Approved Log Fertility Log - 🍼 Operation Baby Cypher 🍼

[John Carmack]

I didn’t know that e2 played a part in LH release! This is interesting

What’s a decent way to not fully crash it but to bring it down? Just the nova / clomid? I’m young the dose for both of these starting from yesterday.

I can do bloods again earlier so we can all see if it’s working or not before pulling the trigger on TRT

seems to be a strong consensus that I’ll likely need TRT anyway

Its exteremely tricky to crash such low levels of E2. Because if you crash, YOU WILL FEEL LIKE SHIT and then there is not enough Free Test to produce more E2. You will be in a world of joint pains, mood disaster and what not. Thats why SERMS are used. It will trick the hypo to think there is not enough E2, good enough @Wolfenstein Will know how to tackle this, so listen to his advice

 

[OdinLabsRep]

Oh jeez! That’s a shocking testosterone score @CypherOCE

Sounds like you need some of the big man’s Test if the PCT doesn’t work for whatever reason!

Don’t stress we got your back regardless of the outcome

 

[LevButlerov]

I didn’t know that e2 played a part in LH release! This is interesting

What’s a decent way to not fully crash it but to bring it down? Just the nova / clomid? I’m young the dose for both of these starting from yesterday.

I can do bloods again earlier so we can all see if it’s working or not before pulling the trigger on TRT

seems to be a strong consensus that I’ll likely need TRT anyway

Crashing e2 is a horrible idea and the link between e2 and LH is broscience at best @John Carmack is making things up.

In your case, you need to get back on light TRT and push in HCG with clomid and a test booster with fadogia like hcgenerate.
That will get your kids 100%. without all this nonsense suffering. You don't need millions of sperm, you just need 1 LOL! @CypherOCE

 

[CypherOCE]

Finally got around to using the test kit for all those following along at home

Result we’re.. as expected. Low in all ranges which isn’t a total surprise.

As this is not surprising I’m not overly concerned just means this is the starting point and it can only get better!

Will retest again in a months time

 

[LevButlerov]

Finally got around to using the test kit for all those following along at home

Result we’re.. as expected. Low in all ranges which isn’t a total surprise.

View attachment 107892

View attachment 107893

As this is not surprising I’m not overly concerned just means this is the starting point and it can only get better!

Will retest again in a months time

@CypherOCE that actually doesn't mean much like 4.1 concentration means you still have a ton of boys swimming lol

 

[stevesmi]

Finally got around to using the test kit for all those following along at home

Result we’re.. as expected. Low in all ranges which isn’t a total surprise.

View attachment 107892

View attachment 107893

As this is not surprising I’m not overly concerned just means this is the starting point and it can only get better!

Will retest again in a months time

do you have a pic or link to that test or a name? is that something you bought online or was it something given to you by your doctor? @CypherOCE

 

[BodyMonster34]

Finally got around to using the test kit for all those following along at home

Result we’re.. as expected. Low in all ranges which isn’t a total surprise.

View attachment 107892

View attachment 107893

As this is not surprising I’m not overly concerned just means this is the starting point and it can only get better!

Will retest again in a months time

bro dayum. i'm not scientist but that look like you got low sperm. i'm a breeder man. i can give you one of my kids if you want @CypherOCE

 

[Mobster]

Finally got around to using the test kit for all those following along at home

Result we’re.. as expected. Low in all ranges which isn’t a total surprise.

View attachment 107892

View attachment 107893

As this is not surprising I’m not overly concerned just means this is the starting point and it can only get better!

Will retest again in a months time

Exactly my thoughts

 

[CypherOCE]

do you have a pic or link to that test or a name? is that something you bought online or was it something given to you by your doctor? @CypherOCE

It’s from a company called YoSperm it’s an at home testing kit

 

[Ulter]

It’s from a company called YoSperm it’s an at home testing kit

overall what do you think about these results besides they are low. do you plan on trying again in a month and seeing if you can get an improvement? @CypherOCE maybe change tactics

 

[ROIDDERS]

Finally got around to using the test kit for all those following along at home

Result we’re.. as expected. Low in all ranges which isn’t a total surprise.

View attachment 107892

View attachment 107893

As this is not surprising I’m not overly concerned just means this is the starting point and it can only get better!

Will retest again in a months time

Thank you for taking the time to post this. I think a lot of people will be able to learn from your experience here. Hopefully, you can get your sperm count higher. @CypherOCE

 

[stevesmi]

It’s from a company called YoSperm it’s an at home testing kit

good info

 

[CypherOCE]

Thank you for taking the time to post this. I think a lot of people will be able to learn from your experience here. Hopefully, you can get your sperm count higher. @CypherOCE

I hope so! Even if it only helps one person that’s better than nothing

I think we should see greater improvement around the two-three month mark if I’m being honest

 

[Noah Wixx]

@CypherOCE that actually doesn't mean much like 4.1 concentration means you still have a ton of boys swimming lol

Off to the races lol

 

[LevButlerov]

I hope so! Even if it only helps one person that’s better than nothing

I think we should see greater improvement around the two-three month mark if I’m being honest

I think many can learn from this

 

[ROIDDERS]

I hope so! Even if it only helps one person that’s better than nothing

I think we should see greater improvement around the two-three month mark if I’m being honest

yes sir 100%

 

[RoySimpson]

Finally got around to using the test kit for all those following along at home

Result we’re.. as expected. Low in all ranges which isn’t a total surprise.

View attachment 107892

View attachment 107893

As this is not surprising I’m not overly concerned just means this is the starting point and it can only get better!

Will retest again in a months time

@CypherOCE curious to know how accurate these home tests are!

 

[CypherOCE]

@CypherOCE curious to know how accurate these home tests are!

Fairly accurate I’d say!

Although probably not 100% but enough to get you in the ballpark of +\- 10%

 

[CypherOCE]

Weekly update time again

Weight: 82kg.

Notes: down again on weight which is fantastic @Wolfenstein reta is working amazingly. Lightest I’ve been in a long ass time.

Having a refeed today under the guidance of wolf - aiming to break the plateau and restore glycogen stores and keep the metabolism burning while trying to wriggle down to 80kg.

Feeling much better this week after doubling the PCT dosages. Still a little brain foggy and can’t remember names of things.

Morning wood is back which is usually a good sign my test levels are up from that dismal 1.7

Diet and training is still going well but I’ll be on nights for the next few weeks so I’ll have to readjust eating / training schedules but it should give me more time to add dedicated cardio before or after the weights.

Leaning up nicely (see below from this week) love handles basically gone, thinking I’m around 13/14% BF. given that if I lean back slightly I can see the abs

Anyway, this week has been a massive improvement in all aspects so I’m excited to keep pushing and striving for more.

 

[ballin2504]

Finally got around to using the test kit for all those following along at home

Result we’re.. as expected. Low in all ranges which isn’t a total surprise.

View attachment 107892

View attachment 107893

As this is not surprising I’m not overly concerned just means this is the starting point and it can only get better!

Will retest again in a months time

@cyperoce Im curious as to how you can build on this. Very interesting to see.

 

[LevButlerov]

Weekly update time again

Weight: 82kg.

Notes: down again on weight which is fantastic @Wolfenstein reta is working amazingly. Lightest I’ve been in a long ass time.

Having a refeed today under the guidance of wolf - aiming to break the plateau and restore glycogen stores and keep the metabolism burning while trying to wriggle down to 80kg.

Feeling much better this week after doubling the PCT dosages. Still a little brain foggy and can’t remember names of things.

Morning wood is back which is usually a good sign my test levels are up from that dismal 1.7

Diet and training is still going well but I’ll be on nights for the next few weeks so I’ll have to readjust eating / training schedules but it should give me more time to add dedicated cardio before or after the weights.

Leaning up nicely (see below from this week) love handles basically gone, thinking I’m around 13/14% BF. given that if I lean back slightly I can see the abs

Anyway, this week has been a massive improvement in all aspects so I’m excited to keep pushing and striving for more.

View attachment 108392

You look really lean @CypherOCE you pump in some secret TRT?

 

[CypherOCE]

You look really lean @CypherOCE you pump in some secret TRT?

I’m honestly tempted to but I’ll wait to see the next bloods

If they aren’t over 10+ I think I’ll have to resort to TRT as just PCT alone hasn’t worked as intended

Buttttt see how we go in two weeks

 

[toddthelineman]

Waiting to see how you do on retatrutide more broly @CypherOCE

on the methylene blue thats like serotonin syndrome if you over use and who knows how they dose it

I’ve tried a few different kinds of methylene blue. I never got much out of it, but I mistakenly took it when I had been taking trazadone (a serotonin drug) and it affected me psychologically. It was scary. I stopped both immediately and had cold shakes for a few days, not toooo serious, mostly uncomfortable. I have no use for methylene blue, but if you get uti symptoms it will make it go away. It did that for me

 

[CypherOCE]

I’ve tried a few different kinds of methylene blue. I never got much out of it, but I mistakenly took it when I had been taking trazadone (a serotonin drug) and it affected me psychologically. It was scary. I stopped both immediately and had cold shakes for a few days, not toooo serious, mostly uncomfortable. I have no use for methylene blue, but if you get uti symptoms it will make it go away. It did that for me

Different kinds? Not sure there are any available other than capsule form here.

I don’t take anything else so I’m not to bothered about unintentional side effects

 

[toddthelineman]

Different kinds? Not sure there are any available other than capsule form here.

I don’t take anything else so I’m not to bothered about unintentional side effects

Glad you like it. I thought it would help to share Since I didn’t even know it could do that. A lot of people really like it.

 

[LevButlerov]

I’m honestly tempted to but I’ll wait to see the next bloods

If they aren’t over 10+ I think I’ll have to resort to TRT as just PCT alone hasn’t worked as intended

Buttttt see how we go in two weeks

When are you next bloods?

 

[CypherOCE]

When are you next bloods?

Two weeks from today TRT to get them every time I have a day off work

 

[OdinLabsRep]

Weekly update time again

Weight: 82kg.

Notes: down again on weight which is fantastic @Wolfenstein reta is working amazingly. Lightest I’ve been in a long ass time.

Having a refeed today under the guidance of wolf - aiming to break the plateau and restore glycogen stores and keep the metabolism burning while trying to wriggle down to 80kg.

Feeling much better this week after doubling the PCT dosages. Still a little brain foggy and can’t remember names of things.

Morning wood is back which is usually a good sign my test levels are up from that dismal 1.7

Diet and training is still going well but I’ll be on nights for the next few weeks so I’ll have to readjust eating / training schedules but it should give me more time to add dedicated cardio before or after the weights.

Leaning up nicely (see below from this week) love handles basically gone, thinking I’m around 13/14% BF. given that if I lean back slightly I can see the abs

Anyway, this week has been a massive improvement in all aspects so I’m excited to keep pushing and striving for more.

View attachment 108392

Keep the efforts up Cypher! You’ll be back on the jooocey gains train sooner than you think

 

[LevButlerov]

Two weeks from today TRT to get them every time I have a day off work

2 weeks to TRT

 

[OdinLabsRep]

2 weeks to TRT

We’ve been trying to convince him he needs TRT with the HCG!

It will be a game changer for him

 

[LevButlerov]

We’ve been trying to convince him he needs TRT with the HCG!

It will be a game changer for him

TRT + HCG + Clomid + fadogia based test booster + hgh is his win @OdinLabsRep @CypherOCE

 

[Allupfromhere]

Alot to learn from this log brother and i feel it will be invaluable to some people that pass through and read who are in the same position. A brother for the people running a log like this, truly wishing you all the best in this journey of yours legend cant wait for the day to hear a baby cypher is on the way

 

[CypherOCE]

Abit of context for why I feel so rundown minus the low test

This is what my weeks usually look like low test is an absolute killer when your energy expenditure is like this

 

[LevButlerov]

Abit of context for why I feel so rundown minus the low test

View attachment 108855
This is what my weeks usually look like low test is an absolute killer when your energy expenditure is like this

You're getting some crazy amount of steps. Here I bet 60% of the population gets what you get in steps in about a month lol

 

[CypherOCE]

You're getting some crazy amount of steps. Here I bet 60% of the population gets what you get in steps in about a month lol

Hahaha maybe!

Im assuming you’re US based so that information is probably accurate

 

[LevButlerov]

Hahaha maybe!

Im assuming you’re US based so that information is probably accurate

US based yes lol

 

[25homes]

This is interesting

 

[CypherOCE]

Another week down and I’m feeling OKAY but not wonderful

I’ve got another set of bloods to do next Monday, so hopefully I’ll see some improvement on the previous round I’m sure I will.

I’m strongly leaning towards adding in test E as I’m currently down to 79kg. The weight loss with @Wolfenstein retatrutide has been nothing short of amazing.

Currently down 15kg from when I went on holidays to now.. roughly 11 weeks.

It’s worked so well I have to scale it back so I can eat more

So we’re thinking I’ll start to reverse out of the cut and slowly up the calories over the coming weeks.

Current dosages:

L-carnitine @ 400mcg ED
Clomid @ 50mcg ED
Nova @ 40mcg ED
HCG @ 500IU EOD
HMG @ 75IU every Tuesday and Thursday

Once I get the bloods we’ll see what needs to cb age but otherwise I’m really stoked with how things are progressing minus the crappy test score but I’m going to fix that.

 

[Wolfenstein]

Dr

Another week down and I’m feeling OKAY but not wonderful

I’ve got another set of bloods to do next Monday, so hopefully I’ll see some improvement on the previous round I’m sure I will.

I’m strongly leaning towards adding in test E as I’m currently down to 79kg. The weight loss with @Wolfenstein retatrutide has been nothing short of amazing.

Currently down 15kg from when I went on holidays to now.. roughly 11 weeks.

View attachment 110035

It’s worked so well I have to scale it back so I can eat more

So we’re thinking I’ll start to reverse out of the cut and slowly up the calories over the coming weeks.

Current dosages:

L-carnitine @ 400mcg ED
Clomid @ 50mcg ED
Nova @ 40mcg ED
HCG @ 500IU EOD
HMG @ 75IU every Tuesday and Thursday

Once I get the bloods we’ll see what needs to cb age but otherwise I’m really stoked with how things are progressing minus the crappy test score but I’m going to fix that.

it’s hard to believe you’ve got low t with a physique like that hahah you look great bro. Hopefully Mondays results are what we are expecting! Good luck brother

 

[LevButlerov]

Another week down and I’m feeling OKAY but not wonderful

I’ve got another set of bloods to do next Monday, so hopefully I’ll see some improvement on the previous round I’m sure I will.

I’m strongly leaning towards adding in test E as I’m currently down to 79kg. The weight loss with @Wolfenstein retatrutide has been nothing short of amazing.

Currently down 15kg from when I went on holidays to now.. roughly 11 weeks.

View attachment 110035

It’s worked so well I have to scale it back so I can eat more

So we’re thinking I’ll start to reverse out of the cut and slowly up the calories over the coming weeks.

Current dosages:

L-carnitine @ 400mcg ED
Clomid @ 50mcg ED
Nova @ 40mcg ED
HCG @ 500IU EOD
HMG @ 75IU every Tuesday and Thursday

Once I get the bloods we’ll see what needs to cb age but otherwise I’m really stoked with how things are progressing minus the crappy test score but I’m going to fix that.

You look good an lean but you are leaning to Test TRT, go for it, just low dose it. @CypherOCE

 

[Mobster]

That waist is tiny!

 

[stevesmi]

Another week down and I’m feeling OKAY but not wonderful

I’ve got another set of bloods to do next Monday, so hopefully I’ll see some improvement on the previous round I’m sure I will.

I’m strongly leaning towards adding in test E as I’m currently down to 79kg. The weight loss with @Wolfenstein retatrutide has been nothing short of amazing.

Currently down 15kg from when I went on holidays to now.. roughly 11 weeks.

View attachment 110035

It’s worked so well I have to scale it back so I can eat more

So we’re thinking I’ll start to reverse out of the cut and slowly up the calories over the coming weeks.

Current dosages:

L-carnitine @ 400mcg ED
Clomid @ 50mcg ED
Nova @ 40mcg ED
HCG @ 500IU EOD
HMG @ 75IU every Tuesday and Thursday

Once I get the bloods we’ll see what needs to cb age but otherwise I’m really stoked with how things are progressing minus the crappy test score but I’m going to fix that.

reta is really something great huh? easily the best drug ever invented for fat loss. nothing is close and the studies show it @CypherOCE

 

[BodyMonster34]

Another week down and I’m feeling OKAY but not wonderful

I’ve got another set of bloods to do next Monday, so hopefully I’ll see some improvement on the previous round I’m sure I will.

I’m strongly leaning towards adding in test E as I’m currently down to 79kg. The weight loss with @Wolfenstein retatrutide has been nothing short of amazing.

Currently down 15kg from when I went on holidays to now.. roughly 11 weeks.

View attachment 110035

It’s worked so well I have to scale it back so I can eat more

So we’re thinking I’ll start to reverse out of the cut and slowly up the calories over the coming weeks.

Current dosages:

L-carnitine @ 400mcg ED
Clomid @ 50mcg ED
Nova @ 40mcg ED
HCG @ 500IU EOD
HMG @ 75IU every Tuesday and Thursday

Once I get the bloods we’ll see what needs to cb age but otherwise I’m really stoked with how things are progressing minus the crappy test score but I’m going to fix that.

bro you looking lean @CypherOCE my offer still on table though. you can have one of my kids

 

[ceo]

Another week down and I’m feeling OKAY but not wonderful

I’ve got another set of bloods to do next Monday, so hopefully I’ll see some improvement on the previous round I’m sure I will.

I’m strongly leaning towards adding in test E as I’m currently down to 79kg. The weight loss with @Wolfenstein retatrutide has been nothing short of amazing.

Currently down 15kg from when I went on holidays to now.. roughly 11 weeks.

View attachment 110035

It’s worked so well I have to scale it back so I can eat more

So we’re thinking I’ll start to reverse out of the cut and slowly up the calories over the coming weeks.

Current dosages:

L-carnitine @ 400mcg ED
Clomid @ 50mcg ED
Nova @ 40mcg ED
HCG @ 500IU EOD
HMG @ 75IU every Tuesday and Thursday

Once I get the bloods we’ll see what needs to cb age but otherwise I’m really stoked with how things are progressing minus the crappy test score but I’m going to fix that.

@CypherOCE bros hopefully you get some more sperm action. can't wait to see if this protocol works. it will help others

 

[CypherOCE]

bro you looking lean @CypherOCE my offer still on table though. you can have one of my kids

Might have to take you up on that offer

 

[CypherOCE]

That waist is tiny!

Dropped from a 32 to a 28

 

[2Thick]

Another week down and I’m feeling OKAY but not wonderful

I’ve got another set of bloods to do next Monday, so hopefully I’ll see some improvement on the previous round I’m sure I will.

I’m strongly leaning towards adding in test E as I’m currently down to 79kg. The weight loss with @Wolfenstein retatrutide has been nothing short of amazing.

Currently down 15kg from when I went on holidays to now.. roughly 11 weeks.

View attachment 110035

It’s worked so well I have to scale it back so I can eat more

So we’re thinking I’ll start to reverse out of the cut and slowly up the calories over the coming weeks.

Current dosages:

L-carnitine @ 400mcg ED
Clomid @ 50mcg ED
Nova @ 40mcg ED
HCG @ 500IU EOD
HMG @ 75IU every Tuesday and Thursday

Once I get the bloods we’ll see what needs to cb age but otherwise I’m really stoked with how things are progressing minus the crappy test score but I’m going to fix that.

@CypherOCE good update man. you are doing what you need to do to continue on this path. if this doesn't work then nothing will

 

[Ulter]

Another week down and I’m feeling OKAY but not wonderful

I’ve got another set of bloods to do next Monday, so hopefully I’ll see some improvement on the previous round I’m sure I will.

I’m strongly leaning towards adding in test E as I’m currently down to 79kg. The weight loss with @Wolfenstein retatrutide has been nothing short of amazing.

Currently down 15kg from when I went on holidays to now.. roughly 11 weeks.

View attachment 110035

It’s worked so well I have to scale it back so I can eat more

So we’re thinking I’ll start to reverse out of the cut and slowly up the calories over the coming weeks.

Current dosages:

L-carnitine @ 400mcg ED
Clomid @ 50mcg ED
Nova @ 40mcg ED
HCG @ 500IU EOD
HMG @ 75IU every Tuesday and Thursday

Once I get the bloods we’ll see what needs to cb age but otherwise I’m really stoked with how things are progressing minus the crappy test score but I’m going to fix that.

this one is looking like a good update. i am looking forward to the bloods. i want to see the sperm count @CypherOCE

 

[ROIDDERS]

Another week down and I’m feeling OKAY but not wonderful

I’ve got another set of bloods to do next Monday, so hopefully I’ll see some improvement on the previous round I’m sure I will.

I’m strongly leaning towards adding in test E as I’m currently down to 79kg. The weight loss with @Wolfenstein retatrutide has been nothing short of amazing.

Currently down 15kg from when I went on holidays to now.. roughly 11 weeks.

View attachment 110035

It’s worked so well I have to scale it back so I can eat more

So we’re thinking I’ll start to reverse out of the cut and slowly up the calories over the coming weeks.

Current dosages:

L-carnitine @ 400mcg ED
Clomid @ 50mcg ED
Nova @ 40mcg ED
HCG @ 500IU EOD
HMG @ 75IU every Tuesday and Thursday

Once I get the bloods we’ll see what needs to cb age but otherwise I’m really stoked with how things are progressing minus the crappy test score but I’m going to fix that.

@CypherOCE great job on this one! the drugs are you putting together are on point. very proud of you!

 

[toddthelineman]

Might have to take you up on that offer

How long have you been at this @CypherOCE ? Nine weeks? You can feel the hcg working right? When I take hcg my balls start aching in a day or two and then they double in size, at least. Happens quick, but I used hcg for almost my entire four years of using testosterone. I get noticeably more semen almost right away. I never did a sperm test though. I’m just curious if you are getting these effects as well. I’ve listened to and read a decent amount of material on the topic. Some professionals say that fertility is possible for the vast majority of “permanently shut down” PED users, but that it can take much longer for some. Were you “on” for a very long time?

 

[LevButlerov]

How long have you been at this @CypherOCE ? Nine weeks? You can feel the hcg working right? When I take hcg my balls start aching in a day or two and then they double in size, at least. Happens quick, but I used hcg for almost my entire four years of using testosterone. I get noticeably more semen almost right away. I never did a sperm test though. I’m just curious if you are getting these effects as well. I’ve listened to and read a decent amount of material on the topic. Some professionals say that fertility is possible for the vast majority of “permanently shut down” PED users, but that it can take much longer for some. Were you “on” for a very long time?

Its relative for users, HCG can cause real negative estrogenic feedback for some and others are fine, genetics and leydig cells play a big role.

 

[CypherOCE]

How long have you been at this @CypherOCE ? Nine weeks? You can feel the hcg working right? When I take hcg my balls start aching in a day or two and then they double in size, at least. Happens quick, but I used hcg for almost my entire four years of using testosterone. I get noticeably more semen almost right away. I never did a sperm test though. I’m just curious if you are getting these effects as well. I’ve listened to and read a decent amount of material on the topic. Some professionals say that fertility is possible for the vast majority of “permanently shut down” PED users, but that it can take much longer for some. Were you “on” for a very long time?

I wouldn’t say straight away but certainly after a week it’s noticeable

I definitely wouldn’t be using it all the time while running cycles, you’ll ruin your bodies response to it blunting it and making fertility for you down the track that much harder

Short bursts of 3-6 months tops with HCG or HMG from what I’ve read literature wise

Fertility wise.. I’m hoping I’ll be fine but who knows I was only taking stuff for 16 ish months roughly so if I’m firing again by December that’s more than fine with me

 

[RoySimpson]

Another week down and I’m feeling OKAY but not wonderful

I’ve got another set of bloods to do next Monday, so hopefully I’ll see some improvement on the previous round I’m sure I will.

I’m strongly leaning towards adding in test E as I’m currently down to 79kg. The weight loss with @Wolfenstein retatrutide has been nothing short of amazing.

Currently down 15kg from when I went on holidays to now.. roughly 11 weeks.

View attachment 110035

It’s worked so well I have to scale it back so I can eat more

So we’re thinking I’ll start to reverse out of the cut and slowly up the calories over the coming weeks.

Current dosages:

L-carnitine @ 400mcg ED
Clomid @ 50mcg ED
Nova @ 40mcg ED
HCG @ 500IU EOD
HMG @ 75IU every Tuesday and Thursday

Once I get the bloods we’ll see what needs to cb age but otherwise I’m really stoked with how things are progressing minus the crappy test score but I’m going to fix that.

@CypherOCE looking lean bro! Hope bloods go smooth!

 

[toddthelineman]

I wouldn’t say straight away but certainly after a week it’s noticeable

I definitely wouldn’t be using it all the time while running cycles, you’ll ruin your bodies response to it blunting it and making fertility for you down the track that much harder

Short bursts of 3-6 months tops with HCG or HMG from what I’ve read literature wise

Fertility wise.. I’m hoping I’ll be fine but who knows I was only taking stuff for 16 ish months roughly so if I’m firing again by December that’s more than fine with me

You’re a hero for making this log man. This is like a legit case study.

 

[CypherOCE]

You’re a hero for making this log man. This is like a legit case study.

I hope it can serve as a helpful guide for those wanting kids after cycles

If it works I’ll be over the moon haha

 

[toddthelineman]

I hope it can serve as a helpful guide for those wanting kids after cycles

If it works I’ll be over the moon haha

It’s got to work! Most every me Olympia has kids. There’s got to be a way

 

[BodyMonster34]

Might have to take you up on that offer

bro my wife smoked heavily while pregnant and did hooch and gave birth to healthy child. you want that one? it got 3 eyes

 

[CypherOCE]

bro my wife smoked heavily while pregnant and did hooch and gave birth to healthy child. you want that one? it got 3 eyes

You’re too funny

 

[Noah Wixx]

Another week down and I’m feeling OKAY but not wonderful

I’ve got another set of bloods to do next Monday, so hopefully I’ll see some improvement on the previous round I’m sure I will.

I’m strongly leaning towards adding in test E as I’m currently down to 79kg. The weight loss with @Wolfenstein retatrutide has been nothing short of amazing.

Currently down 15kg from when I went on holidays to now.. roughly 11 weeks.

View attachment 110035

It’s worked so well I have to scale it back so I can eat more

So we’re thinking I’ll start to reverse out of the cut and slowly up the calories over the coming weeks.

Current dosages:

L-carnitine @ 400mcg ED
Clomid @ 50mcg ED
Nova @ 40mcg ED
HCG @ 500IU EOD
HMG @ 75IU every Tuesday and Thursday

Once I get the bloods we’ll see what needs to cb age but otherwise I’m really stoked with how things are progressing minus the crappy test score but I’m going to fix that.

We've all been there man not feeling our best ive had cycles like that before, you will get through it.

 

[BodyMonster34]

You’re too funny

bros i can drop him off to you at door of your trailer

 

[ballin2504]

Another week down and I’m feeling OKAY but not wonderful

I’ve got another set of bloods to do next Monday, so hopefully I’ll see some improvement on the previous round I’m sure I will.

I’m strongly leaning towards adding in test E as I’m currently down to 79kg. The weight loss with @Wolfenstein retatrutide has been nothing short of amazing.

Currently down 15kg from when I went on holidays to now.. roughly 11 weeks.

View attachment 110035

It’s worked so well I have to scale it back so I can eat more

So we’re thinking I’ll start to reverse out of the cut and slowly up the calories over the coming weeks.

Current dosages:

L-carnitine @ 400mcg ED
Clomid @ 50mcg ED
Nova @ 40mcg ED
HCG @ 500IU EOD
HMG @ 75IU every Tuesday and Thursday

Once I get the bloods we’ll see what needs to cb age but otherwise I’m really stoked with how things are progressing minus the crappy test score but I’m going to fix that.

@cyperoce definitely looking leaner man. The abs are popping

 

[OdinLabsRep]

Brother

You are absolutely killing it! Can't wait for you to show them your next update!

 

[CypherOCE]

Week 4 of the fertility grind (I think )

Everything is still the same but this month ill be upping the HCG dose pending on getting bloods back tomorrow.

Everything else has been tracking really well. Still losing weight but I have cut back the retateutide amount to 1mg weekly split into 0.5ml doses.

Current weight: 79.4kg

Seems to do the trick for the benefits I'm chasing and weight is still coming off albeit a little slower which is fine by me

Took the last couple of training to fully rest and recover before the bloods so they aren't skewed like last time, so, hopefully everything should be all good!

 

[Allupfromhere]

Week 4 of the fertility grind (I think )

Everything is still the same but this month ill be upping the HCG dose lending on getting bloods back tomorrow.

Everything else has been tracking really well. Still losing weight but I have cut back the retateutide amount to 1mg weekly split into 0.5ml doses.

Current weight: 79.4kg

Seems to do the trick for the benefits I'm chasing and weight is still coming off albeit a little slower which is fine by me

View attachment 111868

Took the last couple of training to fully rest and recover before the bloods so they aren't skewed like last time, so, hopefully everything should be all good!

Fuck brother wow you cut it up bigggg timee

 

[CypherOCE]

Fuck brother wow you cut it up bigggg timee

Reta and limited calories haha never expected it to melt off me like it did so quickly but feeling much happier with how I'm looking now

Just need to fill out properly

 

[CypherOCE]

Disappointing LH and FSH results from today's blood test. I guess I expected them to be higher but I'm only running a small amount of HCG so that's probably why.

Plan moving forward 3000IU of HCG weekly

Test and free test have returned to range but I don't feel much better anyway

 

[LevButlerov]

Disappointing LH and FSH results from today's blood test. I guess I expected them to be higher but I'm only running a small amount of HCG so that's probably why.

View attachment 111889

Plan moving forward 3000IU of HCG weekly

Test and free test have returned to range but I don't feel much better anyway

View attachment 111888

Sad but a fact of life, recovering takes a long long time. I was talking to another member the other day about his post PCT same issue as you really. But you don't need to worry about LH FSH to have kids, citing every IFBB pro with kids lol @CypherOCE why not just try now?

 

[stevesmi]

Disappointing LH and FSH results from today's blood test. I guess I expected them to be higher but I'm only running a small amount of HCG so that's probably why.

View attachment 111889

Plan moving forward 3000IU of HCG weekly

Test and free test have returned to range but I don't feel much better anyway

View attachment 111888

well i hate to give you the bad news man and 95% of people on the internet will not understand me saying this but listen to me closely on this.

hcg DOES NOT increase LH and FSH. it DECREASES THEM. now why would that be? its because it MIMICS those pituitargy gland hormones so it will signal your pituitary glands to SLOW DOWN production.

i've known this for 15 years because just like you i ran bloods while on hcg and saw the same thing happen. at the time nobody undrestood that so i started to tell people the truth. but because people out there get their information from fake gurus they still believe that hcg increases lh and fsh, when it doesn't and why hcg is really dumb to use in pct. and i don't recommend it for fertility UNLESS its a last ditch resort.

 

[Mobster]

Stevesmi has covered the uselessness of HCG a bunch of times. I've NEVER used it

 

[CypherOCE]

well i hate to give you the bad news man and 95% of people on the internet will not understand me saying this but listen to me closely on this.

hcg DOES NOT increase LH and FSH. it DECREASES THEM. now why would that be? its because it MIMICS those pituitargy gland hormones so it will signal your pituitary glands to SLOW DOWN production.

i've known this for 15 years because just like you i ran bloods while on hcg and saw the same thing happen. at the time nobody undrestood that so i started to tell people the truth. but because people out there get their information from fake gurus they still believe that hcg increases lh and fsh, when it doesn't and why hcg is really dumb to use in pct. and i don't recommend it for fertility UNLESS its a last ditch resort.

Stevesmi has covered the uselessness of HCG a bunch of times. I've NEVER used it

Every notable doctor, these being endocrinologists would beg to disagree with both of you.

This also goes for the numerous amounts of scientific literature stating the OPPOSITE of your opinions on the use of HCG.

Now you can have your opinions but when a Dr has given the direction for using something to facilitate a process i’d trust what he says over someone on the internet who doesn't have a medical degree nor practiced in the fertility space.

Further to the above, I have used a similar method previously and it has worked as expected.

Given that I've been “ON” longer than last time I did the protocol I'd expect the process to be a lot slower this time around

 

[stevesmi]

Every notable doctor, these being endocrinologists would beg to disagree with both of you.

This also goes for the numerous amounts of scientific literature stating the OPPOSITE of your opinions on the use of HCG.

Now you can have your opinions but when a Dr has given the direction for using something to facilitate a process i’d trust what he says over someone on the internet who doesn't have a medical degree nor practiced in the fertility space.

Further to the above, I have used a similar method previously and it has worked as expected.

View attachment 112032

Given that I've been “ON” longer than last time I did the protocol I'd expect the process to be a lot slower this time around

Everything I said above is backed by science and real doctors. It’s not opinion. Also I never said it was useless cause It has a purpose. It will wake up leydig cells by mimicking LH. But it does suppress pituitary glands which is why most people should not go near it especially in pct.

Your LH is supposed to drop on hcg. So ur bloods are normal. When it went up were you on serms? Serms cause a raise in lh cause they block estrogen from feedbacking into the pituitary glands. I was merely letting you know the bloods were normal on hcg and don’t believe the anti aging businessmen or fake online gurus who tell you otherwise

Now does hcg work for male fertility. Maybe . But it was never approved for that purpose. Nothing has otherwise the company would make billions considering male fertility is dropping like a rock in the first world. The only stack that has fertility promise in studies is clomid and vitamin E. Hcg was never actually found to work on male fertility is actual non biased studies but a lot of guys swear by it and have had success so it could work in the right circumstance. But what it does do well is mimic hormones to wake up ur leydig cells and make ur nuts bigger giving people the impression that it is doing something. This is why guys like rich piana used to push it without truly understanding what it does.

Let me explain it another way. Let’s say you are in between cycles and decide to boost ur test levels and you take testosterone. Your test levels rise but are your actual test levels really going up? Ur own natural test levels will crash of course. But to someone like rich piana they will look at this and say hey it’s a great idea to inject testosterone between cycles ! And yes people believed this before

We live in bizzaroland sometimes in bodybuilding. We listen to the person with the biggest muscles . And we listen to the pretend doctors and businessmen who run clinics over real doctors. And it blunts progress and success. Which is probably what they want. Hcg is a perfect example of something with so much misinformation tied to it for the simple fact it is so profitable to sell. In reality the benefits are not that great. It is synthesized pregnant female urine after all which is pretty easy to source lol

my advice is stick to the protocol here. but track yoru FERTILITY numbers. not your LH. cause hcg will NOT boost lh, but hopefully you get a bounce in fertility

 

[BodyMonster34]

Disappointing LH and FSH results from today's blood test. I guess I expected them to be higher but I'm only running a small amount of HCG so that's probably why.

View attachment 111889

Plan moving forward 3000IU of HCG weekly

Test and free test have returned to range but I don't feel much better anyway

View attachment 111888

bro good news it take only 1 sperm. i been on gear for a long time. and i still making babies (i think they mine). unless my wife ridin cowboy neighbor while i out of town on tanker lol @CypherOCE

 

[CypherOCE]

Everything I said above is backed by science and real doctors. It’s not opinion. Also I never said it was useless cause It has a purpose. It will wake up leydig cells by mimicking LH. But it does suppress pituitary glands which is why most people should not go near it especially in pct.

Your LH is supposed to drop on hcg. So ur bloods are normal. When it went up were you on serms? Serms cause a raise in lh cause they block estrogen from feedbacking into the pituitary glands. I was merely letting you know the bloods were normal on hcg and don’t believe the anti aging businessmen or fake online gurus who tell you otherwise

Now does hcg work for male fertility. Maybe . But it was never approved for that purpose. Nothing has otherwise the company would make billions considering male fertility is dropping like a rock in the first world. The only stack that has fertility promise in studies is clomid and vitamin E. Hcg was never actually found to work on male fertility is actual non biased studies but a lot of guys swear by it and have had success so it could work in the right circumstance. But what it does do well is mimic hormones to wake up ur leydig cells and make ur nuts bigger giving people the impression that it is doing something. This is why guys like rich piana used to push it without truly understanding what it does.

Let me explain it another way. Let’s say you are in between cycles and decide to boost ur test levels and you take testosterone. Your test levels rise but are your actual test levels really going up? Ur own natural test levels will crash of course. But to someone like rich piana they will look at this and say hey it’s a great idea to inject testosterone between cycles ! And yes people believed this before

We live in bizzaroland sometimes in bodybuilding. We listen to the person with the biggest muscles . And we listen to the pretend doctors and businessmen who run clinics over real doctors. And it blunts progress and success. Which is probably what they want. Hcg is a perfect example of something with so much misinformation tied to it for the simple fact it is so profitable to sell. In reality the benefits are not that great. It is synthesized pregnant female urine after all which is pretty easy to source lol

my advice is stick to the protocol here. but track yoru FERTILITY numbers. not your LH. cause hcg will NOT boost lh, but hopefully you get a bounce in fertility

Perhaps I misunderstood your words sorry

Stressful times but no excuse shouldn’t have been so snappy about it. Just annoyed with things

I’m not terribly fussed on the levels.. well I am but more so the sperm motility etc that’s the only part that actually matters

 

[Mobster]

Every notable doctor, these being endocrinologists would beg to disagree with both of you.

This also goes for the numerous amounts of scientific literature stating the OPPOSITE of your opinions on the use of HCG.

Now you can have your opinions but when a Dr has given the direction for using something to facilitate a process i’d trust what he says over someone on the internet who doesn't have a medical degree nor practiced in the fertility space.

Further to the above, I have used a similar method previously and it has worked as expected.

View attachment 112032

Given that I've been “ON” longer than last time I did the protocol I'd expect the process to be a lot slower this time around

 

[stevesmi]

Perhaps I misunderstood your words sorry

Stressful times but no excuse shouldn’t have been so snappy about it. Just annoyed with things

I’m not terribly fussed on the levels.. well I am but more so the sperm motility etc that’s the only part that actually matters

true on all points. the main objective on here is to help learn from each other. i would like to see your sperm count to see if you are progressing in the right direction or no. if no then we need to maybe make some
changes

the huge misconception i hear from people on hcg is "my balls are getting bigger so i am recovering" and its just not an accurate way to tell. especially hcg has a negative effect on the pituitary glands. rich piana used to always tell people to use hcg in pct because he experienced that and thought it meant he was recovering and he wasn't. if he got bloods he would have see his LH was near 0 even while his balls got bigger on hcg

 

[Mobster]

Not to be too much of an ass (if just a little bit) and for the subject of debate (BTW we included this thread in a show we recorded today) let me make a few points

You said ''
Every notable doctor, these being endocrinologists would beg to disagree with both of you.

This also goes for the numerous amounts of scientific literature stating the OPPOSITE of your opinions on the use of HCG.''

This when you just posted how your numbers were off. So, to be clear, having taken advice of one (??) or two (??) docs it, to date, hasn't proven effective.

As we state on the show (and in others we've done on the subject) fertility and specifically sperm counts are down generationally compared to 50 or so years ago. Meaning our daddy, grand daddy and great grand daddy were all 'better' than we were on those measures - in what we call the developed countries. Multiple reasons which include pollution, poor diets, leaving kids til later (careers etc), stress and so on. Hard to imagine how grand dad living through the depression and wars was more fertile but there you are.

Then we have the simple fact that your thread is on a PED forum. So not only are we worse off like the average man in the street we double down by using steroids. We KNOW, zero argument from anyone, that using anabolics affects our fertility and specifically test production and sperm counts. But hey we pin anyway and hope for the best. In that you're not at all uncommon. I've stated many times it's an issue. Makes NO ODDS to me at all. I waited until age 37 and was already a daddy. I'm 61 now, with 3 grand kids. The GF wont be having kids so I don't care. But many do.

Now as to the lack of a qualification. No room for debate there. I do have some but not the ones you mention. But equally, as do you AND those experts I DO have access to the same information. I've been alive and online to see how common this issue has become. The use and rise of the use of PEDs. The literal pain, discomfort and emotional stress SOME go through (not to mention the cost) with IVF. Even the more forward thinking who got their sperm frozen still get stressed.

When we post comments and especially when we do the shows we base a LOT of the things we say on FACT, a fair bit is 'what we've seen and heard' aka experience and some (and it is some) straight up opinion.

One issue, which I mentioned today on the show, is 'research'. Most people throw that out there when they mean 'I googled it'. Look at the 'covid' debate for an example. The issue can be that the algorithm will then follow up by giving you more of what you looked at and liked vs a balanced view. Here's an edited example (emphasis and comments mine):

1. Fertility:

• Stimulating Sperm Production:
  HCG is a hormone that mimics luteinizing hormone (LH), which stimulates the testicles to produce testosterone and, importantly, sperm.
  
  It's LH which does. HCG MIMICS it. But if I was searching for an answer I MIGHT misinterpret it

2. Testosterone Replacement Therapy:

• Maintaining Intratesticular Testosterone:
  When men use TRT, it can suppress the body's natural production of testosterone, including in the testicles. HCG can help maintain intra-testicular testosterone levels, potentially preserving fertility during TRT.
  
  Key word here is POTENTIALLY. It's not a given
  
  
  
• Potentially Reducing Side Effects:
  By maintaining intratesticular testosterone, HCG may also help reduce some of the potential side effects of TRT, such as testicular atrophy.
  Pretty much everyone agrees it plumps the balls. But, as we know, it's being on cycle AND TRT (worse with cruising as I've said often)

3. Other Potential Uses:

• Hypogonadism Treatment:
  HCG monotherapy can be an option for men with hypogonadism (low testosterone) who don't desire fertility or have initial testosterone levels below a certain threshold.
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  Note 'who don't desire fertility'. Of course 'mono' here means run solo. Meaning it doesn't do much, as I read it, solo. No one argues the potential benefits of Clomid. And OTHER therapies in combination.
  
  
  The issue here is too many ignore fertility until that bus has left and isn't coming back. Then cross their fingers and hope. That in and of itself, as you've implied in your reply to stevesmi, is a stress in and of itself. But it's OUR fault. We could have ate better, lived somewhere else, thought about health more and so on.
  
  Keep an eye open for the show.
  
  
  

 

[ceo]

bros yo numbers are where they should be. you could drop the hcg and increase clomid if you want LH higher. but if you keep hcg in there it gonna confuse pituitary glands @CypherOCE

 

[ROIDDERS]

Every notable doctor, these being endocrinologists would beg to disagree with both of you.

This also goes for the numerous amounts of scientific literature stating the OPPOSITE of your opinions on the use of HCG.

Now you can have your opinions but when a Dr has given the direction for using something to facilitate a process i’d trust what he says over someone on the internet who doesn't have a medical degree nor practiced in the fertility space.

Further to the above, I have used a similar method previously and it has worked as expected.

View attachment 112032

Given that I've been “ON” longer than last time I did the protocol I'd expect the process to be a lot slower this time around

I think Steve summed it up above. there is nothing abnormal here. your numbers look normal. you are on both clomid and hcg/hmg. so they will sort of offset each other @CypherOCE

 

[2Thick]

Disappointing LH and FSH results from today's blood test. I guess I expected them to be higher but I'm only running a small amount of HCG so that's probably why.

View attachment 111889

Plan moving forward 3000IU of HCG weekly

Test and free test have returned to range but I don't feel much better anyway

View attachment 111888

you need to get your sperm tested. that is what we need to see. that is the key to having a baby @CypherOCE

 

[Ulter]

Disappointing LH and FSH results from today's blood test. I guess I expected them to be higher but I'm only running a small amount of HCG so that's probably why.

View attachment 111889

Plan moving forward 3000IU of HCG weekly

Test and free test have returned to range but I don't feel much better anyway

View attachment 111888

if you want higher LH and FSH you need to run nolva and clomid and drop hcg. hcg works against you here @CypherOCE

 

[texas.redneck]

Stevesmi has covered the uselessness of HCG a bunch of times. I've NEVER used it

@CypherOCE

@stevesmi and me have been having some side discussion of this related to HCG in my cycle. Has your doctor mentioned anything about this drug called Gonadorelin? That's what the nurse practitioner at my TRT clinic preferred. She said it's superior to HCG. I looked into Gonadorelin, and it actually stimulates your pituitary to make the LH instead of mimicking LH and shutting down your pituitary.

Might be something worth looking into. Like maybe this is new tech and so potentially that "every notable doctor..." thing is dated. Most doctors aren't known for keeping up on current trends.

 

[LevButlerov]

@CypherOCE

@stevesmi and me have been having some side discussion of this related to HCG in my cycle. Has your doctor mentioned anything about this drug called Gonadorelin? That's what the nurse practitioner at my TRT clinic preferred. She said it's superior to HCG. I looked into Gonadorelin, and it actually stimulates your pituitary to make the LH instead of mimicking LH and shutting down your pituitary.

Might be something worth looking into. Like maybe this is new tech and so potentially that "every notable doctor..." thing is dated. Most doctors aren't known for keeping up on current trends.

@texas.redneck Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) acts like luteinizing hormone straight up so it tells your testes to crank out testosterone right away. Gonadorelin is a gonadotropin releasing hormone so it tells your pituitary to release LH and FSH which then tells your balls what to do, more upstream. HCG is more like a shortcut that bypasses the brain while gonadorelin keeps the whole system engaged. Both can be used for similar goals but they work on different parts of the chain. If he can't get his system going with HCG, I would doubt results with Gonadorelin.

 

[texas.redneck]

@texas.redneck Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) acts like luteinizing hormone straight up so it tells your testes to crank out testosterone right away. Gonadorelin is a gonadotropin releasing hormone so it tells your pituitary to release LH and FSH which then tells your balls what to do, more upstream. HCG is more like a shortcut that bypasses the brain while gonadorelin keeps the whole system engaged. Both can be used for similar goals but they work on different parts of the chain. If he can't get his system going with HCG, I would doubt results with Gonadorelin.

I see what you mean. The problem is not the pituitary making LH. Whether it’s artificial or natural LH, The problem is the LH is not making the testes do what they are supposed to do

 

[LevButlerov]

I see what you mean. The problem is not the pituitary making LH. Whether it’s artificial or natural LH, The problem is the LH is not making the testes do what they are supposed to do

@texas.redneck I think he @CypherOCE has a deeper issue which we aren't even seeing here due to the limitations of what we know.

I told him before, his best bet is to either go on TRT and pump in HCG with fadogia test booster, or just do in-vitro fertilization.

 

[CypherOCE]

Everything I said above is backed by science and real doctors. It’s not opinion. Also I never said it was useless cause It has a purpose. It will wake up leydig cells by mimicking LH. But it does suppress pituitary glands which is why most people should not go near it especially in pct.

Your LH is supposed to drop on hcg. So ur bloods are normal. When it went up were you on serms? Serms cause a raise in lh cause they block estrogen from feedbacking into the pituitary glands. I was merely letting you know the bloods were normal on hcg and don’t believe the anti aging businessmen or fake online gurus who tell you otherwise

Now does hcg work for male fertility. Maybe . But it was never approved for that purpose. Nothing has otherwise the company would make billions considering male fertility is dropping like a rock in the first world. The only stack that has fertility promise in studies is clomid and vitamin E. Hcg was never actually found to work on male fertility is actual non biased studies but a lot of guys swear by it and have had success so it could work in the right circumstance. But what it does do well is mimic hormones to wake up ur leydig cells and make ur nuts bigger giving people the impression that it is doing something. This is why guys like rich piana used to push it without truly understanding what it does.

Let me explain it another way. Let’s say you are in between cycles and decide to boost ur test levels and you take testosterone. Your test levels rise but are your actual test levels really going up? Ur own natural test levels will crash of course. But to someone like rich piana they will look at this and say hey it’s a great idea to inject testosterone between cycles ! And yes people believed this before

We live in bizzaroland sometimes in bodybuilding. We listen to the person with the biggest muscles . And we listen to the pretend doctors and businessmen who run clinics over real doctors. And it blunts progress and success. Which is probably what they want. Hcg is a perfect example of something with so much misinformation tied to it for the simple fact it is so profitable to sell. In reality the benefits are not that great. It is synthesized pregnant female urine after all which is pretty easy to source lol

my advice is stick to the protocol here. but track yoru FERTILITY numbers. not your LH. cause hcg will NOT boost lh, but hopefully you get a bounce in fertility

Perhaps I misunderstood your words sorry

Stressful times but no excuse shouldn’t have been so snappy about it. Just annoyed with things

I’m not terribly fussed on the levels.. well I am but more so the sperm motility etc that’s the only part that actually matters

 

[CypherOCE]

you need to get your sperm tested. that is what we need to see. that is the key to having a baby @CypherOCE

I’ve got a sperm analysis to do! 110%

Sorry @stevesmi and @Mobster just a little stressed at the predicament I find myself in and not seeing marked improvements but I guess I can’t expect everything to work out straight away so I’ll need to be more patient and forgiving

 

[Allupfromhere]

Just annoyed with things

Good things come to good people brother im a big believer in that. Just keep at it brother thinking of ya

 

[CypherOCE]

Good things come to good people brother im a big believer in that. Just keep at it brother thinking of ya

Thanks bro

Tough mental slog to get past knowing you did it to yourself but hopefully it will be okay

 

[Mobster]

@CypherOCE

@stevesmi and me have been having some side discussion of this related to HCG in my cycle. Has your doctor mentioned anything about this drug called Gonadorelin? That's what the nurse practitioner at my TRT clinic preferred. She said it's superior to HCG. I looked into Gonadorelin, and it actually stimulates your pituitary to make the LH instead of mimicking LH and shutting down your pituitary.

Might be something worth looking into. Like maybe this is new tech and so potentially that "every notable doctor..." thing is dated. Most doctors aren't known for keeping up on current trends.

It'd make more sense getting, as much as possible, the body to do the work. That was the approach with the GLP's

BB's are far more likely to look at up to date stuff if only cos we're not 'doctoring' all day long

The name you mention does seem to ring a bell. Might be similar to a thread a younger and 'underdeveloped' (according to them) who wanted to boost their test.

As an aside on the show I mentioned a IFLS thread on FB where both some men and women wasn't aware of how many holes the women had up front. Men often forget it's NOT all balls in their case

 

[2Thick]

I’ve got a sperm analysis to do! 110%

Sorry @stevesmi and @Mobster just a little stressed at the predicament I find myself in and not seeing marked improvements but I guess I can’t expect everything to work out straight away so I’ll need to be more patient and forgiving

yeah sperm is what we are after. but a little insight and knowledge from @stevesmi goes a long way so people understand what happens when they use these things

 

[ballin2504]

Disappointing LH and FSH results from today's blood test. I guess I expected them to be higher but I'm only running a small amount of HCG so that's probably why.

View attachment 111889

Plan moving forward 3000IU of HCG weekly

Test and free test have returned to range but I don't feel much better anyway

View attachment 111888

Steve’s got ya covered here man.

 

[Noah Wixx]

well i hate to give you the bad news man and 95% of people on the internet will not understand me saying this but listen to me closely on this.

hcg DOES NOT increase LH and FSH. it DECREASES THEM. now why would that be? its because it MIMICS those pituitargy gland hormones so it will signal your pituitary glands to SLOW DOWN production.

i've known this for 15 years because just like you i ran bloods while on hcg and saw the same thing happen. at the time nobody undrestood that so i started to tell people the truth. but because people out there get their information from fake gurus they still believe that hcg increases lh and fsh, when it doesn't and why hcg is really dumb to use in pct. and i don't recommend it for fertility UNLESS its a last ditch resort.

This is nothing but the facts and truth that steve is telling you.

 

[John Carmack]

@stevesmi is 100% correct. HCG will keep your LH and FSH blunted because it increases both test and E2 levels and your hypothalamus will look at your E2 levels and think, Ah, you have enough androgens in your body and put brakes on your Pitutary producing LH. Read about HPTA axis.

Look at your E2 levels here:

And look at your E2 levels here which kicked your LH high:

Even very low doses of HCG will keep the E2 High and even though it acts as LH, it does not produce enough testosterone unless you are copious amounts of it, but it is notorious at producing E2 levels. I am on HCG myself to keep the balls alive on TRT and my E2 levels are always crazy high - like 200 even after taking AI.

So, IF your goal is to go natty and have naturally high LH levels, dropping that HCG "AND" HMG makes sense.

But if the goal is to make babies, keep at HCG and HMG, but your LH Might not recover while at it. You can even be on TRT if you are doing this. No need to drop off test injections. Why? Because SERMS are not working and body is not making LH and FSH anyway. Also higher Levels of HCG can also partially act as FSH as well.

The million $ question is why Clomid and tamoxifen is not asking your hypo to remove the brakes off the pitutary and produce more LH. Since you are using both, the dose looks too high, not sure if its causing desensitization in the hypothalamus, or the tablets you got are bust. You never know your supplier might have recieved fake tablets in the first place and he might also not be aware of it, or even be a bad batch - though chances are low, nothing is off the table.

 

[John Carmack]

Now that I think of it, another 2 possiblities are that keeping calories low can also supress LH. Its natural way to control your metabolism. Plus the SERM might be good, but you have suppressed your HPTA axis for so long, it might take longer to see the LH increase as your pitutary went to sleep.

Maybe increase calories to maintanence for sometime and not do a cut at this time to rule out its not your lowered calories is the culprit. Drop the Reta, there is not enough data on how this affects. You can always hop back on after your girl becomes pregnant. Continue with your SERMS for another month or month and a half and do a re test once reta is completley off the system.

 

[John Carmack]

 

[Wolfenstein]

Now that I think of it, another 2 possiblities are that keeping calories low can also supress LH. Its natural way to control your metabolism. Plus the SERM might be good, but you have suppressed your HPTA axis for so long, it might take longer to see the LH increase as your pitutary went to sleep.

Maybe increase calories to maintanence for sometime and not do a cut at this time to rule out its not your lowered calories is the culprit. Drop the Reta, there is not enough data on how this affects. You can always hop back on after your girl becomes pregnant. Continue with your SERMS for another month or month and a half and do a re test once reta is completley off the system.

If he were to jump on the TRT, Hcg HMG combo (which I really like) would that make the clomid and nolva redundant? Because since HMG already provides FSH would adding serms on top really benefit? I agree with all your answers btw not disagreeing I think your suggestion of adding TRT back in along with continuing HCG and HMG would be the best bet. I also absolutely agree with upping the calories to maintenance even a bit over as a long deficit just stresses too many parameters. Cheers brother.

 

[Wolfenstein]

View attachment 112930

But wouldn’t the increased insulin sensitivity increase LH?

 

[John Carmack]

If he were to jump on the TRT, Hcg HMG combo (which I really like) would that make the clomid and nolva redundant? Because since HMG already provides FSH would adding serms on top really benefit? I agree with all your answers btw not disagreeing I think your suggestion of adding TRT back in along with continuing HCG and HMG would be the best bet. I also absolutely agree with upping the calories to maintenance even a bit over as a long deficit just stresses too many parameters. Cheers brother.

If he jumps on TRT the SERMS are redundant. Because in natty people, HPTA detects E2 levels to control LH. When moderate amount of external test is induced (even mid-high TRT doses), HPTA also detects elevated androgen levels (testosterone levels), and the LH is still supressed. This was a hard pill for me to swallow a few months ago when I got on TRT and learnt about it.

But wouldn’t the increased insulin sensitivity increase LH?

Bro hes ripped like Bruce Lee, his insulin sensitivity will already be sky high Fasting insulin blood test should indicate this, but i know that on GLP-1, fasting insulin will be lowered. On tirz, my fasting insulin went down from 16 to 9. Only way for him to find is come off GLP for 6 half lives - around 5 weeks and then do a fasting insulin test to see how his insulin sensitivity is. But fat people can make thier wives pregnant, so insulin sensitivity is not the only factor or even a major factor compared to having GLP-1 in his blood which might be supressing his LH.

DISCLAIMER: I am not an andrologist/professional. Take my suggestions with a grain of salt. Whether he has to hop on TRT is not my call to make at the end of the day

 

[John Carmack]

I like this guys, he knows things well. He suggests staying on TRT, HCG and FSH. He says he does not know about HMG dosing as he has no experience with it. But FSH is expensive. He also suggests not to use clomid/tamoxifen as it causes issues with women and there are no studies of its effects on men. I was a part of his closed paid group for a couple of months and I have seen people having kids successfully being on TRT + HCG + FSH. Also Indian HCG can vary in doses so better to stick with pharma HCG.

Dont remember the doses, but he has it covered in the video. No idea where you would get FSH OR IF HMG is equally good.

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Here is a link that covers various HCG doses of Indian HCGs. Some are seriously overdosed and some are underdosed.

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@Wolfenstein

 

[CypherOCE]

Steve’s got ya covered here man.

He’s a good dude!

This is nothing but the facts and truth that steve is telling you.

I appreciate his advice, was hard to take but definitely hit the mark.

@stevesmi is 100% correct. HCG will keep your LH and FSH blunted because it increases both test and E2 levels and your hypothalamus will look at your E2 levels and think, Ah, you have enough androgens in your body and put brakes on your Pitutary producing LH. Read about HPTA axis.

Look at your E2 levels here:
View attachment 112924

And look at your E2 levels here which kicked your LH high:
View attachment 112925

Even very low doses of HCG will keep the E2 High and even though it acts as LH, it does not produce enough testosterone unless you are copious amounts of it, but it is notorious at producing E2 levels. I am on HCG myself to keep the balls alive on TRT and my E2 levels are always crazy high - like 200 even after taking AI.

So, IF your goal is to go natty and have naturally high LH levels, dropping that HCG "AND" HMG makes sense.

But if the goal is to make babies, keep at HCG and HMG, but your LH Might not recover while at it. You can even be on TRT if you are doing this. No need to drop off test injections. Why? Because SERMS are not working and body is not making LH and FSH anyway. Also higher Levels of HCG can also partially act as FSH as well.

The million $ question is why Clomid and tamoxifen is not asking your hypo to remove the brakes off the pitutary and produce more LH. Since you are using both, the dose looks too high, not sure if its causing desensitization in the hypothalamus, or the tablets you got are bust. You never know your supplier might have recieved fake tablets in the first place and he might also not be aware of it, or even be a bad batch - though chances are low, nothing is off the table.

Mmmm interesting I hadn’t considered this as it was Aussie pharma stuff.

Now that I think of it, another 2 possiblities are that keeping calories low can also supress LH. It’s natural way to control your metabolism. Plus the SERM might be good, but you have suppressed your HPTA axis for so long, it might take longer to see the LH increase as your pitutary went to sleep.

Maybe increase calories to maintanence for sometime and not do a cut at this time to rule out its not your lowered calories is the culprit. Drop the Reta, there is not enough data on how this affects. You can always hop back on after your girl becomes pregnant. Continue with your SERMS for another month or month and a half and do a re test once reta is completley off the system.

Will be cutting reta out and increasing to come out of the deficit

View attachment 112930

I can stop the Reta that’s not an issue already down to a weight I’m happy with anyway

If he jumps on TRT the SERMS are redundant. Because in natty people, HPTA detects E2 levels to control LH. When moderate amount of external test is induced (even mid-high TRT doses), HPTA also detects elevated androgen levels (testosterone levels), and the LH is still supressed. This was a hard pill for me to swallow a few months ago when I got on TRT and learnt about it.

Bro hes ripped like Bruce Lee, his insulin sensitivity will already be sky high Fasting insulin blood test should indicate this, but i know that on GLP-1, fasting insulin will be lowered. On tirz, my fasting insulin went down from 16 to 9. Only way for him to find is come off GLP for 6 half lives - around 5 weeks and then do a fasting insulin test to see how his insulin sensitivity is. But fat people can make thier wives pregnant, so insulin sensitivity is not the only factor or even a major factor compared to having GLP-1 in his blood which might be supressing his LH.

DISCLAIMER: I am not an andrologist/professional. Take my suggestions with a grain of salt. Whether he has to hop on TRT is not my call to make at the end of the day

Funnily enough I watched his videos last night while on night shift and spoke to him on the comments section.. really nice guy from the quick chat. Genuinely seemed like he wanted to help however he could.

I like this guys, he knows things well. He suggests staying on TRT, HCG and FSH. He says he does not know about HMG dosing as he has no experience with it. But FSH is expensive. He also suggests not to use clomid/tamoxifen as it causes issues with women and there are no studies of its effects on men. I was a part of his closed paid group for a couple of months and I have seen people having kids successfully being on TRT + HCG + FSH. Also Indian HCG can vary in doses so better to stick with pharma HCG.

Dont remember the doses, but he has it covered in the video. No idea where you would get FSH OR IF HMG is equally good.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

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Here is a link that covers various HCG doses of Indian HCGs. Some are seriously overdosed and some are underdosed.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

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@Wolfenstein