Intro, getting ready for DIY TRT

[Meesh]

LONG POST

'sup bros,
I've been reading up here and elsewhere for a few weeks, and even got some questions answered over in the Homebrewers Lounge. Great info on this board, I'm appreciative for all the stuff I've found here, especially the FAQ posts by Analogman.
Thought I would do a proper introduction and ask a few more questions.
44yo male, 5'11", 215lbs, ~20%bf.
I've been lifting for about two years, always active before that (martial arts, mountain biking, mountaineering, etc.). My lifting goals are strength-oriented, and I do primarily compound barbell exercises using progressive overload programming. From trial and eating I have found getting my lifts beyond a meager 350DL(1X5), 250 SQ, 250 BP 150 OHP (all 3X5) is definitely possible, but requires putting on more bodyfat than I am comfortable with. My diet is pretty clean and I get my macros about right every day, I do all my own cooking, drink little alcohol. I take quite a bit of supps for support of test production and liver function.
I'm currently running GW 5mg/day and Osta 12.5 mg/day, started May 1. Never having done any anabolics before, I find the results so far to be very dramatic and positive. Huge increase in strength and endurance already. In fact if I was only looking for performance enhancement I think I would be happy to stay with low-dose SARMs for a while and see where I could go with them.

However, my desire to start some form of TRT is due to all the QOL issues commonly associated with low T, and being a self-employed guy I am painfully aware of the effects that lower energy, lack of motivation and impaired clarity of thought are having on my earning potential.
My test levels are currently measuring in the high 300s to high 400s. I think when I was in my 20s I remember reading in the 800s+. Typical story with the doctors, and after a bit of researching it seems the only way to go is an expensive anti-ageing clinic or trying to do this myself. So I'm going to try doing this myself.

What I've done so far:
Started SARMs. Maybe this wasn't the best idea but it seemed like low-hanging fruit, and possibly a way to get my bodyfat% lower before starting test, thereby (hopefully) avoiding some estrogenic potential.
Bought goodies. I have in hand or have being shipped:
Clomiphene: 2250mg in tabs
Tamoxifen: 2400mg in tabs
Anastrozole: 112mg in tabs
Exemestane: 2500 mg in tabs + 300mg liquid RC (AG-Guys)
Letrozole: 75mg liquid RC (AG-Guys)
HCG: 6000 IU
T-cyp: 5000mg (Robolics)
T-prop: 500mg (Vermodje)
Ostarine (1 vial currently in use)
Cardarine (1 vial currently in use)
1cc syringes
25g, 5/8" needles
30g, 1" needles
(realize I should probably get ~20g needles for loading syringes)
So, I probably overdid it on AI/PCT stuff but I wanted to make sure that I had options in case certain drugs didn't work with me.

Bloods:
I got blood drawn yesterday. Female hormone profile, Private MD-Labcorp. Hopefully will get results soon.

Doctor:
My doc admitted that he really doesn't know about this stuff and has pointed me elsewhere. He does fully support his patients seeking to optimize their lives though, so he's still got my back even if he disagrees with my decision.

Questions:
1. I'm thinking of starting with TRT dosing (~100 - 125 mg T-cyp/week) but run as a "cycle" for 12 weeks (maybe more?), and then do PCT, see how I recover, evaluate. Does this make any sense? It seems jumping headlong into it with no plan to come out is a little too committing. I can survive without this, so I'd rather see how it works first before deciding to stay on for extended periods and perhaps not be able to come off.
2. Or is the risk of permanent shutdown overblown?

3. If I inject oil 3 or maybe 4 times per week to keep my dosing even that would mean less than 0.2 cc injections each time. At this volume of oil is there any reason to not do subQ injections, other than Being A Man?

4. I'm looking to start this out with low dosing because I believe in finding the minimum effective dose for what my needs are vs. just trying to get maximum benefit from test. I realize however that no matter what I dose I will be shutting down my natural production and relying on what I inject. Is the dosage I mention (100 - 125 mg tcyp/week) a good place to start?

5. Is it a reasonable idea to run the prop on top of the cyp to temporarily experiment with a higher level? Or should I leave that for another cycle?

6. Would PCT look different from what is already suggested on this site (Perfect PCT)? Or go lighter? Or just watch bloods? I ask because although what I'll be injecting is far lower than what you guys are using to cycle, and should result in less side effects, I suppose that in many ways shut down is shut down regardless of what levels of anabolics caused it, and I'll still need to get re-started.

7. I've seen a lot of conflicting discussion regarding HCG. Some say cycle it during TRT, some say never use it until coming off, some say use it low-dose throughout TRT.
Thoughts on a good strategy here?

I'll also admit that I'm open to the idea of running real cycles eventually if I find I dig the high-test lifestyle. I want to start conservatively though and keep tabs on my health response.

Thank you to anyone who can take the time to share their thoughts!

-M

 

[gearhead]

Your TRT dose is too low...
At least 200mgs/week

 

[Atrox]

You should plan PCT if you are trying to see how much the improvement is and if you wish to continue. Your plan is the only way to prevent shutdown.

I read article where guys on cycle were advised to use 200iu of hCG twice a week, then discontinue and begin PCT- Nolva etc... BUT the takeaway I got from it was that slightly more frequent LOW dose HCG was more effective than high doses. Either during or after, I think the key would be to determine the most effective dose. An alternative would be to use HCGenerate or some other test booster (HCGenerate is recommended a lot here) in lieu of HCG.

Remember at 200mg a week, you are going to have suppression and some shutdown but not at an epic level. I personally know a few people who have no sides and only slightly elevated E while on their TRT and only one of them never comes off the TRT. In fact, one is snipped but still does 3 mos. on with a 4 week pct then back on to prevent total shutdown. Not sure why, but he is fortunate- his doc has been on the same page as him since day one. Might have something to do with him telling the doc he as doing TRT with or without him.

The biggest reason for PCT is restoring homeostasis and natural production of both T and E *if you aren't getting sides prior to it. If you do the perfect PCT I don't know why you wouldn't be okay- it's recommended for guy coming off a much more intensive "cycle" so the trick may be in maybe getting a mid PCT lab done just to see where you are.

*this is all info I've picked up here. I haven't done it personally, but if things don't work out with an endocrinologist referral I got, I will be.

Best of Luck

 

[Tha_waco_kid]

Your TRT dose is too low...
At least 200mgs/week

I run 100mg cyp per week and my levels go 800+. So I would say I definitely disagree with this.

 

[Meesh]

Got my labs:
Test Name Result Flag Reference Range Lab
CBC With Differential/Platelet
WBC 5.1 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL SO
RBC 4.71 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL SO
Hemoglobin 15.1 12.6-17.7 g/dL SO
Hematocrit 43.8 37.5-51.0 % SO
MCV 93 79-97 fL SO
MCH 32.1 26.6-33.0 pg SO
MCHC 34.5 31.5-35.7 g/dL SO
RDW 13.3 12.3-15.4 % SO
Platelets 232 155-379 x10E3/uL SO
Neutrophils 54 40-74 % SO
Lymphs 34 14-46 % SO
Monocytes 9 4-12 % SO
Eos 3 0-5 % SO
Basos 0 0-3 % SO
Neutrophils (Absolute) 2.8 1.4-7.0 x10E3/uL SO
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.7 0.7-3.1 x10E3/uL SO
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.5 0.1-0.9 x10E3/uL SO
Eos (Absolute) 0.1 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL SO
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL SO
Immature Granulocytes 0 0-2 % SO
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL SO
Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum 100 HIGH 65-99 mg/dL SO
BUN 21 6-24 mg/dL SO
Creatinine, Serum 1.22 0.76-1.27 mg/dL SO
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 72 >59 mL/min/1.73 SO
eGFR If Africn Am 83 >59 mL/min/1.73 SO
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 17 9-20 SO
Sodium, Serum 138 134-144 mmol/L SO
Potassium, Serum 4.5 3.5-5.2 mmol/L SO
Chloride, Serum 99 97-108 mmol/L SO
Carbon Dioxide, Total 25 19-28 mmol/L SO
Calcium, Serum 9.9 8.7-10.2 mg/dL SO
Protein, Total, Serum 6.5 6.0-8.5 g/dL SO
Albumin, Serum 4.5 3.5-5.5 g/dL SO
Globulin, Total 2.0 1.5-4.5 g/dL SO
A/G Ratio 2.3 1.1-2.5 SO
Bilirubin, Total 0.4 0.0-1.2 mg/dL SO
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 41 39-117 IU/L SO
AST (SGOT) 22 0-40 IU/L SO
ALT (SGPT) 22 0-44 IU/L SO
Testosterone, Serum
Testosterone, Serum 327 LOW 348-1197 ng/dL SO
Comment: Comment SO
Adult male reference interval is based on a population of lean males
up to 40 years old.
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH 2.6 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL SO
FSH, Serum
FSH 4.2 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL SO
1 of 2Estradiol
Estradiol 26.3 7.6-42.6 pg/mL SO

That's a bit of a formatting mess, but the short of it is I don't think my estro levels are anything to worry about. Nor my hematocrit. Fasting blood glucose has always been just above normal range and my doc doesn't know why.

 

[gymrat827]

I run 100mg cyp per week and my levels go 800+. So I would say I definitely disagree with this.

thats hi for 100mg a wk. You are likely getting pharm which would explain some of it and also are a good responder.

id say 150 a wk to start, 250 a wk max......once you know whats what.


The GW and osta are good to use now and shed some fat.




GL

 

[Meesh]

Thanks for the replies guys, keep 'em coming!
Update: a urologist that I saw finally got bloodwork back from another test I had done (for which I stayed up two days straight, drank, all the stuff to drop my T) and since it showed a total of 179 he now wants to see me again about TRT. Hopefully I can get exactly what I want prescribed so I can use reliable pharma grade meds, have a prescription to travel with my gear, etc.
I'm still going to be relying on this board for detailed information, advice, and the perspective of experienced users though. Doc will be my backup for if things go weird.

If any of the more experienced guys can answer some of the questions outlined in my OP I would be most grateful.

Thanks!
Meesh

 

[Meesh]

Pharmacodynamics

There are plenty of sources on the boards and on some other steroid sites, TRT doctor pages etc. that cite half life values for testosterone cypionate at anywhere from 8 to 14 days.
Over on steroidplot.com they say that the actual half life is 5 days, and that everyone else is wrong and got their numbers from old, poorly done calculations/measurements.
I've made my own spreadsheet based on a 10-day half life and the results are certainly different, although both my sheet and steroidplot both tell me about the same thing (front loading seems to get you up faster, frequent pinning better than infrequent, etc.).
It would be nice to have a better idea of the actual rate of decay on cypionate than a range of anywhere from 5 to 14 days though.
Anyone have a reliable source for data on the ester half-lives?
Thanks,
M