's just gyno we're dealing with imo

 

[HarleyGuy]

I have some on me, do you think i should he using it based on my current e2 levels? thanks

Stick to @Allupfromhere protocol for now and we'll go week by week. In four weeks we'll see what's up, first we have to see how you feel on 40mg/day for the first week and we might even adjust week 2 from there. Just breathe bro.

 

[ODINLABS]

If it's from @UGL OZ brand doesn't matter you're good to go bro.

This is important, take the 40mg in two 20mg doses for a week, then we'll run it for 4 weeks and reassess. Don't expect miracles let's take this one week at a time.


Arimidex is an AI whereas Nolva is SERM. There's better research on Nolva for gyno even more research than Raloxifene. Nolva is the go to when it's just gyno we're dealing with imo

Brother I gave the best possible advice .
Take the advice
He still needs to eliminate circulating estrogen
1 mg every second day.adex

 

[HarleyGuy]

Brother I gave the best possible advice .
Take the advice
He still needs to eliminate circulating estrogen
1 mg every second day.adex

If it's currently high then I agree but his bloodwork didn't show high e2 at the moment. I think the damage is done at this point but you're correct in wanting low circulating e2 as much as possible. I can't make a call like that I'd bump this up to @LevButlerov at this point.

 

[jjjjii7]

If it's from @UGL OZ brand doesn't matter you're good to go bro.

This is important, take the 40mg in two 20mg doses for a week, then we'll run it for 4 weeks and reassess. Don't expect miracles let's take this one week at a time.


Arimidex is an AI whereas Nolva is SERM. There's better research on Nolva for gyno even more research than Raloxifene. Nolva is the go to when it's just gyno we're dealing with imo

split the dose morning and night? 20mg morning 20mg night? thanks

 

[LevButlerov]

Hi guys, everyone has asked for a proper log with images so here it is. You were correct that images are needed. The first full-body image was taken 8 weeks ago before I noticed any gyno. The other two are current and show both nipples after around 8 weeks of gyno development.

I am a young adult age 18-20

Cycle and injury history:

• I have been on 5–8 IU HGH every day, split AM and PM, for the last 5 months. I was using it for the healing of an ankle injury.

• I also used 1000 mcg/day BPC-157 (split dose).

• I used MK-677 at 10 mg nightly, but very inconsistently. I stopped MK-677 around 8 weeks ago when I ran out.

• My ankle has healed really well, I am back to full-speed sprinting and I do think HGH helped a lot.



Gynecomastia timeline:

• Gyno started developing roughly 8 weeks ago.

• The first 4 weeks: nipple sensitivity, pain, and small lumps forming.

• Now at 8 weeks: the sensitivity is minimal but the gland feels rubbery and there is visible nipple enlargement.

• It is definitely glandular gyno, not fat.


Current medication for gyno:

• I have been taking Tamoxifen 20 mg/day for the past 4 weeks.

• Yesterday I decided to stop HGH completely and increase Tamoxifen to 40 mg/day because the gyno was not reversing on 20 mg.


Diet during this time:

• I have been on a very high-sugar, high-milk diet aimed at increasing IGF-1 and bone healing:

- Breakfast: 1–2 litres of milk with 3–4 tablespoons of sugar added

- Lunch: chicken and rice with vegetables

- Snack: steak with vegetables and more milk

- Dinner: chicken with vegetables, or pasta with chicken, or a bone-broth “bone growth soup,” always including more milk

• This diet has been consistent for the last 3 months.

Bloodwork:

• I have included images of my recent blood test results below.

What I need help with:

• I don’t understand why gyno appeared so late into the cycle after months of no issues.

• I would like to know whether stopping HGH and increasing Tamoxifen was the right move.

• I would like advice on how to fully reverse the gyno since I acted early.

I am very stressed out about the gyno and would love some help please

Also look at my past posts if you would like a but more context (or just ask me directly happy to answer and questions) or if I forgot or got anything wrong, thanks

welcome to the EVO family fully now @jjjjii7 we asked you many times to log so I'm happy you did it. Thank you for sharing your pic! I saw a lot of back and forth here, but only going to address your situation for now.

I had to take some time to read all your back posts too.
For new readers reference
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/hgh-nipple-sensitivity.106642
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/hgh-gyno-please-help.107472

Your estradiol around 142 pmol/L is high normal for males and by itself would not mean gynecomastia, but 5-8 IU ed GH raises hepatic IGF1 and locally amplifies estrogen receptor signaling in breast tissue through JAK2 STAT5 and PI3K AKT MAPK pathways so normal E2 can feel “stronger” at the gland. I've heard of this before but rarely btw as I don't train a lot of young guys.

There are studies on this
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7699552

Prepubertal gynecomastia during growth hormone therapy

report 22 cases of prepubertal gynecomastia diagnosed during growth hormone (GH) treatment. … In most of the patients, gynecomastia appeared between 0.5 and 7 months after GH was started. This condition appears to be self-limited and benign.

and a recent MK-677 run that also boosts GH IGF1, and you have a timing match for nipple tenderness appearing at 6-10 weeks even without an aromatization spike. It's super rare but I can see how it could happen.

One of the big issues here is your diet and age imo! your age where pubertal tissue is highly responsive with very high milk and sugar in your diet elevate IGF1 and insulin. You diet needs to change closer to carnivore with carbs timed right.

question for you
Your current plan is interesting, can you explain clearly why you're running so much HGH and hgh releasers? I'd like the logic behind it.

for now
run tamoxifen 40 mg ed for 6 weeks since early gland responds best to SERMs while aromatase inhibitors will just crash your e2, no need.



@BeMe @HarleyGuy @vanlife_gymbum @toddthelineman @Allupfromhere @Pigsy @s.gentz @Dreamer @Freki


@waggat @Yuri @rizzlekdizzle @Grumpy @Madmax46

 

[ODINLABS]

welcome to the EVO family fully now @jjjjii7 we asked you many times to log so I'm happy you did it. Thank you for sharing your pic! I saw a lot of back and forth here, but only going to address your situation for now.

I had to take some time to read all your back posts too.
For new readers reference
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/hgh-nipple-sensitivity.106642
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/hgh-gyno-please-help.107472

Your estradiol around 142 pmol/L is high normal for males and by itself would not mean gynecomastia, but 5-8 IU ed GH raises hepatic IGF1 and locally amplifies estrogen receptor signaling in breast tissue through JAK2 STAT5 and PI3K AKT MAPK pathways so normal E2 can feel “stronger” at the gland. I've heard of this before but rarely btw as I don't train a lot of young guys.

There are studies on this
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7699552



and a recent MK-677 run that also boosts GH IGF1, and you have a timing match for nipple tenderness appearing at 6-10 weeks even without an aromatization spike. It's super rare but I can see how it could happen.

One of the big issues here is your diet and age imo! your age where pubertal tissue is highly responsive with very high milk and sugar in your diet elevate IGF1 and insulin. You diet needs to change closer to carnivore with carbs timed right.

question for you
Your current plan is interesting, can you explain clearly why you're running so much HGH and hgh releasers? I'd like the logic behind it.

for now
run tamoxifen 40 mg ed for 6 weeks since early gland responds best to SERMs while aromatase inhibitors will just crash your e2, no need.



@BeMe @HarleyGuy @vanlife_gymbum @toddthelineman @Allupfromhere @Pigsy @s.gentz @Dreamer @Freki


@waggat @Yuri @rizzlekdizzle @Grumpy @Madmax46

Progesterone results.....?
When was the blood test taken?

 

[ODINLABS]

welcome to the EVO family fully now @jjjjii7 we asked you many times to log so I'm happy you did it. Thank you for sharing your pic! I saw a lot of back and forth here, but only going to address your situation for now.

I had to take some time to read all your back posts too.
For new readers reference
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/hgh-nipple-sensitivity.106642
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/hgh-gyno-please-help.107472

Your estradiol around 142 pmol/L is high normal for males and by itself would not mean gynecomastia, but 5-8 IU ed GH raises hepatic IGF1 and locally amplifies estrogen receptor signaling in breast tissue through JAK2 STAT5 and PI3K AKT MAPK pathways so normal E2 can feel “stronger” at the gland. I've heard of this before but rarely btw as I don't train a lot of young guys.

There are studies on this
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7699552



and a recent MK-677 run that also boosts GH IGF1, and you have a timing match for nipple tenderness appearing at 6-10 weeks even without an aromatization spike. It's super rare but I can see how it could happen.

One of the big issues here is your diet and age imo! your age where pubertal tissue is highly responsive with very high milk and sugar in your diet elevate IGF1 and insulin. You diet needs to change closer to carnivore with carbs timed right.

question for you
Your current plan is interesting, can you explain clearly why you're running so much HGH and hgh releasers? I'd like the logic behind it.

for now
run tamoxifen 40 mg ed for 6 weeks since early gland responds best to SERMs while aromatase inhibitors will just crash your e2, no need.



@BeMe @HarleyGuy @vanlife_gymbum @toddthelineman @Allupfromhere @Pigsy @s.gentz @Dreamer @Freki


@waggat @Yuri @rizzlekdizzle @Grumpy @Madmax46

Your estradiol around 142 pmol/L is high normal for males and by itself would not mean gynecomastia, but 5-8 IU ed GH raises hepatic IGF1 and locally amplifies estrogen receptor signaling in breast tissue through JAK2 STAT5 and PI3K AKT MAPK pathways so normal E2 can feel “stronger” at the gland. I've heard of this before but rarely btw as I don't train a lot of young guys.

Confused. With your statement here brother please elaborate on JAK2 STAT5 And how this pathway influences gynocomastia I thought it was more for cancers if inhibited

FOR PEOPLES REFERENCE.
Janus kinases (JAKs), signal transducer and activator of transcription proteins (STATs), and receptors (which bind the chemical signals).
Disrupted JAK-STAT signalling may lead to a variety of diseases, such as skin conditions, cancers, and disorders affecting the immune system

 

[jjjjii7]

welcome to the EVO family fully now @jjjjii7 we asked you many times to log so I'm happy you did it. Thank you for sharing your pic! I saw a lot of back and forth here, but only going to address your situation for now.

I had to take some time to read all your back posts too.
For new readers reference
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/hgh-nipple-sensitivity.106642
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/hgh-gyno-please-help.107472

Your estradiol around 142 pmol/L is high normal for males and by itself would not mean gynecomastia, but 5-8 IU ed GH raises hepatic IGF1 and locally amplifies estrogen receptor signaling in breast tissue through JAK2 STAT5 and PI3K AKT MAPK pathways so normal E2 can feel “stronger” at the gland. I've heard of this before but rarely btw as I don't train a lot of young guys.

There are studies on this
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7699552



and a recent MK-677 run that also boosts GH IGF1, and you have a timing match for nipple tenderness appearing at 6-10 weeks even without an aromatization spike. It's super rare but I can see how it could happen.

One of the big issues here is your diet and age imo! your age where pubertal tissue is highly responsive with very high milk and sugar in your diet elevate IGF1 and insulin. You diet needs to change closer to carnivore with carbs timed right.

question for you
Your current plan is interesting, can you explain clearly why you're running so much HGH and hgh releasers? I'd like the logic behind it.

for now
run tamoxifen 40 mg ed for 6 weeks since early gland responds best to SERMs while aromatase inhibitors will just crash your e2, no need.



@BeMe @HarleyGuy @vanlife_gymbum @toddthelineman @Allupfromhere @Pigsy @s.gentz @Dreamer @Freki


@waggat @Yuri @rizzlekdizzle @Grumpy @Madmax46

thank you for the responses I see you are extremely smart and experienced.

I had a stress fracture of the foot and an osteochondral lesion in the talar diagnosed earlier this year 10 months ago (i thought it was 8monthd but today sports doctor said it was actually 10 months since) .
Healing was extremely slow to almost nothing with conventional rest and physio. Once I introduced daily HGH, BPC-157, and a little bit of MK-677, the healing finally started progressing. Over the last couple of weeks I’ve been able to return to full-speed sprinting again, which was my main goal since I play
The logic was:

I want to Increase IGF-1 for bone and cartilage healing
HGH goes to liver which does IGF-1 production which stimulates osteoblasts and chondrocytes

High milk + sugar to support GH conversion to IGF-1
Milk is one of the strongest natural IGF-1 boosters
Sugar spikes insulin, this drives IGF-1 and glycogen replenishment

 

[ODINLABS]

thank you for the responses I see you are extremely smart and experienced.

I had a stress fracture of the foot and an osteochondral lesion in the talar diagnosed earlier this year 10 months ago (i thought it was 8monthd but today sports doctor said it was actually 10 months since) .
Healing was extremely slow to almost nothing with conventional rest and physio. Once I introduced daily HGH, BPC-157, and a little bit of MK-677, the healing finally started progressing. Over the last couple of months I’ve been able to return to full-speed sprinting again, which was my main goal since I play
The logic was:

I want to Increase IGF-1 for bone and cartilage healing
HGH goes to liver which does IGF-1 production which stimulates osteoblasts and chondrocytes

High milk + sugar to support GH conversion to IGF-1
Milk is one of the strongest natural IGF-1 boosters
Sugar spikes insulin, this drives IGF-1 and glycogen replenishment

Brother look into sugar and gynecomastia.... Just saying

 

[jjjjii7]

Brother look into sugar and gynecomastia.... Just saying

ohhhh so mayb it was the sugar diet as I didn’t have gyno when i wasn’t having large amount of sugar I been on sugar diet for 3 month only but in hgh for 5 month

 

[ODINLABS]

ohhhh so mayb it was the sugar diet as I didn’t have gyno when i wasn’t having large amount of sugar I been on sugar diet for 3 month only but in hgh for 5 month

Guarantee you its sugar influenced brother
HGH wouldn't have helped either on it's own

 

[jjjjii7]

welcome to the EVO family fully now @jjjjii7 we asked you many times to log so I'm happy you did it. Thank you for sharing your pic! I saw a lot of back and forth here, but only going to address your situation for now.

I had to take some time to read all your back posts too.
For new readers reference
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/hgh-nipple-sensitivity.106642
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/hgh-gyno-please-help.107472

Your estradiol around 142 pmol/L is high normal for males and by itself would not mean gynecomastia, but 5-8 IU ed GH raises hepatic IGF1 and locally amplifies estrogen receptor signaling in breast tissue through JAK2 STAT5 and PI3K AKT MAPK pathways so normal E2 can feel “stronger” at the gland. I've heard of this before but rarely btw as I don't train a lot of young guys.

There are studies on this
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7699552



and a recent MK-677 run that also boosts GH IGF1, and you have a timing match for nipple tenderness appearing at 6-10 weeks even without an aromatization spike. It's super rare but I can see how it could happen.

One of the big issues here is your diet and age imo! your age where pubertal tissue is highly responsive with very high milk and sugar in your diet elevate IGF1 and insulin. You diet needs to change closer to carnivore with carbs timed right.

question for you
Your current plan is interesting, can you explain clearly why you're running so much HGH and hgh releasers? I'd like the logic behind it.

for now
run tamoxifen 40 mg ed for 6 weeks since early gland responds best to SERMs while aromatase inhibitors will just crash your e2, no need.



@BeMe @HarleyGuy @vanlife_gymbum @toddthelineman @Allupfromhere @Pigsy @s.gentz @Dreamer @Freki


@waggat @Yuri @rizzlekdizzle @Grumpy @Madmax46

I am back to sprinting but not 100% healed yet still slight pain, I honestly wanted to keep using hgh for another 1month but I quit yesterday as I don’t want my gyno to develop more. Was stopping hgh a good choice?

 

[jjjjii7]

Guarantee you its sugar influenced brother
HGH wouldn't have helped either on it's own

ok thanks bro i’ve fixed my diet up back to low sugar this is how i used to eat before i was on hgh mainly just meat, eggs and some carbs before I workout

 

[LevButlerov]

Progesterone results.....?
When was the blood test taken?

Your estradiol around 142 pmol/L is high normal for males and by itself would not mean gynecomastia, but 5-8 IU ed GH raises hepatic IGF1 and locally amplifies estrogen receptor signaling in breast tissue through JAK2 STAT5 and PI3K AKT MAPK pathways so normal E2 can feel “stronger” at the gland. I've heard of this before but rarely btw as I don't train a lot of young guys.

Confused. With your statement here brother please elaborate on JAK2 STAT5 And how this pathway influences gynocomastia I thought it was more for cancers if inhibited

FOR PEOPLES REFERENCE.
Janus kinases (JAKs), signal transducer and activator of transcription proteins (STATs), and receptors (which bind the chemical signals).
Disrupted JAK-STAT signalling may lead to a variety of diseases, such as skin conditions, cancers, and disorders affecting the immune system

read 1st post
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/#post-1877565
@ODINLABS

 

[LevButlerov]

thank you for the responses I see you are extremely smart and experienced.

I had a stress fracture of the foot and an osteochondral lesion in the talar diagnosed earlier this year 10 months ago (i thought it was 8monthd but today sports doctor said it was actually 10 months since) .
Healing was extremely slow to almost nothing with conventional rest and physio. Once I introduced daily HGH, BPC-157, and a little bit of MK-677, the healing finally started progressing. Over the last couple of weeks I’ve been able to return to full-speed sprinting again, which was my main goal since I play
The logic was:

I want to Increase IGF-1 for bone and cartilage healing
HGH goes to liver which does IGF-1 production which stimulates osteoblasts and chondrocytes

High milk + sugar to support GH conversion to IGF-1
Milk is one of the strongest natural IGF-1 boosters
Sugar spikes insulin, this drives IGF-1 and glycogen replenishment

Good logic on targeting IGF1 for bone and cartilage repair, that would be the right path if you were older, but not at your age. @jjjjii7

You only need BPC157 and TB500 for that now with maybe light MK677, no reason to run high HGH at your age and especially not with that much sugar. The peptides alone keep tissue regeneration high without the endocrine stress GH and insulin spikes cause.

You should cycle off the HGH, and stay on BPC/TB combo.
At the same time we need to modify your diet, cut the sugars and milk and add meat protein, do you have the budget?

 

[LevButlerov]

Brother I gave the best possible advice .
Take the advice
He still needs to eliminate circulating estrogen
1 mg every second day.adex

I dont advise this @jjjjii7 dont take an Ai

 

[jjjjii7]

Good logic on targeting IGF1 for bone and cartilage repair, that would be the right path if you were older, but not at your age. @jjjjii7

You only need BPC157 and TB500 for that now with maybe light MK677, no reason to run high HGH at your age and especially not with that much sugar. The peptides alone keep tissue regeneration high without the endocrine stress GH and insulin spikes cause.

You should cycle off the HGH, and stay on BPC/TB combo.
At the same time we need to modify your diet, cut the sugars and milk and add meat protein, do you have the budget?

nah no budget bro if it helps me I pay for it, ur a legend for all the help thank you
Is cycling off hgh needed? I got 200iu iu left but i’ve just stopped it completely, is cycling off better?

 

[LevButlerov]

nah no budget bro if it helps me I pay for it, ur a legend for all the help thank you
Is cycling off hgh needed? I got 200iu iu left but i’ve just stopped it completely, is cycling off better?

If no budget, start by getting bpc157 and tb500 use more regular with 10mgs mk677 pre bed, drop the HGH injections
you can get GHK as well @jjjjii7
and did you read my diet comment? lets get your diet cleaned up

 

[jjjjii7]

If no budget, start by getting bpc157 and tb500 use more regular with 10mgs mk677 pre bed, drop the HGH injections
you can get GHK as well @jjjjii7
and did you read my diet comment? lets get your diet cleaned up

Hey, I read the diet u said “cut milk and sugar and add more meat and protein”
I’ve cut the sugar but I still think milk is important as my injury is bone related and everyone says milk having calcium helps bones?

I have bpc and tb so will do that, as for mk somebody said mk it is worse for gyno as it raises prolactin is this true?

I noticed in training today my injury was slightly sore than usual, im very tempted to start low dose hgh again, would I be stupid to do so?
Thanks

 

[LevButlerov]

Hey, I read the diet u said “cut milk and sugar and add more meat and protein”
I’ve cut the sugar but I still think milk is important as my injury is bone related and everyone says milk having calcium helps bones?

I have bpc and tb so will do that, as for mk somebody said mk it is worse for gyno as it raises prolactin is this true?

I noticed in training today my injury was slightly sore than usual, im very tempted to start low dose hgh again, would I be stupid to do so?
Thanks

Milk isn’t needed for bone repair, calcium supplements work better since they don’t bring insulin spikes or excess lactose. Focus on red meat, fish, and whole eggs for collagen, include ed bone broth. @jjjjii7

MK677 can raise prolactin and worsen gyno risk because of GH and IGF1 amplification, so skip it while tissue is sensitive.
Stick with BPC and TB for a few weeks and only reintroduce low mk677 later once we see something change.

 

[HarleyGuy]

run tamoxifen 40 mg ed for 6 weeks since early gland responds best to SERMs while aromatase inhibitors will just crash your e2, no need.

There you have it @jjjjii7 and I believe @LevButlerov would agree with me to do 20mg b.i.d. (twice a day) instead of 40mg bolus.

somebody said mk it is worse for gyno as it raises prolactin is this true?

It can yes and you don't really need it. Actually a high sugar diet is worse for gyno than anything you're taking by far. "Somebody" should have told you that.

 

[LevButlerov]

There you have it @jjjjii7 and I believe @LevButlerov would agree with me to do 20mg b.i.d. (twice a day) instead of 40mg bolus.

It can yes and you don't really need it. Actually a high sugar diet is worse for gyno than anything you're taking by far. "Somebody" should have told you that.

agreed

 

[jjjjii7]

Hi all, I’m planning an 8–12 week cycle focused on faster recovery between sprint trainings and improving the intrinsic/extrinsic foot musculature for better shock absorption during sprinting.

My current plan

Testosterone Propionate: 200 mg/week
Split Monday/Wednesday/Friday (Propionate requires at least 3 injections per week due to its short half-life)

HCG: 250 IU Monday, Wednesday, Friday
(To maintain intratesticular testosterone and preserve fertility)

(I have been told ai is not needed at this dose of test)

Before I finalise this, I’d appreciate advice to ensure I’m not making any big mistakes or overlooking anything important.
Thanks

 

[LevButlerov]

Hi all, I’m planning an 8–12 week cycle focused on faster recovery between sprint trainings and improving the intrinsic/extrinsic foot musculature for better shock absorption during sprinting.

My current plan

Testosterone Propionate: 200 mg/week
Split Monday/Wednesday/Friday (Propionate requires at least 3 injections per week due to its short half-life)

HCG: 250 IU Monday, Wednesday, Friday
(To maintain intratesticular testosterone and preserve fertility)

(I have been told ai is not needed at this dose of test)

Before I finalise this, I’d appreciate advice to ensure I’m not making any big mistakes or overlooking anything important.
Thanks

why test prop? @jjjjii7 why not go with test cyp/enan?
with 200mgs test you might need an ai, without bloods hard to say.


@BeMe @HarleyGuy @vanlife_gymbum @s.gentz
@Allupfromhere @Pigsy @Dreamer @Freki @R.AP
@waggat @Yuri @rizzlekdizzle @Grumpy

@toddthelineman @Madmax46

 

[jjjjii7]

why test prop? @jjjjii7 why not go with test cyp/enan?
with 200mgs test you might need an ai, without bloods hard to say.


@BeMe @HarleyGuy @vanlife_gymbum @s.gentz
@Allupfromhere @Pigsy @Dreamer @Freki @R.AP
@waggat @Yuri @rizzlekdizzle @Grumpy

@toddthelineman @Madmax46

i’ll get bloods done, which bloods would u recommend other then test and e2? and i chose test p as I watched a vid where a person said having to inject test p daily keeps hormones more stable therefore not as prone to acne, aromatisation etc.

 

[s.gentz]

Testosterone Propionate: 200 mg/week
Split Monday/Wednesday/Friday (Propionate requires at least 3 injections per week due to its short half-life)

Test prop needs to be every day or every other day max. Spaced any further out you will get big swings in your hormones and feel like shit. You should be using testE or testC.

HCG: 250 IU Monday, Wednesday, Friday
(To maintain intratesticular testosterone and preserve fertility)

HCG does not keep you from being shut down when using exogenous test. It only keeps seamen volume higher when on it. If your just doing a 12 week cycle I would not even bother with it. You will not atrophy in that time and you will increased estrogen production. If your on TRT that is a different story.

Hi all, I’m planning an 8–12 week cycle focused on faster recovery between sprint trainings and improving the intrinsic/extrinsic foot musculature for better shock absorption during sprinting.

If this is the reason your doing a cycle I would reconsider. Test is gonna put water weight on which is not great for sprinting.
Proper running biomechanics are the only thing that will help with intrinsic/extrinsic foot musculature. Not drugs.



You are also much too young to be using hormones. You body/brain are not done developing yet.

@LevButlerov -He is 18-20yo per his original post.

 

[HarleyGuy]

Hi all, I’m planning an 8–12 week cycle focused on faster recovery between sprint trainings and improving the intrinsic/extrinsic foot musculature for better shock absorption during sprinting.

My current plan

Testosterone Propionate: 200 mg/week
Split Monday/Wednesday/Friday (Propionate requires at least 3 injections per week due to its short half-life)

HCG: 250 IU Monday, Wednesday, Friday
(To maintain intratesticular testosterone and preserve fertility)

(I have been told ai is not needed at this dose of test)

Before I finalise this, I’d appreciate advice to ensure I’m not making any big mistakes or overlooking anything important.
Thanks

Bro you're 18 and disappeared for 3 weeks and got the answers you wanted elsewhere now you're coming back here to post a cycle that makes zero sense at your age and it's scientifically unsound as well.

I'm not trying to be too hard on you but I remember your age and I don't recommend any of this at all.

Propionate requires at least 3 injections per week due to its short half-life

Then why not run TestE? Even if it's a tested sporting event TestP will leave metabolites so why bother with TestP? Your argument that blood serum concentrations are more stable with TestP is unsound. If you want ultra stability then pin 3xWeek with TestE not something with a 2-3 day half life. You'd have to pin TestP ED to get that type of stability if that's your main focus.

I have been told ai is not needed at this dose of test

By who? 200mg is twice some TRT doses and you could aromatize over range and some do.

To maintain intratesticular testosterone and preserve fertility

HCG won't do this on your short cycle. The last thing an 18 yr old needs is 200mg Test with 250mcg HCG of all things. You will shut down regardless.

and i chose test p as I watched a vid

One whole vid?

i’ll get bloods done, which bloods would u recommend other then test and e2?

https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...what-labs-to-test-on-steroids-and-trt.107781/

 

[LevButlerov]

this is the reason your doing a cycle I would reconsider. Test is gonna put water weight on which is not great for sprinting.
Proper running biomechanics are the only thing that will help with intrinsic/extrinsic foot musculature. Not drugs.



You are also much too young to be using hormones. You body/brain are not done developing yet.

@LevButlerov -He is 18-20yo per his original post.

I do agree with you @s.gentz
@jjjjii7 I think he's 19 so he's over 18 but I also think he already has this cycle up, do you @jjjjii7 ?

 

[LevButlerov]

i’ll get bloods done, which bloods would u recommend other then test and e2? and i chose test p as I watched a vid where a person said having to inject test p daily keeps hormones more stable therefore not as prone to acne, aromatisation etc.

start with this bloods list @jjjjii7
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...what-labs-to-test-on-steroids-and-trt.107781/

 

[jjjjii7]

I do agree with you @s.gentz
@jjjjii7 I think he's 19 so he's over 18 but I also think he already has this cycle up, do you @jjjjii7 ?

the roids came in today I was even gonna try just a 4 week cycle first to see hie body reacts then go to 12 weeks as I am really struggling with recovery , surly 4 weeks can’t hurt right? My new plan is 4 weeks i will pin 28.5mg test p everyday into my shoulder does this sound like a reasonable dose?

Honestly bro Im struggling with recovery played sport all my life close to retiring coz of injury this is kinda my last lifeline, alrdy took 8months off and struggling to keep up with recovery during pre season conditioning.

Also everyone, I keep seeing that 18/19 is too young for roids, but i keep seeing on social media teens hopping on roids and living happy and better lives it’s hard to not hop on when i see others my age on it so often.

I will get my bloods done today, additionally do you guys think a smaller dose would be more appropriate?

 

[jjjjii7]

Bro you're 18 and disappeared for 3 weeks and got the answers you wanted elsewhere now you're coming back here to post a cycle that makes zero sense at your age and it's scientifically unsound as well.

I'm not trying to be too hard on you but I remember your age and I don't recommend any of this at all.


Then why not run TestE? Even if it's a tested sporting event TestP will leave metabolites so why bother with TestP? Your argument that blood serum concentrations are more stable with TestP is unsound. If you want ultra stability then pin 3xWeek with TestE not something with a 2-3 day half life. You'd have to pin TestP ED to get that type of stability if that's your main focus.

By who? 200mg is twice some TRT doses and you could aromatize over range and some do.

HCG won't do this on your short cycle. The last thing an 18 yr old needs is 200mg Test with 250mcg HCG of all things. You will shut down regardless.


One whole vid?


https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...what-labs-to-test-on-steroids-and-trt.107781/

ok so forget the hcg? my biggest fear is going infertile when im like 30 and not being able to reproduce but I was told it’s extremely rare with just a 4-12 weeks cycle on 200mg test, a guy on tiktok said take hcg during my cycle to give me best shot of avoiding infertility permananetly, but reading this you advice hcg is unneeded?

 

[jjjjii7]

Test prop needs to be every day or every other day max. Spaced any further out you will get big swings in your hormones and feel like shit. You should be using testE or testC.


HCG does not keep you from being shut down when using exogenous test. It only keeps seamen volume higher when on it. If your just doing a 12 week cycle I would not even bother with it. You will not atrophy in that time and you will increased estrogen production. If your on TRT that is a different story.


If this is the reason your doing a cycle I would reconsider. Test is gonna put water weight on which is not great for sprinting.
Proper running biomechanics are the only thing that will help with intrinsic/extrinsic foot musculature. Not drugs.



You are also much too young to be using hormones. You body/brain are not done developing yet.

@LevButlerov -He is 18-20yo per his original post.

does small dose test really put on noticeable water weight? I always see people on test energetic, lean, ripped effortlessly

 

[HarleyGuy]

ok so forget the hcg? my biggest fear is going infertile when im like 30 and not being able to reproduce but I was told it’s extremely rare with just a 4-12 weeks cycle on 200mg test, a guy on tiktok said take hcg during my cycle to give me best shot of avoiding infertility permananetly, but reading this you advice hcg is unneeded?

HCG waste of money while on that cycle it won't accomplish anything to save you from shutting down. You need to learn about PCT first, steroids last.

• And please don't listen to Tik Tok for advice on what to inject in your body stay here on EVO this is what we do.
• You're not still high dosing sugar are you?

Do you still want to have kids? I recommend becoming as learned as possible on steroids in this order:

1. PCT (after steroid usage how can you come off in a healthy way to get your natural test, hormones and HPTA back up and running)
2. Diet/Supps (we must see you have this dialed in with the proper macros and calories and supplements)
3. Training (we need to make sure you're training is consistent and proper)
4. Steroids (then, if you trust this forum which you should, we will get you squared away for a proper cycle suited and tailored to you)

 

[jjjjii7]

HCG waste of money while on that cycle it won't accomplish anything to save you from shutting down. You need to learn about PCT first, steroids last.

• And please don't listen to Tik Tok for advice on what to inject in your body stay here on EVO this is what we do.
• You're not still high dosing sugar are you?

Do you still want to have kids? I recommend becoming as learned as possible on steroids in this order:

1. PCT (after steroid usage how can you come off in a healthy way to get your natural test, hormones and HPTA back up and running)
2. Diet/Supps (we must see you have this dialed in with the proper macros and calories and supplements)
3. Training (we need to make sure you're training is consistent and proper)
4. Steroids (then, if you trust this forum which you should, we will get you squared away for a proper cycle suited and tailored to

HCG waste of money while on that cycle it won't accomplish anything to save you from shutting down. You need to learn about PCT first, steroids last.

• And please don't listen to Tik Tok for advice on what to inject in your body stay here on EVO this is what we do.
• You're not still high dosing sugar ar

Do you still want to have kids? I recommend becoming as learned as possible on steroids in this order:

1. PCT (after steroid usage how can you come off in a healthy way to get your natural test, hormones and HPTA back up and running)
2. Diet/Supps (we must see you have this dialed in with the proper macros and calories and supplements)
3. Training (we need to make sure you're training is consistent and proper)

HCG waste of money while on that cycle it won't accomplish anything to save you from shutting down. You need to learn about PCT first, steroids last.

• And please don't listen to Tik Tok for advice on what to inject in your body stay here on EVO this is what we do.
• You're not still high dosing sugar are you?

Do you still want to have kids? I recommend becoming as learned as possible on steroids in this order:

1. PCT (after steroid usage how can you come off in a healthy way to get your natural test, hormones and HPTA back up and running)
2. Diet/Supps (we must see you have this dialed in with the proper macros and calories and supplements)
3. Training (we need to make sure you're training is consistent and proper)
4. Steroids (then, if you trust this forum which you should, we will get you squared away for a proper cycle suited and tailored to you)

My diet is locked in im off the sugar diet, breakfast is eggs on toast, lunch is steak rice and veg, pre training and pre gym is ground beef with mince, post training and gym which is dinner time normally is steak or chicken with carrot broccoli, potatoe and then i might have a few snacks at night if im craving sugar after a hard workout

I train 6x a week which involved sprinting, jumping/pliometrics, change of direction, also do sled pushes at gym, I do calf raises everyday, I do a proper gym lower body sesh involving leg press, leg extensions, hip thrusts, leg curls, as for upper body i took a break as hurt both shoulders physio said should be better in a week then i’ll go back to push pull legs

 

[HarleyGuy]

My diet is locked in im off the sugar diet, breakfast is eggs on toast, lunch is steak rice and veg, pre training and pre gym is ground beef with mince, post training and gym which is dinner time normally is steak or chicken with carrot broccoli, potatoe and then i might have a few snacks at night if im craving sugar after a hard workout

I train 6x a week which involved sprinting, jumping/pliometrics, change of direction, also do sled pushes at gym, I do calf raises everyday, I do a proper gym lower body sesh involving leg press, leg extensions, hip thrusts, leg curls, as for upper body i took a break as hurt both shoulders physio said should be better in a week then i’ll go back to push pull legs

Ok perfect. Then you definitely don't need HCG and the TRT+ will be good with that kind of (almost) overtraining even at your young age. HCG won't prevent you from shutting down and just spike estrogen which you'll already have to keep an eye on even at 200mg.

Again, learn about PCT first please if you wanna run a cycle. Plan on bloodwork too.

 

[jjjjii7]

Ok perfect. Then you definitely don't need HCG and the TRT+ will be good with that kind of (almost) overtraining even at your young age. HCG won't prevent you from shutting down and just spike estrogen which you'll already have to keep an eye on even at 200mg.

Again, learn about PCT first please if you wanna run a cycle. Plan on bloodwork too.

All i know is PCT is something people go on after a cycle to help their body regain natural T right?
As for bloods i’ll get then done tomorrow here is my list attached:

 

[HarleyGuy]

All i know is PCT is something people go on after a cycle to help their body regain natural T right?

If that's all you know about PCT then we have to start over at PCT, then diet, then training, then steroids. Have your PCT ordered and received and ready before you have your steroids and dosing ready. Bro you're a teenager! PCT is extremely important you'll be ahead of the game and your gym bros by understandind PCT and safe gear usage both on and then off. There's tons of PCT info on here do a search and there's threads devoted to it as well.

And add ALT/ALK and creatinine to your bloodwork, although they may likely add this by default.

 

[jjjjii7]

If that's all you know about PCT then we have to start over at PCT, then diet, then training, then steroids. Have your PCT ordered and received and ready before you have your steroids and dosing ready. Bro you're a teenager! PCT is extremely important you'll be ahead of the game and your gym bros by understandind PCT and safe gear usage both on and then off. There's tons of PCT info on here do a search and there's threads devoted to it as well.

And add ALT/ALK and creatinine to your bloodwork, although they may likely add this by default.

ok bet i’ll research PCT i received my test today but plan to start test on saturday when im more educated, so i have 3 days of extensive research on PCT, thanks bro

 

[HarleyGuy]

ok bet i’ll research PCT i received my test today but plan to start test on saturday when im more educated, so i have 3 days of extensive research on PCT, thanks bro

Hey man it's your HPTA and your nutsack if you can do it in 3 days then more power to ya!

 

[LevButlerov]

the roids came in today I was even gonna try just a 4 week cycle first to see hie body reacts then go to 12 weeks as I am really struggling with recovery , surly 4 weeks can’t hurt right? My new plan is 4 weeks i will pin 28.5mg test p everyday into my shoulder does this sound like a reasonable dose?

Honestly bro Im struggling with recovery played sport all my life close to retiring coz of injury this is kinda my last lifeline, alrdy took 8months off and struggling to keep up with recovery during pre season conditioning.

Also everyone, I keep seeing that 18/19 is too young for roids, but i keep seeing on social media teens hopping on roids and living happy and better lives it’s hard to not hop on when i see others my age on it so often.

I will get my bloods done today, additionally do you guys think a smaller dose would be more appropriate?

You are 19 right? @jjjjii7 and we cannot tell you that a 4 week run of test p is safe because it is not.
recovery issues at your age are almost never fixed with hormones so you should not start this.
usually overtraining or poor training and improper nutrition are the issue

You need blood work first, do you have it?

 

[s.gentz]

he roids came in today I was even gonna try just a 4 week cycle first to see hie body reacts then go to 12 weeks as I am really struggling with recovery , surly 4 weeks can’t hurt right? My new plan is 4 weeks i will pin 28.5mg test p everyday into my shoulder does this sound like a reasonable dose?

Not a good plan. 4 weeks is not enough to accomplish anything. The test won't even be fully saturated in your system yet. You are gonna shut yourself down for nothing.
At your age you should be taking nothing. Your gonna mess up your hormones while your body/brain are still developing.
Do not do this.

 

[jjjjii7]

You are 19 right? @jjjjii7 and we cannot tell you that a 4 week run of test p is safe because it is not.
recovery issues at your age are almost never fixed with hormones so you should not start this.
usually overtraining or poor training and improper nutrition are the issue

You need blood work first, do you have it?

the issue i have bro is the overtraining is forced on me by my coach so i can’t avoid it
6x a week it’s killing me bruh

 

[jjjjii7]

Not a good plan. 4 weeks is not enough to accomplish anything. The test won't even be fully saturated in your system yet. You are gonna shut yourself down for nothing.
At your age you should be taking nothing. Your gonna mess up your hormones while your body/brain are still developing.
Do not do this.

Ahh dang was hoping it was an instant effect

 

[jjjjii7]

You are 19 right? @jjjjii7 and we cannot tell you that a 4 week run of test p is safe because it is not.
recovery issues at your age are almost never fixed with hormones so you should not start this.
usually overtraining or poor training and improper nutrition are the issue

You need blood work first, do you have it?

bloods getting done tomoz

 

[s.gentz]

Ahh dang was hoping it was an instant effect

That not how things work.

the issue i have bro is the overtraining is forced on me by my coach so i can’t avoid it
6x a week it’s killing me bruh

Steroids help with recovery but not overtraining. You should not be taring 6x per week whether it is sprinting or weight training. Seems to me your "coach" is not that great.

You need to listen instead of resisting. Not one person on here is gonna tell you using steroids at 19yo is a good idea.

 

[jjjjii7]

That not how things work.


Steroids help with recovery but not overtraining. You should not be taring 6x per week whether it is sprinting or weight training. Seems to me your "coach" is not that great.

You need to listen instead of resisting. Not one person on here is gonna tell you using steroids at 19yo is a good idea.

I know bro I wouldn’t train 6x a week if i had a choice the idiot coach thinks pushing us is smart but it’s making me and my team injury prone, and yeah everyone telling me roids is a bad idea but i still want to go ahead with it was wanting to get some advice here to do it somewhat safely and not cook my bodies hormones long term once off if that’s even possible?

 

[s.gentz]

everyone telling me roids is a bad idea but i still want to go ahead with it was wanting to get some advice here to do it somewhat safely and not cook my bodies hormones long term once off if that’s even possible?

So your test levels are the highest they will be in your life right now. When you take exogenous test for any length of time that shuts down your natural production. When you come off the test and try to restart natural production there is no grantee your natty levels will come back to where they currently are. Your also overlooking that your brain is still developing into your late 20's. Messing with your hormonal balance while your brain is developing could have downstream conquests for the rest of your life. And for what?
The advice your gonna get is to not use gear right now. It's just about the worst thing you can do.
If you want to continue a training/diet log we can certainly guide you or if you show us bloodwork that shows deficiencies then we are more than happy to help fix those but i'll say it again, nobody is gonna help a 19yo use steroids.

 

[LevButlerov]

bloods getting done tomoz

perfect update us after @jjjjii7

 

[LevButlerov]

the issue i have bro is the overtraining is forced on me by my coach so i can’t avoid it
6x a week it’s killing me bruh

forced on? what sport is this? @jjjjii7

 

[jjjjii7]

forced on? what sport is this? @jjjjii7

forced meaning if I don’t keep up i’ll get dropped from the squad

 

[jjjjii7]

So your test levels are the highest they will be in your life right now. When you take exogenous test for any length of time that shuts down your natural production. When you come off the test and try to restart natural production there is no grantee your natty levels will come back to where they currently are. Your also overlooking that your brain is still developing into your late 20's. Messing with your hormonal balance while your brain is developing could have downstream conquests for the rest of your life. And for what?
The advice your gonna get is to not use gear right now. It's just about the worst thing you can do.
If you want to continue a training/diet log we can certainly guide you or if you show us bloodwork that shows deficiencies then we are more than happy to help fix those but i'll say it again, nobody is gonna help a 19yo use steroids.

okay you raise a fair point I would like to mention I have low test, high cortisol, high igf, this was taken at my natural baseline 6months ago. my thought process is to boost what I was lacking? i’ll get bloods taken again today and results should come in 2 days

 

[jjjjii7]

okay you raise a fair point I would like to mention I have low test, high cortisol, high igf, this was taken at my natural baseline 6months ago. my thought process is to boost what I was lacking? i’ll get bloods taken again today and results should come in 2 days

hey guys to get a general idea of my baseline, these were my bloods around 6months ago (natty,, no hgh no peptides nothing) just wanted to put this here for what’s probs gonna be expected for when i get my blood result in 2 days.

 

[LevButlerov]

forced meaning if I don’t keep up i’ll get dropped from the squad

what kind of sport?

 

[HarleyGuy]

hey guys to get a general idea of my baseline, these were my bloods around 6months ago (natty,, no hgh no peptides nothing) just wanted to put this here for what’s probs gonna be expected for when i get my blood result in 2 days.

low test, high cortisol, high igf

Good baseline bloods to compare to but can you screenshot and post the high IGF and high cortisol as well. Your test also isn't low just so you know. Better yet, post your full blood panel for us to compare to in 2 days.

 

[jjjjii7]

Good baseline bloods to compare to but can you screenshot and post the high IGF and high cortisol as well. Your test also isn't low just so you know. Better yet, post your full blood panel for us to compare to in 2 days.

 

[aussiejimmyj]

what kind of sport?

And what level of competition are you playing at? Is this school sport? @jjjjii7 or club?

 

[jjjjii7]

And what level of competition are you playing at? Is this school sport? @jjjjii7 or club?

it is club but no testing

 

[LevButlerov]

it is club but no testing

I dont get why you need 6d/week , why not get more time off?

 

[jjjjii7]

I dont get why you need 6d/week , why not get more time off?

coach thinks pushing us in pre season will make us better for during season but this is exactly how i got injured last year from overloaded pre season therefore thought test would help for this presseason phase

 

[aussiejimmyj]

coach thinks pushing us in pre season will make us better for during season but this is exactly how i got injured last year from overloaded pre season therefore thought test would help for this presseason phase

how old are you? are you in high school?

 

[jjjjii7]

how old are you? are you in high school?

nah bro I just graduated from school im a young adult 18-20

 

[HarleyGuy]

how old are you? are you in high school?

I am a young adult age 18-20

He's turning 19. He's been told it's not a good idea at his age here: https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/first-test-cycle.107882/#post-1900148

He wants to run it anyway so were supervising him on low dose T only with peptides. His diet has been tweaked as it was way off and he knows his GH dose is too high for what's needed at his age. He's playing ball by getting bloodwork and taking advice.

@jjjjii7 you remember this order I posted in the other thread?

Do you want to have kids? I recommend becoming as learned as possible on steroids in this order:

1. PCT (after steroid usage how can you come off in a healthy way to get your natural test and hormones back up and running)

2. Diet (we have to see you have this dialed in with macros and calories)

3. Training (we need to make sure you're training is consistent and proper first and have established a good base of strength/cardio)

4. Steroids (then, if you trust this forum which you should, we will get you squared away for an 8-week trial run to assist)

 

[jjjjii7]

He's turning 19. He's been told it's not a good idea at his age here: https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/first-test-cycle.107882/#post-1900148

He wants to run it anyway so were supervising him on low dose T only with peptides. His diet has been tweaked as it was way off and he knows his GH dose is too high for what's needed at his age. He's playing ball by getting bloodwork and taking advice.

@jjjjii7 you remember this order I posted in the other thread?

Do you want to have kids? I recommend becoming as learned as possible on steroids in this order:

1. PCT (after steroid usage how can you come off in a healthy way to get your natural test and hormones back up and running)

2. Diet (we have to see you have this dialed in with macros and calories)

3. Training (we need to make sure you're training is consistent and proper first and have established a good base of strength/cardio)

4. Steroids (then, if you trust this forum which you should, we will get you squared away for an 8-week trial run to assist)

yes and i researched pct I seen that it has 2 key bits : 1. restore testicular function and 2 HPTA recovery,. So after my cycle i will need SERMS such as tamoxifen to help hypothalamus and pituitary turn back on, and then i’ll also need HCG to get the testes active again.

This is my understanding is this correct?

 

[s.gentz]

okay you raise a fair point I would like to mention I have low test, high cortisol, high igf, this was taken at my natural baseline 6months ago. my thought process is to boost what I was lacking? i’ll get bloods taken again today and results should come in 2 days

No you don't. At the rate you are training would expect them to be lower than your actual baseline. Overtraining messes up your test levels along with other hormones. I'll say this for the 10th time now. You don't need, nor should you be using anything. You are overtraining and in my estimation prob not eating enough food to maintain your workload.

yes and i researched pct I seen that it has 2 key bits : 1. restore testicular function and 2 HPTA recovery,. So after my cycle i will need SERMS such as tamoxifen to help hypothalamus and pituitary turn back on, and then i’ll also need HCG to get the testes active again.

This is my understanding is this correct?

PCT does not guarantee you will get your natty levels back. It does not reverse any damage done to your developing brain. You are being foolish here.

coach thinks pushing us in pre season will make us better for during season but this is exactly how i got injured last year from overloaded pre season therefore thought test would help for this presseason phase

Your coach doesn't seem like a very smart guy. Doesn't seem to understand the importance of recovery. If I were in your shoes I wouls be looking for another program.

 

[aussiejimmyj]

Also bro you are playing "club" level sport. Cmon haha. You are not training like an elite athlete. You are playing club sport ha. There is no need for AAS and HGH playing "club" level sport in Australia.

 

[HarleyGuy]

No you don't. At the rate you are training would expect them to be lower than your actual baseline. Overtraining messes up your test levels along with other hormones. I'll say this for the 10th time now. You don't need, nor should you be using anything. You are overtraining and in my estimation prob not eating enough food to maintain your workload.


PCT does not guarantee you will get your natty levels back. It does not reverse any damage done to your developing brain. You are being foolish here.

Your coach doesn't seem like a very smart guy. Doesn't seem to understand the importance of recovery. If I were in your shoes I wouls be looking for another program.

Wait, I missed this, this teenager has a fuckin coach?!?!?!?! A coach who is advising him to run cycles and had him not have any clue about PCT? WOW!

 

[LevButlerov]

coach thinks pushing us in pre season will make us better for during season but this is exactly how i got injured last year from overloaded pre season therefore thought test would help for this presseason phase

sounds like you should quit unless this is life changing @jjjjii7

 

[jjjjii7]

[Q

Wait, I missed this, this teenager has a fuckin coach?!?!?!?! A coach who is advising him to run cycles and had him not have any clue about PCT? WOW!

nah bro coach knows nothing about cycle that would be crazy , just an idiot coach pushing the team to train 6x a week and im not coping with recovery so made the choice to give low dose test a shot for faster recovery

 

[aussiejimmyj]

Wait, I missed this, this teenager has a fuckin coach?!?!?!?! A coach who is advising him to run cycles and had him not have any clue about PCT? WOW!

Think he is referencing his club sport coach

 

[jjjjii7]

Hi all here are my bloods, also not sure hie my test is high Im on nothing all I can think is that it’s from the tamoxifen i’ve been taking to resolve the gyno from when I used to be on hgh.
Anyways here’s the bloods guys I plan to start low dose test p tonight daily injection totalling to 200mg a week might even drop it to 100mg a week as only want faster recovery not actual enhanced performance of muscles.

 

[LevButlerov]

Hi all here are my bloods, also not sure hie my test is high Im on nothing all I can think is that it’s from the tamoxifen i’ve been taking to resolve the gyno from when I used to be on hgh.
Anyways here’s the bloods guys I plan to start low dose test p tonight daily injection totalling to 200mg a week might even drop it to 100mg a week as only want faster recovery not actual enhanced performance of muscles.

Your e2 is too high to start a cycle and your test levels already HIGH, did you check? @jjjjii7 you dont need steroids, you're already on steroids natty.
and liver values high you're way overtraining.
Trust us, please, you should NOT use testosterone right now, stay on peptides.

@BeMe @HarleyGuy @vanlife_gymbum @s.gentz
@Allupfromhere @Pigsy @Dreamer @Freki @R.AP
@waggat @Yuri @rizzlekdizzle @Grumpy
@toddthelineman

 

[Dreamer]

All you would gain from doing test is slightly higher T, e2 problems and infertility - just get your diet and training right - stop looking for shortcuta

 

[s.gentz]

Hi all here are my bloods, also not sure hie my test is high Im on nothing all I can think is that it’s from the tamoxifen i’ve been taking to resolve the gyno from when I used to be on hgh.
Anyways here’s the bloods guys I plan to start low dose test p tonight daily injection totalling to 200mg a week might even drop it to 100mg a week as only want faster recovery not actual enhanced performance of muscles.

Your test is high because your a teenager. Why would you even consider ruining this by taking gear for a situation (overtraining) that will not be fixed by gear.
If you want us to help with diet and training we are more than happy but as I have said we are not going to advise a healthy teeneager to use drugs.


@LevButlerov
@HarleyGuy
@Dreamer
@aussiejimmyj

 

[waggat]

How has your total test gone from 13 to 30?

And LH is above range.

 

[jjjjii7]

Your e2 is too high to start a cycle and your test levels already HIGH, did you check? @jjjjii7 you dont need steroids, you're already on steroids natty.
and liver values high you're way overtraining.
Trust us, please, you should NOT use testosterone right now, stay on peptides.

@BeMe @HarleyGuy @vanlife_gymbum @s.gentz
@Allupfromhere @Pigsy @Dreamer @Freki @R.AP
@waggat @Yuri @rizzlekdizzle @Grumpy
@toddthelineman

Your e2 is too high to start a cycle and your test levels already HIGH, did you check? @jjjjii7 you dont need steroids, you're already on steroids natty.
and liver values high you're way overtraining.
Trust us, please, you should NOT use testosterone right now, stay on peptides.

@BeMe @HarleyGuy @vanlife_gymbum @s.gentz
@Allupfromhere @Pigsy @Dreamer @Freki @R.AP
@waggat @Yuri @rizzlekdizzle @Grumpy
@toddthelineman

I won’t be starting tonight I will be waiting a few more day

How has your total test gone from 13 to 30?

And LH is above range.

Tamoxifin for gyno no only just stopped taking it i never noticed it could do that

 

[waggat]

I won’t be starting tonight I will be waiting a few more day
Tamoxifin for gyno no only just stopped taking it i never noticed it could do that

Hang on.... How did you get gyno? Is it from puberty?

 

[jjjjii7]

I won’t be starting tonight I will be waiting a few more day
Tamoxifin for gyno no only just stopped taking it i never noticed it could do that

everyone here is actually misunderstood the situation, i’ve taken blood tests multiple times over lasts year like 4-5 times constantly showing low testosterone for my age, this test showing high T is directly cause from me dosing 20-40mg tamoxifen daily for the last 6 weeks to help my gyno, once my body rebounds from the tamoxifen my test and other hormones impacted by tamoxifen will go back to to the low ish baseline i normally have

 

[jjjjii7]

Hang on.... How did you get gyno? Is it from puberty?

I went on hgh 5-7 months ago from injury it fixed my injury very well but caused me gyno this log talks about it if you scroll up bro

 

[waggat]

everyone here is actually misunderstood the situation, i’ve taken blood tests multiple times over lasts year like 4-5 times constantly showing low testosterone for my age, this test showing high T is directly cause from me dosing 20-40mg tamoxifen daily for the last 6 weeks to help my gyno, once my body rebounds from the tamoxifen my test and other hormones impacted by tamoxifen will go back to to the low ish baseline i normally have

Have you tried to fix lifestyle to see if that improves test levels.

How is your sleep?

Have you been in a calorie deficit for a long time?

The 6 days training a week for your sport. What does that involve?

What supplements do you take? Zinc, magnesium etc?