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YachtsOfFun
New Member
I wouldn't advise it.
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Use at least a TRT dosage of Testosterone or some HCG to keep your balls going. Deca will shut you down hard and give you limp dick.
the truth of the matter is guys in the old days 80's and early 90's would run deca alone with proviron for the simple reason is AI's did not exist in those times so they knew better than to stack testosterone. you can listen to our podcast with Nelson Montana where he talks about that. nobody in those days was dumb enough to use testosterone like people do today because they didn't want bitch tits, they would laugh at people who did that.
talk to any guy in their 50's in your gym and ask him about deca and he will have a 100% different opinion of the compound then if you ask a 20 something.
having said all that with the availability of AI's today stacking an androgen with deca is a smart idea
I recommend a low dose of either tren or testosterone with deca to give it an androgenic kick
you also need to use proviron when you use deca because nandrolones BIND to DHT receptors. THAT is why you get deca dick.
again it is interesting that guys in the 80's actually knew how to stack steroids better than guys today. they knew in that time to use proviron with deca. JP who is in his 60's always uses proviron in his cycles because he knows this info and it is nothing new.
today it is a joke the way guys stack steroids, they just stack 8 compounds with zero understanding of what they are doing
that is why i wrote a stacking steroids article that actually teaches you that you don't need to stack a million things, you can stack smartly and get the most out of your cycle https://www.evolutionary.org/stacking-steroids-part-1/
talk to any guy in their 50's in your gym and ask him about deca and he will have a 100% different opinion of the compound then if you ask a 20 something.
having said all that with the availability of AI's today stacking an androgen with deca is a smart idea
I recommend a low dose of either tren or testosterone with deca to give it an androgenic kick
you also need to use proviron when you use deca because nandrolones BIND to DHT receptors. THAT is why you get deca dick.
again it is interesting that guys in the 80's actually knew how to stack steroids better than guys today. they knew in that time to use proviron with deca. JP who is in his 60's always uses proviron in his cycles because he knows this info and it is nothing new.
today it is a joke the way guys stack steroids, they just stack 8 compounds with zero understanding of what they are doing
that is why i wrote a stacking steroids article that actually teaches you that you don't need to stack a million things, you can stack smartly and get the most out of your cycle https://www.evolutionary.org/stacking-steroids-part-1/
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You do not necessarily need to use testosterone with deca, but you DO want to include an androgenic steroid into your cycle. You could do deca + tren instead of deca + testosterone.
Personally I would stick with test + deca. Tren and deca are both nandrolones. Running two nandrolones in the same cycle is asking for prolactin issues if you ask me.
Why fix what isn't broken. Nothing will put on size and strength like the old school classic bulking cycle of test + deca + dbol -> http://www.evolutionary.org/testosterone-deca-durabolin-dbol-cycle
Remember to include the proper support supplements with your cycle:
1. An AI to keep estrogen in the low-normal range. Aromasin at 10mg EOD is a good dosage.
2. An anti-prolactin drug to keep prolactin in the low-normal range. Cabergoline at 0.25mg EOD is a good dosage.
The support supplements are very important because high estrogen and prolactin levels can lead to side effects like gyno and water retention.
I would also add in a good liver aid supplement like n2guard from n2bm.com when using the dbol because it is a liver toxic oral steroid.
Here's what I recommend:
Weeks 1 - 16
testosterone 500mg/week
deca 300mg/week
aromasin 12.5mg every other day
cabergoline 0.25mg every other day
Weeks 1 - 6
dbol 30mg/day
n2guard 7 capsules/day
After your cycle run the perfect PCT protocol: http://www.evolutionary.org/the-perfect-post-cycle-therapy-pct/
Personally I would stick with test + deca. Tren and deca are both nandrolones. Running two nandrolones in the same cycle is asking for prolactin issues if you ask me.
Why fix what isn't broken. Nothing will put on size and strength like the old school classic bulking cycle of test + deca + dbol -> http://www.evolutionary.org/testosterone-deca-durabolin-dbol-cycle
Remember to include the proper support supplements with your cycle:
1. An AI to keep estrogen in the low-normal range. Aromasin at 10mg EOD is a good dosage.
2. An anti-prolactin drug to keep prolactin in the low-normal range. Cabergoline at 0.25mg EOD is a good dosage.
The support supplements are very important because high estrogen and prolactin levels can lead to side effects like gyno and water retention.
I would also add in a good liver aid supplement like n2guard from n2bm.com when using the dbol because it is a liver toxic oral steroid.
Here's what I recommend:
Weeks 1 - 16
testosterone 500mg/week
deca 300mg/week
aromasin 12.5mg every other day
cabergoline 0.25mg every other day
Weeks 1 - 6
dbol 30mg/day
n2guard 7 capsules/day
After your cycle run the perfect PCT protocol: http://www.evolutionary.org/the-perfect-post-cycle-therapy-pct/
While you can, I still advise to run test with every cycle. Even if it is just a lower dose.
Fit-PharmD
New member
I see this debate quite often and I have to disagree with vehemently with the idea of running a cycle without test. Look science and pharmaceuticals have progressed greatly since the 70's and 80's. The reason proviron was used is bc it had some antiestrogenic properties and the AI's we use today were not around. Proviron is massively weak antiestrogen compared to arimadex or aromasin. It is no longer needed on cycle. Yes you can listen to the old guys as they have knowledge of the old days, that doesn't mean they are corrrect just bc they are from the golden era.
I honestly cringe when I see individuals who are supposedly reputable say to run cycles without test. It is absolutely ludacrous. No other steroid hormone can replace testosterone and act on the receptors and have the same down stream effects. So by injecting an exogenous steroid that is not test will suppress your natural test to zero and cause all types of problems. How this escapes ppl I do not undertand, it is basic science and what I learned in med school. This goes to show how those who go to the gym and have no medical background and give advice can really do damage to others health. Often times they will defend themselves to the death and not consider any possible truths bc they don't want to feel like they are wrong. If you run two nandrolones like deca and tren, your dick will not work for a long time and you will have no sex drive and your mood swings are going to be horrendous. Go ahead though, try it then come back and PM me for how to fix it.
I have kept my mouth shut when I see ppl recommend cycles without test and how they claim the old ways are far superior. Just look at the muscle mass that the BB's are putting on today. There is a reason they are referred to as the "Mass Monsters". The types of steroids now available are much better and the ancillaries allow them to be run at higher doses without the sides. I just can't stay silent anymore and I hope this doesn't offend anyone but please just do some research using medical texts and not heresay or anecdotal evidence from older gym rats. I am going to save this response and anytime I see someone new ask about running a cycle I will post this response. I just can't stand idly by and watch harm come to anyone. That is the whole purpose I started responding to forums bc of how much incorrect info is out there.
I honestly cringe when I see individuals who are supposedly reputable say to run cycles without test. It is absolutely ludacrous. No other steroid hormone can replace testosterone and act on the receptors and have the same down stream effects. So by injecting an exogenous steroid that is not test will suppress your natural test to zero and cause all types of problems. How this escapes ppl I do not undertand, it is basic science and what I learned in med school. This goes to show how those who go to the gym and have no medical background and give advice can really do damage to others health. Often times they will defend themselves to the death and not consider any possible truths bc they don't want to feel like they are wrong. If you run two nandrolones like deca and tren, your dick will not work for a long time and you will have no sex drive and your mood swings are going to be horrendous. Go ahead though, try it then come back and PM me for how to fix it.
I have kept my mouth shut when I see ppl recommend cycles without test and how they claim the old ways are far superior. Just look at the muscle mass that the BB's are putting on today. There is a reason they are referred to as the "Mass Monsters". The types of steroids now available are much better and the ancillaries allow them to be run at higher doses without the sides. I just can't stay silent anymore and I hope this doesn't offend anyone but please just do some research using medical texts and not heresay or anecdotal evidence from older gym rats. I am going to save this response and anytime I see someone new ask about running a cycle I will post this response. I just can't stand idly by and watch harm come to anyone. That is the whole purpose I started responding to forums bc of how much incorrect info is out there.
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