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I have come across posts about moon face/facial swelling while on steroids but none were comprehensive. Does anyone know from experience or science what it is, what causes it, and what cures it? I am currently on Test Enth 600mg/wk with arimidex 1 mg/day. Estrogen is in normal range. Do all steroids cause it or only certain classes?
So any swelling is usually tied to water retention, high blood pressure, high estrogen, even allergic reaction to carrier oil.
In general swollen face from a steroid cycle is going to be due to estrogen raging out of control. If estrogen is in normal range and still swelling then it could be a host of other issues.
Super User 4
New member
Normally it has to do with estrogen levels or water retention
estrogen conversion... thats why it is stressed to do PRE, MID and POST CYCLE bloowork so you can see how your body is responding.. .its also important that you always have an AI on hand and you understand how to properly use it...
I posted here yesterday but it was removed, I'm sure because it gave you different advise than the all knowing guy who runs this board. Why he only wants one opinion, his own, pushed makes 0 sense and curtails any type of discussion. I'm done with this nazi run board. I suggest you check out a good board with some very knowledgeable guys on it and that encourages different opinions and discussions that will more likely lead to getting the answer you need . Fitness Geared is very good, superior muscle excellent, Muscle Chemistry. There are plenty others. I started posting on this board because I've been around for years and it's always been the same as this here. If you now know this why you would continue to seek advise somewhere, that I can tell you the answer you'll get to every single question you ask already, I have no idea.
This guy is an egomaniac who is actually dangerous because he has no credentials or experience to give advise like it's gospel and he can never be wrong. He's dead wrong here and I know that for a fact.
Estrogen can cause water Retention but the thing that will cause the look you are talking about is a horrible, wrong diet.
And it is not absolutely necessary to use an AI. AI's were only made available around 1997 but I did not see them in competitive Bodybuilding until 1999. So, if you absolutely need an AI. Please explain Flex Wheeler in 1993. ,It was impossible to take an AI but I've never seen Flex anywhere, at a contest in the middle of his off-season bloated in any way. And I'm talking about when AI's did not exist and the only thing you could use was noveldex, which is great for blocking gyno but does nothing to affect you estrogen levels. Or Proviron which doesn't work nearly as well as noveldex.
I.myself, never use an AI and anyone I help prepare to compete never uses an AI. I'm NEVER bloated on any drug because I eat perfectly clean. The people I may work with, which is not a lot because this not my job it's just something I'll do to pay things forward I guess. I was helped, for free, when I knew nothing, by especially one top national level lightheavy weight at the time. The only person I ever paid was at the very end and that was Chad Nicholas and he charged me an absurd $300 for an entire year. He was training Ronnie Colman at the same time, you are most likely too young to know who I'm referencing.
This post will be here until Hitler sees it and takes it down and probably bans me. Good. Because I'm not coming back to this worthless place again. I don't need any advice and obviously I threaten Mr. Hitler.
This guy is an egomaniac who is actually dangerous because he has no credentials or experience to give advise like it's gospel and he can never be wrong. He's dead wrong here and I know that for a fact.
Estrogen can cause water Retention but the thing that will cause the look you are talking about is a horrible, wrong diet.
And it is not absolutely necessary to use an AI. AI's were only made available around 1997 but I did not see them in competitive Bodybuilding until 1999. So, if you absolutely need an AI. Please explain Flex Wheeler in 1993. ,It was impossible to take an AI but I've never seen Flex anywhere, at a contest in the middle of his off-season bloated in any way. And I'm talking about when AI's did not exist and the only thing you could use was noveldex, which is great for blocking gyno but does nothing to affect you estrogen levels. Or Proviron which doesn't work nearly as well as noveldex.
I.myself, never use an AI and anyone I help prepare to compete never uses an AI. I'm NEVER bloated on any drug because I eat perfectly clean. The people I may work with, which is not a lot because this not my job it's just something I'll do to pay things forward I guess. I was helped, for free, when I knew nothing, by especially one top national level lightheavy weight at the time. The only person I ever paid was at the very end and that was Chad Nicholas and he charged me an absurd $300 for an entire year. He was training Ronnie Colman at the same time, you are most likely too young to know who I'm referencing.
This post will be here until Hitler sees it and takes it down and probably bans me. Good. Because I'm not coming back to this worthless place again. I don't need any advice and obviously I threaten Mr. Hitler.
LOL. Talk about over reaction!
I dont know what the other post was.
Do you know explicitly what levels of test people were running? A lot of bodybuilders decades ago realized you dont need a gram+ of test to look good.
If you are running moderate doses you can get away with a low dose of AI. You state you havent used an AI and no bloat but have you run bloods mid cycle and looked at your estrogen levels? I honestly dont know if you answered that elsewhere but would be interesting to know.
Also you mention Ronnie Coleman...you do realize he has had massive gyno surgery correct? Guy legit had womens tits needed a bra. If he never used an AI thats pretty self explanatory.
Again bloat/gyno isnt the only symptom of high estrogen. Sure you man not have bloat but blood pressure and other side effects can result which can damage your body/organs long term.
To each his own though i dont personally care if people dont use an AI running test as long as they know what an AI does and what side effects you could have with no AI.
The butthurt is strong with this one
Not coming back but green circle next to name.....hmmmmm
I had no clue Hitler was still around these days.... Thanks for not helping me out at all though!!!
Genixcon
EVO V.I.P.
Dude I have ran a gram of test, for prolonged periods, during my early years with just nolva and no ai. Not one cycle but a few. The sides were horrible. So bloated you feel like your suffocating while you sleep. Crying at commercials. Blood pressure of a 50 year old man.
Even though gainz were massive, you still couldnt pay me to run a gram or 750 without a ai. Ancillaries have made cycling so much easier.
That being said, I do believe of a correlation between high estrogen and massive muscle growth.
Yea no you def dont want to crush estrogen. It does play a pivotal role in muscle growth. Its not a bad thing to have it at the high end of the normal range or a little above as long as it isnt causing other issues like you mentioned blood pressure, gyno, bloat, etc.
People always ask if they need an AI and I say yes because its better to have it in hand and be using it then vice versa. Its also why everyone should always get mid cycle bloods done to dial their AI in. People get so fired up over AIs and whether they are needed and state how they run 350-500mg test and they dont need an AI which either means they havent run bloods and assume their estrogen is in check or maybe their body isnt estrogen prone and thats great but thats just them everyone elses body is different.
In the end its just a general guideline that if you are going to run a wet aromatizing compound like test you should at least have an AI in hand even if you dont want to take it from day 1 in case you run into estrogen issues.
Genixcon
EVO V.I.P.
I never take a ai on day one lol. Especially with long esters. With a long ester I start at week 2. How can you preach 5 dosages to reach saturation and tell someone to use a ai from day one. With a long ester you'll already be crushing your e2.
Again that's your opinion which is fine. Start week 2, start week 5, ramp up from day 1, start never, its really up to you as long as you have blood tests that show that zero estrogen conversion is happening till week 2 then you would not need to start your AI from day 1.
We are splitting hairs here. Yes saturation with a longer ester is 4-5 weeks but the test is in your system from day 1 and starts converting to estrogen and I havent seen any empirical medical evidence or blood tests from individuals stating that estrogen conversion happens at the same rate as test saturation.
Again its just a general guideline like stated before. If you have run bloods each week from week 1-5 post them up showing that estrogen conversion isnt an issue until you get into week 2+. I dont have anything like that so to control aromitization i take my AI from day 1. Thats JMO. You can start whatever week you want if you dont feel its an issue.
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