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Approved Log Echos Bulk log

Echos

Echos

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Echos bulk log



So I’m 48 and appprox 230 and roughly 12% BF. I finished a cut in October and have been on TRT since Nov. Still been training hard but not to failure so I can allow some time for everything to heal up. I was down to 220, so I’m up 10lb. I’ve made a bit of progress on weights because I’m back at maintenance calories which is right around 2500/d.



I feel like I’ve done decent on my diet in the past but when bulking I’ve been too afraid to be in too large a surplus for fear of getting fat. I’m old and it’s harder to lose than in my 20s. Anyway, for this go round I’m gonna try carb cycling and see how I do.



The plan is to have one high day, 2 low days and 4 med carb days. The low days will be on my day off from the gym in which I’ll do about 90 min of cardio.



Breakdown: total calories/Protein/Carbs/Fat



Low: 2200/260/200/40

Med: 3000/280/375/40

High: 3550/295/490/50



I’d love to get more meals in during the day but I don’t have that kinda time at work. I workout at 5AM.



#1

100g Blueberries

150g Yogurt

100g Kashi golean



#2

6oz ground turkey

6 egg whites

1 bagel



#3 and #5

200g chicken breast

100/200/300 white rice (L/M/H)



#4

Snacks

2 apples

2 bananas

2 servings of Whey isolate



The only change from low, med, high day is the fruit and the amount of rice for meals 3 and 5 and low day only 1/2 bagel



I’ll see how this goes and add in carbs if I stall in the gym or start losing weight





I’m doing a modified push/pull/legs routine. My main focus is to add some size to my arms, shoulders and hams. Everything else will be somewhat maintenance volume. Every set will go to 1 reps in reserve to failure. I generally will keep reps in the 10-15 range.



#1

3x incline bench press

3x machine chest flyes

4x plate loaded shoulder press

4x seated Y lateral raise

3x reverse fly machine

3x cable lateral raise

4x tricep extension

8x standing calf raise



#2

4x T bar row

4x pull ups

3x low back extensions

4x dumbbell single arm row

3x spider curl

3x incline curl

5x ab crunch machine



#3

4x seated ham curl

3x squat

4x hack squat

4x leg extensions

4x lying ham curl

8x calf raise (leg press)



#4

4x H bar pull downs

4x seated one arm rows

4x plate loaded shoulder press

5x lateral raise (superset with 20s rest)

4x reverse fly machine

4x lateral raise cable

5x hanging leg raise



#5

4x JM press

4x Bicep curl

4x seated tricep extension

4x seated high single arm curl (machine)

4x tricep extension

4x spider curls

8x calf raise (leg press)





As far as gear goes…I’m gonna use Test, NPP, Primo and some HGH. All gear was purchased thru Napsgear. And I’m running Dragon Pharm gear.



For Test, I’ll start at 300mg/wk and increase 50mg/wk till I get to 500mg/wk

NPP: start at 200mg/wk and increase 50mg/wk till 400mg/wk

Primo: will mirror NPP.

HGH: will start at 2IUs in AM and increase 1IU every 3wks for max of 4IUs split 2IUs in AM and 2 in PM.

So I’ll be at Test 500mg/wk; NPP 400mg/wk and Primo 400mg/wk and max HGH of 4IUs/d…if I can tolerate that much.



Start date will be Jan 7th. I’m taking the last week in Dec completely off as I travel for the holidays. First week in Jan will be to get reacclimated to the gym and Jan 7 is go time.

Lastly, I know a lot of you guys like to see daily updates regarding workouts and diet etc. I just don’t have time for that. My goal is to put down a weekly summary so hopefully that will be enough.
 
Echos said:
Echos bulk log



So I’m 48 and appprox 230 and roughly 12% BF. I finished a cut in October and have been on TRT since Nov. Still been training hard but not to failure so I can allow some time for everything to heal up. I was down to 220, so I’m up 10lb. I’ve made a bit of progress on weights because I’m back at maintenance calories which is right around 2500/d.



I feel like I’ve done decent on my diet in the past but when bulking I’ve been too afraid to be in too large a surplus for fear of getting fat. I’m old and it’s harder to lose than in my 20s. Anyway, for this go round I’m gonna try carb cycling and see how I do.



The plan is to have one high day, 2 low days and 4 med carb days. The low days will be on my day off from the gym in which I’ll do about 90 min of cardio.



Breakdown: total calories/Protein/Carbs/Fat



Low: 2200/260/200/40

Med: 3000/280/375/40

High: 3550/295/490/50



I’d love to get more meals in during the day but I don’t have that kinda time at work. I workout at 5AM.



#1

100g Blueberries

150g Yogurt

100g Kashi golean



#2

6oz ground turkey

6 egg whites

1 bagel



#3 and #5

200g chicken breast

100/200/300 white rice (L/M/H)



#4

Snacks

2 apples

2 bananas

2 servings of Whey isolate



The only change from low, med, high day is the fruit and the amount of rice for meals 3 and 5 and low day only 1/2 bagel



I’ll see how this goes and add in carbs if I stall in the gym or start losing weight





I’m doing a modified push/pull/legs routine. My main focus is to add some size to my arms, shoulders and hams. Everything else will be somewhat maintenance volume. Every set will go to 1 reps in reserve to failure. I generally will keep reps in the 10-15 range.



#1

3x incline bench press

3x machine chest flyes

4x plate loaded shoulder press

4x seated Y lateral raise

3x reverse fly machine

3x cable lateral raise

4x tricep extension

8x standing calf raise



#2

4x T bar row

4x pull ups

3x low back extensions

4x dumbbell single arm row

3x spider curl

3x incline curl

5x ab crunch machine



#3

4x seated ham curl

3x squat

4x hack squat

4x leg extensions

4x lying ham curl

8x calf raise (leg press)



#4

4x H bar pull downs

4x seated one arm rows

4x plate loaded shoulder press

5x lateral raise (superset with 20s rest)

4x reverse fly machine

4x lateral raise cable

5x hanging leg raise



#5

4x JM press

4x Bicep curl

4x seated tricep extension

4x seated high single arm curl (machine)

4x tricep extension

4x spider curls

8x calf raise (leg press)





As far as gear goes…I’m gonna use Test, NPP, Primo and some HGH. All gear was purchased thru Napsgear. And I’m running Dragon Pharm gear.



For Test, I’ll start at 300mg/wk and increase 50mg/wk till I get to 500mg/wk

NPP: start at 200mg/wk and increase 50mg/wk till 400mg/wk

Primo: will mirror NPP.

HGH: will start at 2IUs in AM and increase 1IU every 3wks for max of 4IUs split 2IUs in AM and 2 in PM.

So I’ll be at Test 500mg/wk; NPP 400mg/wk and Primo 400mg/wk and max HGH of 4IUs/d…if I can tolerate that much.



Start date will be Jan 7th. I’m taking the last week in Dec completely off as I travel for the holidays. First week in Jan will be to get reacclimated to the gym and Jan 7 is go time.

Lastly, I know a lot of you guys like to see daily updates regarding workouts and diet etc. I just don’t have time for that. My goal is to put down a weekly summary so hopefully that will be enough.
Click to expand...
@Echos great log start, thank you and I followed your last log:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/echos-tren-deca-test-hgh-log.87467/

nice start to the share
can you keep sharing and adding pics

pics of your meals
pictures of your training
pictures of your supps
pics of your gear
 
thanks for putting up a new log this looks like an Epic log
we are looking forward to seeing more information about your training
 
meal pictures are always welcome they get our mouth watering
also make sure you're posting up what you're eating so that we can give you some constructive criticism
 
this is going to be a really good log I have a good feeling about it
that's good that you're almost 50 years old and you have some really good stats please put up some pictures let's see
 
detailing your diet and training is going to be the best thing you can do
that will give us a lot of information so that we can give you feedback
 
Monstro respects what you are doing
but monstro needs more info. pictures are a must
 
Echos said:
Echos bulk log



So I’m 48 and appprox 230 and roughly 12% BF. I finished a cut in October and have been on TRT since Nov. Still been training hard but not to failure so I can allow some time for everything to heal up. I was down to 220, so I’m up 10lb. I’ve made a bit of progress on weights because I’m back at maintenance calories which is right around 2500/d.



I feel like I’ve done decent on my diet in the past but when bulking I’ve been too afraid to be in too large a surplus for fear of getting fat. I’m old and it’s harder to lose than in my 20s. Anyway, for this go round I’m gonna try carb cycling and see how I do.



The plan is to have one high day, 2 low days and 4 med carb days. The low days will be on my day off from the gym in which I’ll do about 90 min of cardio.



Breakdown: total calories/Protein/Carbs/Fat



Low: 2200/260/200/40

Med: 3000/280/375/40

High: 3550/295/490/50



I’d love to get more meals in during the day but I don’t have that kinda time at work. I workout at 5AM.



#1

100g Blueberries

150g Yogurt

100g Kashi golean



#2

6oz ground turkey

6 egg whites

1 bagel



#3 and #5

200g chicken breast

100/200/300 white rice (L/M/H)



#4

Snacks

2 apples

2 bananas

2 servings of Whey isolate



The only change from low, med, high day is the fruit and the amount of rice for meals 3 and 5 and low day only 1/2 bagel



I’ll see how this goes and add in carbs if I stall in the gym or start losing weight





I’m doing a modified push/pull/legs routine. My main focus is to add some size to my arms, shoulders and hams. Everything else will be somewhat maintenance volume. Every set will go to 1 reps in reserve to failure. I generally will keep reps in the 10-15 range.



#1

3x incline bench press

3x machine chest flyes

4x plate loaded shoulder press

4x seated Y lateral raise

3x reverse fly machine

3x cable lateral raise

4x tricep extension

8x standing calf raise



#2

4x T bar row

4x pull ups

3x low back extensions

4x dumbbell single arm row

3x spider curl

3x incline curl

5x ab crunch machine



#3

4x seated ham curl

3x squat

4x hack squat

4x leg extensions

4x lying ham curl

8x calf raise (leg press)



#4

4x H bar pull downs

4x seated one arm rows

4x plate loaded shoulder press

5x lateral raise (superset with 20s rest)

4x reverse fly machine

4x lateral raise cable

5x hanging leg raise



#5

4x JM press

4x Bicep curl

4x seated tricep extension

4x seated high single arm curl (machine)

4x tricep extension

4x spider curls

8x calf raise (leg press)





As far as gear goes…I’m gonna use Test, NPP, Primo and some HGH. All gear was purchased thru Napsgear. And I’m running Dragon Pharm gear.



For Test, I’ll start at 300mg/wk and increase 50mg/wk till I get to 500mg/wk

NPP: start at 200mg/wk and increase 50mg/wk till 400mg/wk

Primo: will mirror NPP.

HGH: will start at 2IUs in AM and increase 1IU every 3wks for max of 4IUs split 2IUs in AM and 2 in PM.

So I’ll be at Test 500mg/wk; NPP 400mg/wk and Primo 400mg/wk and max HGH of 4IUs/d…if I can tolerate that much.



Start date will be Jan 7th. I’m taking the last week in Dec completely off as I travel for the holidays. First week in Jan will be to get reacclimated to the gym and Jan 7 is go time.

Lastly, I know a lot of you guys like to see daily updates regarding workouts and diet etc. I just don’t have time for that. My goal is to put down a weekly summary so hopefully that will be enough.
Click to expand...
@Echos waiting for them updates, and i waited on your other log and unsubbed haha
 
stevesmi said:
Yes for sure because a lot of people like to copy how people are training
Click to expand...
I e learned a lot of training methods from these logs over the years
 
Echos said:
Echos bulk log



So I’m 48 and appprox 230 and roughly 12% BF. I finished a cut in October and have been on TRT since Nov. Still been training hard but not to failure so I can allow some time for everything to heal up. I was down to 220, so I’m up 10lb. I’ve made a bit of progress on weights because I’m back at maintenance calories which is right around 2500/d.



I feel like I’ve done decent on my diet in the past but when bulking I’ve been too afraid to be in too large a surplus for fear of getting fat. I’m old and it’s harder to lose than in my 20s. Anyway, for this go round I’m gonna try carb cycling and see how I do.



The plan is to have one high day, 2 low days and 4 med carb days. The low days will be on my day off from the gym in which I’ll do about 90 min of cardio.



Breakdown: total calories/Protein/Carbs/Fat



Low: 2200/260/200/40

Med: 3000/280/375/40

High: 3550/295/490/50



I’d love to get more meals in during the day but I don’t have that kinda time at work. I workout at 5AM.



#1

100g Blueberries

150g Yogurt

100g Kashi golean



#2

6oz ground turkey

6 egg whites

1 bagel



#3 and #5

200g chicken breast

100/200/300 white rice (L/M/H)



#4

Snacks

2 apples

2 bananas

2 servings of Whey isolate



The only change from low, med, high day is the fruit and the amount of rice for meals 3 and 5 and low day only 1/2 bagel



I’ll see how this goes and add in carbs if I stall in the gym or start losing weight





I’m doing a modified push/pull/legs routine. My main focus is to add some size to my arms, shoulders and hams. Everything else will be somewhat maintenance volume. Every set will go to 1 reps in reserve to failure. I generally will keep reps in the 10-15 range.



#1

3x incline bench press

3x machine chest flyes

4x plate loaded shoulder press

4x seated Y lateral raise

3x reverse fly machine

3x cable lateral raise

4x tricep extension

8x standing calf raise



#2

4x T bar row

4x pull ups

3x low back extensions

4x dumbbell single arm row

3x spider curl

3x incline curl

5x ab crunch machine



#3

4x seated ham curl

3x squat

4x hack squat

4x leg extensions

4x lying ham curl

8x calf raise (leg press)



#4

4x H bar pull downs

4x seated one arm rows

4x plate loaded shoulder press

5x lateral raise (superset with 20s rest)

4x reverse fly machine

4x lateral raise cable

5x hanging leg raise



#5

4x JM press

4x Bicep curl

4x seated tricep extension

4x seated high single arm curl (machine)

4x tricep extension

4x spider curls

8x calf raise (leg press)





As far as gear goes…I’m gonna use Test, NPP, Primo and some HGH. All gear was purchased thru Napsgear. And I’m running Dragon Pharm gear.



For Test, I’ll start at 300mg/wk and increase 50mg/wk till I get to 500mg/wk

NPP: start at 200mg/wk and increase 50mg/wk till 400mg/wk

Primo: will mirror NPP.

HGH: will start at 2IUs in AM and increase 1IU every 3wks for max of 4IUs split 2IUs in AM and 2 in PM.

So I’ll be at Test 500mg/wk; NPP 400mg/wk and Primo 400mg/wk and max HGH of 4IUs/d…if I can tolerate that much.



Start date will be Jan 7th. I’m taking the last week in Dec completely off as I travel for the holidays. First week in Jan will be to get reacclimated to the gym and Jan 7 is go time.

Lastly, I know a lot of you guys like to see daily updates regarding workouts and diet etc. I just don’t have time for that. My goal is to put down a weekly summary so hopefully that will be enough.
Click to expand...
when will you be on max NPP and test dose. Should grow well when you hit the max dose on this cycle. Really like the HGH use as well. Hope HGH came from @domestic-supply.com
 
Week 0

Hey folks. Hope all is well and everyone had a good Christmas. As I mentioned in the OP, spent that week with my family and didn’t touch a weight. Wanted to give myself a break on the diet and the gym. Got some good rest physically. I didn’t think I ate badly, but my weight pre-holiday was 225 and I was 237 when I came back On Monday. Crazy. Now, 2 days latter I’m down to 231.

So this would be week 0 as I plan on starting PED/HGH use next week. I wanted to use this week to get reacclimated to the gym and do a practice run on the meal prep to make sure I got everything down. So I calculated everything out right, but it took me 2 hours from start to finish including cleaning up. Ugh. Just what I got to do as this focus for me is really about making sure I’m on point with the diet. The only change that I’m gonna make is dropping 1 apple and 1 banana and shifting those carbs to rice. This will just help out my work day so I don’t have to stop as much.

Not much of an update here as next week is Week 1 and “Go Time”.
 
Echos said:
Week 0

Hey folks. Hope all is well and everyone had a good Christmas. As I mentioned in the OP, spent that week with my family and didn’t touch a weight. Wanted to give myself a break on the diet and the gym. Got some good rest physically. I didn’t think I ate badly, but my weight pre-holiday was 225 and I was 237 when I came back On Monday. Crazy. Now, 2 days latter I’m down to 231.

So this would be week 0 as I plan on starting PED/HGH use next week. I wanted to use this week to get reacclimated to the gym and do a practice run on the meal prep to make sure I got everything down. So I calculated everything out right, but it took me 2 hours from start to finish including cleaning up. Ugh. Just what I got to do as this focus for me is really about making sure I’m on point with the diet. The only change that I’m gonna make is dropping 1 apple and 1 banana and shifting those carbs to rice. This will just help out my work day so I don’t have to stop as much.

Not much of an update here as next week is Week 1 and “Go Time”.
Click to expand...
@Echos merry xmas and new year to you welcome back.

can you start to update your diet training as you're back
and PEDs and hgh can we see your gear pics?
 
Echos said:
Week 0

Hey folks. Hope all is well and everyone had a good Christmas. As I mentioned in the OP, spent that week with my family and didn’t touch a weight. Wanted to give myself a break on the diet and the gym. Got some good rest physically. I didn’t think I ate badly, but my weight pre-holiday was 225 and I was 237 when I came back On Monday. Crazy. Now, 2 days latter I’m down to 231.

So this would be week 0 as I plan on starting PED/HGH use next week. I wanted to use this week to get reacclimated to the gym and do a practice run on the meal prep to make sure I got everything down. So I calculated everything out right, but it took me 2 hours from start to finish including cleaning up. Ugh. Just what I got to do as this focus for me is really about making sure I’m on point with the diet. The only change that I’m gonna make is dropping 1 apple and 1 banana and shifting those carbs to rice. This will just help out my work day so I don’t have to stop as much.

Not much of an update here as next week is Week 1 and “Go Time”.
Click to expand...
I had a day or two off then an easy day. Needs must
 
post up more information on your training as well
 
yes and definitely be very detailed and as to what you're eating and when
 
it's early in this long but let's get more information up as soon as possible
 
the more info you can get up the better we can advise you
 
Echos said:
Week 0

Hey folks. Hope all is well and everyone had a good Christmas. As I mentioned in the OP, spent that week with my family and didn’t touch a weight. Wanted to give myself a break on the diet and the gym. Got some good rest physically. I didn’t think I ate badly, but my weight pre-holiday was 225 and I was 237 when I came back On Monday. Crazy. Now, 2 days latter I’m down to 231.

So this would be week 0 as I plan on starting PED/HGH use next week. I wanted to use this week to get reacclimated to the gym and do a practice run on the meal prep to make sure I got everything down. So I calculated everything out right, but it took me 2 hours from start to finish including cleaning up. Ugh. Just what I got to do as this focus for me is really about making sure I’m on point with the diet. The only change that I’m gonna make is dropping 1 apple and 1 banana and shifting those carbs to rice. This will just help out my work day so I don’t have to stop as much.

Not much of an update here as next week is Week 1 and “Go Time”.
Click to expand...
get out to a good start and keep it rolling bro
 
Week 1 check in

Okay, so I’m at the end of week 1. Everything for the most part as been going well. Been on target with food, with workout and with supplements.

Some asked about my diet. I have that listed out in the OP so if you’re interested just look at the initial post and you’ll find it. I think I’m going to make a few small changes.

In the past I would have 2 full leg days per week. As I’ve gotten older I just cannot recovery from a full leg day and be ready to go for the next one. So, for some time I’ve just done 1 full leg day per week. One of my “goals” for this bulk is my hams. So I’m thinking I might try to add a partial leg day on one of the 2 days off (that I use for cardio). So putting in some leg curls, straight leg deadlift, Jackson squat….maybe add in some more abs on that day and then with the rest of the time do some cardio at the gym. I’ve not solidified that workout but I’m gonna add it in on week 2.
Second, I’m gonna move around my low, med, hi carb days. Right now, I have 2 low, 1 hi and the rest medium. I’m gonna swap out one low for a med and put the hi day right after my low day. Currently it is: L,M,M,L,M,M,H. That is Sun-Sat. So I’m gonna switch it to: L,M,M,M,M,M,H. So Sat will be hi and Sun low and the rest medium.

I was 231 on Sunday, today I’m 233.

Small change to workout. I’ve had a slight right shoulder thing that bothers me sometimes. This past week instead of doing incline press I did flat bench press and my shoulder felt great! So I’m gonna swap that out for this cycle. Then as mentioned about, I’ll have 6 workout days instead of 5 and 1 cardio/active rest day instead of 2.

Last, thing. I gonna change up my HGH dosing a bit. In the past when I tried to do 4 IUs (2AM and 2PM) I got really bad carpel tunnel. I think I’m very prone to it as my hand go numb when I’m in be reading in bed…..and that was before I ever touched PEDs or HGH. So I switched and since have always done my HGH in AM before workout. It was just easier that way. I tried switching it to 2PM because I think the conventional wisdom is that for bulking it works better in the PM. So I did this and my CT got worse after 2 days. So, I’m gonna try to do 2 IUs after workout and then add in 1 in the PM for a few weeks and then build up and see if I can get to 2 in the PM. If I cannot then maybe try to do it all after workout.

Oh, one more thing. I’ve been on my TRT for about 2 months now. I always feel I push pretty good but since I was trying to have some recovery, I haven’t been “balls to the wall” intensity. Ive tried to step that up but been a bit short and towards the end of the workout I feel gassed. Today, i had good intensity all the way to the end. It was great. Love being back on a real cycle again!
 
Echos said:
Week 1 check in

Okay, so I’m at the end of week 1. Everything for the most part as been going well. Been on target with food, with workout and with supplements.

Some asked about my diet. I have that listed out in the OP so if you’re interested just look at the initial post and you’ll find it. I think I’m going to make a few small changes.

In the past I would have 2 full leg days per week. As I’ve gotten older I just cannot recovery from a full leg day and be ready to go for the next one. So, for some time I’ve just done 1 full leg day per week. One of my “goals” for this bulk is my hams. So I’m thinking I might try to add a partial leg day on one of the 2 days off (that I use for cardio). So putting in some leg curls, straight leg deadlift, Jackson squat….maybe add in some more abs on that day and then with the rest of the time do some cardio at the gym. I’ve not solidified that workout but I’m gonna add it in on week 2.
Second, I’m gonna move around my low, med, hi carb days. Right now, I have 2 low, 1 hi and the rest medium. I’m gonna swap out one low for a med and put the hi day right after my low day. Currently it is: L,M,M,L,M,M,H. That is Sun-Sat. So I’m gonna switch it to: L,M,M,M,M,M,H. So Sat will be hi and Sun low and the rest medium.

I was 231 on Sunday, today I’m 233.

Small change to workout. I’ve had a slight right shoulder thing that bothers me sometimes. This past week instead of doing incline press I did flat bench press and my shoulder felt great! So I’m gonna swap that out for this cycle. Then as mentioned about, I’ll have 6 workout days instead of 5 and 1 cardio/active rest day instead of 2.

Last, thing. I gonna change up my HGH dosing a bit. In the past when I tried to do 4 IUs (2AM and 2PM) I got really bad carpel tunnel. I think I’m very prone to it as my hand go numb when I’m in be reading in bed…..and that was before I ever touched PEDs or HGH. So I switched and since have always done my HGH in AM before workout. It was just easier that way. I tried switching it to 2PM because I think the conventional wisdom is that for bulking it works better in the PM. So I did this and my CT got worse after 2 days. So, I’m gonna try to do 2 IUs after workout and then add in 1 in the PM for a few weeks and then build up and see if I can get to 2 in the PM. If I cannot then maybe try to do it all after workout.

Oh, one more thing. I’ve been on my TRT for about 2 months now. I always feel I push pretty good but since I was trying to have some recovery, I haven’t been “balls to the wall” intensity. Ive tried to step that up but been a bit short and towards the end of the workout I feel gassed. Today, i had good intensity all the way to the end. It was great. Love being back on a real cycle again!
Click to expand...
@Echos so you made no diet changes? and small what changes did you make?
and the injury you should start BPC for it with fish oil, whats your omega 3 fish oi lintake?

on HGH 4IU too much thats the issue, 2 IU is the most

TRT you posted pics of the TRT gear? I dont see it
 
LevButlerov said:
@Echos so you made no diet changes? and small what changes did you make?
and the injury you should start BPC for it with fish oil, whats your omega 3 fish oi lintake?

on HGH 4IU too much thats the issue, 2 IU is the most

TRT you posted pics of the TRT gear? I dont see it
Click to expand...
I do take fish oil daily for several years. The shoulder has bothered me for some time (5-6 months) but I’ve just powered thru it. Maybe I’ve just placed too much accumulated stress there. So a beak from incline presses may do the trick.

only change to diet will be replacing one low carb day with a medium carb day. And push my high carb day to the day after my low day instead of the day before.
 
RoidRage69 said:
4iu hgh is way too much. I tried going up to 3.5 iu and water retention was bad. 2iu long term use is best.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I wanted to try to maximize any growth during the bulk phase by increasing the HGH. Seen other coaches recommend 12-15IUs. That’s way too much for me….and I don’t have that kinda bank to throw at HGH. I’ve heard Derek from MPMD cover an article that showed anything over 6IUs doesn’t really significantly increase IGF-1 that much. But I’d really like to see if I can titrate up to 4.
 
Echos said:
Yeah. I wanted to try to maximize any growth during the bulk phase by increasing the HGH. Seen other coaches recommend 12-15IUs. That’s way too much for me….and I don’t have that kinda bank to throw at HGH. I’ve heard Derek from MPMD cover an article that showed anything over 6IUs doesn’t really significantly increase IGF-1 that much. But I’d really like to see if I can titrate up to 4.
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Ok just remember these hormones work synergistically. 1+1=3
 
Echos said:
I do take fish oil daily for several years. The shoulder has bothered me for some time (5-6 months) but I’ve just powered thru it. Maybe I’ve just placed too much accumulated stress there. So a beak from incline presses may do the trick.

only change to diet will be replacing one low carb day with a medium carb day. And push my high carb day to the day after my low day instead of the day before.
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@Echos how much you taking with fish oil? you need 30 grams of fish oil per day 20-30
the change in diet? would be good to see it what you plan to do
 
monstro things your shoulder might have some major issues going on
what did your doctor say was wrong with it
 
shoulder injuries don't go away usually
even if you rest them they will definitely be a problem going forward
 
if your shoulder has a tear or a rotator cuff issue
then I can guarantee you it will only get worse if you continue to pound that it
 
let us know hopefully your shoulder starts feeling better
I've had the same shoulder issues for years
 
if your shoulder keeps flaring up what will end up happening is you'll get inflammation go down your arm
once that happens it can cause major issues with your nerves
 
Echos said:
Week 1 check in

Okay, so I’m at the end of week 1. Everything for the most part as been going well. Been on target with food, with workout and with supplements.

Some asked about my diet. I have that listed out in the OP so if you’re interested just look at the initial post and you’ll find it. I think I’m going to make a few small changes.

In the past I would have 2 full leg days per week. As I’ve gotten older I just cannot recovery from a full leg day and be ready to go for the next one. So, for some time I’ve just done 1 full leg day per week. One of my “goals” for this bulk is my hams. So I’m thinking I might try to add a partial leg day on one of the 2 days off (that I use for cardio). So putting in some leg curls, straight leg deadlift, Jackson squat….maybe add in some more abs on that day and then with the rest of the time do some cardio at the gym. I’ve not solidified that workout but I’m gonna add it in on week 2.
Second, I’m gonna move around my low, med, hi carb days. Right now, I have 2 low, 1 hi and the rest medium. I’m gonna swap out one low for a med and put the hi day right after my low day. Currently it is: L,M,M,L,M,M,H. That is Sun-Sat. So I’m gonna switch it to: L,M,M,M,M,M,H. So Sat will be hi and Sun low and the rest medium.

I was 231 on Sunday, today I’m 233.

Small change to workout. I’ve had a slight right shoulder thing that bothers me sometimes. This past week instead of doing incline press I did flat bench press and my shoulder felt great! So I’m gonna swap that out for this cycle. Then as mentioned about, I’ll have 6 workout days instead of 5 and 1 cardio/active rest day instead of 2.

Last, thing. I gonna change up my HGH dosing a bit. In the past when I tried to do 4 IUs (2AM and 2PM) I got really bad carpel tunnel. I think I’m very prone to it as my hand go numb when I’m in be reading in bed…..and that was before I ever touched PEDs or HGH. So I switched and since have always done my HGH in AM before workout. It was just easier that way. I tried switching it to 2PM because I think the conventional wisdom is that for bulking it works better in the PM. So I did this and my CT got worse after 2 days. So, I’m gonna try to do 2 IUs after workout and then add in 1 in the PM for a few weeks and then build up and see if I can get to 2 in the PM. If I cannot then maybe try to do it all after workout.

Oh, one more thing. I’ve been on my TRT for about 2 months now. I always feel I push pretty good but since I was trying to have some recovery, I haven’t been “balls to the wall” intensity. Ive tried to step that up but been a bit short and towards the end of the workout I feel gassed. Today, i had good intensity all the way to the end. It was great. Love being back on a real cycle again!
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so you getting carpal tunnel at 4ius then? What type of HGH you using? I tend to start to see carpel sides at 4ius as well. I can tolerate it though
 
Week 2 update:

So, first let me address a few things from the comments:

the shoulder issue only was bothersome on a few movements, incline press and shoulder press (sometimes). Otherwise it didn’t bother me. Don’t know why it didn’t occur to me to change the movement to a flat bench sooner. I’ve had incline press as my main heavy chest movement for at least a year. Wanted to focus on my upper chest. Need to switch it up more….lesson learned. I’ll give that some time and see where it is in a few months.

The carpel tunnel/HGH; I’m using grey tops from Napsgear. I forget the seller/brand. none of it is labeled. White box, grey top, clear unmarked vials. I’ve heard folks on YouTube talk about running HGH and getting CT after 6-8 IUs and then l hear the post a few years later that they are running 12 IUs no problem. Wonder if there is something else they are doing or it is just a matter of slow increase in tolerance. I’d like to get up to 6IUs at some point.

Okay, here is the bad news: On Sunday I started getting a headache and some muscle soreness. Thought it was just the training etc. Worked out Monday and Tuesday per normal. I live in Middle TN and we’ve had quite a bit of snow this week and it makes the roads unsafe. Most businesses were closed Mon and Tues. My ass was still driving to the gym to get it done right. feeling bad, in the snow…up hill both ways…LOL. Anyway, Wednesday comes and I’ve got some significant nasal drainage and a low grade fever, Thursday felt just awful so I went to my PCP and I’ve got the Flu. Ugh. Well, that explains it. I’m on some meds to help, gonna take the rest of the week off and hopefully feel better next week. the problem is that it always take a week to get back to 100%, so next week will be like slowly ramping things up again. I guess better to have this early in the cycle than right in the middle. so I’ll take next week to get re acclimated to the gym and then the following week will be hopefully full tilt again.
 
Echos said:
Week 2 update:

So, first let me address a few things from the comments:

the shoulder issue only was bothersome on a few movements, incline press and shoulder press (sometimes). Otherwise it didn’t bother me. Don’t know why it didn’t occur to me to change the movement to a flat bench sooner. I’ve had incline press as my main heavy chest movement for at least a year. Wanted to focus on my upper chest. Need to switch it up more….lesson learned. I’ll give that some time and see where it is in a few months.

The carpel tunnel/HGH; I’m using grey tops from Napsgear. I forget the seller/brand. none of it is labeled. White box, grey top, clear unmarked vials. I’ve heard folks on YouTube talk about running HGH and getting CT after 6-8 IUs and then l hear the post a few years later that they are running 12 IUs no problem. Wonder if there is something else they are doing or it is just a matter of slow increase in tolerance. I’d like to get up to 6IUs at some point.

Okay, here is the bad news: On Sunday I started getting a headache and some muscle soreness. Thought it was just the training etc. Worked out Monday and Tuesday per normal. I live in Middle TN and we’ve had quite a bit of snow this week and it makes the roads unsafe. Most businesses were closed Mon and Tues. My ass was still driving to the gym to get it done right. feeling bad, in the snow…up hill both ways…LOL. Anyway, Wednesday comes and I’ve got some significant nasal drainage and a low grade fever, Thursday felt just awful so I went to my PCP and I’ve got the Flu. Ugh. Well, that explains it. I’m on some meds to help, gonna take the rest of the week off and hopefully feel better next week. the problem is that it always take a week to get back to 100%, so next week will be like slowly ramping things up again. I guess better to have this early in the cycle than right in the middle. so I’ll take next week to get re acclimated to the gym and then the following week will be hopefully full tilt again.
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@Echos good update to start but you still not sharing

can you post the HGH picture? we need to see it please

headaches? are you sick? flu is nothing
but fever is something
you taking NAC? olive leaf? elderberry? vitamin C D? tell us

and i want to see more pics of meals and training info
 
if your shoulder bothers you on a few movements then listen to your body
no need to push the envelope
 
no need to overdose on HGH
I think that's a mistake a lot of guys make
 
sorry about your sickness hopefully you get better soon

you did a good job getting your products from naps
 
really good update buddy keep us updated though going into the weekend
but your Friday update was excellent
 
monstro wants to see more updates out of you
this has the potential to be an Epic log
 
Echos said:
Week 2 update:

So, first let me address a few things from the comments:

the shoulder issue only was bothersome on a few movements, incline press and shoulder press (sometimes). Otherwise it didn’t bother me. Don’t know why it didn’t occur to me to change the movement to a flat bench sooner. I’ve had incline press as my main heavy chest movement for at least a year. Wanted to focus on my upper chest. Need to switch it up more….lesson learned. I’ll give that some time and see where it is in a few months.

The carpel tunnel/HGH; I’m using grey tops from Napsgear. I forget the seller/brand. none of it is labeled. White box, grey top, clear unmarked vials. I’ve heard folks on YouTube talk about running HGH and getting CT after 6-8 IUs and then l hear the post a few years later that they are running 12 IUs no problem. Wonder if there is something else they are doing or it is just a matter of slow increase in tolerance. I’d like to get up to 6IUs at some point.

Okay, here is the bad news: On Sunday I started getting a headache and some muscle soreness. Thought it was just the training etc. Worked out Monday and Tuesday per normal. I live in Middle TN and we’ve had quite a bit of snow this week and it makes the roads unsafe. Most businesses were closed Mon and Tues. My ass was still driving to the gym to get it done right. feeling bad, in the snow…up hill both ways…LOL. Anyway, Wednesday comes and I’ve got some significant nasal drainage and a low grade fever, Thursday felt just awful so I went to my PCP and I’ve got the Flu. Ugh. Well, that explains it. I’m on some meds to help, gonna take the rest of the week off and hopefully feel better next week. the problem is that it always take a week to get back to 100%, so next week will be like slowly ramping things up again. I guess better to have this early in the cycle than right in the middle. so I’ll take next week to get re acclimated to the gym and then the following week will be hopefully full tilt again.
Click to expand...
No need to worry about anything as taking a week off from the gym can make you stronger. I never lose strength taking a week off. In most cases I gain strength.
 
Feeling better today. Mentally I’m so ready to get back to the gym but physically I’m running at maybe 70%. Headaches are gone, no fever. Still some nasal and lung congestion Which I bet will last a bit.
I did my meal prep so I’m ready to go for the week. Haven’t really decided what I should do as far as my cycle goes. only other time I’ve been sick in the past it was at the end of a cycle. the last 3 days I’ve just done TRT dosing. May stay there for another 3-4 days and then pick back up where I left off so next week I can hit the ground running.

folks asked for pics of my gear. The grey top is the HGH. I have several more boxes. Im still running some Geneza Test C 250 from my TRT time. I’ll switch over to Dragon Test C 250 likely in about 2wks when I run out. The NPP 150 and Primo 200 are both dragon and I have plenty more to last this cycle and then some. Enjoy the pics you filthy animals!
 

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Echos said:
Feeling better today. Mentally I’m so ready to get back to the gym but physically I’m running at maybe 70%. Headaches are gone, no fever. Still some nasal and lung congestion Which I bet will last a bit.
I did my meal prep so I’m ready to go for the week. Haven’t really decided what I should do as far as my cycle goes. only other time I’ve been sick in the past it was at the end of a cycle. the last 3 days I’ve just done TRT dosing. May stay there for another 3-4 days and then pick back up where I left off so next week I can hit the ground running.

folks asked for pics of my gear. The grey top is the HGH. I have several more boxes. Im still running some Geneza Test C 250 from my TRT time. I’ll switch over to Dragon Test C 250 likely in about 2wks when I run out. The NPP 150 and Primo 200 are both dragon and I have plenty more to last this cycle and then some. Enjoy the pics you filthy animals!
Click to expand...
@Echos the gear looks hot, I see that geneza pharma and dragon pharma there POWERFUL

and headaches and fever gone nice, you stay strong

the meal prep why dont you share pics of the meals?
and we never saw your pics too face blurred, share?
 
Echos said:
Week 2 update:

So, first let me address a few things from the comments:

the shoulder issue only was bothersome on a few movements, incline press and shoulder press (sometimes). Otherwise it didn’t bother me. Don’t know why it didn’t occur to me to change the movement to a flat bench sooner. I’ve had incline press as my main heavy chest movement for at least a year. Wanted to focus on my upper chest. Need to switch it up more….lesson learned. I’ll give that some time and see where it is in a few months.

The carpel tunnel/HGH; I’m using grey tops from Napsgear. I forget the seller/brand. none of it is labeled. White box, grey top, clear unmarked vials. I’ve heard folks on YouTube talk about running HGH and getting CT after 6-8 IUs and then l hear the post a few years later that they are running 12 IUs no problem. Wonder if there is something else they are doing or it is just a matter of slow increase in tolerance. I’d like to get up to 6IUs at some point.

Okay, here is the bad news: On Sunday I started getting a headache and some muscle soreness. Thought it was just the training etc. Worked out Monday and Tuesday per normal. I live in Middle TN and we’ve had quite a bit of snow this week and it makes the roads unsafe. Most businesses were closed Mon and Tues. My ass was still driving to the gym to get it done right. feeling bad, in the snow…up hill both ways…LOL. Anyway, Wednesday comes and I’ve got some significant nasal drainage and a low grade fever, Thursday felt just awful so I went to my PCP and I’ve got the Flu. Ugh. Well, that explains it. I’m on some meds to help, gonna take the rest of the week off and hopefully feel better next week. the problem is that it always take a week to get back to 100%, so next week will be like slowly ramping things up again. I guess better to have this early in the cycle than right in the middle. so I’ll take next week to get re acclimated to the gym and then the following week will be hopefully full tilt again.
Click to expand...
sucks you are gettin sick bro. That is interesting with the shoulder I have similiar prob. Maybe Ill give flat presses a chance
 
Week 3

hey guys. sorry it’s been so long since an update. I’ve been so busy at work that I just don’t have much time in the evenings to write anything.

So I’m considering this the end of week 3. I’ve been doing solid on following the diet plan, made a few changes. Been solid at the gym, made a few changes.

So at the start of this I was 225, I’m now about 235 and been steady there for a week. In fact, I lost a few pounds over the weekend. Therefore, I’ve increased my protein intake a bit to a goal of 350, increased my carbs up to 450. So that represents about 300 or so additional calories per day. I’ll ride that train for a bit and see how I do. If I stall then I’ll add in some more carbs.

As far as the gym, I felt that I wasn’t getting enough hamstring work, so I dropped an “active rest” day and added in a leg day that I focus more on hams. In order to do this I need to make an adjustment to my normal leg day. I had been doing squats and then hack squats as my main movement. Squats are fatigue costly for me and it is hard for me to recover, so I dropped them. On the additional leg day, I started out doing RDL but those also just trashed my back and I couldn’t recover for my back workout the next day. So I’m doing the following..

hip adductor x4
seated ham curl x4
standing ham curl 4
leg extensions x4
lying ham curl x4
jackson squats x3

I’ve been wanting to find a place to add in Jackson squats and this makes sense for now. It a “new” movement for me and I’m trying to learn how to do them and keep tight. I’ll say at the end of my workout, 10 reps per side burn like a SOB.

All my lifts are going up. Not huge numbers but increase reps, added weight, or just better quality reps overall. I’m really happy with my progress so far and it only the end of week 3….and I’m not at my full intended dose on my cycle yet. If you recall from the OP that I’m ramping up my doses to make sure I’m good on side effects, all my body to adapt to the doses etc.

I’ll try to get another update at the end of this week. I have some photos of my meals that someone asked about. Get those up next time.
 
Echos said:
Week 3

hey guys. sorry it’s been so long since an update. I’ve been so busy at work that I just don’t have much time in the evenings to write anything.

So I’m considering this the end of week 3. I’ve been doing solid on following the diet plan, made a few changes. Been solid at the gym, made a few changes.

So at the start of this I was 225, I’m now about 235 and been steady there for a week. In fact, I lost a few pounds over the weekend. Therefore, I’ve increased my protein intake a bit to a goal of 350, increased my carbs up to 450. So that represents about 300 or so additional calories per day. I’ll ride that train for a bit and see how I do. If I stall then I’ll add in some more carbs.

As far as the gym, I felt that I wasn’t getting enough hamstring work, so I dropped an “active rest” day and added in a leg day that I focus more on hams. In order to do this I need to make an adjustment to my normal leg day. I had been doing squats and then hack squats as my main movement. Squats are fatigue costly for me and it is hard for me to recover, so I dropped them. On the additional leg day, I started out doing RDL but those also just trashed my back and I couldn’t recover for my back workout the next day. So I’m doing the following..

hip adductor x4
seated ham curl x4
standing ham curl 4
leg extensions x4
lying ham curl x4
jackson squats x3

I’ve been wanting to find a place to add in Jackson squats and this makes sense for now. It a “new” movement for me and I’m trying to learn how to do them and keep tight. I’ll say at the end of my workout, 10 reps per side burn like a SOB.

All my lifts are going up. Not huge numbers but increase reps, added weight, or just better quality reps overall. I’m really happy with my progress so far and it only the end of week 3….and I’m not at my full intended dose on my cycle yet. If you recall from the OP that I’m ramping up my doses to make sure I’m good on side effects, all my body to adapt to the doses etc.

I’ll try to get another update at the end of this week. I have some photos of my meals that someone asked about. Get those up next time.
Click to expand...
@Echos welcome back, happy to see you posting and sharing.

Good training day for legs but what weights, can you share some weights?

Jackson squats, you gotta post a pic of tha tfor us.

Please get another update with pictures for us, we are waiting for you. :)
 
that GP gear looks like fire!
thanks for a posting that up let us know how it goes
 
glad to hear you're getting better
the body definitely needs time to recover from a bad sickness
 
nice to see you came back to update us
we missed you and I'm assuming you made a full recovery from your sickness
 
balancing your leg workouts is important
too many people neglect both sides of the leg
 
monstro excited to see what kind of progress you make
also let us know about your dosing from here on out
 
lets get some pics up bro
 
Week 4 update:

Hope everyone is having a good weekend. So, here’s what’s going on with my bulk.
1) last 2wks my weight has stagnated. I jumped from 225 to 235 in first few weeks but last 2 weeks I’ve stayed the same. So this past week I used my carbs by about 300 cal per day. So my new total cal/day is about 3500. Getting about 350g protein per day and 400g of carbs with about 67g fat. Unfortunately my weight has been about the same. Ranging from 231 to 236. So next week I’m gonna increase carbs by another 50g per day or so. I dropped the high carb day as but still doing on very low carb day on Sunday which is my active rest day.

2) Feeling a bit fatigued and sore but still recovering well enough for my next workout. To help with this I dropped RDLs and back squat. I just found they are so systemically tasking that it hindered by recovery. I may have mentioned that in the last update. I added in another set of hack squats on that day and Jackson squats. Look up Kai Green Jackson squat and you can see what they are. I do them at the very end of my workout. It looks like creepy/erotic so be careful if you do them around others. you’ll get the side eye for sure! LOL.

3) My carpel tunnel is acting up on me a bit making it hard to sleep at night. So I stopped the GH a few days ago to give myself a break. may try doing the 5-2 split that some have advocated just to give me some time to clear out any fluid retention. I really didn’t notice any improvement when I dropped from 3 IUs back down to 2 IU. Only did 3 for like 4-5 days. Anyway, I need to find a way to manage that better. I really want to keep at least 2IUs in on this cycle but I need sleep more.

4) I finally reached my peek off-season PED dose. If you recall I wanted to taper up over 4 weeks. So I’m at 600 Test, 400 NPP, 400 Primo (2-3IUs of HGH if I can stand it). For the most part been feeling good. may need to take a deload week soon but I want to keep pressing as long as I have the gas to do it. maybe I should just back off before I get to that point but I really do love training and training hard. So there’s that.

I tried to upload a video of doing some rows. maybe it’ll work. Also, people asked for pics of my meals. So there is oatmeal, blueberries and yogurt as prework out meal. Then turkey sausage and eggs along with a bagel for post workout. The other meals are chicken and rice and various fruit. Nothing exciting.
 

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Echos said:
Week 4 update:

Hope everyone is having a good weekend. So, here’s what’s going on with my bulk.
1) last 2wks my weight has stagnated. I jumped from 225 to 235 in first few weeks but last 2 weeks I’ve stayed the same. So this past week I used my carbs by about 300 cal per day. So my new total cal/day is about 3500. Getting about 350g protein per day and 400g of carbs with about 67g fat. Unfortunately my weight has been about the same. Ranging from 231 to 236. So next week I’m gonna increase carbs by another 50g per day or so. I dropped the high carb day as but still doing on very low carb day on Sunday which is my active rest day.

2) Feeling a bit fatigued and sore but still recovering well enough for my next workout. To help with this I dropped RDLs and back squat. I just found they are so systemically tasking that it hindered by recovery. I may have mentioned that in the last update. I added in another set of hack squats on that day and Jackson squats. Look up Kai Green Jackson squat and you can see what they are. I do them at the very end of my workout. It looks like creepy/erotic so be careful if you do them around others. you’ll get the side eye for sure! LOL.

3) My carpel tunnel is acting up on me a bit making it hard to sleep at night. So I stopped the GH a few days ago to give myself a break. may try doing the 5-2 split that some have advocated just to give me some time to clear out any fluid retention. I really didn’t notice any improvement when I dropped from 3 IUs back down to 2 IU. Only did 3 for like 4-5 days. Anyway, I need to find a way to manage that better. I really want to keep at least 2IUs in on this cycle but I need sleep more.

4) I finally reached my peek off-season PED dose. If you recall I wanted to taper up over 4 weeks. So I’m at 600 Test, 400 NPP, 400 Primo (2-3IUs of HGH if I can stand it). For the most part been feeling good. may need to take a deload week soon but I want to keep pressing as long as I have the gas to do it. maybe I should just back off before I get to that point but I really do love training and training hard. So there’s that.

I tried to upload a video of doing some rows. maybe it’ll work. Also, people asked for pics of my meals. So there is oatmeal, blueberries and yogurt as prework out meal. Then turkey sausage and eggs along with a bagel for post workout. The other meals are chicken and rice and various fruit. Nothing exciting.
View attachment 23209
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@Echos I was following your log for a while, and still subbed to it.

1) 350 grams of protein what kind of food you eating? seems something lacking

2) have you checked your iron levels? been a few guys with low iron last few weeks

3) you should try to drop to 1 IU if you have issues with sides like carpel tunnel, takes time with hgh

4) you will deload? how many more weeks on this cycle.

video looks great, you're lifting on point but on the TOP squeeze the back more for a few secs
 
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