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Wanted to ask if it's possible to use PEDs long term safely, with ancillary, blood work, DR review, coach? I'm planning on competing long term.
"Use" is a very broad spectrum brother. Sure i feel you could safely use test in a trt setting managaged by a physician long term. Cant you blast long term? Even under parameters set by reflecting bloodwork?... Inevitably if you deliberately put you body under strain over and over again, even if it only a little bit at a time, something eventually has to give. The level of impact isnt something that can be judged early as your body changes with age regardless, its response to ped use, ability to sustain itself, recover, repair not just muscle wise but organ funtion, neurological function everything changes with time.
Its also individual dependent, some people can smoke their whole life and some people die from its relative impact earlier on, it just cant be judged.
Its also individual dependent, some people can smoke their whole life and some people die from its relative impact earlier on, it just cant be judged.
Its fine brother to use longterm
Regular blood work
Healthy eating
Need your stata first
Bodyweight etc
Goals
Current fat percentage
Have had many run 250-500mgs safely test e for years And. 100-200 mgs tren e longterm but some. Can't tolerate its all individual
Before any advice can be given we need your current stats..
@Allupfromhere I don't think comparisons should be drawn with smoking as the example
AAS Is far better for you than any smoking
Also it won't kill you and destroy your lungs heart etc like smoking would.
Its tolerated well when you are using test aa ita identical to the test your own body produces.
You would be hard pressed to find any. Bio identical chemicals in a smoke that the body matches.....
Regular blood work
Healthy eating
Need your stata first
Bodyweight etc
Goals
Current fat percentage
Have had many run 250-500mgs safely test e for years And. 100-200 mgs tren e longterm but some. Can't tolerate its all individual
Before any advice can be given we need your current stats..
@Allupfromhere I don't think comparisons should be drawn with smoking as the example
AAS Is far better for you than any smoking
Also it won't kill you and destroy your lungs heart etc like smoking would.
Its tolerated well when you are using test aa ita identical to the test your own body produces.
You would be hard pressed to find any. Bio identical chemicals in a smoke that the body matches.....
Safely/with harm reduction? Yes. Depending on which compounds, dosages and your general lifestyle habits.
As a competitive bodybuilder? It depends. But it is not a healthy sport if you want to be competitive, and not merely participate.
Your individual genetics will determine alot too:
- Is your response to PED's good? Or do you need to use 2-3x higher doses than other guys?
- Will you suffer minimal or high side effects?
- Family history of cardiovascular disease, cardiac issues, organs etc.
As a competitive bodybuilder? It depends. But it is not a healthy sport if you want to be competitive, and not merely participate.
Your individual genetics will determine alot too:
- Is your response to PED's good? Or do you need to use 2-3x higher doses than other guys?
- Will you suffer minimal or high side effects?
- Family history of cardiovascular disease, cardiac issues, organs etc.
The reference was that it is individual dependent which you agreed with brother, smoking was just an example of something individually dependant.
@ODINLABS makes some extremely good points @Meiwtutsi1
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@Meiwtutsi1 welcome to the EVO family
your question is valid, I think anyone about to inject some steroids is asking that same question.If you’re smart about it and not blasting reckless doses then yes it can be done in a safe way. Regular blood work keeps you on track so you know if anything is out of range before it gets serious. Ancillaries and a good coach reviewing your labs make sure your organs and hormones stay in balance. A coach who understands PED use long term can adjust cycles so you’re not stressing the body too much. Plenty of guys have competed for years while keeping health markers solid because they treated it like a science not a gamble.
Now lets compare to alcohol! I was an alcoholic for years and the damage that booze did to my body was way worse than what steroid use ever could. Alcohol batters your liver every single day, wrecks your sleep, raises blood pressure, and destroys relationships. With steroids you’re talking about monitored doses, blood work, ancillaries, and medical oversight which keeps things in check. Alcohol has no safe long term dose, its poison, but PEDs can be managed like a medication.
The reality is you need community support to be healthy, so starting a LOG is going to be crucial if you want to use steroids or PEDs.
Perfectly articulated brother@Meiwtutsi1 welcome to the EVO family
If you’re smart about it and not blasting reckless doses then yes it can be done in a safe way. Regular blood work keeps you on track so you know if anything is out of range before it gets serious. Ancillaries and a good coach reviewing your labs make sure your organs and hormones stay in balance. A coach who understands PED use long term can adjust cycles so you’re not stressing the body too much. Plenty of guys have competed for years while keeping health markers solid because they treated it like a science not a gamble.
Now lets compare to alcohol! I was an alcoholic for years and the damage that booze did to my body was way worse than what steroid use ever could. Alcohol batters your liver every single day, wrecks your sleep, raises blood pressure, and destroys relationships. With steroids you’re talking about monitored doses, blood work, ancillaries, and medical oversight which keeps things in check. Alcohol has no safe long term dose, its poison, but PEDs can be managed like a medication.
The reality is you need community support to be healthy, so starting a LOG is going to be crucial if you want to use steroids or PEDs.
Use the safer use model, can't go wrong. In fact all the top finishers this year at the Mr O use the safer use model.
What does the safer use model entail?
There is always some level of risk with every medication. Playing with hormones ect can be pretty complicated so checking all the boxes is a necessity that a lot of people skip over.
Informed consent and harm reduction go a long way.
If you have a good gp that's understanding it'll go a long way in every aspect of health.
But a lot of this stuff is trial and error especially when it comes to competing athletes and such diverse genetics between everyone.
Results may vary
Informed consent and harm reduction go a long way.
If you have a good gp that's understanding it'll go a long way in every aspect of health.
But a lot of this stuff is trial and error especially when it comes to competing athletes and such diverse genetics between everyone.
Results may vary
It was created about 10 years ago by a bloke by the name Victor Black. His model for PEDs was rejected by many becuase he didnt have a pro card (typical bodybuilders mentality) His students however were many. John Jewetts was a student of Victor, J3U is the safer use model but for a premium price. Paul Barnets PED course is the safer use model as he also was taught by Victor. Same with Joe Jeffery. Derek MPMD was taught by Victor also and Victor help him tremendously. A few years ago our future classic Mr Olympia Mike Sommerfield went to Victor to learn from him in person. Samson current O uses the Safer use model. Point is, it's used by all top coaches and athletes and has proved itself over 10 years so no one can legitimately question its effectiveness. Also Victor introduced Telmisartan to the enhanced community. That's a big in itself. So what is the framework?
Testosterone base - as much as u can use without an AI or SERM. AIs and SERMs go in the bin and are only used for very select times if absolutely necessary. The extra esteogen profile provides protection of the heart, kidneys and brain and helps keep lipids under control. Estrogen is your friend. Androgens enlarge the heart estrogen helps prevent that.
Once you've reached your max testosterone dose without unbalancing the Androgen to Estrogen ratio, we now put in a growth promoter. Something that doesn't add anymore estrogen or DHT profile and is approved for human use in long term clinical settings. Options are Masteron, primobolan, nadrolone (nandrolone only converts to 15% of the rate to estrogen compared to testosterone) and anavar. Situational use drugs are Tren and Anadrol, superdrol (methylated masteron) We use these sparingly, not longterm and for select jobs.
Example of my client - he taps out at 350mg a week of testosterone split into 4 doses without an AI. He needs 1000mg total load to grow because that was his last growth mg amount was that. He prefers masteron and little bit of nandrolone for joint comfort. We move him to 500mg masteron and 150 nadrolone weekly for a 1000mg total load.
Next on the list is we use an ARB like telmisartan. Not for blood pressure but for controlling angiotensin II the effector molecule of the renin angiotensin aldosterone system. Increased androgens increase Angiotensin II levels This causes heart enlargement, LVH, water retention, blood pressure rises, strain on kidneys, increased oxidative stress. Telmisartan or any other ARB blocks angiotensin II. We take it regardless of blood pressure. Use is year round because we use it to block angiotensin II. Angiotensin II is the monster in the shadows no one sees or talks about. Next we use metformin as the next problems bodybuilders see is rises in blood sugar over the years and becoming pre diabetic or diabetic becuase of pounding food, taking androgens and rHGH. It fights that and provides lowering of oxidative stress. Both telmisartan and metformin will lower acne breakouts for this reason.
Next is rHGH. Very simple, use as much as you can afford. The problems we see from high doses is curbed by men only being able to afford 2-6IUs daily. The higher the dose, the bigger impact it'll have on blood sugars long-term. A replacement dose of 2IUs is fine as we get older just like trt is a good idea.
There's so much more but thats a sample of it. We also avoid using compounds that don't provide anymore benefits but have a higher risk profile. For example dbol is plausibly the most neuro toxic AAS yet it doesn't really build much more tissue than anything else. Scale weight is irrelevant. It also converts into methyl estrogen, something that we just don't want. EQ also doesn't build tissue any better than day masteron and is shown to be directly renal toxic. So why take it if it doesn't do anything more than we can get from a more benign compound like masteron or Primobolan?
Long winded, I know but thus is the PED model everyone at the top is using now. Or you can just do what we always did prior....throw any old androgen in there and hope for the best. Both work. One is safer one is higher risk, both produce the same result. Don't take my word for it, go look at the people I've just mentioned
Thanks for the detailed explanation brother all makes sense
This is great & should be pinned somewhere I feel
Thanks for sharing your knowledge mate makes alotta sense
Does inj. l-carnitine have a place here I'm learning about & i feel should become a staple that it's good for the heart when on ped's, kidneys and is potentially neuroprotective?
Thanks for providing these insights! Will definitely refer back when deciding on my next cycle
Podcast on the topic if you’ve downtime but there’s a good few online.
It's safer to have 4 beers and drive instead of having 8 beers then drive, doesn't mean it's safe to drink and drive.
Same principle with gear.
With that said, being on top of, and consistent with blood work, ancillaries and supplements makes things far safer in my experience but there always is a risk.
With an elite supplement and ancillaries stack you can reduce the damage between 70-90% generally.
Same principle with gear.
With that said, being on top of, and consistent with blood work, ancillaries and supplements makes things far safer in my experience but there always is a risk.
With an elite supplement and ancillaries stack you can reduce the damage between 70-90% generally.
Awesome! Thanks for the heads up. Entertainment for my next few cardio sessions sorted!
No worries. Once you wrap your head around the framework its amazing. Safer use education should really be free or very cheap and after about November this year it will be. $20 from what he told me. The only reason someone would employ a coach such as myself is to get there head around some of the more nuanced topics and how to build out a cycle for them as a genteticly unique individual. After that there is no need to hire a coach other than for adherence in prep or long diet. And even then it should be cheap which is why I've pulled my prices down to $100/Month. I highly recommend any enhanced man to do his course. If it was good enough for John jewett to base J3U on, for Paul Barnet to base his course on and for top athletes to use, then average dudes like us should be all over it like a fat kid on a cup cake.
Yes, Injectable version absolutely has a place in safer use and would be placed in the same category as metformin and rInsulin, that is fuel delivery and mitochondrial support.
For anyone who has any doubt on Victor's PED knowledge, here's a good testimony from Paul. Another one from John Jewett
It all sounds good and cool to explore this on a deeper level too..I guess we do want to push this as safe as possible and I see compound choice and education is really important too
Would you guys be interested if I did a long post about what I do for PED safety? and all the mainstream supplements and ancillaries I take or have taken, alongside interpreting bloodwork?
I'm not expert by any means, but maybe it could definitely help some of the newer gents. If it helps one person from destroying their bodies I think it's worth it.
Contributions would and are more than welcome too.
I'm not expert by any means, but maybe it could definitely help some of the newer gents. If it helps one person from destroying their bodies I think it's worth it.
Contributions would and are more than welcome too.
Brilliant idea. Am certainly keen to see this
Yeah that would be awesome!
Yeah throw it up brother always keen to learn from others experiences
Na you guys are all legends aye. So much support here. Yeah I'm trying my best to stay healthy while persuing my passion for bodybuilding. I have a family to that relies on me. Sometimes I feel bit selfish doing this, but after 8 years doing this natty and other extra years doing bodybuilding enhanced, id loose a part of my self if I gave it up.
