Natural test levels after cycle

[marshall90]

There is a lot of posts about natural test levels after someone has cycled and everyone seems to have a different option. The most common belief is that no matter how good your PCT is, your natural test level is going to go down every time you run a cycle. Obviously numerous cycles/blasting and cruising will lead to TRT being needed. I just find it interesting from what I have seen on these forums most people new to using gear, their main fear is gyno when your natural test levels should be the main concern unless they are planing to be on gear / TRT for life.

I am struggling to find studies on natural test levels after running a cycle in healthy males so if you know any could you please share them. If you can share your personal experiences with your test levels after cycles it would be helpful too (especially if you have bloodwork from before and after).

 

[Ahmad90]

I personally am about to finish my first cycle and cant wait to get bloods done later on. As long as your body's hormonal system is balanced (well balanced PCT can makw it easier), your test levels should go up to normal or beyond normal. Just keep eating right and training. I talked to a guy a while ago who said his testosterone levels were in the upper 900s off cycle and he had previously done 4-5 cycles!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[marshall90]

Thanks for the impute. I guess most of the people that make threads on the topic are the ones that had issues rather than the people who did their cycle and everything went back to normal afterwards. Obviously some people don't fully recover their natural test from being shut down and from looking through AAS forums it's not hard to find examples.

I guess it's just a risk people have to take into account and decide if the reward outweighs the risk. Anyone else gain natural test levels long after their cycle finish?

 

[jp4355]

I've been Cycling since the Late 70's.
Even did a Blast and Cruise for almost 1 1/2 years.
My most Recent Natty Total Test was at 842 Ng/Dl.

So from my Experience, if it's done Correctly and you don't Stop taking care of yourself (Diet & Training) inbetween Cycles.
You can Cycle for Decades and not be Worried about TRT.

But I know plenty of Young Guys who've just Jumped-in to either Prohormones or AAS without a Clue.
And have had to Deal with Long Term Issues.
This is Usually when TRT becomes the result of Uninformed Choices.

So always Take The Time to Research everything you do 1st !
Don't take the Advice of some Gym Rat, even if He's Cycled.
You have the Advantage of the Internet these Days so Use It and Be Safe.............................................. JP

 

[muskate]

All studies done on steroids are done in hormone replacement therapy dosages in seniors or people with muscle wasting diseases such as HIV, cancer etc.

If your cycles are reasonable and you follow proper PCTs and time off in-between, you MOST LIKELY (99.9%) have nothing to worry about with long term HPTA suppression.

There is a reason you keep hearing every moderator recommend the perfect PCT protocol after every single cycle you do.
http://www.evolutionary.org/the-perfect-post-cycle-therapy-pct/
You can order everything you need for the PCT protocol from ag-guys.com, n2bm.com and sarms1.com.

 

[marshall90]

Thanks for the advice. It's always hard to make an educated decision when there is no real studies done. I was linked this on another AAS forum. It is an old study and it's not exactly conclusive but it does seem to suggest a reductions of natural test levels in ASS users (tested on tall men). What are your thoughts?

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2010-0435

Conclusion: At a mean follow-up of 21 yr after high-dose androgen treatment, we conclude that fatherhood and semen quality in tall treated men are not affected. Serum testosterone levels, however, are reduced in androgen-treated men. Future research is required to determine whether declining testosterone levels may become clinically relevant for these men as they age.
High-dose sex steroid treatment of tall boys does not affect their fatherhood or semen quality, as assessed after a mean follow-up of 21 years; however, serum testosterone levels are significantly reduced in androgen-treated tall men.
- See more at: http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2010-0435#sthash.xYKG693X.dpuf

Also what are your options on HCG been taking through out a cycle? Another thing people are divide on. Most people seem to thing taking 250mg-300mg twice a week during your cycle is best.

Thanks for all the replies, just gathering all the info right now, it helps when there is seasoned members out there happy to share their experiences.

 

[marshall90]

Someone else linked me to this from another AAS forum. I know the study wasn't 100% conclusive but it suggests that AAS will effect natural test levels at least when used at at younger age. I guess the question I need to do more research on is how much of the damage can you mitigate with correct PCT? If anyone has any more experiences they would like to share it would be appreciated.

Abstract
Background/Objective: Sex steroid treatment to reduce final height of tall boys has been available since the 1950s. In women, it has been shown to interfere with fertility. In men, no such data are available. We therefore evaluated fertility and gonadal function in tall men who did or did not receive high-dose androgen treatment in adolescence.

Methods: We conducted a retrospective cohort study of 116 tall men, of whom 60 had been treated. Reproductive and gonadal function was assessed by standardized interview, semen analysis, endocrine parameters, ultrasound imaging, and fatherhood. Mean age at treatment commencement was 14.2 yr, and mean follow-up was 21.2 yr.

Results: Sixty-six men (36 treated and 30 untreated) had attempted to achieve fatherhood. The probability of conceiving their first pregnancy within 1 yr was similar in treated and untreated men (26 vs. 24; Breslow P = 0.8). Eleven treated and 13 untreated men presented with a left-sided varicocele (P = 0.5). Testicular volume, sperm quality, and serum LH, FSH, and inhibin B levels were comparable between treated and untreated men. However, treated men had significantly reduced serum T levels, adjusted for known confounders [mean (sd) 13.3 (1.8) vs. 15.2 (1.9) nmol/liter; P = 0.005). In addition, testicular volume and serum inhibin B and FSH levels in treated men were significantly correlated with age at treatment commencement.

Conclusion: At a mean follow-up of 21 yr after high-dose androgen treatment, we conclude that fatherhood and semen quality in tall treated men are not affected. Serum testosterone levels, however, are reduced in androgen-treated men. Future research is required to determine whether declining testosterone levels may become clinically relevant for these men as they age.

High-dose sex steroid treatment of tall boys does not affect their fatherhood or semen quality, as assessed after a mean follow-up of 21 years; however, serum testosterone levels are significantly reduced in androgen-treated tall men.

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2010-0435

 

[marshall90]

Opps, the first post didn't go through because it had to be approved by a admin and I didn't realize so I posted again, sorry for the double post.

 

[LevButlerov]

There is a lot of posts about natural test levels after someone has cycled and everyone seems to have a different option. The most common belief is that no matter how good your PCT is, your natural test level is going to go down every time you run a cycle. Obviously numerous cycles/blasting and cruising will lead to TRT being needed. I just find it interesting from what I have seen on these forums most people new to using gear, their main fear is gyno when your natural test levels should be the main concern unless they are planing to be on gear / TRT for life.

I am struggling to find studies on natural test levels after running a cycle in healthy males so if you know any could you please share them. If you can share your personal experiences with your test levels after cycles it would be helpful too (especially if you have bloodwork from before and after).

As long as you cycle reasonable dosages of steroids, and run proper PCT after each cycle, as well as use the right ancillaries, there should be no problems at all with natural testosterone levels, no matter the number of cycle made.

 

[stevesmi]

a lot of the young guys won't like this but over the years I've analyzed hundreds of bloods from guys and one thing is certain. if you disrupt your HPTA when you are under 21 you stand almost a 100% chance of that effecting you the rest of your life. if you run under 25 the odds are not as high but they are still high.

your best bet is to wait after 25
spend MOST of the year totally off hormones
and run proper pct's and bloods to flag anything wrong

if you do not do all 3 of those things then you will be on HRT before you know it

 

[invincible]

I've been Cycling since the Late 70's.
Even did a Blast and Cruise for almost 1 1/2 years.
My most Recent Natty Total Test was at 842 Ng/Dl.

So from my Experience, if it's done Correctly and you don't Stop taking care of yourself (Diet & Training) inbetween Cycles.
You can Cycle for Decades and not be Worried about TRT.

But I know plenty of Young Guys who've just Jumped-in to either Prohormones or AAS without a Clue.
And have had to Deal with Long Term Issues.
This is Usually when TRT becomes the result of Uninformed Choices.

So always Take The Time to Research everything you do 1st !
Don't take the Advice of some Gym Rat, even if He's Cycled.
You have the Advantage of the Internet these Days so Use It and Be Safe.............................................. JP

i find that hard 842 NG/dl natural.. that means you being off for a year at least? as i remember you were up there in age?
i know guys at 30 with lower number?

- - - Updated - - -

All studies done on steroids are done in hormone replacement therapy dosages in seniors or people with muscle wasting diseases such as HIV, cancer etc.

If your cycles are reasonable and you follow proper PCTs and time off in-between, you MOST LIKELY (99.9%) have nothing to worry about with long term HPTA suppression.

There is a reason you keep hearing every moderator recommend the perfect PCT protocol after every single cycle you do.
http://www.evolutionary.org/the-perfect-post-cycle-therapy-pct/
You can order everything you need for the PCT protocol from ag-guys.com, n2bm.com and sarms1.com.

i know a lot of people are saying perfect pct protocol equalst good sresults, but i find hard to believe HCG generate is that great, its basically a tribilus product . does anyone have bloods proven only hcg generate and then prove that it will increase test levels naturally.?

 

[invincible]

i find that hard 842 NG/dl natural.. that means you being off for a year at least? as i remember you were up there in age?
i know guys at 30 with lower number?

- - - Updated - - -





i know a lot of people are saying perfect pct protocol equalst good sresults, but i find hard to believe HCG generate is that great, its basically a tribilus product . does anyone have bloods proven only hcg generate and then prove that it will increase test levels naturally.?

a lot of the young guys won't like this but over the years I've analyzed hundreds of bloods from guys and one thing is certain. if you disrupt your HPTA when you are under 21 you stand almost a 100% chance of that effecting you the rest of your life. if you run under 25 the odds are not as high but they are still high.

your best bet is to wait after 25
spend MOST of the year totally off hormones
and run proper pct's and bloods to flag anything wrong

if you do not do all 3 of those things then you will be on HRT before you know it

I ran mine at 28 age first time, have normal levels even after 2 years being off.. i also know people that started at 18, and still are normal not on trt.. maybe low on test somewhat..

i have this question all the time. and finally decided to find a endo doctoros to talk to that doesnt give me bullshit that i will suppress myself completely,,
i talk to two so far, one said as long as you keep shorter esters and pct you will be fine.. European endo
the other is Metabolic doc" ever heard of him??" says HPTA its like a rubber band the more you strech it the more you loose little bit off the numbers.. kinda gave me the all around talk i shouldnt mess with, and how he benches 500lbs at 50 natural.. i called him on it thats he is bullshitter...

this is also one of my concerns i wouldnt want to end up on trt for decades... not yet . so i decided to find an endo to keep me safe or at least figure out not to screw myself..

 

[jp4355]

i find that hard 842 NG/dl natural.. that means you being off for a year at least? as i remember you were up there in age?
i know guys at 30 with lower number?

- - - Updated - - -



This is a little lower than what it was 2 years ago.
Then it was 924 Ng/Dl.
But I haven't been taking as much time off.

Not sure what's so hard to believe.
But I also have Extremely High HDL.
I regularly post at between 90 & 106 for my HDL Cholesterol.
Talked to an Endo once who thinks that there is a Correlation between the two........................................... JP