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Approved Log Testosterone Cypionate, Dbol, Anavar, Proviron Cycle Log

ProTools

ProTools

V.I.P.
EVO Logger
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
 
ProTools said:
Is there an EDIT function. I forgot to add some things.

SUPPORT:

- TUDCA for liver function
- Milk Thistle For Liver support
- Fish Oil
- Taurine
Click to expand...
Yes, but it expires after several minutes
 
ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...
Welcome now fully to the EVO family :D thank you for sharing this @ProTools
Please share a picture of you face blurred so we can see your base and I can approve the log :D
 
ProTools said:
Just an update. I may not be able to start on Oct 1. Product will not be here by then. It's looking closer to Oct 14th based on an email from supplier. I do have Test Cyp on hand, and I may decide to start that on Oct 1. The only concern for me is not getting the product in that includes Ai and PCT.
Click to expand...
Hey Bro welcome to the EVO fam!

Looking forward to seeing those pics. You sound like a really fit healthy guy for 54 years old.

No rush to start your cycle. No pressure for us for sure. Make sure you have all the pieces in place first. We don't half ass anything in life right.
 
ProTools said:
Just an update. I may not be able to start on Oct 1. Product will not be here by then. It's looking closer to Oct 14th based on an email from supplier. I do have Test Cyp on hand, and I may decide to start that on Oct 1. The only concern for me is not getting the product in that includes Ai and PCT.
Click to expand...
Date doesn’t matter, what people actually want to see is your progress so throw up some pics with your face blurred and keep logging training and diet. That shows way more than when you pin the first shot, the consistency and updates are what make the log deliver long term results. @ProTools
 
LevButlerov said:
Date doesn’t matter, what people actually want to see is your progress so throw up some pics with your face blurred and keep logging training and diet. That shows way more than when you pin the first shot, the consistency and updates are what make the log deliver long term results. @ProTools
Click to expand...
So add here photo here in the log?
 
How's this
 

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ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...
And away we go your log is up! Following!

I love how much thought you've put into this. Based on your goals you can keep the dbol in. I'd up the protein a bit but that's just me. And I love the BPC with GHK combo you won't regret that trust me. Be sure and run it long enough, most don't. Inquire here for dosing if you're not already squared away on that.

You seem in great shape to start your cycle. I'm assuming you're still hitting the gym now?

I'd get a before bloodwork for us to look at. I can post my requisition if you need guidance and what to get checked out. Having a before panel and after will help you decide what you can do next time. Not many of us have a true baseline after having been off everything for as long as you have.
 
HarleyGuy said:
And away we go your log is up! Following!

I love how much thought you've put into this. Based on your goals you can keep the dbol in. I'd up the protein a bit but that's just me. And I love the BPC with GHK combo you won't regret that trust me. Be sure and run it long enough, most don't. Inquire here for dosing if you're not already squared away on that.

You seem in great shape to start your cycle. I'm assuming you're still hitting the gym now?

I'd get a before bloodwork for us to look at. I can post my requisition if you need guidance and what to get checked out. Having a before panel and after will help you decide what you can do next time. Not many of us have a true baseline after having been off everything for as long as you have.
Click to expand...
Update:
- I have ordered TBOL and DBOL. I will shelve the DBOL unless the TBOL is not producing what I want.
- As suggested I will up the protein.
- I have ordered KLOW Blend: GHK-Cu 50mg, TB-500 10mg, and BPC-157 10mg) and KPV 10mg. What dosage do you recommend?
- I have taken a week off to rest my body (mainly shoulders).
- I am looking into blood work.
 
ProTools said:
Update:
- I have ordered TBOL and DBOL. I will shelve the DBOL unless the TBOL is not producing what I want.
- As suggested I will up the protein.
- I have ordered KLOW Blend: GHK-Cu 50mg, TB-500 10mg, and BPC-157 10mg) and KPV 10mg. What dosage do you recommend?
- I have taken a week off to rest my body (mainly shoulders).
- I am looking into blood work.
Click to expand...
Great start to the log bro.

@HarleyGuy can help you out with the GLOW dosing. Personally I'm not a fan of that blend because I prefer to control the ratios myself.

When you say you're dropping the dbol in lieu of the tbol what the new plan? Those are 2 very different compounds so it sounds like maybe your goals have changed?
 
BeMe said:
Great start to the log bro.

@HarleyGuy can help you out with the GLOW dosing. Personally I'm not a fan of that blend because I prefer to control the ratios myself.

When you say you're dropping the dbol in lieu of the tbol what the new plan? Those are 2 very different compounds so it sounds like maybe your goals have changed?
Click to expand...

Same goals. My understanding is that TBOL is a stripped down version of DBOL. No water weight. I will use DBOL if the TBOL doesn't produce.
 
BeMe said:
Great start to the log bro.

@HarleyGuy can help you out with the GLOW dosing. Personally I'm not a fan of that blend because I prefer to control the ratios myself.

When you say you're dropping the dbol in lieu of the tbol what the new plan? Those are 2 very different compounds so it sounds like maybe your goals have changed?
Click to expand...
Ya for sure @BeMe I'm on this.

@ProTools KLOW is the next generation GLOW.


For KLOW I'm assuming it's an 80mg vial. (80mg total per vial - GHK 50mg/TB 10mg/BPC 10mg/KPV 10mg)

  • So put 2ml bac water in it.
  • You'll want to dose at (a minimum of) 1.25mg GHK/250mcg TB/250mcg BPC/250mcg KPV twice daily
  • Draw a 1ml insulin to only 5iu of KLOW for this dose and pin yourself into your shoulders as close to the injury as you can but still subQ
  • Do this twice a day, I do morning and night.
  • You can do one shoulder twice a day or both shoulders once a day
  • **This is only if you can afford it** If cost isn't an issue I would do both shoulders twice a day and again **This is only if you can afford it** at double the above dose (10iu in both shoulders twice a day) but if you run it long enough the 1.25mg GHK/250mcg TB/250mcg BPC/250mcg KPV dose twice daily in one shoulder or once daily in both shoulders will really work well. It all depends on how bad the injury is. I tore my tendons and ran 1.25mg GHK/250mcg TB/250mcg BPC/250mcg KPV twice daily for a long time and it healed up.

You'll wanna order a few more vials of KLOW as the magic with this stuff starts to happen around week 8-10 minimum.
 
ProTools said:
Update:
- I have ordered TBOL and DBOL. I will shelve the DBOL unless the TBOL is not producing what I want.
- As suggested I will up the protein.
- I have ordered KLOW Blend: GHK-Cu 50mg, TB-500 10mg, and BPC-157 10mg) and KPV 10mg. What dosage do you recommend?
- I have taken a week off to rest my body (mainly shoulders).
- I am looking into blood work.
Click to expand...
- With the low dose of dbol you were going to run you really can start with dbol and then switch to tbol since your goals are weight gain and muscle gain with strength
- Yes up the protein and protein calories to see some clean mass go on if your workouts are as close to failure as you can handle
- KLOW: see above, good choice
- Tell us more about the shoulder injuries. Both shoulders? Rotator cuff? SLAP tear? Or just wear and tear from overhead movements over the years?
- Get bloodwork 100%. Don't let your doc only run the checkboxes either (like lipids, CBC, cholesterol etc etc). Ask on here what to get and we'll make sure we see where you're at before starting.
 
ProTools said:
Same goals. My understanding is that TBOL is a stripped down version of DBOL. No water weight. I will use DBOL if the TBOL doesn't produce.
Click to expand...
Sounds good. I'm interested to see how it goes. Don't see many guys running Tbol. Most guys say it's really weak and doesn't do much so its not very popular. Some guys also say the same thing about Primo, but I love Primo, so I say go for it. It will be interesting to see what kind of results you get from it.
 
BeMe said:
Sounds good. I'm interested to see how it goes. Don't see many guys running Tbol. Most guys say it's really weak and doesn't do much so its not very popular. Some guys also say the same thing about Primo, but I love Primo, so I say go for it. It will be interesting to see what kind of results you get from it.
Click to expand...
You know what's funny too is everywhere on YouTube they make fun of proviron for it being useless and yet it's touted on here as almost a MUST with every cycle. I'm with EVO on proviron for the simple fact that it binds to the SHBG and frees up more free test even if it in itself it isn't really anabolic but it helps your other compounds do their job.
 
HarleyGuy said:
You know what's funny too is everywhere on YouTube they make fun of proviron for it being useless and yet it's touted on here as almost a MUST with every cycle. I'm with EVO on proviron for the simple fact that it binds to the SHBG and frees up more free test even if it in itself it isn't really anabolic but it helps your other compounds do their job.
Click to expand...
I think the YouTube guys are bashing it as a steroid cuz there are claims that Proviron will get you lean and hard like Mast or something. I searched it on ChatGPT back when I was first suggested it and that's what ChatGPT said it would do lol. People are probably pissed cuz they thought it was gonna do that for them and they didn't get any gains from it.

It's a great ancillary but it's not a real PED. If you think about it that way it's friggin awesome.

I was recommended it by @stevesmi because I was running NPP and it would prevent deca dick. Doesn't get any better than that right lol
 
BeMe said:
I think the YouTube guys are bashing it as a steroid cuz there are claims that Proviron will get you lean and hard like Mast or something. I searched it on ChatGPT back when I was first suggested it and that's what ChatGPT said it would do lol. People are probably pissed cuz they thought it was gonna do that for them and they didn't get any gains from it.

It's a great ancillary but it's not a real PED. If you think about it that way it's friggin awesome.

I was recommended it by @stevesmi because I was running NPP and it would prevent deca dick. Doesn't get any better than that right lol
Click to expand...
Omg I never thought of that! I have a bit of deca dick right now and that woulda been great info 16 weeks ago bahahaha.

I don't see why we can't run proviron at 25mg/day with 150mg TRT just to help it do it's job. It's an all year round kinda thing.
 
HarleyGuy said:
Omg I never thought of that! I have a bit of deca dick right now and that woulda been great info 16 weeks ago bahahaha.

I don't see why we can't run proviron at 25mg/day with 150mg TRT just to help it do it's job. It's an all year round kinda thing.
Click to expand...
I thought about that too. I've been running is post cycle but apparently it can mess up the test:e2 ratio. I kept it in to avoid deca dick while the NPP works outta my system.

I think the proviron might be the cause of the low estrogen symptoms I've been having lately. I'm sure there's a solve for that to keep running the Proviron but I just dropped it and waiting to see if my hormonal balance improves.
 
HarleyGuy said:
Omg I never thought of that! I have a bit of deca dick right now and that woulda been great info 16 weeks ago bahahaha.

I don't see why we can't run proviron at 25mg/day with 150mg TRT just to help it do it's job. It's an all year round kinda thing.
Click to expand...
This is exactly why it was in my last cycle and this cycle.

I never had an issue. Rock hard Blue Vein throbber!
 
ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...

ProTools said:
Is there an EDIT function. I forgot to add some things.

SUPPORT:

- TUDCA for liver function
- Milk Thistle For Liver support
- Fish Oil
- Taurine
Click to expand...

ProTools said:
How's this
Click to expand...

ProTools said:
Update:
- I have ordered TBOL and DBOL. I will shelve the DBOL unless the TBOL is not producing what I want.
- As suggested I will up the protein.
- I have ordered KLOW Blend: GHK-Cu 50mg, TB-500 10mg, and BPC-157 10mg) and KPV 10mg. What dosage do you recommend?
- I have taken a week off to rest my body (mainly shoulders).
- I am looking into blood work.
Click to expand...
now fully welcome to the EVO family :D @ProTools thanks for the pic, you look good, strong base, and you look lean.
You’ve leaned down well and holding good health markers at 54 is a solid place to start from.
Test with proviron and var makes sense, adding tbol over dbol will keep things drier and easier to manage so that’s a smart move.

With your calories, I’d push protein higher than 200g since you want to climb into the 180-190lb range lean, carbs at that level will fuel legs which you’re prioritising.
The blend you ordered looks good, a conservative dosing approach is best, split it up through the week so you can assess how shoulders respond without overdoing it.

Bloodwork before, during, and after will keep you covered. I would start with bloods if you can asap, you're in what country? CA?

supplements
what digestive supps you use?
digestive enzymes?
multis?
probiotics?
psyllium husk?

are you listening to our podcast? if not, you should:
https://www.evolutionary.org/podcasts/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/evolutionary-bodybuilding-radio/id1798623410
https://open.spotify.com/show/53q1RFTgG4h6TQHsJ4xY6Z
 
BeMe said:
Hey Bro welcome to the EVO fam!

Looking forward to seeing those pics. You sound like a really fit healthy guy for 54 years old.

No rush to start your cycle. No pressure for us for sure. Make sure you have all the pieces in place first. We don't half ass anything in life right.
Click to expand...
This. Looking forward to the pics
 
ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...
@ProTools this is a great update. so much info on this. the cycle layout going into the new years looks good!
 
ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...
bro athrititis no good. lay off the fapping for a few days. delts will feel better @ProTools
 
ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...
This will be a fun log going into next year. @ProTools simple cycle and mild. i like it. low dosing as well
 
LevButlerov said:
now fully welcome to the EVO family :D @ProTools thanks for the pic, you look good, strong base, and you look lean.
You’ve leaned down well and holding good health markers at 54 is a solid place to start from.
Test with proviron and var makes sense, adding tbol over dbol will keep things drier and easier to manage so that’s a smart move.

With your calories, I’d push protein higher than 200g since you want to climb into the 180-190lb range lean, carbs at that level will fuel legs which you’re prioritising.
The blend you ordered looks good, a conservative dosing approach is best, split it up through the week so you can assess how shoulders respond without overdoing it.

Bloodwork before, during, and after will keep you covered. I would start with bloods if you can asap, you're in what country? CA?

supplements
what digestive supps you use?
digestive enzymes?
multis?
probiotics?
psyllium husk?

are you listening to our podcast? if not, you should:
https://www.evolutionary.org/podcasts/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/evolutionary-bodybuilding-radio/id1798623410
https://open.spotify.com/show/53q1RFTgG4h6TQHsJ4xY6Z
Click to expand...
Lev, I am in the US. The only supps I take is Taurine, Omega 3, TUDCA. I have some probiotics, but have not taken any.

A goal is to have some growth in the abs and waist. Hard to see it in that photo, but I have loose skin there. I'm hoping the KLOW will help with that too
 
ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...
bros the setup is good. but i would swap out dbol for tbol. this way less water retention @ProTools
 
ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...
@ProTools You won't go wrong with this type of strong training. Make sure you post up some pictures of your meals. Just posting the macros isn't good enough.
 
ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...
@ProTools looks good if you ask me. this is food is on point. and i love the steroids you put together
 
ProTools said:
Lev, I am in the US. The only supps I take is Taurine, Omega 3, TUDCA. I have some probiotics, but have not taken any.

A goal is to have some growth in the abs and waist. Hard to see it in that photo, but I have loose skin there. I'm hoping the KLOW will help with that too
Click to expand...
Start adding probiotics digestive enzymes and psyllium husk daily, they are cheap and easy to get, digestive aids are a must.
With the orals and stronger cycle, you need cycle support, organs liver kidneys heart, get n2guard, 1 bottle is for 2 months for you -
https://n2guard.com
https://www.needtobuildmuscle.com/cycle-support/n2guard

If you want some growth, we can get there, but the loose skin you need to do some fasting, even if you grow more, you'll need to fast a bit to tighten up the skin. have you done fasting? @ProTools
 
ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...
Definitely will be following along 💪
 
ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...
@ProTools welcome! I will be following along for sure!
 
ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...
@ProTools Amazing start to log bro.......
 
LevButlerov said:
Start adding probiotics digestive enzymes and psyllium husk daily, they are cheap and easy to get, digestive aids are a must.
With the orals and stronger cycle, you need cycle support, organs liver kidneys heart, get n2guard, 1 bottle is for 2 months for you -
https://n2guard.com
https://www.needtobuildmuscle.com/cycle-support/n2guard

If you want some growth, we can get there, but the loose skin you need to do some fasting, even if you grow more, you'll need to fast a bit to tighten up the skin. have you done fasting? @ProTools
Click to expand...

I will add probiotics and psyllium husk. How much of that is needed per day? I use TUDCA for liver..etc. Looking at n2guard, it has TUDCA in it. I use 2 times the amount in it. I like the product and the ingredients. I will order it and add 1 dose of TUDCA with it. Can not be too safe.

I can fast too. No issues there. But how does that help?
 
As an update.

My KLOW has shipped and will be here Friday. Tesamorelin, CJC-1295 (No DAC), Ipamorelin 12mg (Blend) will be here Saturday. CJC-1295, Ipamorelin, and Tesamorelin are often combined together due to their synergistic ability to stimulate GHRH for enhanced results. Research reports accelerated fat loss, improved sleep, mood, increased energy, cognitive function and memory, cellular repair and regeneration as well as long term, natural GH production with Ipamorelin. Even after a cycle, the GH production is higher. I am combining this to my 1iu of HGH at night.

All other supplies/gear was ordered 17 days ago and I still have no tracking on them. That concerns me.
 
ProTools said:
Let's do this.

Me:
- Weight is 162-165lbs down from 195
- age 54
- BF, my best guess is 12%
- No health issues like BP, cholesterol is normal. I take no prescribed meds and have never had a surgery. BP is normal. I checked it just seconds ago. 3 takes, 108-115 over 68-70. And right now I am knocking on wood!

My Goals:

- 180-190lbs in 3 months
- 10% or below BF

Past Cycles:

- In my late 30s, I did some sarms with Test Cyp.
- I stopped going to the gym due to life, and I went from 181lbs and 10% BF to 195lbs and just fat! I was out for 10 plus years.
- Prior to my last cycle, it's been 10 plus years of nothing but natural.
- My Last cycle consisted of:

Test Cyp 250mgs per week as base.
Proviron 25mgs per day starting week 2 (never increased it)
Anavar 10mgs per day starting week 4 (never increased it)
Clen at 10mgs starting week 8 (increased weekly at 5 mg increments)
Tren A 100mgs per week starting at week 12 (added it for 4 weeks at the end)


My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.
- HCG at 250 once per week to keep the boys full. It helps in bouncing back.
- HGH 1 IU per night (just health purposes)
- AI on hand
- Caber on hand
- PCT on hand

I am considering TBOL over DBOL. Thought on this are appreciated.


Macro Targets (Low–Moderate Carb Lean Bulk):​


  • Calories: ~2,700–2,900 kcal/day (adjust weekly)
  • Protein: 1.1–1.2g per lb → 180–195g/day
  • Carbs: 1–1.5g per lb → 165–240g/day
  • Fat: 0.4–0.45g per lb → 70–80g/day

Starting next week, I will run BPC 157 with GHK-Cu for my shoulders. I think I have some weakness in the front delts.... or arthritis LOL. It's a new development. I plane on only doing stretches and band work until the cycle starts. Once my cycle starts I will focus on legs. Short story... I need an ass! Seriously. For lower back health. Legs are a weakness so I plan on 2 to 3 days per week and each day will have different exercises.

That's it for now. Will update on my shoulders until cycle time.
Click to expand...
@ProTools glad to have you here on Evo. Can’t wait to follow along and see how well you push it.
 
ProTools said:
I will add probiotics and psyllium husk. How much of that is needed per day? I use TUDCA for liver..etc. Looking at n2guard, it has TUDCA in it. I use 2 times the amount in it. I like the product and the ingredients. I will order it and add 1 dose of TUDCA with it. Can not be too safe.

I can fast too. No issues there. But how does that help?
Click to expand...
Psyllium 10 grams per day use powder.
It's a good way to add n2guard on top, go for it. @ProTools

The fasting is too complex to discuss in 1 post, you should check @stevesmi log on it
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...ild-more-muscle-and-my-prolong-fast-log.81856
ProTools said:
As an update.

My KLOW has shipped and will be here Friday. Tesamorelin, CJC-1295 (No DAC), Ipamorelin 12mg (Blend) will be here Saturday. CJC-1295, Ipamorelin, and Tesamorelin are often combined together due to their synergistic ability to stimulate GHRH for enhanced results. Research reports accelerated fat loss, improved sleep, mood, increased energy, cognitive function and memory, cellular repair and regeneration as well as long term, natural GH production with Ipamorelin. Even after a cycle, the GH production is higher. I am combining this to my 1iu of HGH at night.

All other supplies/gear was ordered 17 days ago and I still have no tracking on them. That concerns me.
Click to expand...
Good timing on the KLOW and the peptide blend, those together with a touch of HGH at night should give you a nice push in recovery, fat loss and sleep quality. Running the ipamorelin and cjc alongside tesamorelin is a smart stack since they don’t fight each other and you’ll get that synergy you mentioned.

The only downside right now is your main order lagging with no tracking after 17 days, that’s not great. Some shops stall when stock is thin or shipping is tight, so if nothing updates by the 3-week mark I’d start pressing them or planning a backup source so you’re not stuck mid-cycle without what you need. who did you order from?
 
LevButlerov said:
Psyllium 10 grams per day use powder.
It's a good way to add n2guard on top, go for it. @ProTools

The fasting is too complex to discuss in 1 post, you should check @stevesmi log on it
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...ild-more-muscle-and-my-prolong-fast-log.81856

Good timing on the KLOW and the peptide blend, those together with a touch of HGH at night should give you a nice push in recovery, fat loss and sleep quality. Running the ipamorelin and cjc alongside tesamorelin is a smart stack since they don’t fight each other and you’ll get that synergy you mentioned.

The only downside right now is your main order lagging with no tracking after 17 days, that’s not great. Some shops stall when stock is thin or shipping is tight, so if nothing updates by the 3-week mark I’d start pressing them or planning a backup source so you’re not stuck mid-cycle without what you need. who did you order from?
Click to expand...
One told me up front that it takes up to 14 days to get a tracking number. I have ordered from them before. The other I order regularly from due to my wifes meds. I think the issue for them is tariffs. They said they have a work around now, but until I see the tracking....
 
ProTools said:
One told me up front that it takes up to 14 days to get a tracking number. I have ordered from them before. The other I order regularly from due to my wifes meds. I think the issue for them is tariffs. They said they have a work around now, but until I see the tracking....
Click to expand...
what supplier is this?
 
ProTools said:
2 suppliers. 1 is PharmaQo the other is onlinegenericmedicines, it's a pharmacy in India.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a really bad idea, you didn't get from an approved source? you're playing games with your health, could be fake could be counterfeit god knows. @ProTools
 
LevButlerov said:
That sounds like a really bad idea, you didn't get from an approved source? you're playing games with your health, could be fake could be counterfeit god knows. @ProTools
Click to expand...
The one in India, I have dealt with for years. I order from them regularly due to my wife's prescriptions. It's where I got the items for my last cycle. Pharmaqolabsstore.to is where I got my trenA and PCT from.

I have no problems ordering else where, it's just I have dealt with these.
 
ProTools said:
The one in India, I have dealt with for years. I order from them regularly due to my wife's prescriptions. It's where I got the items for my last cycle. Pharmaqolabsstore.to is where I got my trenA and PCT from.

I have no problems ordering else where, it's just I have dealt with these.
Click to expand...
Indian suppliers are total scams for gear, they’ll push contaminated oil with heavy metals that can wreck your health. Using them for legit prescriptions is one thing but trusting them for tren or pct is a big risk. Best to stick with known labs and vetted sources so you’re not pinning poison into your body. :D
 
LevButlerov said:
Indian suppliers are total scams for gear, they’ll push contaminated oil with heavy metals that can wreck your health. Using them for legit prescriptions is one thing but trusting them for tren or pct is a big risk. Best to stick with known labs and vetted sources so you’re not pinning poison into your body. :D
Click to expand...
I would love a source within the US. Point me in that direction.
 
An update:

- Resting my shoulders prior to a new cycle and the KLOW injections has been helpful. All I am currently doing is light band therapy. KLOW should be here today. I will start with a lower dosage in each shoulder, Sub Q. Any recommendations on what that amount is?

- Got message today that my order(this order is var, dbol, and Proviron) will be shipped on the 10th. That means it will get here roughly 14 days from that point. Considering when I ordered and when I actually will get it, I'm not too happy. But I will look on the positive side.... more time to heal without going heavy.

- The other items, TEST Cyp and tbol, should be here sometime next week.

Depending on how my shoulders are, I may start the Test and tbol next week. So I will spend my time this weekend laying out my diet, and work outs. That brings me to asking the room this question:

- I plan on legs being every 3rd day. -Week 1: Mon, Thurs, and Sunday -Week 2: Wed, Sat - Week 3: Tues, Fri. Week 4: same as week 1.
I'm looking for ideas on my approach. My thoughts are to change the work out every leg day.
 
ProTools said:
An update:

- Resting my shoulders prior to a new cycle and the KLOW injections has been helpful. All I am currently doing is light band therapy. KLOW should be here today. I will start with a lower dosage in each shoulder, Sub Q. Any recommendations on what that amount is?

- Got message today that my order(this order is var, dbol, and Proviron) will be shipped on the 10th. That means it will get here roughly 14 days from that point. Considering when I ordered and when I actually will get it, I'm not too happy. But I will look on the positive side.... more time to heal without going heavy.

- The other items, TEST Cyp and tbol, should be here sometime next week.

Depending on how my shoulders are, I may start the Test and tbol next week. So I will spend my time this weekend laying out my diet, and work outs. That brings me to asking the room this question:

- I plan on legs being every 3rd day. -Week 1: Mon, Thurs, and Sunday -Week 2: Wed, Sat - Week 3: Tues, Fri. Week 4: same as week 1.
I'm looking for ideas on my approach. My thoughts are to change the work out every leg day.
Click to expand...
For the KLOW I’d keep it conservative to start, 1 iu Sub Q per delt is usually plenty to assess tolerance before creeping higher. No need to rush the dose since the shoulders are still in recovery mode. @ProTools

On the shipping, 14 days is annoying but you’re right, it buys you extra healing time before hammering the heavier lifts again. Having the test and tbol lined up next week gives you flexibility to roll right into a clean start once you’re feeling solid.
Though I want to repeat again, if you getting it from India, I would NOT use it, it can give you an infection.

Legs every 3rd day works fine, and rotating exercises each session is a good idea so you’re not smashing the exact same movement patterns back to back. Keep staples like squats or presses in, then cycle accessories like hacks, RDLs, lunges, and extensions around them to cover all angles.
 
ProTools said:
An update:

- Resting my shoulders prior to a new cycle and the KLOW injections has been helpful. All I am currently doing is light band therapy. KLOW should be here today. I will start with a lower dosage in each shoulder, Sub Q. Any recommendations on what that amount is?

- Got message today that my order(this order is var, dbol, and Proviron) will be shipped on the 10th. That means it will get here roughly 14 days from that point. Considering when I ordered and when I actually will get it, I'm not too happy. But I will look on the positive side.... more time to heal without going heavy.

- The other items, TEST Cyp and tbol, should be here sometime next week.

Depending on how my shoulders are, I may start the Test and tbol next week. So I will spend my time this weekend laying out my diet, and work outs. That brings me to asking the room this question:

- I plan on legs being every 3rd day. -Week 1: Mon, Thurs, and Sunday -Week 2: Wed, Sat - Week 3: Tues, Fri. Week 4: same as week 1.
I'm looking for ideas on my approach. My thoughts are to change the work out every leg day.
Click to expand...
@ProTools That's a very aggressive approach to working your legs. But I guess it depends on how much volume you're doing. If you're going balls to the wall, then I would not do it that often.
 
ProTools said:
An update:

- Resting my shoulders prior to a new cycle and the KLOW injections has been helpful. All I am currently doing is light band therapy. KLOW should be here today. I will start with a lower dosage in each shoulder, Sub Q. Any recommendations on what that amount is?

- Got message today that my order(this order is var, dbol, and Proviron) will be shipped on the 10th. That means it will get here roughly 14 days from that point. Considering when I ordered and when I actually will get it, I'm not too happy. But I will look on the positive side.... more time to heal without going heavy.

- The other items, TEST Cyp and tbol, should be here sometime next week.

Depending on how my shoulders are, I may start the Test and tbol next week. So I will spend my time this weekend laying out my diet, and work outs. That brings me to asking the room this question:

- I plan on legs being every 3rd day. -Week 1: Mon, Thurs, and Sunday -Week 2: Wed, Sat - Week 3: Tues, Fri. Week 4: same as week 1.
I'm looking for ideas on my approach. My thoughts are to change the work out every leg day.
Click to expand...
bros i give you a lot of love and props on this one. i can't wait to see how you do on test and tbol. i like tbol, a lot of people think it too mild but i disagree ! @ProTools
 
ProTools said:
An update:

- Resting my shoulders prior to a new cycle and the KLOW injections has been helpful. All I am currently doing is light band therapy. KLOW should be here today. I will start with a lower dosage in each shoulder, Sub Q. Any recommendations on what that amount is?

- Got message today that my order(this order is var, dbol, and Proviron) will be shipped on the 10th. That means it will get here roughly 14 days from that point. Considering when I ordered and when I actually will get it, I'm not too happy. But I will look on the positive side.... more time to heal without going heavy.

- The other items, TEST Cyp and tbol, should be here sometime next week.

Depending on how my shoulders are, I may start the Test and tbol next week. So I will spend my time this weekend laying out my diet, and work outs. That brings me to asking the room this question:

- I plan on legs being every 3rd day. -Week 1: Mon, Thurs, and Sunday -Week 2: Wed, Sat - Week 3: Tues, Fri. Week 4: same as week 1.
I'm looking for ideas on my approach. My thoughts are to change the work out every leg day.
Click to expand...
Remind me what KLOW is.
 
ProTools said:
An update:

- Resting my shoulders prior to a new cycle and the KLOW injections has been helpful. All I am currently doing is light band therapy. KLOW should be here today. I will start with a lower dosage in each shoulder, Sub Q. Any recommendations on what that amount is?

- Got message today that my order(this order is var, dbol, and Proviron) will be shipped on the 10th. That means it will get here roughly 14 days from that point. Considering when I ordered and when I actually will get it, I'm not too happy. But I will look on the positive side.... more time to heal without going heavy.

- The other items, TEST Cyp and tbol, should be here sometime next week.

Depending on how my shoulders are, I may start the Test and tbol next week. So I will spend my time this weekend laying out my diet, and work outs. That brings me to asking the room this question:

- I plan on legs being every 3rd day. -Week 1: Mon, Thurs, and Sunday -Week 2: Wed, Sat - Week 3: Tues, Fri. Week 4: same as week 1.
I'm looking for ideas on my approach. My thoughts are to change the work out every leg day.
Click to expand...
I think this is a good strategy to allow the shoulder to heal. @ProTools Maybe wait an extra week. Spend that extra week doing some rotation movements.
 
ProTools said:
An update:

- Resting my shoulders prior to a new cycle and the KLOW injections has been helpful. All I am currently doing is light band therapy. KLOW should be here today. I will start with a lower dosage in each shoulder, Sub Q. Any recommendations on what that amount is?

- Got message today that my order(this order is var, dbol, and Proviron) will be shipped on the 10th. That means it will get here roughly 14 days from that point. Considering when I ordered and when I actually will get it, I'm not too happy. But I will look on the positive side.... more time to heal without going heavy.

- The other items, TEST Cyp and tbol, should be here sometime next week.

Depending on how my shoulders are, I may start the Test and tbol next week. So I will spend my time this weekend laying out my diet, and work outs. That brings me to asking the room this question:

- I plan on legs being every 3rd day. -Week 1: Mon, Thurs, and Sunday -Week 2: Wed, Sat - Week 3: Tues, Fri. Week 4: same as week 1.
I'm looking for ideas on my approach. My thoughts are to change the work out every leg day.
Click to expand...
@ProTools i will give you some advice man. when it comes to ordering gear always order it ahead of time. also worry more about quality and getting it safely, vs. speed. remember its not amazon
 
ProTools said:
An update:

- Resting my shoulders prior to a new cycle and the KLOW injections has been helpful. All I am currently doing is light band therapy. KLOW should be here today. I will start with a lower dosage in each shoulder, Sub Q. Any recommendations on what that amount is?

- Got message today that my order(this order is var, dbol, and Proviron) will be shipped on the 10th. That means it will get here roughly 14 days from that point. Considering when I ordered and when I actually will get it, I'm not too happy. But I will look on the positive side.... more time to heal without going heavy.

- The other items, TEST Cyp and tbol, should be here sometime next week.

Depending on how my shoulders are, I may start the Test and tbol next week. So I will spend my time this weekend laying out my diet, and work outs. That brings me to asking the room this question:

- I plan on legs being every 3rd day. -Week 1: Mon, Thurs, and Sunday -Week 2: Wed, Sat - Week 3: Tues, Fri. Week 4: same as week 1.
I'm looking for ideas on my approach. My thoughts are to change the work out every leg day.
Click to expand...
i like that doing legs 2x a week. Build up some good quality size to them. Hopefully you get your gear soon. @ProTools
 
LevButlerov said:
For the KLOW I’d keep it conservative to start, 1 iu Sub Q per delt is usually plenty to assess tolerance before creeping higher. No need to rush the dose since the shoulders are still in recovery mode. @ProTools

On the shipping, 14 days is annoying but you’re right, it buys you extra healing time before hammering the heavier lifts again. Having the test and tbol lined up next week gives you flexibility to roll right into a clean start once you’re feeling solid.
Though I want to repeat again, if you getting it from India, I would NOT use it, it can give you an infection.

Legs every 3rd day works fine, and rotating exercises each session is a good idea so you’re not smashing the exact same movement patterns back to back. Keep staples like squats or presses in, then cycle accessories like hacks, RDLs, lunges, and extensions around them to cover all angles.
Click to expand...
No oils are coming from India. Var and Dbol pill form only.
 
stevesmi said:
@ProTools That's a very aggressive approach to working your legs. But I guess it depends on how much volume you're doing. If you're going balls to the wall, then I would not do it that often.
Click to expand...
I'm fighting genetics. Legs are an issue for me. My thoughts were to break up the type of lifts I am doing over the 3 day rotation. Example Squats day 1, deadlifts day 2, leg extensions/curls on 3rd day. Calves every leg day.

Thoughts on that?
 
ProTools said:
I'm fighting genetics. Legs are an issue for me. My thoughts were to break up the type of lifts I am doing over the 3 day rotation. Example Squats day 1, deadlifts day 2, leg extensions/curls on 3rd day. Calves every leg day.

Thoughts on that?
Click to expand...
Depends on the volume and intensity
 
ProTools said:
An update:

- Resting my shoulders prior to a new cycle and the KLOW injections has been helpful. All I am currently doing is light band therapy. KLOW should be here today. I will start with a lower dosage in each shoulder, Sub Q. Any recommendations on what that amount is?

- Got message today that my order(this order is var, dbol, and Proviron) will be shipped on the 10th. That means it will get here roughly 14 days from that point. Considering when I ordered and when I actually will get it, I'm not too happy. But I will look on the positive side.... more time to heal without going heavy.

- The other items, TEST Cyp and tbol, should be here sometime next week.

Depending on how my shoulders are, I may start the Test and tbol next week. So I will spend my time this weekend laying out my diet, and work outs. That brings me to asking the room this question:

- I plan on legs being every 3rd day. -Week 1: Mon, Thurs, and Sunday -Week 2: Wed, Sat - Week 3: Tues, Fri. Week 4: same as week 1.
I'm looking for ideas on my approach. My thoughts are to change the work out every leg day.
Click to expand...
I like the plan you have Bru
 
ProTools said:
An update:

- Resting my shoulders prior to a new cycle and the KLOW injections has been helpful. All I am currently doing is light band therapy. KLOW should be here today. I will start with a lower dosage in each shoulder, Sub Q. Any recommendations on what that amount is?

- Got message today that my order(this order is var, dbol, and Proviron) will be shipped on the 10th. That means it will get here roughly 14 days from that point. Considering when I ordered and when I actually will get it, I'm not too happy. But I will look on the positive side.... more time to heal without going heavy.

- The other items, TEST Cyp and tbol, should be here sometime next week.

Depending on how my shoulders are, I may start the Test and tbol next week. So I will spend my time this weekend laying out my diet, and work outs. That brings me to asking the room this question:

- I plan on legs being every 3rd day. -Week 1: Mon, Thurs, and Sunday -Week 2: Wed, Sat - Week 3: Tues, Fri. Week 4: same as week 1.
I'm looking for ideas on my approach. My thoughts are to change the work out every leg day.
Click to expand...
Never heard of klow so im not sure
 
ProTools said:
An update:

- Resting my shoulders prior to a new cycle and the KLOW injections has been helpful. All I am currently doing is light band therapy. KLOW should be here today. I will start with a lower dosage in each shoulder, Sub Q. Any recommendations on what that amount is?

- Got message today that my order(this order is var, dbol, and Proviron) will be shipped on the 10th. That means it will get here roughly 14 days from that point. Considering when I ordered and when I actually will get it, I'm not too happy. But I will look on the positive side.... more time to heal without going heavy.

- The other items, TEST Cyp and tbol, should be here sometime next week.

Depending on how my shoulders are, I may start the Test and tbol next week. So I will spend my time this weekend laying out my diet, and work outs. That brings me to asking the room this question:

- I plan on legs being every 3rd day. -Week 1: Mon, Thurs, and Sunday -Week 2: Wed, Sat - Week 3: Tues, Fri. Week 4: same as week 1.
I'm looking for ideas on my approach. My thoughts are to change the work out every leg day.
Click to expand...
@ProTools take good care of the shoulder.....
 
ProTools said:
An update:

- Resting my shoulders prior to a new cycle and the KLOW injections has been helpful. All I am currently doing is light band therapy. KLOW should be here today. I will start with a lower dosage in each shoulder, Sub Q. Any recommendations on what that amount is?

- Got message today that my order(this order is var, dbol, and Proviron) will be shipped on the 10th. That means it will get here roughly 14 days from that point. Considering when I ordered and when I actually will get it, I'm not too happy. But I will look on the positive side.... more time to heal without going heavy.

- The other items, TEST Cyp and tbol, should be here sometime next week.

Depending on how my shoulders are, I may start the Test and tbol next week. So I will spend my time this weekend laying out my diet, and work outs. That brings me to asking the room this question:

- I plan on legs being every 3rd day. -Week 1: Mon, Thurs, and Sunday -Week 2: Wed, Sat - Week 3: Tues, Fri. Week 4: same as week 1.
I'm looking for ideas on my approach. My thoughts are to change the work out every leg day.
Click to expand...
@ProTools don’t forget to let us see the touch down when you get it. Love seeing those
 
Got KLOW in today. Took a sub-q shot per shoulder at 6 units total (3 units per arm). The amount in KLOW blend is 1mg GHK-Cu, 200mcg BPC157, 200mcg TB500, 200 mcg KVP per 6 units.

On Saturday, I started my Tesamorelin, CJC-1295 (No DAC), Ipamorelin 12mg (Blend). (250mcgs) Tesamorelin is an FDA approved GHRH (Growth Hormone-Releasing Hormone). Ipamorelin is a selective ghrelin receptor agonist—or in simpler terms, a peptide that mimics the hormone ghrelin to trigger the release of growth hormone from the pituitary gland. CJC-1295. This peptide works by increasing the half-life of GHRH (Growth Hormone-Releasing Hormone), essentially making your body’s natural growth hormone production more consistent over time.

Tesamorelin and Ipamorelin target different yet complementary aspects of the growth hormone axis. Tesamorelin, as a GHRH analog, pushes the pituitary to produce GH. Ipamorelin, being a GHRP, signals the release of that stored GH. When taken together, they create a synergistic effect that amplifies your body’s natural growth hormone pulse.

KLOW and Tesamorelin, CJC-1295 (No DAC), Ipamorelin 12mg (Blend) should work together in healing up my shoulders plus sleeping well to recoup from work outs.


I will keep you all updated on this protocol 1 time per week as I expect it to not be an over night fix.
 
ProTools said:
Got KLOW in today. Took a sub-q shot per shoulder at 6 units total (3 units per arm). The amount in KLOW blend is 1mg GHK-Cu, 200mcg BPC157, 200mcg TB500, 200 mcg KVP per 6 units.

On Saturday, I started my Tesamorelin, CJC-1295 (No DAC), Ipamorelin 12mg (Blend). (250mcgs) Tesamorelin is an FDA approved GHRH (Growth Hormone-Releasing Hormone). Ipamorelin is a selective ghrelin receptor agonist—or in simpler terms, a peptide that mimics the hormone ghrelin to trigger the release of growth hormone from the pituitary gland. CJC-1295. This peptide works by increasing the half-life of GHRH (Growth Hormone-Releasing Hormone), essentially making your body’s natural growth hormone production more consistent over time.

Tesamorelin and Ipamorelin target different yet complementary aspects of the growth hormone axis. Tesamorelin, as a GHRH analog, pushes the pituitary to produce GH. Ipamorelin, being a GHRP, signals the release of that stored GH. When taken together, they create a synergistic effect that amplifies your body’s natural growth hormone pulse.

KLOW and Tesamorelin, CJC-1295 (No DAC), Ipamorelin 12mg (Blend) should work together in healing up my shoulders plus sleeping well to recoup from work outs.


I will keep you all updated on this protocol 1 time per week as I expect it to not be an over night fix.
Click to expand...
Can you post some touchdown pics of the KLOW? @ProTools
Good setup with the KLOW blend and that GHRH/GHRP combo. The GHK-Cu, BPC-157, and TB-500 mix will cover tissue repair while the Tesamorelin, CJC-1295, and Ipamorelin stack should enhance recovery and sleep quality over a few weeks.

Keep doses consistent at 250 mcg split AM and PM on non-training and training days, and monitor fasting glucose since Tesamorelin can nudge it up. Rotate sub-q sites every few pins to keep irritation down and log weekly shoulder mobility to track real healing progress.
 
Update: Diet plan

1- I will add photos of gear tonight.

Duration: 12 weeks
Starting weight: 164 lbs
Target weight: 190 lbs
Goal rate: +2–2.5 lbs/week
Focus: Lean muscle gain with minimal fat accumulation
Training: 5–6 days/week (resistance + progressive overload)

DAILY CALORIC TARGET​


Maintenance (approx): 2,400 kcal/day
Bulking target: 3,200–3,400 kcal/day


  • Start with +800–1,000 calories above maintenance.
  • Adjust weekly if weight gain stalls for 7+ days.

Meal 1 – Breakfast​


  • 5 egg whites + 2 whole eggs
  • 1 cup oats with 1 tbsp natural peanut butter
  • 1 banana
    → 600 kcal

Meal 2 – Mid-Morning Snack​


  • 1 scoop whey protein (25g protein)
  • 1 cup Greek yogurt
  • 1 oz almonds
    → 400 kcal

Meal 3 – Lunch​


  • 7 oz chicken breast
  • 1 cup cooked rice
  • 1 cup steamed broccoli
  • 1 tbsp olive oil
    → 600 kcal

Meal 4 – Pre-Workout​


  • 1 cup oats
  • 1 scoop whey protein
  • 1 tbsp honey
    → 400 kcal

Meal 5 – Post-Workout​


  • 1 scoop whey isolate
  • 2 cups low-fat milk
  • 1 banana
    → 400 kcal

Meal 6 – Dinner​


  • 8 oz lean beef or salmon
  • 1 medium sweet potato
  • 1 cup green vegetables
  • 1 tsp butter or olive oil
    → 600 kcal

Meal 7 – Before Bed​


  • 1 cup cottage cheese or casein protein
  • 1 tbsp almond butter
    → 300 kcal



TRAINING OVERVIEW (5–6 days/week)​

Split Example:
DayFocusNotes
MonChest + TricepsHeavy compound + volume
TueBack + BicepsRows, pull-ups, deadlifts
WedLegsSquats, lunges, extensions
ThuShoulders + AbsOverhead press, raises
FriChest/Back (light)Pump + stretch
SatLegs/ArmsAccessory + volume
SunRestOptional light cardio/stretch


This is where I need the most help. I need leg growth and glute growth and arm growth. All of my cycle will be here today, it's out for delivery.

Of note, I own chickens... I get 6-7 eggs per day. It will be a major source for me. I have a about 45 saved up.
 
ProTools said:
Update: Diet plan

1- I will add photos of gear tonight.

Duration: 12 weeks
Starting weight: 164 lbs
Target weight: 190 lbs
Goal rate: +2–2.5 lbs/week
Focus: Lean muscle gain with minimal fat accumulation
Training: 5–6 days/week (resistance + progressive overload)

DAILY CALORIC TARGET​


Maintenance (approx): 2,400 kcal/day
Bulking target: 3,200–3,400 kcal/day


  • Start with +800–1,000 calories above maintenance.
  • Adjust weekly if weight gain stalls for 7+ days.

Meal 1 – Breakfast​


  • 5 egg whites + 2 whole eggs
  • 1 cup oats with 1 tbsp natural peanut butter
  • 1 banana
    → 600 kcal

Meal 2 – Mid-Morning Snack​


  • 1 scoop whey protein (25g protein)
  • 1 cup Greek yogurt
  • 1 oz almonds
    → 400 kcal

Meal 3 – Lunch​


  • 7 oz chicken breast
  • 1 cup cooked rice
  • 1 cup steamed broccoli
  • 1 tbsp olive oil
    → 600 kcal

Meal 4 – Pre-Workout​


  • 1 cup oats
  • 1 scoop whey protein
  • 1 tbsp honey
    → 400 kcal

Meal 5 – Post-Workout​


  • 1 scoop whey isolate
  • 2 cups low-fat milk
  • 1 banana
    → 400 kcal

Meal 6 – Dinner​


  • 8 oz lean beef or salmon
  • 1 medium sweet potato
  • 1 cup green vegetables
  • 1 tsp butter or olive oil
    → 600 kcal

Meal 7 – Before Bed​


  • 1 cup cottage cheese or casein protein
  • 1 tbsp almond butter
    → 300 kcal



TRAINING OVERVIEW (5–6 days/week)​

Split Example:
DayFocusNotes
MonChest + TricepsHeavy compound + volume
TueBack + BicepsRows, pull-ups, deadlifts
WedLegsSquats, lunges, extensions
ThuShoulders + AbsOverhead press, raises
FriChest/Back (light)Pump + stretch
SatLegs/ArmsAccessory + volume
SunRestOptional light cardio/stretch


This is where I need the most help. I need leg growth and glute growth and arm growth. All of my cycle will be here today, it's out for delivery.

Of note, I own chickens... I get 6-7 eggs per day. It will be a major source for me. I have a about 45 saved up.
Click to expand...
This is not your plan, you got this from ai right? @ProTools
But it's a good diet plan. The 3200–3400 kcal range fits your +2 to +2.5 lbs per week goal, and the egg supply gives you plenty of protein options to rotate into meals.

For leg, glute, and arm growth, make them your high-effort focus days. Add paused back squats and Romanian deadlifts 3x8–10 for legs and glutes, and close-grip presses with incline curls 3x10–12 for arms.

@ProTools why no answer to my post?
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...anavar-proviron-cycle-log.106746/post-1849640

LevButlerov said:
Can you post some touchdown pics of the KLOW? @ProTools
Good setup with the KLOW blend and that GHRH/GHRP combo. The GHK-Cu, BPC-157, and TB-500 mix will cover tissue repair while the Tesamorelin, CJC-1295, and Ipamorelin stack should enhance recovery and sleep quality over a few weeks.

Keep doses consistent at 250 mcg split AM and PM on non-training and training days, and monitor fasting glucose since Tesamorelin can nudge it up. Rotate sub-q sites every few pins to keep irritation down and log weekly shoulder mobility to track real healing progress.
Click to expand...
 
LevButlerov said:
This is not your plan, you got this from ai right? @ProTools
But it's a good diet plan. The 3200–3400 kcal range fits your +2 to +2.5 lbs per week goal, and the egg supply gives you plenty of protein options to rotate into meals.

For leg, glute, and arm growth, make them your high-effort focus days. Add paused back squats and Romanian deadlifts 3x8–10 for legs and glutes, and close-grip presses with incline curls 3x10–12 for arms.

@ProTools why no answer to my post?
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...anavar-proviron-cycle-log.106746/post-1849640
Click to expand...
Adding photos tonight
 
TBOL should be here monday
 

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ProTools said:
Update: Diet plan

1- I will add photos of gear tonight.

Duration: 12 weeks
Starting weight: 164 lbs
Target weight: 190 lbs
Goal rate: +2–2.5 lbs/week
Focus: Lean muscle gain with minimal fat accumulation
Training: 5–6 days/week (resistance + progressive overload)

DAILY CALORIC TARGET​


Maintenance (approx): 2,400 kcal/day
Bulking target: 3,200–3,400 kcal/day


  • Start with +800–1,000 calories above maintenance.
  • Adjust weekly if weight gain stalls for 7+ days.

Meal 1 – Breakfast​


  • 5 egg whites + 2 whole eggs
  • 1 cup oats with 1 tbsp natural peanut butter
  • 1 banana
    → 600 kcal

Meal 2 – Mid-Morning Snack​


  • 1 scoop whey protein (25g protein)
  • 1 cup Greek yogurt
  • 1 oz almonds
    → 400 kcal

Meal 3 – Lunch​


  • 7 oz chicken breast
  • 1 cup cooked rice
  • 1 cup steamed broccoli
  • 1 tbsp olive oil
    → 600 kcal

Meal 4 – Pre-Workout​


  • 1 cup oats
  • 1 scoop whey protein
  • 1 tbsp honey
    → 400 kcal

Meal 5 – Post-Workout​


  • 1 scoop whey isolate
  • 2 cups low-fat milk
  • 1 banana
    → 400 kcal

Meal 6 – Dinner​


  • 8 oz lean beef or salmon
  • 1 medium sweet potato
  • 1 cup green vegetables
  • 1 tsp butter or olive oil
    → 600 kcal

Meal 7 – Before Bed​


  • 1 cup cottage cheese or casein protein
  • 1 tbsp almond butter
    → 300 kcal



TRAINING OVERVIEW (5–6 days/week)​

Split Example:
DayFocusNotes
MonChest + TricepsHeavy compound + volume
TueBack + BicepsRows, pull-ups, deadlifts
WedLegsSquats, lunges, extensions
ThuShoulders + AbsOverhead press, raises
FriChest/Back (light)Pump + stretch
SatLegs/ArmsAccessory + volume
SunRestOptional light cardio/stretch


This is where I need the most help. I need leg growth and glute growth and arm growth. All of my cycle will be here today, it's out for delivery.

Of note, I own chickens... I get 6-7 eggs per day. It will be a major source for me. I have a about 45 saved up.
Click to expand...
@ProTools nice job for sure. the split training is looking solid. i like how you do a 2nd chest day but go light
 
LevButlerov said:
This is not your plan, you got this from ai right? @ProTools
But it's a good diet plan. The 3200–3400 kcal range fits your +2 to +2.5 lbs per week goal, and the egg supply gives you plenty of protein options to rotate into meals.

For leg, glute, and arm growth, make them your high-effort focus days. Add paused back squats and Romanian deadlifts 3x8–10 for legs and glutes, and close-grip presses with incline curls 3x10–12 for arms.

@ProTools why no answer to my post?
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...anavar-proviron-cycle-log.106746/post-1849640
Click to expand...

It's my plan. I just entered the details and let it do the setting up. When I dropped the weight, I enter details that included what type of diet (carb cycling) my weight goals, the foods, the focus, the amount of lifting days, the splits.... etc. I let it do it's thing and print it out.

On this, I will adjust. I will not start with a calorie surplus in week one. I will add a surplus closer to 300 calories in week 2. And raise that by 250 calories per week based off what I see in the mirror and on the scale (I will weight daily). If I need more, I take in more. If all is well and I have the growth, I will keep adding 250 cals per week.

My goal is 190 with the understanding it will not all be fat free, 100% muscle growth. I do have clen and tren. Which brings me to ask a question.

I am thinking of prolonging my test cyp use after I'm done with the rest of the cycle. I'm thinking add tren on a calorie Maintenace with the test cyp to cut fat. Add Clen as needed. Thought
 
Support items:

HCG @ 250 once per week. For me it allows me to rebound easier
TUDCA for liver support
Milk Thistle for liver support
Omega 3.. joint support
KLOW... joint support.
Whole Psyllium Husk powder (got to make the poop!)

Heart Health:​

Tadalafil 2.5mg
L-Citrulline — 3–6 g/day
D3+K2
CoQ10

I know... Tadalafil for heart?? Yes. Here are the studies:

Journals Publication

Harvard.. 72,000 men studied

hims.com article


Chatgpt explains like this:

Steroids and Cardiovascular Stress​


Anabolic steroids (like testosterone, Dbol, Tbol, etc.) can negatively impact your heart and blood vessels by:


1️⃣ → Makes blood more viscous, raising blood pressure and strain on the heart.​



2️⃣ → Promotes plaque buildup and arterial stiffness.​



3️⃣ → From water retention and vasoconstriction.​



4️⃣ → NO is crucial for keeping blood vessels relaxed and smooth; steroids often suppress it.​



5️⃣ → The heart works harder to push thicker blood through tighter arteries.​



How Tadalafil Counters Those Effects​


1️⃣ Improves Endothelial Function​


Tadalafil inhibits PDE5, which increases cyclic GMP — this boosts nitric oxide activity and helps blood vessels stay relaxed and flexible.
➡️ Steroids constrict vessels; tadalafil helps undo that.



2️⃣ Lowers Blood Pressure & Reduces Arterial Stiffness​


By improving vasodilation, tadalafil slightly lowers systolic and diastolic BP, easing workload on the heart and improving nutrient delivery to muscles.



3️⃣ Improves Lipid Profile (Indirectly)​


Tadalafil can increase HDL and improve insulin sensitivity, both of which protect the vascular system that steroids tend to harm.


4️⃣ Prevents Endothelial Damage from High RBC / Hematocrit​


More flexible, nitric-oxide-rich vessels handle thicker blood more safely.
➡️ This can reduce clot risk and support better circulation during and after the cycle.



5️⃣ Supports Heart Muscle Performance​


In clinical studies (especially in heart failure and pulmonary hypertension), tadalafil improves oxygen delivery, reduces pulmonary pressure, and enhances cardiac output.


This makes it particularly beneficial when your heart is under extra workload from enhanced muscle mass and androgens.

Why Low Daily Doses Work Best​


  • 2.5–5 mg/day keeps PDE5 activity suppressed consistently, maintaining steady vasodilation.
  • Avoids the blood pressure swings of “as-needed” use.
  • Enhances blood flow to all muscle tissue (including the heart) 24/7.






From studies tadalafil had:

  • 19% lower adjusted rates of MACE, including significantly lower rates of coronary revascularization and unstable angina
  • 44% lower mortality rates
 
ProTools said:
Support items:

HCG @ 250 once per week. For me it allows me to rebound easier
TUDCA for liver support
Milk Thistle for liver support
Omega 3.. joint support
KLOW... joint support.
Whole Psyllium Husk powder (got to make the poop!)

Heart Health:​

Tadalafil 2.5mg
L-Citrulline — 3–6 g/day
D3+K2
CoQ10

I know... Tadalafil for heart?? Yes. Here are the studies:

Journals Publication

Harvard.. 72,000 men studied

hims.com article


Chatgpt explains like this:

Steroids and Cardiovascular Stress​


Anabolic steroids (like testosterone, Dbol, Tbol, etc.) can negatively impact your heart and blood vessels by:


1️⃣ → Makes blood more viscous, raising blood pressure and strain on the heart.​



2️⃣ → Promotes plaque buildup and arterial stiffness.​



3️⃣ → From water retention and vasoconstriction.​



4️⃣ → NO is crucial for keeping blood vessels relaxed and smooth; steroids often suppress it.​



5️⃣ → The heart works harder to push thicker blood through tighter arteries.​



How Tadalafil Counters Those Effects​


1️⃣ Improves Endothelial Function​


Tadalafil inhibits PDE5, which increases cyclic GMP — this boosts nitric oxide activity and helps blood vessels stay relaxed and flexible.
➡️ Steroids constrict vessels; tadalafil helps undo that.



2️⃣ Lowers Blood Pressure & Reduces Arterial Stiffness​


By improving vasodilation, tadalafil slightly lowers systolic and diastolic BP, easing workload on the heart and improving nutrient delivery to muscles.



3️⃣ Improves Lipid Profile (Indirectly)​


Tadalafil can increase HDL and improve insulin sensitivity, both of which protect the vascular system that steroids tend to harm.


4️⃣ Prevents Endothelial Damage from High RBC / Hematocrit​


More flexible, nitric-oxide-rich vessels handle thicker blood more safely.
➡️ This can reduce clot risk and support better circulation during and after the cycle.



5️⃣ Supports Heart Muscle Performance​


In clinical studies (especially in heart failure and pulmonary hypertension), tadalafil improves oxygen delivery, reduces pulmonary pressure, and enhances cardiac output.


This makes it particularly beneficial when your heart is under extra workload from enhanced muscle mass and androgens.

Why Low Daily Doses Work Best​


  • 2.5–5 mg/day keeps PDE5 activity suppressed consistently, maintaining steady vasodilation.
  • Avoids the blood pressure swings of “as-needed” use.
  • Enhances blood flow to all muscle tissue (including the heart) 24/7.






From studies tadalafil had:

  • 19% lower adjusted rates of MACE, including significantly lower rates of coronary revascularization and unstable angina
  • 44% lower mortality rates
Click to expand...
It's true that Viagra and Cialis has heart benefits. @ProTools They were, after all, originally designed for that. So not a bad idea to include them in a cycle.
 
ProTools said:
It's my plan. I just entered the details and let it do the setting up. When I dropped the weight, I enter details that included what type of diet (carb cycling) my weight goals, the foods, the focus, the amount of lifting days, the splits.... etc. I let it do it's thing and print it out.

On this, I will adjust. I will not start with a calorie surplus in week one. I will add a surplus closer to 300 calories in week 2. And raise that by 250 calories per week based off what I see in the mirror and on the scale (I will weight daily). If I need more, I take in more. If all is well and I have the growth, I will keep adding 250 cals per week.

My goal is 190 with the understanding it will not all be fat free, 100% muscle growth. I do have clen and tren. Which brings me to ask a question.

I am thinking of prolonging my test cyp use after I'm done with the rest of the cycle. I'm thinking add tren on a calorie Maintenace with the test cyp to cut fat. Add Clen as needed. Thought
Click to expand...
@ProTools Well, think of it like this if you put on a bunch of mass, of course a percentage of that is going to be some body fat, but overall your body fat percentage could actually drop during that. So when you put it that way it's completely normal to put on some body fat when you gain a lot of weight.
 
ROIDDERS said:
@ProTools Well, think of it like this if you put on a bunch of mass, of course a percentage of that is going to be some body fat, but overall your body fat percentage could actually drop during that. So when you put it that way it's completely normal to put on some body fat when you gain a lot of weight.
Click to expand...
I'm game for that! Bring on 190 with sub 10%!
 
ProTools said:
It's my plan. I just entered the details and let it do the setting up. When I dropped the weight, I enter details that included what type of diet (carb cycling) my weight goals, the foods, the focus, the amount of lifting days, the splits.... etc. I let it do it's thing and print it out.

On this, I will adjust. I will not start with a calorie surplus in week one. I will add a surplus closer to 300 calories in week 2. And raise that by 250 calories per week based off what I see in the mirror and on the scale (I will weight daily). If I need more, I take in more. If all is well and I have the growth, I will keep adding 250 cals per week.

My goal is 190 with the understanding it will not all be fat free, 100% muscle growth. I do have clen and tren. Which brings me to ask a question.

I am thinking of prolonging my test cyp use after I'm done with the rest of the cycle. I'm thinking add tren on a calorie Maintenace with the test cyp to cut fat. Add Clen as needed. Thought
Click to expand...
You can extend the test cyp and add tren for a cut phase, but keep it mild and short since you’re already running gear.

Start tren E at 100-200 mg /week alongside your test cyp dose. Use clen only as needed, 20–40 mcg on training days, and avoid running both high tren and clen together to limit cardiac stress.
 
LevButlerov said:
You can extend the test cyp and add tren for a cut phase, but keep it mild and short since you’re already running gear.

Start tren E at 100-200 mg /week alongside your test cyp dose. Use clen only as needed, 20–40 mcg on training days, and avoid running both high tren and clen together to limit cardiac stress.
Click to expand...
Awesome to know
 
ProTools said:
I used tren A and clen on my cut. But as with this cycle... I used very small dosages
Click to expand...
You should repeat small doses again dont go high.
 
LevButlerov said:
very tasty and high protein there :D
Click to expand...
Man I'm set for this week. 1 chicken breast per day. Whole loin.... and pork strips. Cottage cheese...mmmm Brown rice... sweet potatoes...

Now I have to decide on my dosages to start tomorrow. I know I am going to divide up the dbol dosage to twice per day. On waking and before bed.

May do anavar like that too. Thoughts?
 
Day before 1st day back in gym. Here is an update. Please read it all.... feedback wanted

My Measurements: I will do this every sunday.

Biceps: 12.75"
Forearms: 11"
Chest: 41"
Waist: 35.25"
Hips: 35"
Upper Leg: 21"
Calf: 13.38"

Really need feedback on this thought. Am I missing anything?

Starting Mesterolone and Test Cyp today. Will add low dosage dol tomorrow (divided into 2 dosages). For this first week, I really think 5mgs divided into 2.5mg morning and evening is a good starting point. Tbol at 10mg per day. At the end of 2 weeks, I will take a look at increasing the the D/Tbol based off results. Since this is a 12 week cycle, I will cease the T/Dbol at the end of 4 weeks. Just use test for weeks 5 and 6. Starting back up t/dbol in week 7. At week 9, I will add var at 20mg per day (divided in 2 doses). Week 10 add Tren E @100mgs. Week 11, remove Dbol.

vs

My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.


REASONS for the possible Change:

- Reasons on the 2 week rest of dbol and tbol, to give the liver a break.
- I may not reach my goals using this low of a dosage. And it's why I came here.... feedback. I don't wear my feelings on my shirt.
 
ProTools said:
Man I'm set for this week. 1 chicken breast per day. Whole loin.... and pork strips. Cottage cheese...mmmm Brown rice... sweet potatoes...

Now I have to decide on my dosages to start tomorrow. I know I am going to divide up the dbol dosage to twice per day. On waking and before bed.

May do anavar like that too. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Anavar is a good idea but you need cycle support like n2guard there imo @ProTools
ProTools said:
Day before 1st day back in gym. Here is an update. Please read it all.... feedback wanted

My Measurements: I will do this every sunday.

Biceps: 12.75"
Forearms: 11"
Chest: 41"
Waist: 35.25"
Hips: 35"
Upper Leg: 21"
Calf: 13.38"

Really need feedback on this thought. Am I missing anything?

Starting Mesterolone and Test Cyp today. Will add low dosage dol tomorrow (divided into 2 dosages). For this first week, I really think 5mgs divided into 2.5mg morning and evening is a good starting point. Tbol at 10mg per day. At the end of 2 weeks, I will take a look at increasing the the D/Tbol based off results. Since this is a 12 week cycle, I will cease the T/Dbol at the end of 4 weeks. Just use test for weeks 5 and 6. Starting back up t/dbol in week 7. At week 9, I will add var at 20mg per day (divided in 2 doses). Week 10 add Tren E @100mgs. Week 11, remove Dbol.

vs

My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.


REASONS for the possible Change:

- Reasons on the 2 week rest of dbol and tbol, to give the liver a break.
- I may not reach my goals using this low of a dosage. And it's why I came here.... feedback. I don't wear my feelings on my shirt.
Click to expand...
The Oct to dec setup is the stronger layout. Keep Test Cyp at 250 mg per week and Proviron at 25 mg ed.

The slow Anavar pyramid from 10 mg up to 30 mg then tapering off is safe and effective, and adding Dbol at 5–10 mg daily for the last 4 weeks gives a final push I like that, but make sure you use cycle support ED. Skip the Tbol and Dbol rotation since it adds risk for no real gains.
 
ProTools said:
Day before 1st day back in gym. Here is an update. Please read it all.... feedback wanted

My Measurements: I will do this every sunday.

Biceps: 12.75"
Forearms: 11"
Chest: 41"
Waist: 35.25"
Hips: 35"
Upper Leg: 21"
Calf: 13.38"

Really need feedback on this thought. Am I missing anything?

Starting Mesterolone and Test Cyp today. Will add low dosage dol tomorrow (divided into 2 dosages). For this first week, I really think 5mgs divided into 2.5mg morning and evening is a good starting point. Tbol at 10mg per day. At the end of 2 weeks, I will take a look at increasing the the D/Tbol based off results. Since this is a 12 week cycle, I will cease the T/Dbol at the end of 4 weeks. Just use test for weeks 5 and 6. Starting back up t/dbol in week 7. At week 9, I will add var at 20mg per day (divided in 2 doses). Week 10 add Tren E @100mgs. Week 11, remove Dbol.

vs

My OCT to DEC 31st Cycle: If everything arrives on time.

-Test Cyp at 250 per week
- Proviron 25mgs per day the complete cycle
- Anavar at 10mgs per day starting week 2 and I will increase it by 5mgs each week until I reach 30mgs. Starting in week 8 I will begin lowering by 5mgs until PCT time.
- Dbol at 5mg per day starting week 6. Will increase to 10mgs in week 8. I will only run this 4 weeks.


REASONS for the possible Change:

- Reasons on the 2 week rest of dbol and tbol, to give the liver a break.
- I may not reach my goals using this low of a dosage. And it's why I came here.... feedback. I don't wear my feelings on my shirt.
Click to expand...
@ProTools the good thing about proviron is it is very minimally liver toxic. it isn't 17AA. however the dbol and var are
 
stevesmi said:
@ProTools the good thing about proviron is it is very minimally liver toxic. it isn't 17AA. however the dbol and var are
Click to expand...

I was just reading about overlapping issues with 17aa.

I was going very small dosages on the dbol and anavar rather than a larger dbol because of water weight. But it seems, unless I am missing something, I should be able to stack the 2 at low dosages and keep the toxicity lower.

Is my thinking wrong?
 
ProTools said:
I was just reading about overlapping issues with 17aa.

I was going very small dosages on the dbol and anavar rather than a larger dbol because of water weight. But it seems, unless I am missing something, I should be able to stack the 2 at low dosages and keep the toxicity lower.

Is my thinking wrong?
Click to expand...
you are correct. obviously avoid taking other drugs or alcohol and use your liver support
 
stevesmi said:
you are correct. obviously avoid taking other drugs or alcohol and use your liver support
Click to expand...
I have all of that.

Now in all seriousness, the big question I have is gains. I have never used Dbol, tbol. I'm still at 164 lbs and really would like to reach 190 and cut to 185 give or take a few pounds. provided my diet is right, and I assure you it will be, Can I get that 25lbs doing this?
 
ProTools said:
I have all of that.

Now in all seriousness, the big question I have is gains. I have never used Dbol, tbol. I'm still at 164 lbs and really would like to reach 190 and cut to 185 give or take a few pounds. provided my diet is right, and I assure you it will be, Can I get that 25lbs doing this?
Click to expand...
At this point I'm seeing more questions on PEds than diet. And without that being fixed the answer is no
 
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