Steroid Gurus... UK

[Mobster]

For my ancients sins, having been around a while, I can lay claim to having known (and still know) three of the most well known UK steroid gurus. Back when I first made the decision to go on I wrote to and then brought the books of both the late Paul Borreseon and Mick Hart. Mick is still with us and I've shared a few beers or three with him and a few buddies. He told me of how, back in the day, he had boxes of gear piled up and down the stairs at office he used before they were shipped out. Both he and Paul had the dubious pleasure of attending court as defense witnesses in roid cases.

Both fellas suffered. somewhat, from extremes of mania. Creative one week, heads in the sands another - aka being bipolar. Catch them on a good day and you got their best. Both fucked themselves a little with drugs. Mick, as per one book, with GHB and Paul with the hard stuff. But, as I said, on their good days amazing guys. They differed somewhat beyond the basics in their opinions on cycles. Paul was a 'see whats out there' kinda guy. He had one idea which made a little sense in his 'SHIC' theory (short high intensity cycles). If you get shut down then go hard, go short, grow like fuck, come off. Another thing I liked was an idea of saving up gear, food and the peak of training to go all out. Insulin, GH and all the gear you can handle for one cycle a year. He even suggested a freezer full of steak and proteins etc saved up.

Mick who, at one point, probably advised more than anyone (inc, if the story is true, a Greek weightlifting team) took the view of 'use the least to get the best result'. He said 'if it worked for a 100, a 1000 and maybe even 10000 it'll work for you'.

More...

 

[jp4355]

That's nice that you can still talk with this Guy on occasion.

Unfortunately, all the Doctors and Trainers who Helped me in the Late 60's and 70's.

Are all Passed-on now.
Even my old Training Partner from back then, who was 16 years my senior is gone................ JP

 

[Nac]

Time to time I come across rumours Paul B, the Nutty Professor, helped Dorian Yates with his competitive era cycles.

I kinda like his basic philosophy. Not the literal extremes, but cycle short blasts. If using long esters, pre load. I personally start getting bored doing long 16+ week bulk-blasts.

 

[The-Kiwi]

Only issue with short blasts is how much can u add AND hold on to in such a short amount of time

 

[Mobster]

Only issue with short blasts is how much can u add AND hold on to in such a short amount of time

Exactly. He even, when in a lucid moment, said as much. To be fair it's true of any cycle. The majority of users gain and lose, gain and lose. It's those that keep it that succeed

 

[Nac]

Only issue with short blasts is how much can u add AND hold on to in such a short amount of time

Yeah, people will be arguing this til the end of time.

How much gainz can you get on a short cycle? So many variables. Im sure we can all agree some gainz will definitely be made (diet etc being equal).

So your big question, the more important one: how much of those gainz can you hold? Diet etc aside, your best bet is always going to be a cruise dose. PCTing, obviously more risky.

Youll lose wet gains either way, but thats innevitable whenever your estrogen drops back and/or your doses decrease.

End of the day, meh, I dont think theres really much difference (lots of short blasts vs longer blasts), like most things we prefer it comes down to psychological factors.

 

[The-Kiwi]

Yeah, people will be arguing this til the end of time.

How much gainz can you get on a short cycle? So many variables. Im sure we can all agree some gainz will definitely be made (diet etc being equal).

So your big question, the more important one: how much of those gainz can you hold? Diet etc aside, your best bet is always going to be a cruise dose. PCTing, obviously more risky.

Youll lose wet gains either way, but thats innevitable whenever your estrogen drops back and/or your doses decrease.

End of the day, meh, I dont think theres really much difference (lots of short blasts vs longer blasts), like most things we prefer it comes down to psychological factors.

Nah I don't agree with that.. Longer cycles and ya body has more chance of letting gains settle in rather than short gains and homeostasis kicks in and ya body wants to return to its original state.. Ya body will become accustomed to new weight, new size the longer it has it.. Easy come, easy go

 

[Nac]

Told you, we could argue the pros and cons of this forever.

Im wise enough to know that its pointless trying to convince someone of an "opposing" point of view, when clearly the approach they are happy with and believe in is working for them.

 

[The-Kiwi]

Told you, we could argue the pros and cons of this forever.

Im wise enough to know that its pointless trying to convince someone of an "opposing" point of view, when clearly the approach they are happy with and believe in is working for them.

Take into account I could be justifying for my ridiculously long cycles haha

 

[Mobster]

Nah I don't agree with that.. Longer cycles and ya body has more chance of letting gains settle in rather than short gains and homeostasis kicks in and ya body wants to return to its original state.. Ya body will become accustomed to new weight, new size the longer it has it.. Easy come, easy go

I agree with the argument of homeostasis but that's not a gear issue. The body, as you say, needs to get used to the change whether you're on or off. All too often guys cycle and are, if they are lucky, 'on point' with everything. But as soon as they come off they ease up far too much. Hence they loose if not all certainly most of their gains. They train and eat for what they were beforehand instead, for want of a phrase, what they became.

At my biggest I only stayed at that weight for 2 weeks and it was so uncomfortable at the time I dropped back asap. Other gains I kept took 2-3 months to get used to.

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Take into account I could be justifying for my ridiculously long cycles haha

Of course you are lol. As above psychological vs physiological

 

[Mobster]

A quick mention of the more well-known guru of late before I do some pinch grip work: Dave Crosland. Of the 3 Dave is by far the biggest. Mick was probably a very good 200lbs at his height when in condition. Paul got to a solid 260lbs (better on stage at 230 or so). Dave walks around now at 360+. Now there's a bunch of stuff I think Dave is daft on. The sheer volume of gear in his experimental phase (see his videos) was 5g+, lots of site injecting and him sick as fuck but over 400lbs. I asked him in an online thing and his best use vs gains etc was 2g a week. Beyond that he was just not good.

Dave is also of the age of the internet. Meaning he's had more of an impact than the other two fellas in less time due to it. He also does a LOT with the various governmental bodies by way of harm reduction and advice than Mick and Paul. Finally, he's actually qualified in a way they never were

 

[The-Kiwi]

I agree with the argument of homeostasis but that's not a gear issue. The body, as you say, needs to get used to the change whether you're on or off. All too often guys cycle and are, if they are lucky, 'on point' with everything. But as soon as they come off they ease up far too much. Hence they loose if not all certainly most of their gains. They train and eat for what they were beforehand instead, for want of a phrase, what they became.

At my biggest I only stayed at that weight for 2 weeks and it was so uncomfortable at the time I dropped back asap. Other gains I kept took 2-3 months to get used to.

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Of course you are lol. As above psychological vs physiological

I can tell u if I cycled and lost a majority of my gains most cycles, then I wouldn't cycle again.. I eat for my new size, new weight, dose my cruise amount accordingly.. I've never been 2 steps forward and 3 back

 

[Mobster]

I can tell u if I cycled and lost a majority of my gains most cycles, then I wouldn't cycle again.. I eat for my new size, new weight, dose my cruise amount accordingly.. I've never been 2 steps forward and 3 back

Most don't. Once you've been training over a year, never mind used gear, you're statistically abnormal as a gym goer. Most come and fuck about for a few months then move on. How many threads do we read which include the words 'trained on and off'??

 

[The-Kiwi]

Most don't. Once you've been training over a year, never mind used gear, you're statistically abnormal as a gym goer. Most come and fuck about for a few months then move on. How many threads do we read which include the words 'trained on and off'??

Good point!... Guess its the difference between a gym goer and a serious lifter

 

[stevesmi]

Most don't. Once you've been training over a year, never mind used gear, you're statistically abnormal as a gym goer. Most come and fuck about for a few months then move on. How many threads do we read which include the words 'trained on and off'??

Gym's are very cyclical. that is why they try and get you under contract. they know you will show up the first month and then never show up again

people are too lazy

 

[Mobster]

Gym's are very cyclical. that is why they try and get you under contract. they know you will show up the first month and then never show up again

people are too lazy

That used to be the case. The law here now allows them an out. But yeah if you could sign them for a year it was rare to see them after 3 months. Old regular members loved it (apart from when it was crowded with the wanna-bes) cos they knew that the gym owner might upgrade the kit with the spare cash

 

[Masonic Bodybuilder]

There is nothing quite like talking to the old school guys and listening to their real life experiences.

 

[Mobster]

More on Paul Borrseon. One idea he had and which I engaged in was triple drop 50 rep sets. Joined to what was called a 100 day war. I did the leg workout. So I start training the first 40 or so days. During this time, running Muscle Mob magazine, Paul very kindly sent me a bunch of meal replacement products (100 sachets I think). Anyway I took my annual two weeks leave during the middle part of the 'war'. I ended up doing a leg workout in an empty gym owned by the publisher of Muscle Express (short lived UK mag) who had also been in a George Micheal video.

Anyway this leg workout literally made me sore the same day - like 4 hours later.

 

[muskate]

There is nothing quite like talking to the old school guys and listening to their real life experiences.

I think a mix between new school and old school is best.

I agree that nothing can replace real world knowledge and experience but a lot of older guys have never even heard of things like SARMS.

A lot has changed in the world of performance enhancing drugs like last 10 years. Things like aromasin, SARMS etc.