You need to wait way more than a few days, you have clearly something off with the bloods there.
My diet and sleep is optimal I am over 3k calories a day and sleep 8-9hrs a night, Im actually slightly gaining weight as my 8pac has faded into a 6pac, i take magnesium tablets, creatine, zinc, glow stack, and I drink about 600ml milk for calcium a day. Trainings consist of multiple 100m sprint 90-100% intensity, 2-4k runs, sled pushes, pliometrics (reisisted jumping), nordics to failure, change of direction sprints and a lot more conditioning variations. Coach overloads the fck out of us the idiot as we train 5nights a weeks and one morning so 6x a week, but yea as for my bloods they are synthetically increased by like 3-4x due to being on tamoxifen (I never knew tamoxifen could do that until i did research lately).
@LevButlerov He said he has been taking Nolvadex for gyno.
Nolvadex wouldn't boost his test like that @waggat
Not trying argue or prove wrong just asking if you could please revisit that thought as my study shows that it is almost 100% the reason for the increase
It is possible you got the testosterone boost from tamoxifen, sureNot trying argue or prove wrong just asking if you could please revisit that thought as my study shows that it is almost 100% the reason for the increase
@jjjjii7 but if this is the case, why do we need to get you on cycle? your test is high already, then the solution would be to have you cycle in and out of nolvadex, not use steroids, you follow the logic? 
The tamoxifen can lead to increased LH and FSH (which your LH is) hence natural increase in your T levels as well as estrogen via negative feedback loop; the body is smart and tries to fight what you're doing with tamoxifen, and your CK values are concerning.
Yeah I don’t blame you that was my initial thought but then I researched that too, firstly tamoxifen stops working the longer I use, if I were to cycle it then after 1-2 cycles i would get pituitary desitisation causing blunted LH, decrease boost in test, harder e2 rebound, tamoxifen is also not anabolic, it doesn’t activate androgen receptors does not increase satellite recruitment, does not improve tendon collagen turnover, does not increase muscle contractile protein and does not enhance neural drive, but, test does all of these. additionally long term tamoxifen increases clot risk, worse lipid profile, tamoxifen is a short term drug used for gyno, PCT, fertility and breast cancer not used for recovery even tho I got that big test increase it would be unwise to use that in replacement of testIt is possible you got the testosterone boost from tamoxifen, sure
MY CK values are normal for an athelte (correct me of im wrong) but if you get CK done on majority of athletes who train hard most days it will be high
Or are overtraining to a fault.
Here’s a thought. You claim low natty test and I believe I saw a test you posted in the 600’s(which is nowhere near low) and now your test is elevated yet you still have the same issues don’t you think that your issues are something other than low test?
not disagree on overtraining that’s 100% true but im saying I need to keep overtraining as coach making us it may be club sport but they are paying me under table so i have commitment and pressure
You are not anywhere near low test. If you took time of training your test levels will improve. If you are fine overtraining then have at it. You’re just gonna keep digging a bigger hole for yourself.
Nah man not arguing sorry if it came a cross that way just was discussing , ur a legend for the advice
yo also for reference these test levels were done both when i was overtraining and also when o was injured and had taken 3months off all sport and resting
additionally lots of vids and investigation in research has shown increase test from serms and nolvadex is not anabolic and does not cause muscle or better recovery (if im wrong please correct me) which is why recovery has not increased form increase T from nolvadex
ahaha sorry I didn’t notice u said i need to wait more than a few days, I said “will wait a few days thanks” as i though u said i need to wait a few days
I read it wrong
Listen Bro. I have yet to see one bit of training or diet here. I'm not gonna keep going back and forth with you on drugs. You are fine, you have overtraining syndrome and that's it. No need for drugs and since we have 0 idea on your training and diet there is nothing left here. Good luck to you.
Can we agree to wait 4 weeks please? @jjjjii7ahaha sorry I didn’t notice u said i need to wait more than a few days, I said “will wait a few days thanks” as i though u said i need to wait a few days
yo I have said multiple times my exact diet and training mayb you missed it? happy to repeat it for u
Im on 1 scoop of 5mg mixed into water but havnt been in it for long and pre inconsistent, is creatine important? if so i’ll take it more consistently
i’ll just re write it, training sport; club team coach gets us training 6x a week consisting of sprints, jumping (pliometrics), change of direction, sled pushes, 2-4 k runs ect. basically he crushing us now it’s pre season thinking we will be machines when the season starts, these sessions are non negotiable i get cash to play for the team so defying coach will just ruin stuff. As for individual training i stretch morning and night and go gym now only 3x a week as noticed my cortisol was high in the past from gym too much, gym consists of leg day, push day and pull day. For my diet i hit 3k calories or more a day, it consisted of 4-5 meals a day normally 4, which includes eggs, steak, mince, bread, pasta (carbs pre training), vegetables, milk and probably more stuff I fgot about, hopefully this helps get an idea if im messing stuff up but my issue is coach pushing us, and i wanna be able to keep training but always sore (ik it’s over training)
This is not diet and training. This is an overview of what you are doing. Click on any of the links in my signature to see how to log your diet and training. It takes 5 minor less a day.
5 grams sorry
Hey guys, after letting my estrogen stabilize, I’ve started my cycle today and want to outline my plan to make sure I’m running everything as safely as possible. I’m prone to gyno (had issues previously on HGH), and I also want to maintain my fertility throughout the cycle. Here’s what I’m doing:
how did you wait for it to stabilize? the e2 you measure? @jjjjii7
You need to be doing 20 grams of creatine first not testosterone.
woahh i never noticed that much, ok will start having that much now
i waited a bit over a week for my e2 and test to stabilise and by then i was off tamoxifen for 2 weeks, tamoxifen was altering hormones as discussed before but then i noticed that i’ll be on tamoxifen while on cycle so there was no need to hop off it and wait as i need tamoxifen for gyno prevention as i am hypersensitive. I pinned yesterday as was gonna pin again today may you please review if my cycle is safe? i know im stupid and irresponsible for pinning but now i’ve chosen to do so to help my bodies recovery and performance, would you guys please be willing to help me do it in a safe way? I will now be starting 20grams of creatine a day too.
additionally when i pin i do either in the glute or side delt but around 6hrs post injection the area felt slight pain I researched and appranty that’s normal and to help it I should be warming up the testp first and having a shower after pinning?
let me ask you, why dont you stay on tamoxifen? its boosting test natty already @jjjjii7
lets talk about tamox first and we can move into this after
sure bro here’s my reasoning I wrote this down before maybe you missed it so i’ll just copy and paste it for you
You are overcomplicating tamoxifen and underestimating how big a decision it is to shut your own test off and run essentially TRT at your age, because a SERM run that restores your HPTA is still far less of a commitment than life on injections. Pituitary desensitisation and e2 rebound depend a lot on dose, duration and how you taper, while TRT guarantees near 0 LH and FSH with fertility issues and constant management of hematocrit, lipids and e2 for decades. @jjjjii7sure bro here’s my reasoning I wrote this down before maybe you missed it so i’ll just copy and paste it for you
Yeah I don’t blame you that was my initial thought but then I researched that too, firstly tamoxifen stops working the longer I use, if I were to cycle it then after 1-2 cycles i would get pituitary desitisation causing blunted LH, decrease boost in test, harder e2 rebound, tamoxifen is also not anabolic, it doesn’t activate androgen receptors does not increase satellite recruitment, does not improve tendon collagen turnover, does not increase muscle contractile protein and does not enhance neural drive, but, test does all of these. additionally long term tamoxifen increases clot risk, worse lipid profile, tamoxifen is a short term drug used for gyno, PCT, fertility and breast cancer not used for recovery even tho I got that big test increase it would be unwise to use that in replacement of test
yeah you raise a valid point, the issue is why do so many athletes at my age take test? even a tiktoker called clavicular not sure if you have see him spreads that every guy should be on 200mg test (he is 19) and they can still have kids if they run hcg and hmg along side it. It feels hard being natural when I keep seeng people my age on test, instead of running it blindly I was hoping you guys who are a lot more experienced then me could point out if i’ve made any big mistakes in the cycle.
would a 12 week cycle on test, hcg and hmg really be this harmful where i cook my body for life?I thought after i stop pinning, my body will naturally regain it’s natural level over a few months
yo btw I never mentioned this but when i got my test checked with a doctor officially like a year ago the doctor said I should to on trt but I said no as don’t want that stuff on my government health record, kinda also why i’ve been getting stuff on the grey market instead of through a doctor
I saw a bit on natural test boosters like enclo but that stuff decreases igf a fair bit so i was tryna stay clear
incorrect it doesn't decrease IGF and even if that's the case you can add IGF ed pins
you are saying you have test levels where trt is required? did I miss those? @jjjjii7
I think anything is possible but can we test other options first please
I think you can of course but is it smart? I'm not sure if we have other options
yeah bro i’ll show u my blood tests from the doctor it was like only just above the cuttoff, my test only was high in the last one due to me hyperesponding to tamoxifen, but tbh bro i’ve got test p on me and started pinning I would personally like to continue this cycle, do you know any hmg sources as i really wanna try my best to stay fertile there’s like only a .1% chance of infertility right?
bloods r 100% low naturally and no it’s not smart me going on test probably wasn’t smart me going on hgh previously either but oh well
go ahead post it please @jjjjii7
I'm waiting for bloods firstbloods r 100% low naturally and no it’s not smart me going on test probably wasn’t smart me going on hgh previously either but oh well
hey bro got a appointment with doctor coming up will ask for then there as there are government done bloods so bit harder to get my hands on, but don’t worry have not forgottenI'm waiting for bloods first
I think you'll be doing what you planned it seems
yeah bro been pinning trying to do everything safely and controlled but i’ll still get the low test bloods for u as you would like to see them
waiting for the bloods where are they? @jjjjii7
This is not a fact, there are gynecomastia solutions which aren't related to surgery @Nasser1997o2 albeit they are hard.
I disagree.
Early gyno that is still tender and growing can shrink with a SERM, and it often stays smaller if you also fix what drove e2 up instead of going right back to the same cycle situation.
" Kids who graduate high school are 17, and 18 maximum!
ok time to address everything here I guess:@jjjjii7 Some members have reached out concerned about you being underage and potentially going to harm yourself with your usage at your age (which is in question).
I believe you are underage and I also can't in good conscious otherwise supervise your log based on the minute details you're providing regarding compound choice and dosing including your sole desire to discuss drugs only with no diet, training or supplement info or answering any questions regarding this. Also, you have not definitely stated your age and only give us a range of ages.
Here is a VERY brief summary of your activity on EVO since you joined that was sent to some of our Mods:
(This is in no way meant to shame you or berate you but I'm pointing out the advice you were given here and that you leave and then come back having not followed safety advice and all while I believe being underage).
I realize his age and advise against it:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/#post-1899450
He admits he is pretty much 18 (his words were "18/19" yrs old) and is following social media advice and wants to be like his friends:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/#post-1899639
I tell him not to listen to Tik Tok:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/#post-1899659
I point out he is a teenager and not understanding PCT at all:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/#post-1899743
@LevButlerov calls him out for being "19" and that he should not do a cycle and get bloodwork too:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/#post-1899906
Thinks using TestP will provide an "instant effect" to his physique and recovery:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/#post-1899906
@s.gentz points out no one on EVO is going to support him doing a cycle:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/#post-1899906
S.Gentz says no one will help him (and I agree - that's not what we do here on EVO)
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/#post-1899906
He is VERY hesitant to say his age and gives a new age range for himself "nah bro I just graduated from school im a young adult 18-20
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/#post-1900969
High CK of the heart and high e2 levels:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/#post-1901749
Lev says do NOT (in capitals) start using Test:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/#post-1901776
I believe he is running Test and trying to blame it on Nolvadex, Lev points this out:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/page-2#post-1902408
Insists his Test levels are low but posts his past 'baseline' levels that show it's perfectly in range:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/page-2#post-1902448
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/page-2#post-1902520
I point out his CK being so high is likely rhabdo and S.Gentz agrees:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/page-2#post-1902476
Gives a snark reply to S.Gentz about not posting anything about diet or training and only wanting to talk about drugs:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/page-2#post-1903019
Lev points out to do 20g creatine and not steroids:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/page-2#post-1914644
Wonders why it hurts after he pins Test:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/page-2#post-1914775
Wants to take Test like other athletes and other 18 year olds who take it and seem to "have a happy life":
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/page-2#post-1915200
Instead of a 4-week cycle of Test (after being told not to) now wants to do a 12-week cycle and is currently pinning Test:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-hgh-cycle-journal.107489/page-2#post-1915219
In a new thread off log asking about Enclo and Raloxifene while running Test:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/eplerenone-and-raloxifene.108326/#post-1926936
In a new thread off log he's now running Test and worried about seeing his hair thinning after only weeks of use and wants to source finasteride:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/hair-loss-on-test-and-source-please.108201/#post-1918077
Has not posted anything regarding his bloodwork while on cycle but has plenty of bloodwork when he claims his Test levels are low
Blaming tamoxifen, and no you don't have a "low ish baseline". I'm going directly based on what you yourself typed aboveInclude all this kind of detail in your log without creating new threads, it's not just about pics of meal.
Ok good, let's see
Help us help you. We do want to understand but the information is all over the place including your age which you still haven't definitively stated for us yet.
Age 19, there
Everything you just wrote in your response is what goes into a log, and more, and served to clarify things a tiny bit.
You're getting a lot of pushback on here because you're so young and not listening to safety advice. Here are some other quotes from your log (not including your other threads):
Include all this kind of detail in your log without creating new threads, it's not just about pics of meal.
Ok good, let's see
@LevButlerov has advised you not to run Test as have I and many others.
Help us help you. We do want to understand but the information is all over the place including your age which you still haven't definitively stated for us yet.
@LevButlerov Check DM's.
as for overtraining i actually took 1 week of sport and it helped a lot.
Everything you just wrote in your response is what goes into a log, and more, and served to clarify things a tiny bit.
You're getting a lot of pushback on here because you're so young and not listening to safety advice. Here are some other quotes from your log (not including your other threads):
Include all this kind of detail in your log without creating new threads, it's not just about pics of meal.
Ok good, let's see
@LevButlerov has advised you not to run Test as have I and many others.
Help us help you. We do want to understand but the information is all over the place including your age which you still haven't definitively stated for us yet.
"10. I understand i was highly advised not to take test i have followed all advice on how to do so safely but unfortunately did still start test i havnt blatantly ignored anyone for safety I have been honest about what im taking and why i am talk my it, as you guys are very experienced, i’ll grab some blood today as i feel like my e2 has to be high as nipple still sensitive which is annoying"
You were highly advised not to take test yes. I don't see anyone advising you that running test is safe for you. I'm appreciative of your honesty but the vast majority of the advice on here was not to run test. Since you are anyway we now need a lot more effort into your log and do want to help you stay safe as much as possible.
What is your exact and current daily, weekly cycle at this precise moment? Never mind bloods, what are you injecting now including HCG dose, any AI's you have on hand, etc.
Again, what you're injecting will not trump the overtraining schedule you currently maintain.
@LevButlerov Check DM's.
)
And how did you come up with this cycle? Which member here gave you this cycle to run, keeping your safety in mind? Can you quote the thread or screenshot a DM with this advice?my exact current cycle
35mg test p daily (245 a week)
.25 mg anastosole one day on 2 days off
150iu hcg eod
20mg nolvadex a night (gyno refuses to go away
no member gave me this cycle as most people said just don’t take test too young, one guy advised higher dose I think it was 300mg a week but i prefer not to dose that high. I got this cycle
And how did you come up with this cycle? Which member here gave you this cycle to run, keeping your safety in mind? Can you quote the thread or screenshot a DM with this advice?
If chatgpt and few bodybuilders is where you want to get your info that is totally fine and your prerogative.
I would first ask the reasoning for it? I would rly like to keep my balls alive on hcg can’t the sides of hcg be easily combated if i were to just figure out my e2 with bloods while on hcg and then take ai.
Also, I'd like to know what your plans for PCT are as it's #1 in my list of things to know before steroids, preceded by diet and training.
my plan for pct is to run hcg and hmg after my 12 weeks cycle and then add tamoxifen which i am funny enough alrdy on due to gyno, add tamoxifen to Restart hypothalamus → pituitary → testes
HCG won't prevent you from shutting down your HPTA all it will do is increase your estrogen while mimicking LH in your testes. If used at all it's for PCT.
We can take a look at that then in 12 weeks I'm glad you looked into PCT. Just know the HCG on cycle won't save you from needing PCT or from shutting down.
You would have shut down parts of your natural growth at that point, you realize this? @jjjjii7
yes unfortunately
is there anyways to avoid that, i even experienced this with my igf that ended up being 30% lower then my baseline when i hopped off hgh
for hcg on cycle i was told this:
okay blood test is being done today i will be doing total and free test, e2 and prolactin
but the bloods is AFTER you already injected some testosterone? @jjjjii7
yes i’ve injected now and doing blood in 30 mins
your bloods wont be clear since you are on gear already
im confused insnt the bloods getting done today to see my test and e2 levels to understand if i should be decreasing my test dose and increasing or decreasing ai?
A baseline bloods could have helped us determine how much you needed for a small TRT+
ok sounds good will get bloods in the future im going to post everything i ate today, i used chat gpt to help me with calories and protein
I'm saying bloods now will do nothing, you're on cycle, what's the point? we need to get you off cycle
I thought that's exactly what I said too LOL. Post the bloods up anyway @jjjjii7 if you got them today. Otherwise you'll have to wait and get bloods for e2 markers with this cycle you're now running, but we've missed the window for your baseline now.
He can get bloods now but I'm not sure what we'll learn besides e2.
Exactly yes. That's all it would be for.
hey bro getting bloods today mid cycle
you should get them asap
And there he is! Now don't forget that e2 LOL.
for your age bloods not bad but you really should cut the ralox out why you still on it ? @jjjjii7Hi guys here is my bloods i got yesterday, I tested when fasted and 24hr after my last injection, I am really happy with them I can’t see any red flags and my e2 looks like it’s being well managed.
current dose:
35mg test p a day
.5mg aromosin 1 day on 2 day off
250iu hcg 3x a week
raloxifin 60 mg every night (gyno)
bpc and tb500 for injuries
diet:
i will do another day of full eating today including my exact calories and macros will post at end of today, diet is high meat and my sugars only come from fruits
Training:
4x a week, i changed coach/teams and my training has been reduced to monday wednesday thursday and saturday
my body is coping much better i am also lifting heavy at gym for legs 2x a week and upper body 2x a week, i am thinking of stopping all upper body gym as i don’t want my upper body to get to big as my focus is sport perdormence and injury prevention so mayb I try to reduce unneeded upper body muscle and keep building lower limb muscle?
I think this cycle is going well and hope i havnt missed anything critical, cheers guys
My gyno is not going away :/
Bloods look great.Hi guys here is my bloods i got yesterday, I tested when fasted and 24hr after my last injection, I am really happy with them I can’t see any red flags and my e2 looks like it’s being well managed.
current dose:
35mg test p a day
.5mg aromosin 1 day on 2 day off
250iu hcg 3x a week
raloxifin 60 mg every night (gyno)
bpc and tb500 for injuries
diet:
i will do another day of full eating today including my exact calories and macros will post at end of today, diet is high meat and my sugars only come from fruits
Training:
4x a week, i changed coach/teams and my training has been reduced to monday wednesday thursday and saturday
my body is coping much better i am also lifting heavy at gym for legs 2x a week and upper body 2x a week, i am thinking of stopping all upper body gym as i don’t want my upper body to get to big as my focus is sport perdormence and injury prevention so mayb I try to reduce unneeded upper body muscle and keep building lower limb muscle?
I think this cycle is going well and hope i havnt missed anything critical, cheers guys
i was on 40mg split day nolva for like 10 weeks and did nothing for my gyno, was this dose high enough? i’ll read your log now, what do you mean by it kicked your ass?
Bro my 2025 is looooong. You'd have to go to search, then select "this thread" and type in Tamox or Nolvadex or Tamoxifen.
throw up some pics please @jjjjii7
If there was no reduction in the gyno after 10 weeks at 40mg sorry to say brother but its there until surgery.
Yup I learned this the hard way too and had to bail. @jjjjii7 I agree with @LevButlerov there's no judgement here put some pics up of the gyno and let's take a look.
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