Veteran Thread Bad Reviews and the Burden of Proof

[Freki]

The question arises as a community what standard of proof do we require to leave a bad review?

For Instance
The punter tries the same product from different venders 1 is not alike the others.
Let's say it's something like Tren with a distinct feeling and side effects. The Punter knows tren and what it feels like, they don't need anymore proof themselves he/she knows what the effects are and how their body has responded before.

Is this enough for the Punter to leave a bad review and seek recourse?

We don't need Vendors being accused willy nilly of poor products.

We also don't want poor venders and bad products in the community.

Punter could send for HLPC testing at high cost, this definitely helps the community, Punter is left further out of pocket.

Punter can leave a review and cop it from the venders supporters. I don't know if this helps the community?

Punter can say nothing, enjoy the other great venders available but the community is worse off.

We are lucky that things like testosterone and hgh will show at low cost in a blood test. The issue arises with peptides $300us and other oils $120us plus shipping that would need hlpc testing.

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[Allupfromhere]

This will be an interesting discussion in one way or another.

 

[Allupfromhere]

This will be an interesting discussion in one way or another.

I realise this comment doesn't help the community much lol.

It's a slight grey zone in my eyes. People should be able to post honest reviews positive or negative for the greater good and vendors should welcome these in a constructive way. On the other hand there are a lot of people review unfairly in reflection of what they may feel they're 'entitled to' and this isnt constructive at all for a vendor and is detrimental to a vendors reputation and detrimental to the next purchaser as they may be making a decision based on false or misleading information.

 

[Freki]

This will be an interesting discussion in one way or another.

Also big implications for venders who get caught out with hlpc tests, its straight to scammer list and kicked off EVO from what I understand

 

[Allupfromhere]

As for proof to base this off an individuals physical feeling these can be different from one person to the next. Like eating at a restaurant some people may really and the next person may not. Drugs effect everyone differently.

 

[Allupfromhere]

Also big implications for venders who get caught out with hlpc tests, its straight to scammer list and kicked off EVO from what I understand

Thats hard and would be needed to be kept in context. Instance if a vendor has had a series of hplc testing done and one or two compound have pulled up short and they publicise it to the community then commit to rectification then no way in my eyes should they be booted to the scammers list. Also what is to stop a disgruntled customer from tempering with a vial to sabotage a vendors reputation? It is all quite complicated.

At the end of they day up to the consumer to leave a review if they please and they are entitled to do so. If it doesn't get resolved the. Unfortunately just move on and the next person has to take the risk whether or not they will base there decision off the information brought to the table.

This is underground after all.

 

[Grumpy]

Personally I think reviews should be left freely BUT before any backlash to vendors as in being put on a scammer list or be publicly shamed for selling fake product there would need to be a collection of reviews from different people a general consensus

When it comes to peptides especially weight loss peptides there are people that seem to think running sema or reta or whatever is a magic pill and weight will fall off this is definitely untrue ( not saying this is the case in this situation) it takes work

Also running huge cycles and training your arse off puts on muscle so weight may stay the same or increase

Also think vendors should have the opportunity to defend their product weather it be testing or whatever

Just my 2 cents

 

[TeeGee]

Impressive write up brother... And a discussion which I'm sure will have very mixed opinions.

I myself believe in full transparency... I also believe constructive feedback is always healthy while it does tend to get out of hand at times but hey.. this is the internet.. we are all just a little bit tougher when talking via keyboard..

I think alot of things really depends upon the situation among other factors... The accountability of the blamed... Is there genuine care factor. Is it a honest oversight... Is health at risk..

Keen to see everyone's input here.. and fuck me bro this must have taken you a hot minute to tag all these members/vendors

 

[Allupfromhere]

Impressive write up brother... And a discussion which I'm sure will have very mixed opinions.

I myself believe in full transparency... I also believe constructive feedback is always healthy while it does tend to get out of hand at times but hey.. this is the internet.. we are all just a little bit tougher when talking via keyboard..

I think alot of things really depends upon the situation among other factors... The accountability of the blamed... Is there genuine care factor. Is it a honest oversight... Is health at risk..

Keen to see everyone's input here.. and fuck me bro this must have taken you a hot minute to tag all these members/vendors

Quick shout out to you brother you really are a genuine voice of reason in the Aussie community and this has positively displayed itself especially in recent discussions here on evo, an asset around these grounds brother

 

[Freki]

Impressive write up brother... And a discussion which I'm sure will have very mixed opinions.

I myself believe in full transparency... I also believe constructive feedback is always healthy while it does tend to get out of hand at times but hey.. this is the internet.. we are all just a little bit tougher when talking via keyboard..

I think alot of things really depends upon the situation among other factors... The accountability of the blamed... Is there genuine care factor. Is it a honest oversight... Is health at risk..

Keen to see everyone's input here.. and fuck me bro this must have taken you a hot minute to tag all these members/vendors

Copy and paste from eddy's trusted vender list. And just realised that means the man himself hasn't been tagged @Eddie Haskell

 

[TeeGee]

Quick shout out to you brother you really are a genuine voice of reason in the Aussie community and this has positively displayed itself especially in recent discussions here on evo, an asset around these grounds brother

Who me ???

Don't make me blush..

@Eddie Haskell Perhaps I need a title - TeeGee "the voice"

Awesome post by @Freki it's posts like this which our community need... Everyone has a different view and sometimes it's good to see the views of others because you may change your own after seeing things in a different light.

 

[Allupfromhere]

Awesome post by @Freki it's posts like this which our community need... Everyone has a different view and sometimes it's good to see the views of others because you may change your own after seeing things in a different light.

Couldn't agree more brother, im also glad @Freki Was daring enough to start the discussion as some clarity of opinions seems needed lately.
Keen to see some different points of view for sure.

@Eddie Haskell Perhaps I need a title - TeeGee "the voice"

Will chuckle if I see something alike next to your name soon

 

[Freki]

Also what is to stop a disgruntled customer from tempering with a vial to sabotage a vendors reputation? It is all quite complicated.

Thinking, it probably invalidates hlpc testing. On both the customers and vendors side. Hmmmm

Could you also then say the only way hlpc testing would hold weight is if it was somehow randomised?

This is excluding trust in community standing and reputation etc

 

[TeeGee]

Thinking, it probably invalidates hlpc testing. On both the customers and vendors side. Hmmmm

Could you also then say the only way hlpc testing would hold weight is if it was somehow randomised?

This is excluding trust in community standing and reputation etc

There are some trusted members who have done third party testing out of their own pockets..

@Ratatata done it. A solid & trusted member of Aussie community.. he was compensated by majority of the labs he tested to my knowledge which was an awesome outcome

 

[Allupfromhere]

Thinking, it probably invalidates hlpc testing. On both the customers and vendors side. Hmmmm

It definitely can be conflicting for both.

Could you also then say the only way hlpc testing would hold weight is if it was somehow randomised?

This would be a better outcome potentially but brings us to the next part.

This is excluding trust in community standing and reputation etc

Without this how could there be trust in the randomised process?

At some point a hplc testing would be conducted either from a reputable member or a person who isnt. I feel most members would find more trust in a reputable member of the evo community who has proven to be somewhat trustworthy and unbiased.

It will always be a decision based on a collection of reviews; positive and negative, true and false unfortunately. It will always pose a risk for the customer and also the vendor as it isnt something that can be completed controlled or policed.

It is underground after all.

 

[Allupfromhere]

The best scenario of testing for community benefit i have seen is when I think it was @Ratatata randomly had some vials tested. Completely unbiased with no connection to any of the vendors at the time off his own back. A heavy cost for him but a great benefit for the Aussie community here on evo.

 

[Grumpy]

The best scenario of testing for community benefit i have seen is when I think it was @Ratatata randomly had some vials tested. Completely unbiased with no connection to any of the vendors at the time off his own back. A heavy cost for him but a great benefit for the Aussie community here on evo.

Agree this is the best way random testing would be really good if we had a reliable testing source available in Australia

 

[Ratatata]

Punter can leave a review and cop it from the venders supporters. I don't know if this helps the community?

This is biggest reason many don’t report bad blood of underdosage gear. Everyone says they r here for community but if someone post negative report he will be trolled or abused for bringing it out. First he will be asked did you talk to vendor what did he say, obviously vendor will offer replacement vial or money refund. Under dosage gear is lack of trust and question on him being genuine. Y should he take replacement vial and if he take refund and bring report to community holly molly that’s end the abuse by vendor and there supporterWe have seen this before in multiple forum and happened to myself in other forum.

We are lucky that things like testosterone and hgh will show at low cost in a blood test. The issue arises with peptides $300us and other oils $120us plus shipping that would need hlpc testing.

Also we cannot assume blood test a 100% thing. It’s a good indicator but not 100% imo. I know person from this forum who gets total testosterone of 100 on 250mg per week and i have a mate who respond poor to testosterone total testosterone of 30 from 300mg per week. It also depends how many times a week they pin how many day after last shot they took blood. Many factor matters. Jst give u an example me and @TeeGee we used to 2-3 days a week shot kind of guy, than he moved to everyday shot. We were doing same vendor same batch oil delivered same time to us. We were doing similar mg i got result i expect but he got half of what he was getting while he was doing 2-3 days weekly shot. Oil was hplc tested by vendor, we were having mixed opinion what was going on and decided to blind test @TeeGee vial he was using and guess what hplc test came back spot on exactly same mg vendor provided to us.

Imo only way to tell if anything legit is hplc. If result comes back good it’s a win win for vendor and ine who sends for testing. But if result comes back poor sender will loose heftty out of pocket and big question what will happen to that dodgy vendor simple appology some bullshit reason and he will say product will go to bin blah blah and there will some clown like us who will be praising vendor for dealing situation so well and taking responsibility and fixing it. Another question did he really fix it???
Many of us who have been onto multiple forum knows the elder lab situation how many time his same product hplc tested came back bunk or jay jay anabolics every blind test his oil came back underdosage. Classic nexnos hplc test

 

[Allupfromhere]

Nail on the head @Ratatata

 

[Ratatata]

Thinking, it probably invalidates hlpc testing. On both the customers and vendors side. Hmmmm

Could you also then say the only way hlpc testing would hold weight is if it was somehow randomised?

This is excluding trust in community standing and reputation etc

It can be, one lab offered me to hplc test his batch as he got fresh mast raw, random hplc tested means big assurance for buyer, i declined the offer cuz i can’t be sure vial he sending to me will be exactly same vial he will send to buyer seeing how popular mast is right now.