Hadn't heard of a couple that y'all mentioned. I'll do some reading and definitely try something else. I been doing the normal fish oil, magnesium, zinc supplements for several years now. The hand pain and toe pain just got too bad, so I went ahead let them do the cortisone shots in both hands (thumb joints) and the big toes. Definitely an improvement. Also been trying tumeric and curcumin. I donly have a job that involves some labor from time to time, but to me it doesn't seem excessive. Just seems strange to be having arthritis at 45. But supposedly they said the MRI's confirmed it. Oh well. I'll definitely try the ones yall mentioned. Makes me wonder if test or tren could have something to do with it.